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Apple Watch Series 4 Includes a Bigger Display, ECG Support, and 64-Bit S4 Chip (9to5mac.com)

Apple has unveiled its next-generation Apple Watch Series 4 smartwatch, featuring a larger display with smaller bezels, a 64-bit processor that's twice as fast as the previous generation, and electrocardiography (ECG) support. 9to5Mac reports: In terms of hardware, the Digital Crown has been completely reengineered with haptic feedback. For instance, as you flip through content in the Podcast application. The speaker is also over 50 percent louder, according to [Apple COO Jeff Williams]. As we reported earlier this week, the Apple Watch Series 4 uses a new 64-bit processor that offers performance up to two times faster performance. There's also a next-generation accelerometer gyroscope, which Williams says allows Apple Watch to detect a fall. When a fall is detected, Apple Watch will send an alert prompting you to call emergency services. If it senses you are immobile for more than 1 minute, the call will be started automatically.

As for heart features, Apple Watch is now capable of detecting a low rate. The device will also now screen your heart rhythm, allowing it to detect atrial fibrillation. As expected, Apple Watch Series 4 also now supports ECG -- which measures the electrical activity of the heart. With Apple Watch, you can take an ECG directly on the Apple Watch by putting your finger directly on the digital crown. The feature -- as well as irregular heart rate detection -- has received FDA clearance. Williams says that all health and fitness is encrypted on-device and in the cloud. Battery life on Apple Watch Series 4 is the same, 18-hours as before. Outdoor workout time is now 6 hours.
In terms of pricing and colors, the Apple Watch Series 4 will start at $399 for the GPS model and $499 for the cellular model, with preorders starting September 14th. The aluminum model will feature space gray, silver, and black color configurations, while the stainless steel model will feature gold, polished black, and space black color configurations.

172 comments

  1. Really nice to have an ECG onboard by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Now instead of mere reaction videos people can include before and after ECG readings from the heart as well!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EKG, you stupid idiots.

    2. Re: Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait for the pornhub api.... average heart and fap rate of viewers at each point in the video.

    3. Re: Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EKG, you stupid idiots.

      No, stupid, it is medically allowed as ECG or EKG.

    4. Re: Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're the stupid idiot, idiot!

    5. Re: Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heart Disease and Electrocardiograms

      Seems you're the "stupid idiot." You might do at least 10 seconds of research next time before making yourself look like a fucking moron.

    6. Re:Really nice to have an ECG onboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tim Cock is using iWatch to lube a dildo in his stupid butthole.

    7. Re:Really nice to have an ECG onboard by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Tim Cock is using iWatch to lube a dildo in his stupid butthole.

      What are you, like six years old?

  2. Help! I've fallen and can't unlock my watch! by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    That'll be a trigger signal to emergency responders to get out the tranquilizer gun.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  3. Re:No smartwatches in Federal prison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry Trump traitors ...

    TDS. GAfG.

  4. If google made this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would also detect rapid back and forth motion with accelerated heartbeat to prompt for kleenex ads and dating services.

    1. Re:If google made this... by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Why would autistic stress rocking call for kleenex and dating? Shouldn't this instead call for calming music and comfort foods?

      You did specify "if Google made this".

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    2. Re: If google made this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you suggesting google users aren't wankers?

    3. Re: If google made this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me ask you this, if your electronic wristband showed activity that was consistent with one of the following behaviors:
      1) masturbating
      2) having an autistic panic attack (hands over ears and rocking body back and forth)
      which would you admit to doing?

      Maybe there's other options? Playing tennis with a Nintendo Wii? Running on a treadmill? Got Rick Rolled and just got caught up in the tune? Alcohol withdrawal? Replacing a bad wall outlet and forgot to switch off the circuit breaker? Parkinson's setting in?

      Pretty sure the implication is that the Google alpha testers are the autistic type and therefore the software would catch on to this.

  5. ITT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So much anger from Android fanboys

    Face it: Apple sets the bar high and everyone else tries to catch up

    1. Re:ITT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where's my 10-day battery life?

  6. what I don't even by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

    Firstly what.

    64 bit on a watch? Does this thing access more than 2 GiB of addressable memory?

    And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified (it's bloody hard to get a good reading from the wrist under ideal conditions never mind on a watch without wet silver chloride electrodes). That makes is not just useless but actively deceptive. Fitbit couldn't even manage heart rate (via pulse ox like tech which is way easier that far distal) without a class action lawsuit.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
    1. Re:what I don't even by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is certified by the FDA for AFib and ECG.

    2. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's FDA approved.

    3. Re:what I don't even by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      64 bit on a watch? Does this thing access more than 2 GiB of addressable memory?

      And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified (it's bloody hard to get a good reading from the wrist under ideal conditions never mind on a watch without wet silver chloride electrodes). That makes is not just useless but actively deceptive. Fitbit couldn't even manage heart rate (via pulse ox like tech which is way easier that far distal) without a class action lawsuit.

      No, it's got an ARM processor, and 64-bit ARM is vastly faster than 32-bit ARM due to various optimizations available that 32-bit ARM is incapable of. (conditional instruction execution is no longer present on AArch64 because it hamstrings out of order execution when instructions depend on each other) and other such things. And by "vastly faster", we're easily talking 2x or more.

      And the monitoring stuff likely came about because "apple watch saves lives" started becoming a thing. There are plenty of reports of people being alerted to heart conditions by Apple Watch and getting checked out by a doctor, only to discover than they were hours away from a massive heart attack or other heart condition.

      So while the ECG and such may not be precise enough to be a replacement for a real machine at a hospital, it may prove to be sufficient for Apple Watch to say "Please see a doctor NOW for potential heart condition". It's one of those things where even if it misses a few people, it may alert a few more to heart conditions they never knew they had.

    4. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified (it's bloody hard to get a good reading from the wrist under ideal conditions never mind on a watch without wet silver chloride electrodes).

      And yet Apple received FDA clearance for both ECG and aFib detection. Enjoy your cold day in hell.

    5. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let the schooling begin

    6. Re:what I don't even by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      64bit makes development more unified regardless whether or not you need to address more than 4GB of RAM.

