Huawei Passes Apple For Second Place In Smartphone Shipments (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from VentureBeat: For the first time in seven years, Samsung and Apple have not taken the top two positions in the worldwide smartphone market. All hail Huawei. Although Samsung held onto first place -- the South Korean giant typically dominates the first three quarters of the year, with the American company winning the fourth quarter -- Huawei passed Apple for second place this part quarter. The Q2 2018 figures come from IDC (though Canalys and Strategy Analytics both agree that Huawei passed Apple in the quarter).

Comments

Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not surprising: the iPhone X has been a disaster. Quick informal poll: anyone ever see anyone with one in the wild? Past the first couple of weeks before they all got returned? (You can tell an iPhone X user because he's the one who has to very carefully look at his phone in order to get it to unlock.)

The interface is a disaster (turns out, removing the home button and replacing it with the scroll gesture is a really bad idea), Face ID manages to thread the needle of being too loose and too strict at the same time: any face that looks vaguely like yours CAN unlock it while there's a good chance your face WON'T unlock it on any given attempt. (Not to mention hackers figured out how to print a mask that bypasses it within two weeks.)

And then, you have the cost.

Is it any wonder sales are down? The iPhone X is a disaster any way you slice it.

Re:Not surprising

[Anubis IV]

It's not surprising: the iPhone X has been a disaster. Quick informal poll: anyone ever see anyone with one in the wild?

Actually, if you look at the table in the article, it looks like Huawei’s success is coming at Samsung’s and less popular Android manufacturer’s loss. Apple grew their market share and their total units sold this last year, while Samsung sold about 8 million fewer units and lost a significant amount of share.

Plus, Apple’s average selling price is way up from a year ago (as reported in their earnings call yesterday), suggesting the iPhone X is selling quite well. Which makes sense, since it was separately reported that it was the best selling smartphone in the US for the two quarters after it launched (and yes, I’ve seen a number of them in the wild). As for the phone that outsold it this last quarter? It was the iPhone 8.

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

The X is only the icing on the shit sundae. The problem runs far deeper, and if Cook doesn't get his head out of his ass (or the proverbial stick) this is not going to end well for Apple.

Jobs had it right. He created a well designed phone with a very comfortable interface that was easy to use for computer illiterates, packaged it in a perfectly fashionable form and hyped the style just enough to make the item fashionable, likable and wanted with young trend leaders. This move was awesome.

Apple still lives off this air of being fashionable, modern and usable created back then. Even though it no longer is the case for their later products. The road Cook took the company (and hence the design of the phone) down was a weird combination of the creed that removal of non-essentials should be enforced until only the "pure" function remains, while at the same time introducing flashy gimmicks nobody asked for and nobody knew how to use sensibly in the name of being progressive and innovative.

And that's the wrong approach, if you ask me.

Jobs knew that in the end, these things have to be used. He wanted to create well designed and good looking gadgets that would be useful to people so they feel good about using them and want to use them more, with the intent to convince them that this means they will have to buy the next generation, too. Cook forgot that people who can't use your gadgets won't buy the next one, no matter how good they're looking. That only works for gadgets people don't buy to actually use, like Gucci handbags. Nobody expects such an accessory to actually serve a purpose, like being able to store anything inside.

That's not the case for phones. People at least want to make phone calls with them.

Re:Not surprising

[phantomfive]

That's not the case for phones. People at least want to make phone calls with them.

tbh a lot of people wouldn't miss it if their phone stopped making calls.

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

I have made that joke before, too, but yes, I'm confident they would. Some would probably notice the lack of connectivity first due to some other app (yes, making calls is just yet another app on most phones these days, go figure...) not getting a connection to some server, but one of the key features people use their phone for is still making calls.

Re:Not surprising

[sodul]

Case in point I'm visiting family in Europe with a T-Mobile plan from the US. I get unlimited 3G speeds all over Europe for free with the plan, but I would have to pay 25 cents per minute for calls. We use FaceTime for all our calls even when in the countryside which seems to have pretty decent coverage.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at a company of 70 people, at least two of them got an X.

In fact around me the iPhone 8 is extremely rare, I hardly see one.

Re:Not surprising

[Oswald McWeany]

The X is only the icing on the shit sundae. The problem runs far deeper, and if Cook doesn't get his head out of his ass (or the proverbial stick) this is not going to end well for Apple.

Apple has more money than they can spend. Apple could put out crap for a decade and still be a fully functioning major player in world technology. Apple's finances are so strong, Cook probably couldn't sink Apple even if he deliberately set out to do just that.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not surprising: the iPhone X has been a disaster. Quick informal poll: anyone ever see anyone with one in the wild? Past the first couple of weeks before they all got returned? (You can tell an iPhone X user because he's the one who has to very carefully look at his phone in order to get it to unlock.)

The interface is a disaster (turns out, removing the home button and replacing it with the scroll gesture is a really bad idea), Face ID manages to thread the needle of being too loose and too strict at the same time: any face that looks vaguely like yours CAN unlock it while there's a good chance your face WON'T unlock it on any given attempt. (Not to mention hackers figured out how to print a mask that bypasses it within two weeks.)

And then, you have the cost.

Is it any wonder sales are down? The iPhone X is a disaster any way you slice it.

The iPhone X was such a disaster that they were able to increase their phone margins and overall net income enough to lift their EPS and share price >3%. An unmitigated disaster that brought them closer to being the first trillion-dollar company in history. It's insane - they should just pull the phone entirely.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that is because the iPhone6S&7 was good enough, so people are delaying slightly longer to getting a new phone. The only people with an 8 I know dropped/cracked their 6 haha.

But weâ(TM)ve know this for a while, and we saw it in desktops, then laptops. As phones got good enough, people would replace them less quickly.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not surprising: the iPhone X has been a disaster. Quick informal poll: anyone ever see anyone with one in the wild?

I know lots of people with an "X", including myself.

(You can tell an iPhone X user because he's the one who has to very carefully look at his phone in order to get it to unlock.)

Not had this issue. FaceID works perfectly for me, just as fast as anything else.

The interface is a disaster (turns out, removing the home button and replacing it with the scroll gesture is a really bad idea)

Lost me here. The interface on the X is so much better than earlier iPhones. When I use my wife's iPhone 7 it feels so archaic in how it works. The gesture-based navigation, once you learn it, is far superior IMHO.

(Not to mention hackers figured out how to print a mask that bypasses it within two weeks.)

Now I know you're full of shit, because that doesn't work.

The iPhone X is a disaster any way you slice it.

I'm sure Apple would disagree with you, given that their ASP is higher than expected. They've got to be shifting more than a few X's to do that.

Re:Not surprising

[Jaegs]

It's not surprising: the iPhone X has been a disaster.

Um, about that:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...

The company's chief financial officer Luca Maestri said customers were buying costlier models, and the $US999 iPhone X was the best seller.

Apple posted third-quarter revenue of $US53.3 billion and profits of $US2.34 per share, and forecast its revenue would be between $US60 billion and $US62 billion in the fourth quarter.

So. while Huawei is selling more phones, Apple is selling more expensive phones and making more profit in the process.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

The people at Apple are not stupid. They may be arrogant but god knows they're not stupid. They have their eye on what makes their investors happy, not what makes their customers happy.

Try this, as a thought experiment. Take whatever rumors that you might have heard and assume, just for the moment, that Apple deliberately leaked that rumor through their stockholders meetings. Then try to predict what Apple will come out with as their next big thing.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

The iphone X has been a massive success. Idiot commentators on slashdot and other tech blogs say it failed because they don't like it for some reason... not because it doesn't sell.. Same thing with the orgional iphone, imac, ipod, etc... All sold very well, but you can look back and read slashdot comments on how they "failed"

Its the same way that flat earthers, anti vaxers, and climate change deniers think. "If I don't like the facts, they must be wrong"

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Cook sexually assaulted him so he's butt hurt with Apple.... seriously getting that worked up over a phone you dislike isn't normal.... get some counciling...

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Apple’s average selling price is way up from a year ago

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Nice summary of the Apple story. But you need to recognize Apple's dilemma: they painted themselves into a corner. Having reached market saturation and further numerical growth cut off by the Android hordes, Apple's now has to grow the price and the amount of aftermarket money it can squeeze out of each of its misty eye followers. Either that or invent something entirely new that everybody wants, but that isn't going to happen under the Tim Cook culture.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Cook probably couldn't sink Apple even if he deliberately set out to do just that.

