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Greece Uses High-Tech Drones To Fight Tax Evasion In Holiday Hotspots (channelnewsasia.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the eyes-in-the-sky dept.

Greece is reportedly using drones to fly over boats running day trips on the Aegean in an effort to crack down on rampant tax evasion at holiday hotspots. Channel NewsAsia reports: With the black economy by some accounts representing about a quarter of national output in a country which depends hugely on tourism, Greek authorities are turning to high-tech to stamp out undeclared earnings. Finance ministry tax inspectors and the coast guard launched the drones project on Santorini, an island highly popular with tourists, to check on whether operators offering short day trips were issuing legal receipts to all their passengers. Based on data from the drones, authorities were able to establish how many passengers were on board, then cross-referenced it with declared receipts and on-site inspections. Nine tourist vessels checked were alleged to have not issued a number of receipts, totaling about $29,460. Their owners now face fines.

71 comments

  1. Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by kenwd0elq · · Score: 4, Informative

    There shouldn't be anything surprising that Greece would use drones to find tax cheats. Remember, they were among the early adopters to use Google Earth to find backyard swimming pools that didn't appear on the tax rolls. Greeks have a very "Catch me if you can!" attitude toward their own tax collectors.

    1. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tax evasion in the country was a key contributor to their debt and economic collapse. Hopefully both the government and the people have learnt their lesson.

    2. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Was it? Or was it corruption? Or was it both? I tbink both.

    3. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by PopeRatzzo · · Score: 1

      Don't feed the trolls.

      Unfortunately, Greece was the early birthplace and will be the early deathplace of capitalism. They are a somewhat isolated country (few natural resources) in a first-world region and will serve as a testbed of many things to come that will fail. These drones are just a gasping breath of the government trying to make due what is right--namely taxing enough of one of only two industries that can keep the country afloat--and collect enough revenues to sustain the countries.

      This is in reality no worse than the IRS auditing credit card companies for fraud. I have family in Greece. Trust me. The people running the tourism industry are the one percenters. They need to pay their fair share.

    4. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by kiviQr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not tax evasion but high taxes that push people to gray market. Especailly that people don't see a point to contribute their tax share since they don't get much out of it. Most of money disapears with bureaucracy and goverment. This is pattern well established around post socialistic countries.

    5. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by jezwel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      people don't see a point to contribute their tax share since they don't get much out of it

      , That's not very social of these people is it? The whole point is that socialism is like insurance - everyone contributes so that those that need it can draw down on it.

      This is pattern well established around post socialistic countries.

      ahh so this is what happens when people stop:
      a - contributing their fair share (tax evasion), and
      b - not taking more than they should (corruption).

      Pretty sure that's called 'greed'.

    6. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by rojash · · Score: 1

      Peeps would never voluntarily contribute to society. It is upto the govt. to milk them.

    7. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are a somewhat isolated country (few natural resources) in a first-world region

      I can think of a couple of other countries (and some tax havens) that are similar to Greece in terms of size, climate & natural resources, however those nations have burgeoning economies.

      Secondly, I don't think that part of the world is as first world as you think. Greece didn't belong at the same table as the rest of the founding EU members, but what else can you do when you have a hostile (and larger, and more powerful) enemy who routinely violates your borders? (Turkey)

      Greece's economy was horribly (and deliberately) mismanaged for several decades: early retirement, jobs for life, and yes, corruption. (We) Greeks living abroad saw the signs many years ago, knowing the easy lifestyle was unsustainable. Indeed, many of us "alodapoi" (Greeks abroad) were mocked for the hours we put into our careers, and the comparatively little time we spent on recreation. They ain't laughing now. (The young are leaving Greece in droves in search of jobs.)

      A non-trivial portion of the adult population was complicit in the dysfunction. I feel sorry for those who weren't but are now suffering as Greece tightens her collective belt in order to reduce the national debt and get to some normalcy. I can't quite bring myself to say "kala na pathoune" ... but I will say ... "ti perimenate"?

    8. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taking more than you "should" is not corruption. Tax evasion is corruption. Taking more than you "should" is just ensuring you receive the maximum legal ROI and every sane person would do it if they had the brains. Capitalism works well because of evolutionary instinct. Long after the scarcity of goods has been done away with by industrialization, automation, and AI the human instinct will still be finding ways to sabotage your lovely socialist society. Capitalism will most likely be with us for the next million years or until we kill ourselves by destroying our environment and are replaced by much smarter cockroaches.

    9. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tax evasion in the country was a key contributor to their debt and economic collapse. Hopefully both the government and the people have learnt their lesson.

      The key contributor to Jimmy's death was the hole in his body that he bled out of. Never mind that Joey shot him, it was the hole and the bleeding. I hope Jimmy learned his lesson.

    10. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not tax evasion but high taxes that push people to gray market.

      Those two are part of mutually reinforcing cycle:

      1. People cheat on taxes, paying less than they should.

      2. Government doesn't collect enough revenue.

      3. Government increases taxes.

      4. GO TO 1.

    11. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      everyone contributes so that those that need it can draw down on it.