      As for the ECG certification, perhaps it's functional, but not nearly with the same resolution as the kind found with a dedicated machine.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      64-bit ARM is vastly faster than 32-bit ARM

      Not it isn't, and whatever small advantages it has come at the expense of more power-hungry transistors, at least twice as many for the ALU. An idiotic tradeoff for a watch. And I suppose, marketing has sent talking points around explaining why 64 is better than 32 that don't need to be right, they just need to sound good to an uncritical mind.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:what I don't even by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Huh I see. So I just checked, it's only certified ECG when you touch a metal bit in it with your other hand. Yeah that's technically feasible for a single channel ECG. Not really sure how useful that is. It's certainly not a continuous monitoring device that's for sure.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's certainly not a continuous monitoring device that's for sure.

      And where exactly does Apple claim that it is? Funny that you're signature decries claims of "you didn't read it" as spurious when clearly "you didn't read it".

    10. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      64bit makes development more unified

      So let me get this straight, Apple devs save some money while customers get a watch that won't make it through a day.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    11. Re:what I don't even by shilly · · Score: 1

      Um. The FDA has certified it. AliveCor has been certified for the same purpose for a while. The way you think the world is, is not how it actually is.

    12. Re:what I don't even by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 1

      Huh I see. So I just checked, it's only certified ECG when you touch a metal bit in it with your other hand. Yeah that's technically feasible for a single channel ECG. Not really sure how useful that is. It's certainly not a continuous monitoring device that's for sure.

      I broke some bones in an accident and ended up in hospital. When they did an ECG they found I had AFib without being aware of it. I wonder if anyone's new watch will give them a surprise like that. It's not like healthy thirty- and forty-somethings get ECGs that often.

    13. Re:what I don't even by shilly · · Score: 1

      There are tons of examples of consumerised sensors delivering real value in clinical settings. eg wireless blood pressure cuffs.

      Accuracy and richness of datasets aren't the be-all and end-all. Frequency of measurement can be very important. Hell, take the example of wireless blood pressure cuffs -- they are less accurate than the cuffs used by health professionals, but readings aren't distorted by white coat hypertension

    14. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhhh... yeah he is correct. Check benchmarks for AARCH 64 linux vs 32bit.
      They where able to correct several architectural decisions by starting completely over with a new design.

    15. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Firstly what.

      64 bit on a watch? Does this thing access more than 2 GiB of addressable memory?

      And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified (it's bloody hard to get a good reading from the wrist under ideal conditions never mind on a watch without wet silver chloride electrodes). That makes is not just useless but actively deceptive. Fitbit couldn't even manage heart rate (via pulse ox like tech which is way easier that far distal) without a class action lawsuit.

      Isn't it disgusting how Apple employees get on here and mod down any comment critical of Apple's design mistakes? That doesn't turn a bad product into a good one, but it does tell you about Apple's corporate culture.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    16. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      What benchmarks? Nobody has any yet, there aren't even details about which ARM core the S4 uses. Until those details come out, Apple astroturfers will spin the "twice as fast" angle as hard as they can. My take on it: IPC differs only slightly between current 32 bit and 64 bit ARM cores, but power draw is significantly higher for 64 bit cores. Or to put it simply, the power draw penalty outweighs the IPC increase, if there actually any. To work around this, Apple will redefine the length of the day.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    17. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      My take on it: IPC differs only slightly between current 32 bit and 64 bit ARM cores, but power draw is significantly higher for 64 bit cores.

      ARM disagrees (slide 7), but what do they know.

    18. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FDA has certified it through 501k, which means nobody even actually looked at it or determined its functionality, they just judged it "substantially equivalent" to some other previous product (which was also likely cleared through 501k). I know the reply was specifically about FDA clearance, but speaking as someone who works on medical software that was cleared through 501k, a "substantially equivalent" finding does not have anything to do with the quality, realiability or safety of the product, just that the FDA felt lazy and "LOL MEDICUL DEVICE INNUHVATION."

    19. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Support your argument, please, because slide 7 does not.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    20. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Something about "highest efficiency" in the A35 that you do not understand?

    21. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Something about, you are imagining something in that slide that isn't there. Please try a little harder.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    22. Re:what I don't even by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Yup. Sounds about right.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    23. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      "Cortex-A35
      Highest Efficiency
      64/32-bit"

      It's there all right.

    24. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      With subtitle "64/32 bit". See the "32 bit" part? Your argument still not supported, you are trying to parse a slide. How lame. See if you can find something better, good luck.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    25. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for finding out the true about apples lie.
      Sometimes its hard to find but with an apple statement you always know there is a lie in there somewhere.

    26. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      With subtitle "64/32 bit". See the "32 bit" part?

      You do realize that means that the processor supports both 32- and 64-bit code, not that some are 32-bit only, right? "Most efficient 64-bit Armv8-A processor with full Armv7-A compatibility" in ARM's words.

      Your argument still not supported, you are trying to parse a slide.

      Sore because I can correctly parse one and you cannot?

      How lame. See if you can find something better, good luck.

      You surely realize that every ARMv8 processor short of the A76 is 64/32-bit, not 64 bit only. I mean, if you're comfortable with utterly gutting your own premise that "the power draw penalty outweighs the IPC increase, if there actually any" go ahead. The fact that the A35 (64/32-bit) is a higher efficiency core than the A32 (32 bit only) pretty much kills the argument even if you go that route.

    27. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      If A35 really is more power efficient than A7, other things being equal (cache, frequency, process) then why did Qualcomm go with A7 and not A35 for their new power efficient smartphone SoC?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    28. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      If A35 really is more power efficient than A7, other things being equal (cache, frequency, process) then why did Qualcomm go with A7 and not A35 for their new power efficient smartphone SoC?

      Nope. Time for you to prove the A7 is more power efficient, not for me to explain Qualcomm decisionmaking. "We slapped a limited function coprocessor onto an A7 in an attempt to cheaply extend battery life" is not a rebuttal to ARM's own documents.

    29. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      More like "we didn't go with A35 because A7 is more efficient". A35 has been out since 2015, Qualcomm had plenty of time to evaluate it. A7 obviously won. I guess I'm not trusting ARM on their marketing claim.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    30. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

      I guess I'm not trusting ARM on their marketing claim.

      So where's the false marketing lawsuit? After all, there's been three years for people to claim fraud versus claims like:

      "At the same frequency and process, the A35 architecture (codenamed Mercury), promises to be 10% lower power than the A7 while giving an 6-40% performance uplift depending on use-case. In integer workloads (SPECint2006) the A35 gives about 6% higher throughput than the A7, while floating point (SPECfp2000) is supposed to give a more substantial 36% increase."