Watch what happens to Cook if the stock trends down.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

The iPhone X was such a disaster that they were able to increase their phone margins and overall net income enough to lift their EPS and share price >3%. An unmitigated disaster that brought them closer to being the first trillion-dollar company in history.

Outsold by Huawei now. Nothing could possibly go wrong, right?

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

I have always bought flagship phones in the past, but this cycle I bought a mid tier Motorola and it's awesome. It's plenty big, thin, lightweight, beautiful screen and camera, responsive, plenty of memory, not loaded with crapware, looks great. Exactly why do I need or want a flagship then?

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

The X is only the icing on the shit sundae. The problem runs far deeper, and if Cook doesn't get his head out of his ass (or the proverbial stick) this is not going to end well for Apple.

How does one get their head INTO a proverbial stick?

Idiot.

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Cook probably couldn't sink Apple even if he deliberately set out to do just that.

Watch what happens to Cook if the stock trends down.

They did that one time when Apple simply missed their Earnings Estimate. Cook's pay was reduced that year by about 2 MEELION dollars!

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Nice summary of the Apple story. But you need to recognize Apple's dilemma: they painted themselves into a corner. Having reached market saturation and further numerical growth cut off by the Android hordes, Apple's now has to grow the price and the amount of aftermarket money it can squeeze out of each of its misty eye followers. Either that or invent something entirely new that everybody wants, but that isn't going to happen under the Tim Cook culture.

Apple hasn't achieved market saturation until Windows is at 10% and macOS at 90%, and not until Android is at 7% and iOS is at 95%.

They've got a LOT of growing left to do, even WITHOUT "The Next Big Thing".

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

The iPhone X was such a disaster that they were able to increase their phone margins and overall net income enough to lift their EPS and share price >3%. An unmitigated disaster that brought them closer to being the first trillion-dollar company in history.

Outsold by Huawei now. Nothing could possibly go wrong, right?

Samsung is the one that should be worried; not Apple.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been posting Apple doom stuff since at least 2012. How has that worked out?

Re:Not surprising

[Anubis IV]

Apple’s average selling price is way up from a year ago

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Not much, actually, at least with the way that Apple is doing it.

There are lots of different ways to push average selling price (ASP) up. One way to inflate ASP is to simply raise the price points for your products. Raising ASP that way does come with a number of downsides, chief among them being the possibility of alienating price-conscious consumers who are unwilling to pay more. But that isn't what Apple did here.

Instead, what Apple did was introduce a new, higher-tier product that expanded their product line's upper end while leaving their existing price points intact for customers who had no interest in paying more. By doing it that way, they provided willing customers with the opportunity to pay Apple more money, while leaving the option open for price-conscious customers to remain at the price point that they are comfortable paying.

The quarters that followed were effectively an experiment to see whether or not there would be a significant number of willing customers, and by all indications, there have been. With ASP being way up on a YoY basis while unit sales have grown slightly, there is quite clearly a willingness among a large number of their customers to pay more than they were before. Apple recognized that willingness and cashed in on it by offering something that allowed those willing consumers to pay more, which, so far as I can see, is a perfectly valid, sustainable strategy with no significant downsides.

If later this year they introduce the iPhone X's successor at the X's current pricing while not offering a successor to the iPhone 8 line, then we'd be talking about a situation that could go wrong for them, since they'd be driving away a number of their existing customers at that point, but that's all speculation about future choices, rather than anything based in fact.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

so you work in an apple store?

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Apple hasn't achieved market saturation until Windows is at 10% and macOS at 90%, and not until Android is at 7% and iOS is at 95%.

You live on a different planet than the rest of us. On the planet we live on, Apple's smartphone market share peaked in 2009 at 48% and has declined steadily ever since, to less than 17% today. There is no reason to suppose that that trend will stop. Maybe it will eventually stabilize around 5% like the MacOS share of the PC market.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

You've been posting Apple doom stuff since at least 2012.

Nice to hear from a fan!

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Im glad he is there. Someone competent might actually be making good products for apple.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Since you are having trouble understanding what could go wrong by trying to get more money out of each customer, let me spell it out for you: Apple did not add any differentialtion to its product, but raised the price anyway. How elastic is that price, really? Bad luck for Apple if the answer turns out to be "not very". Using myself as a data point, I dropped $400 on a new phone this cycle. If I had followed my normal practice of picking up a flagship phone it would have been $1000. But the phone I got is way better than the one it replaced and I just don't perceive any important difference between this and a flagship. I mean, what's the point? Even as a fashion accessory, a nice phone stopped being a status symbol some time ago and is just something everybody has. In fact there a kind of anti-status thing going on. Flashing the Apple logo around marks you as vain, status conscious, fiscally irresponsible, etc. It's a real thing.

Well. Apple will need to sell next year's model for $1200 to match this year's revenue increase, factoring in another 1% or so of market share decline. Think that will fly? I don't.

Re:Not surprising

[johanw]

Actually, "normal" calls is a thing I mostly do professinally. Privately I use WhatsApp, Signal or Viber for making calls. Part of the professional communication is also done with Skype.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

6 years of wrong... that is an impressive level of willful self-delusion!

Re:Not surprising

[johanw]

I don't know which European country you were in but most EU countries have country wide coverage, including the most rural areas. A provider with the coverage I hear about in the US would go bancrupt because no customer would accept that.

Re:Not surprising

[johanw]

In that case the ecosystem might start to fall apart if app developers run away. I worked for a company that did both Android and iOS development and the stupid Apple rules were a real headache.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple will need to sell next year's model for $1200 to match this year's revenue increase

Exactly, and for some reason pro Apple armchair market experts don't take that in account. That YoY revenue increase won't happen again unless Apple launch something that sits above the current premium level. And supposing Apple actually have the nerve to do it even then it's not a sustainable strategy, since you can't increase ASP indefinitely.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

You knew what he meant faggot, but since you like sticking sticks up your ass like your idol Tim Cook, you tried to swing it wrong.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Hmm, did I predict that Apple's share of the smartphone market would shrink, from as far out as six years ago? That makes me smart.

Now I'm predicting that Apple's share will shrink further. I will add the further prediction that Apple's issue with price resistance will become more serious, and cause a revenue decline by next year, in addition to losing more market share. Apple will probably increase it's app revenue, maybe even by enough to offset the revenue decline in handsets, but I wouldn't bet on that. Apple might manage to make gains in cloud services but that's a crap shoot too. From an investor's perspective Apple is looking decidely dodgy as of today.

There you go, save that one and confront me with it next year if I'm wrong. I'm not wrong.

Re:Not surprising

[OrangeTide]

Apple did not add any differentialtion to its product

Is the product only the hardware. Or is it the services and ecosystem surrounding it? This is why it is difficult to compare a walled garden like Apple to any other OEM.

What is the value to the average Apple user to continuing to have access to purchased app, music, chat contacts, etc?

DISCLAIMER: the lack of freedom I perceived as an Apple user led me away from them. But others still embrace them and I think the brand still draws a significant following.

Re:Not surprising

[OrangeTide]

Recent report is that Apple's service revenue go soar to $50B. The market is bullish on Apple's prospects on their service side. They don't need to sell devices alone to make up their revenue. Apple's business has always been a mix of hardware, software, and services.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple hasn't achieved market saturation until Windows is at 10% and macOS at 90%, and not until Android is at 7% and iOS is at 95%.

They've got a LOT of growing left to do, even WITHOUT "The Next Big Thing".

Well, to achieve anything near those numbers Apple would need to start selling affordably priced products. That definitely would be "The Next Big Thing" (for Apple itself at least) given their current marketing strategies.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, did I predict that Apple's share of the smartphone market would shrink, from as far out as six years ago? That makes me smart.

Apples market share increased you fucking stupid dumbass.

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Apple hasn't achieved market saturation until Windows is at 10% and macOS at 90%, and not until Android is at 7% and iOS is at 95%.

You live on a different planet than the rest of us. On the planet we live on, Apple's smartphone market share peaked in 2009 at 48% and has declined steadily ever since, to less than 17% today. There is no reason to suppose that that trend will stop. Maybe it will eventually stabilize around 5% like the MacOS share of the PC market.