      You're wrong. It's obvious to all. Stop embarrassing yourself, please.

    31. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      So absence of lawsuit is your new fallback argument.

      See "promises to be" in your own quote. Promises promises. See, ARM engineering told ARM marketing that "A35 is more power efficient than A53" and marketing twisted it. Omigosh, marketing did that. Qualcomm obviously untwisted it based on actual engineering, not marketing claims. But you want to ignore that with bluster.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    32. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified [...]

      The FDA would disagree with you:

      * https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf18/DEN180044.pdf

      Note that only US models have the ECG functionality, as that is the only locale it is certified in:

      * https://www.macrumors.com/2018/09/12/ecg-feature-us-only-coming-later-in-2018/

    33. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      So absence of lawsuit is your new fallback argument.

      In response to your fallback argument of "I don't believe ARM?" Yes.

      Qualcomm obviously untwisted it based on actual engineering, not marketing claims.

      Your link doesn't support that. There's is no indication that the A7 was selected for power efficiency rather than, oh, cost.

      Based upon one and only one very ambiguous link, you think that you can dismiss links to years of ARM materials as "bluster." Don't make me laugh.

      Provide power efficiency numbers. I'll even take relative numbers like "10% less." Seems only fair.

    34. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      There's is no indication that the A7 was selected for power efficiency rather than, oh, cost.

      Cost is a theory you pulled out of your ass, with zero support. Snapdragon Wear 3100 is based on a new ultra-low power hierarchical system architecture approach. More than sufficient evidence that the primary goal of Qualcomm's new SoC is power efficiency. And they passed up the A35 for that. Blow smoke all you want, it happened.

      Other than the Qualcomm 3100 data point, there is not a whole lot of evidence as this point in time about which system architecture is ultimately the most power efficient for a watch. Samsung with go with a v8 part in their next smartwatch, then everybody will be able to get head-to-head real life power efficiency data. Until then you're sounding, well, a bit strident. Just a bit. Maybe go for a walk or something.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    35. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Cost is a theory you pulled out of your ass, with zero support. Snapdragon Wear 3100 is based on a new ultra-low power hierarchical system architecture approach. More than sufficient evidence that the primary goal of Qualcomm's new SoC is power efficiency. And they passed up the A35 for that. Blow smoke all you want, it happened.

      Efficiency is a theory that you pulled out of your ass, and even your own article contradicts it.

      "This new SoC uses the same 28nm process and quad-core Cortex-A7 CPU as Wear 2100 "

      "The headline feature is the introduction of Qualcommâ(TM)s new ultra-low power, always-on co-processor, the QCC1110, positioned alongside the main SoC. This co-processor can switch off the main processing package, greatly increasing your smartwatchâ(TM)s battery life."

      "This new co-processor operates at a 20x lower power point than the main processor. It can only perform a few basic functions and itâ(TM)s only designed to update the watch face and read a very small amount of sensor data."

      The goal of the SOC may be power efficiency, but they aren't using the A7 to achieve that. It's the same old 2100 A7 that is being shut off as the main feature of the "new ultra-low power hierarchical system architecture."

      Does nothing to prove that the A7 is more efficient than the A35. Does everything to prove that your reading comprehension skills need loads of work.

    36. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      The absence of the A35 in Qualcomm's design proves that A36 did not get the design win, A7 did. Now go ahead and bluster about that.

      It's also interesting that 28nm got the design win, not 14nm. Instead of blowing an artery like you seem to be on the verge of, just sit back and see which product gets the win in the market. I'm predicting: not Apple.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    37. Re:what I don't even by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Huh I see. So I just checked, it's only certified ECG when you touch a metal bit in it with your other hand. Yeah that's technically feasible for a single channel ECG. Not really sure how useful that is. It's certainly not a continuous monitoring device that's for sure.

      They still have the optical heart rate sensor on the back. That IS continuous, and has already been credited with saving several lives.

    38. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      The absence of the A35 in Qualcomm's design proves that A36 did not get the design win

      Moving the goalposts:

      "My take on it: IPC differs only slightly between current 32 bit and 64 bit ARM cores, but power draw is significantly higher for 64 bit cores. Or to put it simply, the power draw penalty outweighs the IPC increase, if there actually any."

      Not proven.

      "If A35 really is more power efficient than A7, other things being equal (cache, frequency, process) then why did Qualcomm go with A7 and not A35 for their new power efficient smartphone SoC."

      Not falsified.

      "A3[5] did not get the design win, A7 did."

      A7 shut off by the QCC1110 95% of the time did. Watch-mode only functionality for a week, whoopee. Also, not the point.

      Power efficiency of A7 versus A35. Prove that's it better. Or continue to fail.

    39. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Not proven

      Strongly suggested by the fact that the A7 got the win. Better than your frantic arm waving.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    40. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Strongly suggested by the fact that the A7 got the win.

      Fail. Do better.

    41. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You got nothing.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    42. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      You got nothing.

      To paraphrase an apparent hypocrite: Your argument still not supported, you are trying to parse a product announcement. How lame. See if you can find something better, good luck.

    43. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Bye.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    44. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Bye.

      I win.

      "At the same frequency and process, the A35 architecture (codenamed Mercury), promises to be 10% lower power than the A7 while giving an 6-40% performance uplift depending on use-case. In integer workloads (SPECint2006) the A35 gives about 6% higher throughput than the A7, while floating point (SPECfp2000) is supposed to give a more substantial 36% increase"

      Still not proven false, and you quit.

    45. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Yes, you won the internet blowhard award today. You must be fun at parties.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    46. Re:what I don't even by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      What benchmarks? Nobody has any yet, there aren't even details about which ARM core the S4 uses. Until those details come out, Apple astroturfers will spin the "twice as fast" angle as hard as they can. My take on it: IPC differs only slightly between current 32 bit and 64 bit ARM cores, but power draw is significantly higher for 64 bit cores. Or to put it simply, the power draw penalty outweighs the IPC increase, if there actually any. To work around this, Apple will redefine the length of the day.

      You're an illiterate retard.

      There are two facts that point to the S4 being 64 bit:

      1. Apple said so.

      2. Apple is 64-bit "clean" across ALL of their OSes, except macOS. And the next version of macOS, Mojave, is supposed to be RELEASED in about a week from now is going to be the last macOS that will support 32-bit AT ALL. iOS kicked 32 bit to the curb a year ago with iOS 11.0.