Hardly fair.

In 2009, there really wasn't any real competition for the iPhone.

And Mac share of the "Desktop" market is over 10%, twice what you claim.

But neither of those matter to the "point of saturation" figures I was stating.

Re:Not surprising

[sodul]

French side of the French/Belgian border, there's a village just about every other mile. To be fair I would not expect this coverage anytime soon in Montana, but California could do much better. Please stay away from national parks, one of the reasons I love these places is because it is impossible for me to check on work and as such I can truly disconnect.

Re:Not surprising

[gnasher719]

You live on a different planet than the rest of us. [businessinsider.com] On the planet we live on, Apple's smartphone market share peaked in 2009 at 48% and has declined steadily ever since, to less than 17% today.

That's what happens when you look at numbers without turning your brain on.

You can divide the phone market into "smartphones" and "feature phones". You can also divide the phone market into "expensive phones" and "cheap phones". In 2009, "smartphones" and "expensive phones" was mostly the same market; Apple had 48% in either market. In 2018, feature phones are mostly gone. We now have lots and lots of cheap smartphones, and a few expensive ones. With all the cheap phones moving from the "feature phone" to "smartphone" market, of course Apple is losing share. But if you look at "expensive phones", Apple has a _huge_ part of that, probably 60%.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Apples market share increased you fucking stupid dumbass.

Wow, you sound just like an Apple asshole. But the dumbass is you. In 2009 Apple's share of the smartphone market was 48%, today it is 17%. Thanks for playing.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Hardly fair. In 2009, there really wasn't any real competition for the iPhone.

It's more than fair. iPhone's market slide looks way worse when compared to Android alone, instead of including RIM.

Android certainly had to compete, but it didn't just compete, it slaughtered. Why? Three big factors: more value for money; Google brand was more more trusted than Apple; Google's services such as maps and email were better than Apple's. All three remain in effect today,

And Mac share of the "Desktop" market is over 10%, twice what you claim.

I doubt it. Mac, 5.03%

Try to post without the insults, ok, to avoid being called out as the clown you come across as by not being able to support your argument after heaving out a lame ad hominem.

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

if you look at "expensive phones", Apple has a _huge_ part of that, probably 60%

I'm not sure exactly what the share is in that sector, but it's not as high as that. Samsung's and Google's phones are expensive too, and so are all the other flagships. But that is nothing to crow about, rather it's a vulnerability. The days of phone as status symbol are slipping into history, and Apple's innovation stream dried up, weakening the brand. I'm having trouble seeing how Apple positions itself as a luxury brand going forward.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey retard. Apples market share when yup not down.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Hey retard.[sic] Apples market share when[sic] yup[sic] not down.

I left your gratuitous insult in, it's a fitting testament to the Apple mentality. In 2009 Apple's share of the smartphone market was 48%, today it is 17%. Six years from now, what? 5% similar to the MacOS share of the PC market?

Re:Not surprising

[painandgreed]

That's not the case for phones. People at least want to make phone calls with them.

tbh a lot of people wouldn't miss it if their phone stopped making calls.

If I couldn't get phone calls, how would I ever talk to my parents? Honestly, I checked and the only people I've had to use my phone to talk to in the last year were my parents and then one call each from my girlfriend and my neighbor. That excludes texting which gets used a lot, but my parents can't learn to do that. Past that, there are only robocalls. Endless robocalls. So many that our state government has simply told people not to answer the phone if they don't recognise the number.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey dumbass retard. Apples market share when up not down this quarter. But go on keep being a retard.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Apple's market share in the smarphones increased this quarter, the technical term is retrace. Over a ten year period, Apple's smarphone market share declined from 48% to 17%. There is nothing to indicate that the trend will stop. Apple's share of the tablet market continued to shrink while it's share of the PC market stayed flat. Apple's stock price increased modestly on the mixed news. On balance, Apple's anemic growth makes its P/E of 19.5 unsustainable. Should that growth turn flat or negative the bloodbath will be deep and slippery.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wait a year, when you've got such an impressive legacy already in the bag?

From Jul 2012: "To be honest, Apple is more than fairly valued... assuming high margins hold up and revenue continues to increase at least 10% per year. Problem is, both those assumptions are looking doubtful from where we stand today.

Good one.

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Hardly fair. In 2009, there really wasn't any real competition for the iPhone.

It's more than fair. iPhone's market slide looks way worse when compared to Android alone, instead of including RIM.

Android certainly had to compete, but it didn't just compete, it slaughtered. Why? Three big factors: more value for money; Google brand was more more trusted than Apple; Google's services such as maps and email were better than Apple's. All three remain in effect today,

And Mac share of the "Desktop" market is over 10%, twice what you claim.

I doubt it. Mac, 5.03%

Try to post without the insults, ok, to avoid being called out as the clown you come across as by not being able to support your argument after heaving out a lame ad hominem.

Android only "wins" because of the plethora of cheap-shit low-end "giveaway" phones. If you restrict your view to the "Flagship" models, the numbers look QUITE different. And speaking of "Quite Different", I don't know where you got the 12% marketshare number for iPhones; but this source quotes it earlier this year at a whopping 51%:

https://www.investopedia.com/n...

Re:Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Android only "wins" because of the plethora of cheap-shit low-end "giveaway" phones.

Android wins for multiple reasons. One of them is, if you want you can get a really cheap one and it's entirely usable, even running most games etc.

If you restrict your view to the "Flagship" models, the numbers look QUITE different.

Not really. Android beats Apple at the high end too.

And speaking of "Quite Different", I don't know where you got the 12% marketshare number for iPhones

You pulled that out of your ass. I said 17%.

but this source quotes it earlier this year at a whopping 51%

Your source is shit.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

From Jul 2012: "To be honest, Apple is more than fairly valued... assuming high margins hold up and revenue continues to increase at least 10% per year. Problem is, both those assumptions are looking doubtful from where we stand today.

Good one.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

From Jul 2012: "To be honest, Apple is more than fairly valued... assuming high margins hold up and revenue continues to increase at least 10% per year. Problem is, both those assumptions are looking doubtful from where we stand today.

Good one.

Thanks for pointing that one out. (BTW, I don't go back digging through my old posts, you must be really triggered.) Look at APPL from Aug/12 to Jun/13... straight down from $95 to $65. You would have made a mint by acting on my opinion. AAPL didn't get back to where it was until 2014.

You couldn't have done a better job of establishing my power of clairvoyance if you had tried. Now I am not predicting that AAPL is headed straight down, but that the downside risk is significant. Honestly, don't put your retirement funds there. But if you think I'm full of shit, then go ahead and load up. Couldn't happen to a nicer person.

Re:Not surprising

[Anubis IV]

Since you are having trouble understanding what could go wrong by trying to get more money out of each customer

Sorry, I wasn't aware we switched topics. I thought we were talking about whether or not their ASP rising over the last year is a problem for Apple. Let me check...

Apple’s average selling price is way up from a year ago

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Not much, actually, at least with the way that Apple is doing it.

Yup...that's definitely what we were talking about.

Apple did not add any differentialtion to its product, but raised the price anyway. How elastic is that price, really? Bad luck for Apple if the answer turns out to be "not very".

As I already pointed out, these last few quarters already answered that question. Regardless of whether you saw any differentiation, it looks like somewhere in the ballpark of a third their customers* saw something different about the iPhone X and had enough elasticity in their wallets to opt for it. The fact that you don't see a difference or think it justifies the higher price doesn't mean that others think and feel the same as you.

Using myself as a data point

An anecdote does not a trend make. That Apple doesn't make things you're interested in doesn't mean they don't make things that others are interested in. You want better bang for your buck and to see your dollars go towards obvious benefits. That's commendable, good thinking and a perfectly reasonable approach to making purchases. Others have different priorities and are more willing to spend more on smaller gains or smaller perceived benefits. To each their own.