      TL;dr 32 bit is D-E-A-D at Apple; so it wouldn't make any sense for them to regress with the S4 and WatchOS 5.

    47. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Yes, you won the internet blowhard award today. You must be fun at parties.

      Linking to actual tech articles and manufacturer info = blowhard, but saying that a product announcement "strongly suggests" something that it in no way does = proof.

      The fun part is that you were compelled to rebut anyone who dared to reply to your "What things? That actually matter to a watch?" with an almost fact-free and snarky reply. Which is the epitome of being a blowhard.

    48. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm, I hate to break it to you, but highest Efficiency does NOT mean lowest power consumption.

      It means that for a workload, the "working unit" per "energy unit" is the highest.

      The box right next to the one you read: "Smallest and *Lowest* Power (Arm V8-A)" clearly says 32-bit only. Every single one of the 32/64 bit on that slide either says high efficiency or performance, neither which is lowest power.

      Considering the device is going to be roughly idle 90% of the time (displaying the clock shouldn't be that intensive), you'll at least want one ARM V8-A core to manage the menial tasks and power up the 32/64 bit cores.

    49. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Don't wet your jammies.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    50. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to make the argument that A35 is more efficient than A7 too, but on ARM's website not the pdf they claimed numbers when running 32bit code on the A35!

      So one can still follow Tough Love's argument that 32bit is better, if you're only using a 64bit CPU in 32bit mode.
      But my opinion is maybe it doesn't matter that much. The Apple core may be super efficient (architecture and process) so that it beats an existing 32bit CPU even though it could do even better, that's a possibility.
      As another guy says, Apple optimizes its compilers and toolchains for its 64bit ARM CPU! 32bit ARM is on life support at best.

      Maybe the watch uses the APFS file system.
      I drop the maybe : it switched to APFS last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_File_System
      Reading from the file system should be more efficient on a 64bit CPU.

    51. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A35 is little used, they said it would be useful on low end phones but they all use A53 or were using A7 on the lowest end.
      Qualcomm went with the extra-mature 28nm process too, and the old A7 they have years of experience implementing.
      Even if the A35 were theoretically +5% better or +10% better this might matter less than a better physical implementation.

    52. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is certified by the FDA for AFib and ECG.

      Certified under the FDA's De Novo application process. Apparently, some people didn't watch the Watch 4 presentation very closely. De Novo is used for groundbreaking devices and drugs that are unique in their product class, first-of-their-kind stuff.

    53. Re:what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Don't wet your jammies.

      Didn't you say "bye" several posts ago?

      About as truthful as the rest of your drivel, I guess.

    54. Re:what I don't even by man2525 · · Score: 1

      Caffeine sensitivity is a big one. Abnormal rhythms can last two days in some people after drinking two cups of coffee.

    55. Re:what I don't even by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      It's not like healthy thirty- and forty-somethings get ECGs that often.

      Is that another sign of the American medical system? I mean an ECG and stress ECG is something recommend and provided free in many coutries around the world and is highly recommeneded to do as part of a medical checkup every 10 years after you become an adult.

      Did mine 3 days ago.

    56. Re:what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      So sorry, you did wet your jammies.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    57. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Hello! More fact free drivel, I see. You just canâ(TM)t bring yourself to actually end the conversation. So why did you write âoeBye.â?

    58. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I suppose you don't see any irony. Interesting specimen of something.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    59. Re:what I don't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually it isn't recommended as a routine thing until you're in your 50s. Otherwise it's only done if you're in for treatment, which Americans are loathe to do unless they're basically dying.

    60. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      I'm not the one who wrote "bye." I'll haunt you so long as it amuses me, and I'm not going to pretend any different.

    61. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Do you also sneak around at night and peer into windows?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    62. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      You're projecting again.

    63. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I'm not the one who said they stalk people on the internet for fun.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    64. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      I'm not the one who said they stalk people on the internet for fun.

      Neither am I. I said "I'll haunt you so long as it amuses me." I can't stalk someone who's continually engaging with me in this particular set of article comments, and correcting your particular bullshit is a riot. You're free to piss off to a different topic and engage in interference-free idiocy if you'd like. I'm not the one that announced "bye" and then stuck around to engage even more.

    65. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Bye. (In case you still don't understand, that means please do the internet a favor and crawl back into your burrow.)

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    66. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Bye. (In case you still don't understand, that means please do the internet a favor and crawl back into your burrow.)

      Bye is not a command. And you're incapable of staying away.

    67. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I invite you to crawl back into your hole. Bye, in advance.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    68. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      I invite you to crawl back into your hole. Bye, in advance.

      You really don't get it, do you?

      You say bye, you go.

      I don't say bye, I stay. And I keep replying to you. FOREVER.

    69. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I know, you're nuts. As if nobody has ever pointed that out to you before.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    70. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      And yet you keep replying. With wrong information.

    71. Re: what I don't even by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      So I was not the first to point out to you that you are nuts.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    72. Re: what I don't even by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      No that observation is unique to you. But both TheFakeTimCook and I agree that you`re Looney Toons, so I suppose that you`re simply projecting yet again.

  7. Network limits by Andy+Smith · · Score: 1

    Watch must be on the same cellular network as your iPhone, but only limited networks support Watch. Here in the U.K. it was only EE, but now Apple has added Vodafone â" officially the most complained about network provider. Those of us who have chosen good network providers other than EE are locked out of Watch.

  8. It's real and it's spectacular by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    64 bit on a watch? Does this thing access more than 2 GiB of addressable memory?

    64 bit is not just about memory, but other things also - and it puts it in line with all the phones so the 32-bit path is closed down.

    And ECG. There's no way in hell this thing is remotely certified

    And yet, it is. The heart rate monitor itself has proven to be as good as a dedicated heart rate monitor... if you watch the video it'd not like it's taking an ECG all the time, the user triggers an ECG and you get a 30 second reading (which you can then examine or share a PDF of with your doctor or anyone else). I think that's part of how they are able to make it reliable enough to get certified.

    I don't know if Apple originally planned on all this latent health monitoring when they first cooked up the watch, but I think they have a winning strategy here. If my mom will wear one I'd get it for her, to have the fall detection and early warning of heart issues... heck I am finally upgrading my original first gen Apple Watch because I really would like warnings about my own heart rate!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      >64 bit is not just about memory, but other things also...