Well. Apple will need to sell next year's model for $1200 to match this year's revenue increase

No, they don't. You've missed the forest for the trees if you think they need to increase prices like that. They need to grow their profits, sure, but there are plenty of ways to do so besides significant price hikes (e.g. reduce costs, increase monetization on already-sold units, increase units sold, etc.). Apple does a solid job at reducing their manufacturing costs each year (particularly after they come out with something that has high-cost components, such as the FaceID system in the X), and though I don't expect their sales numbers to shift dramatically, their Services division has been their fastest growing revenue stream for the last few years, so I'd expect to see them increase it even more in the coming years, thus providing them with continued profit growth without the need for any of the price hikes you're suggesting.

factoring in another 1% or so of market share decline

I'm not sure why you think this would matter. Provided their unit sales maintain their current levels (or slightly increase, as they have been for the last several years), Apple's market share could continue to slide without impacting their ability to maintain their current profitability or grow it in the ways I mentioned above.

* They don't provide breakdowns by model, but their iPhone ASP for this quarter was up $122 YoY. Given the price gap of $300 between similarly configured 8 and X models, a $122 gain in ASP taken at face value would suggest about 40% of their customers are opting for the X. I'll be a bit more conservative than that and look towards their 4Q rolling average ASP since this last quarter was particularly good for them. Looking at the 4Q average, it's only gone up $70 YoY. That said, the iPhone X has only been out for three quarters, so the 4Q average still has another quarter to go before it'll fully account for the X's impact. If current trends continue, we'd expect the 4Q ASP to stabilize around a gain of $93 YoY, suggesting that just less than a third of their customers are opting for the X. Either way, it's a lot of people.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey retard. Apples market share when up not down dumbass.

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

"You would have made a mint by acting on my opinion." ...or made a much larger mint by holding through a small dip and collecting the dividends.

Did you miss out? That why you so mad, bro?

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

That wasn't a small dip, that was a full year, full fledged nosedive, and another full year to retrace. I called it perfectly, thanks for pointing that out. Now I'm saying that AAPL has significant downside risk. You go load up on AAPL, ok? You're just the bagholder to do it. Anybody else, make your own mind up about who speaks the truth and who is a clueless snivelling Apple astroturfer.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Apple's smartphone market share declined from 48% to 17% from 2009 until now. Apple's current anemic growth makes its P/E of 19.5 unsustainable. Therefore you would need to be nuts to buy AAPL now, hoping it will grow. But let's not kid ourselves, AC who keeps reposting the same idiotic one liner doesn't own any stock of anything, let alone AAPL. Let's be clear: if you're playing with your retirement income, then don't touch AAPL with a ten foot pole. You heard it here. (Or more realistically, nobody actually heard this except the one pasty skinned AAPL troglodyte who gets totally triggered by truth about AAPL but isn't quite sure what to do about it.)

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, can I have some of those cherries you're picking? Powerful stuff.

Sep 11, 2013
"Ouch! Conservative prediction: general trend for Apple is down, for market share, for sales and for stock price. Go ahead and think of it as a retrace after a runup if it makes you feel better."

Well done.

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

Link please. Today I'm saying that AAPL has significant downside risk that makes it an inappropriate investment for anybody who can't afford to lose their retirement savings. And I'm saying that you do not own a single share of any stock and do not even know what a limit order is. And that you have pimples and are stupid. And also ugly with too much body hair and smell bad. How'm I doing?

Re: Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool. Maybe this time youâ(TM)ll be right!

Being wrong seems to be taking its toll... such angry personal attacks!

Re: Not surprising

[Tough Love]

No link? And anger, your flatter yourself, you're not worth it.

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

Ok, maybe I'm old. But I actually use my phone mostly for making phone calls. Not that I like talking to people that much, but... well, I'm old, most of the people I communicate with are as well, and they like talking to people.

Without having to install additional apps.

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

Hey, I tuned it down already. Originally it was "and if Cook doesn't get his head out of his ass (or what- or whoever's in there right now)", but I didn't want to come across as homophobic.

Re:Not surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple’s average selling price is way up from a year ago

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Well, what went wrong with you? And why didn't your parents prevent it?

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

Since you are having trouble understanding what could go wrong

Honey, you have a terrible track record predicting what could go wrong but of course didn't. Do you really want to go there? Because that could go wrong, And with you the chances of it happening are so fucking sky high as you are.

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

The X is only the icing on the shit sundae.

So the iPhone X is on you.

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

Cook probably couldn't sink Apple even if he deliberately set out to do just that.

Watch what happens to Cook if the stock trends down.

You failed to make an compelling argument why it would. But nothing happened the last couple of times the stock trended down. Not the least because it went back up pretty fast.

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

Nice summary of the Apple story. But you need to recognize Apple's dilemma: they painted themselves into a corner. Having reached market saturation and further numerical growth cut off by the Android hordes, Apple's now has to grow the price and the amount of aftermarket money it can squeeze out of each of its misty eye followers. Either that or invent something entirely new that everybody wants, but that isn't going to happen under the Tim Cook culture.

Hey moron, did you miss the news? The whole smartphone market is saturated and actually shrinking, and Apple still sold more phones, Apple's corner is getting bigger, and it has the color of massive gold. Why do you expect (but actually fear) eternal growth from Apple but from nobody else? And why do you then ignore all the products from Apple that are growing?

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple hasn't achieved market saturation until Windows is at 10% and macOS at 90%, and not until Android is at 7% and iOS is at 95%.

You live on a different planet than the rest of us. On the planet we live on, Apple's smartphone market share peaked in 2009 at 48% and has declined steadily ever since, to less than 17% today. There is no reason to suppose that that trend will stop. Maybe it will eventually stabilize around 5% like the MacOS share of the PC market.

Well, how would we notice if the trend gasn't stopped already when that chart ends 4 years ago? All we know that the quarter we are currently talking about, Apple's marketshare grew. And the only one they could have taking it from is Android. Why don`t you predict doom for Android?

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

And Mac share of the "Desktop" market is over 10%, twice what you claim.

I doubt it. Mac, 5.03%

Try to post without the insults, ok, to avoid being called out as the clown you come across as by not being able to support your argument after heaving out a lame ad hominem.

That article is 10 years old. Please continue post shit like this to prove you more than deserve all the insults we could ever throw at you.

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Hey, I tuned it down already. Originally it was "and if Cook doesn't get his head out of his ass (or what- or whoever's in there right now)", but I didn't want to come across as homophobic.

Well, you may have "TUNED" it down (whatever THAT means!); but you CERTAINLY didn't "TONE" down the homophobic rhetoric.

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

if you look at "expensive phones", Apple has a _huge_ part of that, probably 60%

I'm not sure exactly what the share is in that sector, but it's not as high as that. Samsung's and Google's phones are expensive too

Yeah, but they don't sell as well. Probably because they are just as expensive. Heck, Google`s phone sales were always tiny, and probably even intended to be low. Anyway, here's some "old" news from Q4 2017 that doesn't actually prove you wrong - it's just better than anything you've provided thus far: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2018/04/18/8-of-the-top-10-most-profitable-smartphones-on-the-planet-are-made-by-apple/#69a94a4adb18

Re:Not surprising

[Plumpaquatsch]

The iPhone X was such a disaster that they were able to increase their phone margins and overall net income enough to lift their EPS and share price >3%. An unmitigated disaster that brought them closer to being the first trillion-dollar company in history.

Outsold by Huawei now. Nothing could possibly go wrong, right?

Also outsold by Huawai last year. What did go wrong after that? https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/6/16259810/huawei-apple-global-smartphone-sales
Remember back when Samsung first outsold Apple, how you were cheering and predicting Apple's doom? What did go wrong after that?

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

Sorry, English is only my third language. Peut-être nous pouvons continuer en Francais? Oder wäre Dir Deutsch lieber?

So I used a word wrong. Could we get back to the discussion?

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

Sorry, English is only my third language. Peut-être nous pouvons continuer en Francais? Oder wäre Dir Deutsch lieber?

So I used a word wrong. Could we get back to the discussion?

Ok, consider me duly chastised and embarrassed! I REALLY am sorry I was "mean" about your word-usage!

And yes, your English is a LOT better than my French and German!!! (Of which I know essentially zero...) ;-)

So, no, I would not like to continue in French nor German (but I didn't have to go to Google translate to figure those out at least!)

Now where were we?