      What things? That actually matter to a watch?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Faster processing, more instructions on single cycles
      = less processing time / less cycles
      = better battery life / smaller battery ...

    3. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      So firstly 64 bit. What? But only x86 that was massively register starved in 32 bit mode.

      As for the ECG you're right , but it only works when you touch the watch with your other hand. I'd assumed naively that any ECG watch was a watch that monitored ECG just on your wrist, not a watch with a rather standard single channel ECG bolted on. My mistake though. But I don't think you'll find it very useful.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1
      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Yes but it's thinner while keeping the same battery life, and also providing longer sport use (six hours vs. four). It doesn't need to be any faster, when being able to use a smaller battery for the same functions is probably even more valuable.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    6. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the point, for most use-cases things don't need to be faster, but if they are faster in the background it might save battery etc.

      Take laptops... I have pretty much upgraded every year to the latest i5 or i7 model since the first of them (I'm not paying so why not). I haven't really noticed the incremental speed increase each year for most of my usage, as it's not processor constrained. What I have noticed is the devices getting: smaller, lighter, longer battery life, cooler, quieter....

    7. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Yes but it's thinner while keeping the same battery life

      Thinner while still being gigantic. Same battery life, which is still too little. Little wonder that Apple keeps losing share in this category.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      That's the point, for most use-cases things don't need to be faster...

      So your point is, this has a faster processor even though it doesn't need to be faster? Um I think I get it, it's like the Emperor has no clothes right?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    9. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      So firstly 64 bit. What?

      For the Apple Watch specifically, the main benefits I can see would be that compilers and the hardware designs are all well tuned to 64 bit support now, not spending as much time on 32 bit... remember the chip architecture shares a lot of things with the iPhone chip designs. The watch generally is processing a lot of floating point data as well so the extra accuracy may be helpful there.

      As for the ECG....I don't think you'll find it very useful.

      I don't actually care that much about that aspect myself, but it might be nice for someone with heart issues to have more regular readings to help doctors diagnose them better.

      I personally am much more into the detection of heart issues, which has already even with the current Apple Watch saved a number of people with very serious heart conditions they had no idea about. Heck, even the fall detection can be a nice feature for most anyone if you are outdoors exercising regularly.

      I also really like the Heart Study app, I think it's a great idea to collect heart behavior from a huge number of real-world subjects along with some idea of what they are doing, to build up a better behavior of what healthy even means for the heart...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    10. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The important part is IF it is faster for the same energy use:

      I have to get 100 miles in 1 hour for a meeting.
      I can do it in a car that does 100mph running at 10mpg using 10 gallons.
      OR
      I can do it in a car that does 200mph running at 10mpg or 100mph at 20mpg...
      So i can either get there twice as fast and use my spare 30 minutes for something... or get there in the same time and save 5 gallons.

      The person I'm meeting won't notice either way.

    11. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by shilly · · Score: 1

      How on earth would an ECG work off a single hand?! A circuit needs to be complete, which implies both arms.

    12. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      And may I point out, Apple claims "up to" 18 hours. You can be sure it is less. Reality: if you have this watch then you need to charge it multiple times per day, and get used to wearing a brick for those times you forget. These guys have the right idea.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    13. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      That's the point, for most use-cases things don't need to be faster...

      So your point is, this has a faster processor even though it doesn't need to be faster? Um I think I get it, it's like the Emperor has no clothes right?

      Some Apple employee with mod points hates the idea of Apple with no clothes? Maybe design a better product then.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    14. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      What things? That actually matter to a watch?

      Address space virtualization and security.

      Frankly, everyone is doing 64 bit SOCs just to piss you off. It's a giant conspiracy. I bet that you can't name one modern chip design firm designing new 32 bit SOCs.

    15. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I bet that you can't name one modern chip design firm designing new 32 bit SOCs.

      You lose. Qualcomm's latest smartwatch SoC uses Cortex A7, a 32 bit processor.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    16. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes but it's thinner while keeping the same battery life

      Thinner while still being gigantic. Same battery life, which is still too little. Little wonder that Apple keeps losing share in this category.

      And yet, they not only have the best-selling Smartwatch, they have the best-selling watch, PERIOD!

    17. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      And may I point out, Apple claims "up to" 18 hours. You can be sure it is less. Reality: if you have this watch then you need to charge it multiple times per day, and get used to wearing a brick for those times you forget. These guys have the right idea.

      Unlike all the other LYING OEMs, Apple has a reputation for being the ONLY tech-device manufacturer that even APPROACHES their st stead battery life.

      You need to do less Spewing of that Bile, and do some more Research.

    18. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heck I am finally upgrading my original first gen Apple Watch because I really would like warnings about my own heart rate!

      You have time. It will be 2 years before another D is in the White House.

    19. Re: It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol wrong - most people get 2-3 days

    20. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I bet that you can't name one modern chip design firm designing new 32 bit SOCs.

      You lose. Qualcomm's latest smartwatch SoC uses Cortex A7, a 32 bit processor.

      Proving once again the Qualcomm is a fucking joke when it comes to microcontrollers/SoCs.

    21. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      So firstly 64 bit. What? But only x86 that was massively register starved in 32 bit mode.

      As for the ECG you're right , but it only works when you touch the watch with your other hand. I'd assumed naively that any ECG watch was a watch that monitored ECG just on your wrist, not a watch with a rather standard single channel ECG bolted on. My mistake though. But I don't think you'll find it very useful.

      It still has the optical heart rate sensor. This is just a more accurate sensor. They explained in the keynote: when you touch your finger to the crown, it completes a circuit with the back of the watch. That's how it is able to read the WAVEFORM, rather than just the RATE.

      That's the same reason that that $99 ECG device has TWO pads, one for a finger on your left hand, and the other for the right hand.

      tl;dr signal acquisition (especially of very small signals) requires both a "positive" and a "ground".

    22. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 3, Informative

      How on earth would an ECG work off a single hand?! A circuit needs to be complete, which implies both arms.

      That's why you have to touch the crown with a finger on the opposite hand from the one on which you are wearing the watch. The back of the case forms one side of the circuit, and your finger is the other.

      They explained that in the Keynote. Pretty clever, actually.

    23. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Without Qualcomm, Android would not be grinding Apple down towards single digit market share right now.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    24. Re: It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1
      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    25. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      Apple has 17% of the smartwatch market, with Xiaomi looking set to take the lead in the near future. That is, 83% of smartwatch buyers today do not want Apple.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    26. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple has 17% of the smartwatch market, with Xiaomi looking set to take the lead in the near future. That is, 83% of smartwatch buyers today do not want Apple.