So, I am not sure why you think that later-generation iPhones ("Cook Phones", if you will), fail in the "Functionality" department. If you are referring to the removal of the headphone jack, there are pluses and minuses to that; but in their defense, Apple DID provide TWO in-the-box solutions for everything but the (really rare and overblown) "need" to be able to charge through the Lightning jack while simultaneously listening to music (because, Goddess forbid, you take a half-hour break from your music to charge your phone up 50%!).

And if you are talking about software "toys" like Animojis or Memojies, that probably just started off in the Lab as a cute internal test of the Face-Tracking capabilities of FaceID, and someone saw it and said "Yeah, keep it in!" I seriously don't think it is anything more considered than that. Craig Federighi's attitude during the demo of the original Animoji demo and the recent Memoji demo shows that Apple doesn't really take the "feature" seriously, either...

Other than that, the iPhone and iPad (and Macs), and their respective OSes, just keep getting faster and more feature-filled. And that's EXACTLY what SHOULD be happening.

So, in short: I really don't get what you mean; and it doesn't help that you really didn't cite any concrete examples of your allegations.

Re:Not surprising

[Opportunist]

My job is in security. And among other things, we do test and break security features of mobile phones. Unfortunately that meant that in the more recent past, I could not recommend using iPhones anymore. Which kinda sucks, because I really liked them. Cook insists in using technology that just isn't there yet, all for the sake of looking cutting edge and offering some flashy gimmicks that can be used in ads as a "look, shiny!" distraction.

Same thing with the emojis and animojis and whatnot. Yes, they're nice and sure, they were created as a side project somewhere, why not ship them? What I didn't get was how they were touted as the next best thing since sliced bread and a must-have feature, one that supposedly sells the phone. That was the bit I didn't get about them. Yes, they sure don't hurt, but ... THAT is the selling point? It kinda makes you think that they're grasping at straws when they have to use that for their sales pitch.

The removal of various jacks strikes me as unnecessary. it feels a little like an attempt to squeeze more money out of their users by forcing them to buy more dongles and accessories that in the end make the whole ensemble look simply unappealing. There isn't much gain in aesthetics if the main unit looks sleek, but the whole thing is a mess once it's assembled in a configuration that's actually usable.

Jobs understood this. Back in the Jobs era, these were absolutely awesome systems. Personally, I don't really see that anymore. It gets clunkier, messier and overall it starts to feel more and more like what Apple tried to distance itself in the past: A cluttered, unmanageable mess like anything Microsoft made. I miss that "just works" factor that really made Apple stand out.

Re:Not surprising

[TheFakeTimCook]

My job is in security. And among other things, we do test and break security features of mobile phones. Unfortunately that meant that in the more recent past, I could not recommend using iPhones anymore. Which kinda sucks, because I really liked them. Cook insists in using technology that just isn't there yet, all for the sake of looking cutting edge and offering some flashy gimmicks that can be used in ads as a "look, shiny!" distraction.

Can you elaborate? What "technology that just isn't there yet" does the iPhone use that others don't? Genuinely curious.

Same thing with the emojis and animojis and whatnot. Yes, they're nice and sure, they were created as a side project somewhere, why not ship them? What I didn't get was how they were touted as the next best thing since sliced bread and a must-have feature, one that supposedly sells the phone. That was the bit I didn't get about them. Yes, they sure don't hurt, but ... THAT is the selling point? It kinda makes you think that they're grasping at straws when they have to use that for their sales pitch.

Here's what I think happened with the Animojis and then Memojies:

1. Apple's Devs. wanted a way to test their Face-Tracking API (ya know, the one they were going to make Public for 3rd party Devs. to use in games and whatnot). Someone internally came up with the Animojies. Someone else showed it to "Marketing", and they thought it was great. Fine. Include it in the release build and the Keynote... Makes a cute demo.

2. THEN, Samsung comes along and jumps BIG TIME into the Animoji "feature", significantly "upping the game". Well, now it's WAR... Now, Apple HAS to respond, or all the Samsung fanbois will crow about "How much more sophisticated Samsung's animojies are than Apples, blah, blah. So Apple HAD to invest more time and effort into the concept, AND make SURE it was part of the WWDC Keynote. But you could tell that Federighi was pretty-much rolling his eyes the whole time. Perhaps as a non-native English speaker (although you did get the "sliced bread" phrase right!), maybe you didn't catch some of his nuances and quick-jokes; but I assure you, they were there. Rest assured that, deep down, Apple is just having a bit of fun. As long as it doesn't compromise privacy or security, Is there anything really wrong with that?

The removal of various jacks strikes me as unnecessary. it feels a little like an attempt to squeeze more money out of their users by forcing them to buy more dongles and accessories that in the end make the whole ensemble look simply unappealing. There isn't much gain in aesthetics if the main unit looks sleek, but the whole thing is a mess once it's assembled in a configuration that's actually usable.

Now here, you sound less like a serious Security Professional, and more like one of those AC Apple-Haters, with their ridiculous conspiracy theories. I like a good Conspiracy Theory as much as the next guy; but it just isn't here.

Bottom line: Apple wasn't the first to eliminate the 3.5 mm jack. They are just (as usual) ahead of the curve. They INCLUDED not only a 3.5 mm adapter, but also a Lightning Headset. So just HOW does that help Apple "sell more dongles"? They even priced their Lightning -> 3.5mm adapter cable at US $9.00, which is REALLY low-priced for an Apple accessory cable; so again, doesn't seem like "profit" is the motive here. People (including you, i guess) need to sit back and think these conspiracy theories through before you make fools of yourselves on the internet for all to see...

Jobs understood this. Back in the Jobs era, these were absolutely awesome systems. Personally, I don't really see that anymore. It gets clunkier, messier and overall it starts to feel more and more like what Apple tried to distance itself in the past: A cluttered, unmanageable mess like anything Microsoft made. I miss that "just works" factor that really made Apple stand out.

AAPL

[registrations_suck]

In the meantime, AAPL is up and up and up. I hope it keeps it up. Even if you don't like its products, ya gotta like its stock (:

Re:AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

stop writing smiley face backwards you dolt

Re:AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

stop writing smiley face backwards you dolt

There are spelling rules and grammar for ascii art? Would you mind proofreading my p0rn collection? https://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n...

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

When a company grows its market share, increases units sold, increases average selling price, and posts record numbers, stocks tend to do okay.

The reason Apple dropped to second is because Huawei has been knocking it out of the park at Samsung’s expense. Samsung shed over 10% of their market share YoY. Apple grew their share, though not as fast as Huawei did, suggesting that it’s mostly Android manufacturers canabalizing each other’s sales and share.

Re:AAPL

[registrations_suck]

stop writing smiley face backwards you dolt

NASDAQ: AAPL
198.51 USD +8.22 (4.32%)

(:

Re:AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

waiting for the 51% attack when Huawei gets majority marketshare?

Re:AAPL

[LynnwoodRooster]

The reason Apple dropped to second is because Huawei has been knocking it out of the park at Samsung’s expense.

Apple dropped to 3rd, behind Samsung (1st) and Huawei (2nd).

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Sorry, seems I had a brain fart while typing. "Third" is what I had intended to say. Thanks for the correction.

Re:AAPL

[fred6666]

Samsung lost 2% market share but Huawei won 4.8%. So less than half can be "at Samsung's expense".

Apple's marginally increased its market share (0.7%) to 12.1%. Which means close to 88% of smartphones sold ran Google's operating system. Google may be the real winner here.

Xiaomi is probably the next one to overtake Apple in market share.

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Look at the chart and you'll see that the other half came at the expense of "Other" manufacturers, meaning it was churn within the Android ecosystem, since there essentially isn't anyone else. And yeah, Google definitely is the winner here, and I too wouldn't be surprised if Xiaomi overtakes Apple.

Re:AAPL

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Samsung's lead over both Huawei and Apple dropped. It dropped by more over Huawei, but both Huawei and Apple are winning, and Samsung is losing.

Or to put it a different way: You own Burger King. Wendy's becomes bigger than you. However, both of you grew by stealing customers from McDonald's (still the biggest). DO you care your sales (in numbers and percent of all fast food) went up, or where you are in the rankings?

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

In the meantime, AAPL is up and up and up.

Realistically, AAPL is up only 2.5% vs same day last week. But if you think it's only going up and up, then by all means, mortgage your house and load up.

Why do you suppose that AAPL only only got a 2.5% bump when earnings went up almost 16%? Somebody smarter than you is a bit nervous.