      Source?

      Apple grew its market share by 4% from 13 to 17%.
      Xiaomi grew its market share by 1.8% from 13.3% to 15.1%.

      That's called falling behind, not taking the lead.

    27. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Without Qualcomm, Android would not be grinding Apple down towards single digit market share right now.

      Well that's not what's happening. Going from 13 to 17% marketshare is the opposite of being ground down towards single digit share.

      Odd.

    28. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Apple had 61% of the smartwatch market in 2015 and 17% today. That's what I call falling behind, not taking the lead.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    29. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

      Apple had 61% of the smartwatch market in 2015 and 17% today. That's what I call falling behind, not taking the lead.

      Imagine that - it essentially had no competition in 2015. Apple is the market leader now. It is growing faster than Xiaomi now. It introduced a new generation product now. How is Xiaomi "set to take the lead" exactly? You can't fall behind people that you're pulling away from.

    30. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Without Qualcomm, Android would not be grinding Apple down towards single digit market share right now.

      You are pathetic.

      GTFO

    31. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Apple had 61% of the smartwatch market in 2015 and 17% today. That's what I call falling behind, not taking the lead.

      Imagine that - it essentially had no competition in 2015. Apple is the market leader now. It is growing faster than Xiaomi now. It introduced a new generation product now. How is Xiaomi "set to take the lead" exactly? You can't fall behind people that you're pulling away from.

      Really, The Hate is strong with ToughLove.

      He is as stupid as he is ugly.

      Don't waste your time on him.

    32. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, "no reasonable person would believe our advertising" is still my favorite phrase.

      You, sir, are not a reasonable person as you believe their advertising.

      As a reminder, i am only repeating what APL said. I am not the one flaming you.

    33. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      Doofus, Apple went from 61% share of the smarwatch market to 17% today. That actually happened. I would not be surprised if Apple hits single digits by this time last year. This butt ugly power hungry product update practically guarantees it.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    34. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Single digits.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    35. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Doofus, Apple went from 61% share of the smarwatch market to 17% today. That actually happened. I would not be surprised if Apple hits single digits by this time last year. This butt ugly power hungry product update practically guarantees it.

      This actually happened.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    36. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      Linux dominates the smartwatch category now, just like it dominates the handset market and the tablet market. Does that make you angry? Does it make you want to rage post on the internet?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    37. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      tl;dr signal acquisition (especially of very small signals) requires both a "positive" and a "ground".

      That's what was confusing me! I figured they had two electrodes and were using some sort of ECG field measurement. I have managed to get a signal out of the noise floor from as far down the arm as a bicep with tlectrodes 35mm apart, but it wasn't very good.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    38. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tugrik · · Score: 1

      I'm an afib/sinus-bradycardia patient and a beta tester for the AliveCor / Kardia apple-watch band product they sell. I had the condition most of my life but it wasn't properly diagnosed until I started playing with home EKG equipment and noticed the trends. I've been using the AliveCor watch band produc t (and the separate unit they sell) for a few years now. It has been an invaluable asset in my afib care, and the data from it (and the multiple events / cardioversions over the years) have provided good research data for helping treat these conditions. My health has directly improved from being able to detect episodes early and get them corrected before they get to the point they require electro-cardioversion.

      I don't know if they bought/licensed AliveCor's tech or if they're going to simply market-crush them (hopefully the former), but I'm extremely grateful to see it being built into the watch itself. The external band-mounted unit and associated app burn through the battery life of the current Apple Watch, giving me about 3/4 of a day or less before it needs recharging; i bring one of the little pocket-chargers with me as a result. It also means I have to wear only the special AliveCor band that hosts the two-pin sensor, which not only limits my options but screws up my skin a bit (the sports-rubber type bands make my skin break out sometimes). I'm hoping the native sensor will mean longer battery life with the same or better levels of functionality. I'll find out soon enough.

      My cardiologist loves the extra data; I can catch every event as it happens as well as monitor trends over time. It helps pick better treatment paths and develop better behavior patterns that will avoid triggering my afib as well as keep me on a better self-improvement path. Putting this on the wrists of huge numbers of people will only improve this kind of research -- and it'll also help early detection for those with the same genetic conditions I have, and get things treated before they become life threatening.

      In addition, the fall sensor is a wonderful thing for those of us with elderly parents with health issues. My mother suffered a pretty severe stroke that she luckily survived with most of her faculties intact -- though she has notable short-term memory issues now. I got her the previous series Apple Watch with cellular because while she forgets her phone all the time, she _always_ remembers to put on her watch when she wakes up. It gives us a communications path to her when she gets confused or separated while out on daily tasks, and lets us find her (with the 'find my friends' app) if she wanders. As her mobility issues increase, she's also more prone to falling, so I'm definitely upgrading her to this new watch -- the fall sensor will be a great addition. If she goes down and we're not right there to see and help, it can alert us. That's a huge increase in peace of mind.

      I hope that the competitors pick up on this and 2-pin EKG / fall sensors / other-health-monitors become more and more standard across the board.

    39. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The heart rate monitor itself has proven to be as good as a dedicated heart rate monitor.

      Oh boy, that is the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time.

    40. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Linux dominates the smartwatch category now, just like it dominates the handset market and the tablet market.

      Weren't you talking about Xiaomi being "set to take the lead?" Oh wait, we're moving the goalposts again.

      Does that make you angry? Does it make you want to rage post on the internet?

      Asks the man-child who's been posting in the Apple product announcement threads for ten and a half hours.

      You're projecting.

    41. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by necro81 · · Score: 1

      The watch generally is processing a lot of floating point data as well so the extra accuracy may be helpful there.

      It may also not be about increased precision. It is pretty common in floating-point architectures to allow a 64-bit FPU to perform operations on two 32-bit operands in parallel in the same amount of time. So instead of doing a 64-bit x 64-bit multiplication in some number of clock cycles, it can do two (32-bit x 32-bit) multiplications in the same time. A lot of that can be handled by compiler optimization, too, so that the programmer doesn't even need to plan for it.

    42. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

      Doofus, Apple went from 61% share of the smarwatch market to 17% today.

      From a majority of a "smartwatch" market incluing Apple and Samsung -- but not Fitbit and others who made "basic wearables" -- to 17% today where there is almost no such thing such thing as "basic wearables" because the survivors have all moved into "smartwatches." Odd how you insist upon starting in 2015, versus 2016 (10.8%) or 2014 (0% - no Apple watch). Perhaps because in 2015 Apple and Samsung were the only game in town, and Samsung was a distant also-ran.

      I would not be surprised if Apple hits single digits by this time last year.

      Can't hit single digits by this time last year because, like, that already happened, and Apple's market share increased from 10.8% in 2016. Do try to keep up.

      This butt ugly power hungry product update practically guarantees it.

      Apple will be shipping its updated product back in time? Wow! Triple digit sales growth here we come! /s

    43. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Linux dominates the smartwatch category now, just like it dominates the handset market and the tablet market.

      Weren't you talking about Xiaomi being "set to take the lead?" Oh wait, we're moving the goalposts again.

      Does that make you angry? Does it make you want to rage post on the internet?

      Asks the man-child who's been posting in the Apple product announcement threads for ten and a half hours.

      You're projecting.

      I warned you not to engage. He's actually clinically insane.

      But that was a good retort, anyway... ;-)

      Kudos!

    44. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      tl;dr signal acquisition (especially of very small signals) requires both a "positive" and a "ground".

      That's what was confusing me! I figured they had two electrodes and were using some sort of ECG field measurement. I have managed to get a signal out of the noise floor from as far down the arm as a bicep with tlectrodes 35mm apart, but it wasn't very good.

      Do you know about using chopper-stabilized amplifiers, or Autocorrelation?

      These techniques both work pretty well to retrieve signals that are actually BELOW the noise-floor. In fact, that's how Cellphones are even able to WORK at all! If you look at the raw signal to noise ratio, you'll just shake your head and go "no way"...

    45. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      Oh, look who engaged, Mr Congeniality himself. You Apple bellycrawlers break me up.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    46. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Do you know about using chopper-stabilized amplifiers

      Yes. They have incredibly low input offset voltage and amazing DC characteristics. Both of which aren't useful for ECG signals. ECG has no DC bias itself but also the electrolytic cell formed with your skin an electrodes gives a large DC bias to the signal which needs to be removed.

      So, chopper amps aren't the right tool for the job.

      or Autocorrelation? These techniques both work pretty well to retrieve signals that are actually BELOW the noise-floor. In fact, that's how Cellphones are even able to WORK at all!

      Sounds like you're talking about the spread spectrum code division multiple access schemes where you cross correlate with the chipping code. It can get stuff many db below the noise floor. Unfortunately, my heart isn't multiplied by a high frequency chipping code, so that kind of thing is not likely to work.

      You might be able to get heart rate from well below the noise floor by cross correlating with likely ECG signals at various beating rates and heavily bandpass filtering, but that would be rate only, not any kind of ECG trace.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    47. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Do you know about using chopper-stabilized amplifiers

      Yes. They have incredibly low input offset voltage and amazing DC characteristics. Both of which aren't useful for ECG signals. ECG has no DC bias itself but also the electrolytic cell formed with your skin an electrodes gives a large DC bias to the signal which needs to be removed.

      So, chopper amps aren't the right tool for the job.

      or Autocorrelation? These techniques both work pretty well to retrieve signals that are actually BELOW the noise-floor. In fact, that's how Cellphones are even able to WORK at all!

      Sounds like you're talking about the spread spectrum code division multiple access schemes where you cross correlate with the chipping code. It can get stuff many db below the noise floor. Unfortunately, my heart isn't multiplied by a high frequency chipping code, so that kind of thing is not likely to work.

      You might be able to get heart rate from well below the noise floor by cross correlating with likely ECG signals at various beating rates and heavily bandpass filtering, but that would be rate only, not any kind of ECG trace.

      Chopper stabilized amps also are useful for high-accuracy, high-gain applications. So yes, they could be useful.

      Autocorrelation might not be too useful, though. IIRC, it is best if you are trying to recover a modulated carrier wave.

    48. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      But I'm having fun. It's like pointing a wind-up robot at the end of your counter and watching it haplessly march off, with no ability to stop itself.

      TL says crazy shit.
      Rebut it with a link.
      TL either claims that it's all lies or moves the goalposts, and the onlookers share their heads.
      Repeat.

      The fun part is never thinks that he'll get called on the crazy shit, then loses it in short order when he is.

    49. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      You actually look for people talking about you under posts that are not yours? OMFG.

    50. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by shilly · · Score: 1

      Yeah I know. The OP I replied to did not

    51. Re:It's real and it's spectacular by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      But I'm having fun. It's like pointing a wind-up robot at the end of your counter and watching it haplessly march off, with no ability to stop itself.

      TL says crazy shit.
      Rebut it with a link.
      TL either claims that it's all lies or moves the goalposts, and the onlookers share their heads.
      Repeat.

      The fun part is never thinks that he'll get called on the crazy shit, then loses it in short order when he is.

      Just so you're having fun... ;-)

  9. You don't have to get a cellular model by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Watch must be on the same cellular network as your iPhone

    That's true but they still make watches without cell connections that can just piggy-back on your phone. Even without your phone they can still do most things the cellular watch can, they just can't make calls or do emergency notifications - they do include GPS.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  10. ROTFLMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I am going to spend that much money on a watch, then I will buy one that will last more than 3-5 years.

    I still have my first watch given to me over 40 years ago.

    You used to pay more for quality, things that would last you a life time, many would last generations , today you are paying high prices for what is effectively a throw away item.

    Apple, I am sorry, your products used to be upgradeable , repairable, they are all now throw away items. How is that good for the environment ?, its not.

    You are pricing yourself out of the market , I can't justify buying your watches, your phones (anymore), the ATV, your services (I can turn on the radio for free vs give you money), the physical CDs and DVDs I own, guess what they are not reliant on you having permission to distribute.

    I have been a Apple user since the 512KE, but if I am honest with myself I would say that I have probably bought my last Apple product. Hell I have $70 in my iTunes account for the last 3 years just sitting there (gift cards for my Birthday) and there has been nothing I want to spend it on in 3 years....

    I have been in dozens of Apple stores in 5-6 countries, and bought nothing, except at 1 Infinite loop where I bought some t-shirts (been 3 times and each time the store has been less worth while visiting, the t-shirts are just boring now vs "Siri, how do you get coffee stains out of a t-shit".