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

The reason Apple dropped to second is because Huawei has been knocking it out of the park at Samsung’s expense.

Apple dropped to third, not second. Samsung did well to hold onto first place in the face of truly aggressive competition. And don't forget that Samsung makes a bunch of moulah every time Apple sells an iPhone.

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

"Third" is what I had intended to say. Thanks for the correction.

Third place sounds like teh kinda suck, n'est ce pas?

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

Google may be the real winner here.

Ya think? Another big winner is Android users, more value per dollar than ever. And the manufacturing ecosystem is doing great, including the ARM sector.

Re:AAPL

[TheFakeTimCook]

stop writing smiley face backwards you dolt

There are spelling rules and grammar for ascii art? Would you mind proofreading my p0rn collection?

https://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n...

You actually made me chuckle out loud. Bravo!

Re:AAPL

[TheFakeTimCook]

stop writing smiley face backwards you dolt

Really struggling to find something negative to say, aren't you?

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Apple dropped to third, not second.

Yup. As I already said in response to an earlier correction, it was a brain fart on my part. Hopefully it was clear from the context that I intended to say "third". Thanks for the additional correction.

Samsung did well to hold onto first place in the face of truly aggressive competition.

Agreed. Both Huawei and Xiaomi had incredible quarters and Samsung managed to hang onto first despite them. We'll see if that lasts, but Samsung has had a great run so far at the top.

And don't forget that Samsung makes a bunch of moulah every time Apple sells an iPhone.

Oh, absolutely. Samsung is in no immediate danger of going out of business, nor was I intending to suggest they were. I'll readily admit that I don't like Samsung (because of their ongoing history of illegal business practices, such as the slush funds they've maintained for bribing South Korean politicians, a practice that has resulted in the ousting of their last two CEOs, as well as the impeachment and subsequent removal from office of the President of South Korea, who was a recipient of their bribes), but I don't tie my self-worth to the rise or fall of any given company and am by no means trying to make an argument that they're doomed, nor that everything is great in Apple-land. I'll leave those conclusions for others to jump to.

For my part, I'm simply pointing out the facts painted by the numbers: that, contrary to the implication of the headline, Huawei and Xiaomi didn't gain at Apple's expense, but rather Samsung's and others'. That's it.

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

Samsung is not the sweetest kid on the block, I agree, but they are hardly the worst either. Cosy ties between government and chaebol has been a Korea thing since long before they got out from under their dictators. Impressive show of national spine that they tackled that one. Now its all hugs and kisses again. Koreans are justifiably proud of their Samsung. Compare to Apple who got nailed for blatant collusion over engineering hiring practices and has young workers jumping off the upper floors of their factory dorms.

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Really, I'd say that anyone in the chart is clearly a winner (as well as many who didn't make the chart), but who cares? If you've tied your self-worth to a particular brand's rise or fall, you need to break free from that.

Love 'em or hate 'em, Apple's smartphones are clearly aimed at a niche of the market, so we need companies like Samsung, Huawei, and Xiaomi to serve the needs of others, and I fully expect those other groups of people to outnumber the niche served by Apple. I don't recommend any given brand to everyone, nor would it be a good thing if all I had was a single brand that I could recommend. Instead, I listen to people, hear what their needs and priorities are, and then can tailor a recommendation specifically for that person. So long as we have a good diversity of companies offering a good diversity of products that fulfill a good diversity of different use cases and needs, I'm fine with the state of things.

Apple may be the company that sold me my current device (an iPhone 5s from 2013), and I expect I'll go with them for my next one as well because what they offer is what I like, but I have every reason to believe that may not always be the case. If they go out of business or shift their focus in a direction that doesn't align with my interests, I expect that others will rise to fill the void left by them, and I'm fine with that. I don't need for Samsung to fail to feel personally fulfilled, nor do I need Apple to succeed in the market for me to maintain some sense of self-worth. I'd advise you do similarly.

Re:AAPL

[ausekilis]

Apple.. something... something... courage.

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

I'd say that anyone in the chart is clearly a winner (as well as many who didn't make the chart), but who cares? If you've tied your self-worth to a particular brand's rise or fall, you need to break free from that.

The way Apple your fans stake out their fallback positions is really entertaining. Isn't there an Aesop's fable about that? Somebody about a fox and grapes...

I don't need for Samsung to fail to feel personally fulfilled, nor do I need Apple to succeed in the market for me to maintain some sense of self-worth. I'd advise you do similarly.

Apple's walled garden and its arrogance offend me, so sorry, not going to suddenly go all lovey dovey. Lose the arrogance and the walled garden then fine.

Re:AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple may be the company that sold me my current device (an iPhone 5s from 2013)

I don't need for Samsung to fail to feel personally fulfilled, nor do I need Apple to succeed in the market for me to maintain some sense of self-worth.

You sir, are doing it wrong. You won't be accepted on the Apple fanboys circles with that attitude. Steve Jobs, from heavens, looks down on you.

Re: AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry there's no gay porn in that stash. I know you are deeply disappointed.

Fucking flamer.

Re:AAPL

[gnasher719]

Why do you suppose that AAPL only only got a 2.5% bump when earnings went up almost 16%? Somebody smarter than you is a bit nervous.

Because AAPL went up earlier through the quarter with people _expecting_ their earnings to go up.

It seems people had expect Apple's earnings to go up by about 13%. Since they went up by 16%, that explains a 2.5% gain for AAPL.

Re:AAPL

[LynnwoodRooster]

Who sold more phones? The margin of "winning" got smaller - but in the end, who sold more phones?

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

You're painting with a wide brush if you think I'm a fanboy. Why would I need a fallback position? Why would I be arrogant? Where did I say anything about being lovey dovey?

I suggested you needed to gain some maturity and recognize that not everyone who made a different choice than you is out to attack your position, nor are they all as invested in their choices as you seem to be in yours. Does a Samsung device work well for you? Great! Does an Apple device? Great! Does Huawei? Xiaomi? Blackberry? Great! Find what works for you and enjoy it.

Apple works for me. I enjoy it, but whether they rise or fall in the market is no skin off my nose, so other than you projecting your past experiences with Apple fanboys onto me (and, to be fair, Apple fanboys are both real and really annoying), I have no idea where you're getting any of these wrong notions about me.

Re:AAPL

[registrations_suck]

In the meantime, AAPL is up and up and up.

Realistically, AAPL is up only 2.5% vs same day last week. But if you think it's only going up and up, then by all means, mortgage your house and load up.

Why do you suppose that AAPL only only got a 2.5% bump when earnings went up almost 16%? Somebody smarter than you is a bit nervous.

If you're only looking at things from a week-to-week perspective, then by all means, please continue doing so.

Why do you suppose AAPL is at an all-time high, up 19% this year, 28% in the past year, 300% in the past five years and 840% in the last 10 years?

Someone smarter than you can look past last week.

Re:AAPL

[Tough Love]

You're painting with a wide brush if you think I'm a fanboy.

I didn't directly call you a fanboy (note obvious typo in the post). You're a sort of sitting on the fence one-time fanboy with a high probability of switching brands. Why should I go out of my way to offend you? But the fallback arguments of Apple fanboys are nonetheless a source of amusement. Current one is "but they make more money than anybody" ironically missing the signs of danger in that.

I suggested you needed to gain some maturity... I have no idea where you're getting any of these wrong notions about me.

I clearly called Apple arrogant, not you. But you seem touchy about it, and that maturity snipe was just plain patronizing.

Re:AAPL

[Anonymous Coward]

That’s not how stocks work. Tesla shows the correct way stocks work. You lose an ever increasing amount of money, titter on the edge of bankruptcy, and fail to meet your projection, then your stock should go up.

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Yeah...I cringed when I heard them utter that line on stage, though I'm afraid I don't see the relevance here.

Re:AAPL

[Anubis IV]

Given his religious beliefs, I sincerely doubt Jobs is looking down on me in the afterlife. ;)

In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind the fact that AAPL is about to be the first trillion-dollar company selling basically one phone, everyone on /. is convinced they're dead. Huawei's rise is a sign of China's current economic largesse.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Freischutz]

Never mind the fact that AAPL is about to be the first trillion-dollar company selling basically one phone, everyone on /. is convinced they're dead.