    Maybe Apple will learn what made then great again, but Steve can not come back this time, and if not then Apple, you had a good run, perhaps its over this time.

  11. Must have GREAT performance! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "a new 64-bit processor that offers performance up to two times faster performance"

    If it was just "a new 64-bit processor that is up to two times faster" (or "up to twice as fast") it wouldn't be nearly as impressive, would it?

    You would think someone in marketing might be expected to be able to use English competently, wouldn't you? (oh, and GET OFF MY LAWN!)

  12. 18 hr battery OMG by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Up to 18 hours battery life? WTF was Apple thinking. And exactly who is going to buy the spin that 64 bits is more energy efficient than 32. Just read Apple's own claims. Other manufactures aiming at more than 24 hours runtime = Apple will lose more market share.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have to charge it every day or every other day you might was well just charge it every day as part of a "daily routine". Apple was smart enough to figure that out. Until you can make it 7 days for a "weekly routine" there is little point in Apple focusing on sacrificing to extend the battery life.

    2. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Give me a break, this watch doesn't even last a day by Apple's own claim. What did Apple figure out again? Maybe how to spin a day as not a day.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably you don't wear it while you sleep.

    4. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Presumably you don't wear it while you sleep.

      Not this one, it doesn't give you that option.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      18 hours would cover most people's awake day so if you put it on to charge while you sleep you'll be fine... but then they advertise sleep monitoring as a feature?

      We need "one more thing..."

      Introducing the iBed Mattress topper. Charge your Apple wearables while worn, as you sleep. It also doubles as an electric blanket and monitors your body movements as well.

      Or the full iBedPlus Mattress with integrated smart speaker, lighting and full body massage... say "Goodnight Siri" and sleep well tonight before being woken by a gentle nudge at exactly the right temperature, lighting and point in your sleep cycle to start another great day.

    6. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They claim the same battery life as the previous model, which happily lasts 2-3 days.

      Apple is conservative with their battery estimates, unlike the rest of the industry.

    7. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      They claim the same battery life as the previous model, which happily lasts 2-3 days.

      Sure, in reserve mode, where you have to press the button to tell the time. In other words, it lasts 2-3 days when it is off. Apple's own guidelines say 45 minutes of app time on an 18 hour charge.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:18 hr battery OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey ya. apple didn't announce their vapour-ware charging pad today.
      I guess its not as easy to propriaterize the QI standard as apple thought it would be.

    9. Re:18 hr battery OMG by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      18 hours would cover most people's awake day so if you put it on to charge while you sleep you'll be fine... but then they advertise sleep monitoring as a feature?

      We need "one more thing..."

      Introducing the iBed Mattress topper. Charge your Apple wearables while worn, as you sleep. It also doubles as an electric blanket and monitors your body movements as well.

      Or the full iBedPlus Mattress with integrated smart speaker, lighting and full body massage... say "Goodnight Siri" and sleep well tonight before being woken by a gentle nudge at exactly the right temperature, lighting and point in your sleep cycle to start another great day.

      Ooh, a Haptic Mattress-Topper!

      Count me in!!!

    10. Re:18 hr battery OMG by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Presumably you don't wear it while you sleep.

      Not this one, it doesn't give you that option.

      I suggest you look into one of those whole-room wireless chargers.

      Works great, Plus you'll get a nice tan!

  13. That's It? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A watch and a couple of new phones?

    Dead Steve would be so proud.....

  14. Have they yet achieved 24 hours of battery life? by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    That is the single least impressive feature.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  15. Re:Have they yet achieved 24 hours of battery life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agree... it's a hard sell to promote the "life saving" and sleep monitoring features when you will have to take if off for a significant time to charge every day.

    Can the wireless charging work while it is on your wrist? I'm picturing an active mouse mat.
    Kinetic charging would be good for the sports mode.

  16. Mother of all Apple hardons! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The semen is already dripping out of my twitching member. The boiz at the local GAG meeting (Gay Apple Group) will be up for a lot of trippin' man-on-man action tonight! Rainbow Apple is the BOMB!

  17. Re:Have they yet achieved 24 hours of battery life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a series 2, and I can get well over the advertised 18 hours. For example, I've had it on my wrist for about 12 hours so far today, and the battery is still at 83%. This is with what I consider fairly typical use- checking time frequently, many notifications, email, etc.

  18. Does it monitor perspiration & breathing too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Won't be long till you idiots are wired up to a lie detector AND a tracking device.

    something something latte touchphone faggotry

  19. ECG only for USA? by Camembert · · Score: 2

    I currently live in Hong Kong and notice that the ECG feature is not mentioned on the local Apple site. Probably it needs to pass local certification and regulation to be activated wherever it is being sold. I do assume that the feature can be turned on remotely whenever it is certified for local use.
    A pity really.

    1. Re:ECG only for USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be surprised if Apple could or wanted to disable features on a per-market basis.

      In the US at least it is not the functionality but the marketing that is regulated. If it is the same elsewhere and Apple does not have certification for marketing purposes, it can still sell the product with the feature enabled, but not market that feature.

      The legal question then is whether marketing in another jurisdiction is actionable, since here the features of the watch are known from marketing in other places like the US. US courts have no problem with that, but yours? I don't know.

      In any case, with Asian governments it is not the law but the permission of the government that matters. I imagine Apple is playing nice in that respect.

      Indeed, the government prefers a situation where a successful product has a legal flaw; that gives them a hostage in any negotiations with the company. To be effective, it requires the revenue stream be established, so investors will miss it when the government yanks it. That's what stands for mutual economic interdependence in some parts of the world.

  20. Re:Have they yet achieved 24 hours of battery life by evanh · · Score: 1

    Lol, I'm waiting for 6+ months per charge. It's useless if it can't be used as an actual watch.

  21. Compatible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do the Apple watches play nice with Android phones or tablets? I assume not. I have no interest in owning an iPhone but some of the health-monitoring aspects of the Apple watch are intriguing.

    1. Re:Compatible? by Camembert · · Score: 1

      Afaik, it only works with an iphone.

  22. Re:It's real and it's spectacula by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    Yeah I know. The OP I replied to did not

    Fortunately, the signal-of-Interest is VERY low frequency, allowing for some pretty healthy low-pass filtering. That, plus they no doubt can subtract all the 50/60 Hz hum off your finger, from, well everywhere.

    It's quite nice; but I'm personally waiting for a non-Invasive Glucometer that actually works...

    Then they'll get my $500...