They are all members of "The venerable order of the bee in the bonnet" and Michael Dell is their Grand Poobah.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

Dead? Far from it. But Apple is doing what MS has been doing since the 90s: Moving through inertia. The engine is off.

Juggernauts like Apple can do this. Even with no new products, Apple would still make acceptable profits for a while. Apple store, accessories, repairs and add-on sales would certainly keep the revenue going. But they would be living off products that they already designed, created, made and sold. That can keep a company the size of Apple afloat for a couple years.

After that, the Juggernaut is dead in the water. And as any oil tanker captain will tell you, getting a huge thing like that moving again takes a LOT of fuel for very, very little gain in the first couple days.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Freischutz]

Dead? Far from it. But Apple is doing what MS has been doing since the 90s: Moving through inertia. The engine is off.

Juggernauts like Apple can do this. Even with no new products, Apple would still make acceptable profits for a while. Apple store, accessories, repairs and add-on sales would certainly keep the revenue going. But they would be living off products that they already designed, created, made and sold. That can keep a company the size of Apple afloat for a couple years.

After that, the Juggernaut is dead in the water. And as any oil tanker captain will tell you, getting a huge thing like that moving again takes a LOT of fuel for very, very little gain in the first couple days.

So what game changing revolutionary new products had Huawei brought to the mobile market recently? ... or to the Tech market in general?

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

None. But they're dirt cheap and their batteries don't explode.

Yes, sadly that's enough to beat the two leading cellphone makers...

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

While they have had new products that were huge successes since Jobs (AirPods, Apple Watch seems to be doing exceptionally well) the real growth of Apple's business will be in services. They sell a premium product and they have been increasing their average selling price. There are only so many people they can sell products too, there's a ceiling on that hardware growth. So now they focus on services, which is growing extremely well.

What specific indicators are you seeing that suggests Apple is only moving on inertia? Even when Jobs was alive they were not producing a completely new massively successful product every year. You had basically iPod, iPhone, iPad (which everyone on Slashdot called "a big iPhone). And that was from 2001 to 2010. Since his death in 2011 we've had: AirPods, iPad Pro, Apple Watch, Apple Music, Siri, TouchID/FaceID, etc etc. It seems to me that they are still moving forward pretty well without Jobs.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Freischutz]

None. But they're dirt cheap and their batteries don't explode.

Yes, sadly that's enough to beat the two leading cellphone makers...

So basically Huawei is also a Juggernaut is dead in the water and running on inertia .... come to think of it, as far as I am concerned, so are Microsoft, Google, Intel, Nividia, ... long, long list.

Re: In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Well they would be building your 5g network if your incumbents didn't bribe the right people.

Plus the have actual tech patents not just rounded corners.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[fred6666]

you are calling TouchID a product? Seriously?

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Huawei is just gearing up for 5G - the next game changer.
There are no open source phones yet. Zero. None. Most have Broadcom modem binaries - a blob with conditions a production tax as well. EU is starting to notice.

Fancy overpriced screens are getting cheaper, and prices are dropping - the exception being Apple (maybe a snob factor) The Chinese are starting to realize they need something better than generic Android - which we now know is rather poor by design and unsupported in an attempt to encourage upgrades.

One China breaks Broadcoms 'hold you back' - they might get traction. Even Apple is going to diversify - they have the money to do it come 5G.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[timholman]

There are only so many people they can sell products too, there's a ceiling on that hardware growth.

The ceiling would go a bit higher if Apple bothered to significantly update any of its hardware (beyond the iPhone) on a regular basis.

I'm in dire need of a new Mac Pro and a new MacBook Pro. I've got several thousand dollars that I'd be more than happy to hand over to Apple, provided they could bother to market replacements that I cared to buy. There may be some hope for the Mac Pro, depending on what appears in 2019. I don't know if I'll ever buy another MacBook Pro unless someone at Apple begins making rational design decisions instead of focusing on appearance, thinness, and weight alone.

Apple is very willingly turning its product line into an iPhone / Apple services monoculture. If current trends continue, sooner or later Apple will stumble in one of those two areas, and it'll be a bloodbath in the stock market. I'm just waiting for the right time to sell my Apple stock. Right now the monoculture is still on an upward trajectory (helped in large part by the even greater incompetence of the competition), but it's not going to last.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Tough Love]

So basically Huawei is also a Juggernaut is dead in the water and running on inertia

You wish. Huawei is still enjoying expontial growth driven by its value proposition at the low end. Should Apple worry? What happens to Apple's hopes for explosive growth in China?

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

Dead? Far from it. But Apple is doing what MS has been doing since the 90s: Moving through inertia. The engine is off.

Juggernauts like Apple can do this. Even with no new products, Apple would still make acceptable profits for a while. Apple store, accessories, repairs and add-on sales would certainly keep the revenue going. But they would be living off products that they already designed, created, made and sold. That can keep a company the size of Apple afloat for a couple years.

After that, the Juggernaut is dead in the water. And as any oil tanker captain will tell you, getting a huge thing like that moving again takes a LOT of fuel for very, very little gain in the first couple days.

Hell, Apple could STOP selling EVERY product TODAY, and keep every single employee worldwide at their desks at full salary playing games all day for about 25 YEARS before the lights would be turned-off.

That give Apple a LOT of time to come up with "The Next Big Thing".

Fortunately, in the meantime, they are selling goods and services quite handily, thank you very much. That extends that "Lights Out" time by several DECADES.

Sorry, Apple will not be going away in the lifetime of anyone who is reading this. OR their children's.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

There are only so many people they can sell products too, there's a ceiling on that hardware growth.

Apple has about 10% of the Desktop Market.

Apple has about 12% of the Mobile Phone Market.

I think there is SIGNIFICANT distance to the "Ceiling" when it comes to "Hardware Growth".

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[tlhIngan]

The ceiling would go a bit higher if Apple bothered to significantly update any of its hardware (beyond the iPhone) on a regular basis.

I'm in dire need of a new Mac Pro and a new MacBook Pro. I've got several thousand dollars that I'd be more than happy to hand over to Apple, provided they could bother to market replacements that I cared to buy. There may be some hope for the Mac Pro, depending on what appears in 2019. I don't know if I'll ever buy another MacBook Pro unless someone at Apple begins making rational design decisions instead of focusing on appearance, thinness, and weight alone.

Not really. First off, people seem to "want" a Mac Pro, yet it and the Mac Mini have consistently been Apple's worst selling Macs. This going back all the way. That's why they don't get much love - because the Apple-buying public doesn't give them much love. Oh sure there's a few people who love them, but it's not a big market. Not big enough to justify extensive R&D effort.

It's even worse for the Mac Pro since those are considered high end machines, everyone ends up comparing them to well, high end machines and then they're now in the league of workstation PCs by Dell and others and get compared as such.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Tough Love]

the real growth of Apple's business will be in services

Its rapidly shaping up as the only realistic avenue remaining. After all, can Apple realistically convince its diehard cultists to fork over $2000 of their retirement savings each upgrade instead of just $1000? IPad is shrinking, Macs are the walking dead, and the smartwatch market isn't meeting expectations. But there is only so much Apple can do with its walled garden services before users start walking and governments step in with well founded monopoly concerns. Basically, Apple will try to be the new AOL, but you know where that went.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

I don't know if I'll ever buy another MacBook Pro unless someone at Apple begins making rational design decisions instead of focusing on appearance, thinness, and weight alone.

And if you'd get your head out of your ass, you'd see that Apple HAS been making VERY rational design decisions with the MacBook Pros. You're just too stupid and backward to think ahead a few years, when you will still have that MacBook Pro.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Tough Love]

I'm in dire need of a new Mac Pro and a new MacBook Pro.

Why bother? Get a Linux box and a Pixelbook. More better.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes broken keyboard, overheating, throttled CPU and sub standard GPU.
Just what everyone wants.
  Goooo apple!

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Delusional rantings. Get help.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

It cute to think that; but stupid to actually write it down.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

Sorry if that was unclear, I was just referring to the "inertia" comment, generally. Certainly lots of innovation still seems to be coming from Apple.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

Apple doesn't produce products that cater to the other 90%, simply based on average selling price. The damage it would do to their brand to produce "cheap" products wouldn't be worth it. They focus on high-end, high margin products. So no, there isn't that much growth left in pure marketshare.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

After all, can Apple realistically convince its diehard cultists to fork over $2000 of their retirement savings each upgrade instead of just $1000?

Probably some very small percentage. Just like they found out with the iPhone X. It will certainly sell in lower volumes, but there may be enough of a market.

IPad is shrinking

The problem with the iPad is that people don't need to replace them frequently enough. Apple is a victim of their own success there.

Macs are the walking dead

Now there's some hyperbole for you. I'd be happy to take that "walking dead" off their hands (3.7M units).

and the smartwatch market isn't meeting expectations

Who's expectations? It's the best selling watch brand in the world.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Tough Love]

Macs are the walking dead

Now there's some hyperbole for you. I'd be happy to take that "walking dead" off their hands (3.7M units).

Sony sold 2 million handsets and that is considered dead. I'd be happy to take that off their hands as well. Does not change the fact.

and the smartwatch market isn't meeting expectations

Who's expectations?

Apple's expectations. Apple has a big fat share price to feed and the small contribution from smartwatches is not anywhere close to enough. That market was expected to explode like the original iphone and it didn't.

Re: In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

The resident Apple fanboy who will never admit a mistake.

So that new 2018 MacBook Pro that cost $7000 maxed out is a piece of shit.

Re: In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Anonymous Coward]

Resident Apple fanboy.

This folks, is what we call wishful thinking. He owns stock and a shit ton of Apple products. Sadly, he also owns 10 dongles as well. Some are for his asshole.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

Apple doesn't produce products that cater to the other 90%, simply based on average selling price. The damage it would do to their brand to produce "cheap" products wouldn't be worth it. They focus on high-end, high margin products. So no, there isn't that much growth left in pure marketshare.

Wait until they switch to ARM for their "consumer"-level machines.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

Huawei is still accelerating, their sales point is being cheap. And in this economy, that's what sells.

And let's be honest here, do you care whether your phone falls apart in 2 years? First of all, chances are good that it will anyway, even if it's from a big name. Manufacturing is so sloppy and manufacturers are cutting so many corners (hold the puns about round corners, please) that everyone's production is by now at the bottom of the barrel. Quality doesn't come into play anymore anyway.

And who cares? Your adhesive contract that got you this phone you have for "really cheap" will run out in 2 years, so you want a new phone at that point anyway. And this phone comes FREE with your new adhesive contract!

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

Sorry if that was unclear, with "innovation" I meant "new and useful tools and features", not "flashy marketing gimmick nobody actually wants or even needs".

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

So far the theory. In fact, investors will become uneasy far, far earlier. Apple would survive that, easily, but you'll see a very different C-Level lineup very, very soon.

And since C-Levels make decisions in such companies, that's not going to happen anytime soon. They'd probably sink the company before going out with a whimper.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

So far the theory. In fact, investors will become uneasy far, far earlier. Apple would survive that, easily, but you'll see a very different C-Level lineup very, very soon.

And since C-Levels make decisions in such companies, that's not going to happen anytime soon. They'd probably sink the company before going out with a whimper.

But, since Apple WILL continue to innovate and sell products, it's all a REALLY unlikely scenario.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

Again, we seem to have diverging ideas what 'innovate' is supposed to mean.

They will continue to produce new gimmicky toys if Cook stays true to his line so far. Whether they will sell them depends on whether this is actually what Apple users really want. I know I wanted an iPhone back when the first came out. I also know I don't want an iPhone X.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

You think TouchID was a marketing gimmick? Do you prefer typing in a password?

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

Again, we seem to have diverging ideas what 'innovate' is supposed to mean.

They will continue to produce new gimmicky toys if Cook stays true to his line so far. Whether they will sell them depends on whether this is actually what Apple users really want. I know I wanted an iPhone back when the first came out. I also know I don't want an iPhone X.

But over a BILLION others, do.

Now what?

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

Now I wonder about the odd spelling you have for 12 millions.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

To having my phone unlocked by a person who knows how to etch a PCB and use play-doh? Yes.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

...and also has your fingerprints? I think there are simpler options.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

I've been eagerly awaiting ARM based Macbooks for years, but I think Apple will still use them to produce high margin products. While the CPU isn't cheap, it probably represents less than 10% of the total cost of the bill of materials of a Macbook Pro. That is to say, we might see $799 Macbook Airs, but we're not going to see $299 Macbooks.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[Opportunist]

None that don't involve you not knowing. Like, say, going with you for a drink, then having you spend the night with a hooker my company pays for, only for you to find your iPhone on the nightstand the next day after you wake up with a hangover the size of Texas...

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[TheFakeTimCook]

I've been eagerly awaiting ARM based Macbooks for years, but I think Apple will still use them to produce high margin products. While the CPU isn't cheap, it probably represents less than 10% of the total cost of the bill of materials of a Macbook Pro. That is to say, we might see $799 Macbook Airs, but we're not going to see $299 Macbooks.

That CPU percentage of the BOM cost is just a raw guess, and not even a sophisticated one. If the CPU goes from $185 to $20 (perfectly possible), then that $165 difference should be reflected in the MSRP as about $495 (at a 3 X markup over raw materials cost). That gives us about a $500 MacBook (non Pro) or MacBook Air. And, as they start integrating more stuff into the CPU and it starts becoming a MacBook SoC, the cost reductions just keep piling up. Heat is probably the only limiting factor.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

That CPU percentage of the BOM cost is just a raw guess, and not even a sophisticated one.

It was actually based on some (dated) numbers I found from a quick Google search. We can either both guess or produce something from the experts. If you have something more accurate I'd love to see it (really, no sarcasm).

If the CPU goes from $185 to $20 (perfectly possible), then that $165 difference should be reflected in the MSRP as about $495 (at a 3 X markup over raw materials cost). That gives us about a $500 MacBook (non Pro) or MacBook Air.

No, that's not how that works. Even if true, you can only maybe use that as a proxy to estimate the total retail cost to produce the device including marketing, support, etc. The bill of materials is only one component that makes up the total MSRP of a device, many of which cannot be reduced because the CPU was less expensive.

If you have better numbers than the ones I've linked, again, would love to look at them.

Re:In Before "Apple is Dead"

[jon3k]

None that don't involve you not knowing.

Like someone just ... watching you type it in?

Yeah, all these stocks going up and up....

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for facebook because it barely missed its growth expectations, I'm seeing a lot of increasing stock prices for the lamest reasons. I saw one stock jump over 30% yesterday because of great earnings (for one quarter) - but all of it's other numbers still lag the industry by half.

This may be the last hurrah before the correction that will occur. Once these stocks start not meeting expectations, the sell-off will occur.

And let's remember, the loftier the expectations, the more it can fall. *cough*Amazon*cough*Tesla*cough*
Businesses can only grow so fast and for so much.

Re:Punish China

[Anonymous Coward]

And where will Apple get its phones made then?

Love em, but the U.S. government kicked them

[p51d007]

to the ground. I've had 3, but I think this one (Mate9) will be my last. Software updates...or better yet, LACK OF software updates. Still waiting for the June security patch, let alone July. Can't blame them though, the way they were treated.

Who Are We

[pipingguy]

Is that how the brand name is pronounced?

So Unfair!

[Anonymous Coward]

"I put ZTE back in business and then Huawei moves in and takes over! So unfair! I'm going to put tariffs on South Korea and start a Not Trade War! By the way I have a super relationship with the South Korean President and the Huawei President, an 11 out of 10, they are the Greatest, Powerful People, so Strong, too bad their company is the worst!

Where is my coke and fries?"

Actually, apple is 3rd brand and 4th manufacturer

[williamyf]

If we look at BRANDS, Q2 is Samsung first (loosing share), Huawei second (gaining share fast) and Apple Third (ganing share slowly).

But, if we look at MANUFACTURERS, Samsung is first (losing share), BBK is second (gainig share fast), Huawei is third (gaining share fast) and Apple is fourth (gainig share slowly).

Samsung and Aplle only have their namesake brands, while Huawei has the Huawei and Honor Brands, and BBK has the Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus and other brands in their stable.

No big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

No big deal. China has a market of 1.3 billion consumers within its borders plus countless overseas Chinese qiao-bao to soak up those HwaWei phones.