      In the long run that always fails because eventually everyone moves into draw down mode and nobody wants to work anymore to contribute. It happened in the Soviet Union, it happened in the hippie communes here in the United States beginning in the 1960s and it's happening now in Venezuela. Margaret Thatcher, the prime minister of the UK during the 1980s, said it best when she observed that, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

    12. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capitalism will most likely be with us for the next million years or until we kill ourselves by destroying our environment and are replaced by much smarter cockroaches.

      The way things are going right know, the human race isn't going to make it much past the 23d century and neither will most other complex life. The Sun is even now becoming hotter and will be hot enough to boil the oceans and sterilize all life on the planet in 1.5 billion years or so no matter what we do. Although long before that happened surface temperatures, helped by our fossil fuel burning, would become too high to produce food except for perhaps a very small population of well equipped and technologically advanced humans who probably wouldn't be numerous or diverse enough to continue a viable gene pool. In any case, there probably won't be enough time for complex life to evolve again on Earth between the end of the current extinction event and the date when the Sun boils the oceans.

    13. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can think of a couple of other countries (and some tax havens) that are similar to Greece in terms of size, climate & natural resources, however those nations have burgeoning economies.

      Feel free to name them.

      Those that I can think of either have an equally bad economy or they have an economy propped up by money laundering and large crime syndicates.

      So, you know, without getting what country you are thinking about it is kinda hard to take what you are saying at face value.

    14. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not tax evasion but high taxes that push people to gray market.

      If companies didn't evade taxes in the US the taxes could be halved without reducing the amount the Government had to work with.

      Tax evasion is done because they can, regardless of what the taxes are at.
      The only solution is enforcement.

    15. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Acquiring that debt (using bookkeeping trickery on the national level) broke them. Politicians seeing no further than "getting money this year makes me look good", never mind that it must be paid back. They kept doing this for decades. Of course, banks and EU officials were stupid to allow this too.

      And then, using the Euro really painted them into a corner. Greece used to have their own currency. They did not collect much taxes, instead they printed some more money every year - effectively taxing all circulating and stored money without having to send taxmen anywhere or count anybody's money or money flows. Controlled inflation works well, as long as one doesn't overdo it Zimbabwe-style.

      But they could not print more euros, so they kept acquiring more loans instead. And inevitably crashed. Now they have to tax, but they are not used to tax much, and the people are not used to being taxed either. They hide earnings from authorities not used to finding them . . .

      Having the loans refused 30 years ago would be better. Less money, but no crippling debt.

    16. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Not tax evasion but high taxes that push people to gray market. Especailly that people don't see a point to contribute their tax share since they don't get much out of it. Most of money disapears with bureaucracy and goverment. This is pattern well established around post socialistic countries.

      Tax evasion means that, for a given level of government revenue, nominal rates must be higher.
      Higher nominal rates means, for a given level of risk of getting caught, tax evasion is more rewarding.

      It's a circular problem, one in which unfortunately Greece is stuck in a bad attractor. There is also a virtuous version of the cycle, where effectively cracking down on evasion allows lower nominal rates, which in turn lowers the incentive to evade. It's debatable whether it's actually possible to drag Greece out of the bad attractor and into the good one, especially given that some people believe that it's become embedded in Greek culture.

      And yes, no one is claiming that Greece's government has been a paragon of efficiency and integrity, or that its spending choices have been ideal. But that's kind of apart from how revenue is generated. You don't have to agree with any of that (either entirely or on the margin) to see that the tax collection problem is really hurting them.

    17. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people don't see a point to contribute their tax share since they don't get much out of it

      ,

      That's not very social of these people is it? The whole point is that socialism is like insurance - everyone contributes so that those that need it can draw down on it.

      This is pattern well established around post socialistic countries.

      ahh so this is what happens when people stop:
      a - contributing their fair share (tax evasion), and
      b - not taking more than they should (corruption).

      Pretty sure that's called 'greed'.

      This is why socialism will never work.

    18. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We need this in Texas where all the Illegal Aliens do roofing jobs, landscaping, or other such jobs and don't ever pay taxes but instead send it all to their families in Mexico. US businesses which do have to pay taxes can't compete with the cheap services. So you either have to beat them or join them and then everyone loses.

    19. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luxembourg / Singapore / Switzerland / Norway

    20. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US has the exact same problem with business taxes. The more you raise them, the more companies file offshore. If you can't afford to do this, I guess you cheat. And so the government raises taxes to get more of their share and the cycle continues...

    21. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tax evasion in the country was a key contributor to their debt and economic collapse.

      That's BS. If anything it means more money available to fuel the country economy, less money lost due to gov mismanagement and corruption.

    22. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      I generally don't respond to AC's, but this is simply nonsense. There hasn't been any "global warming" since 2000, and essentially zero sea level rise since 1900. While disaster is always a possibility, it's hardly a probability and certainly NOT a certainty. I would wager real money that the global climate will be COOLER by 2050 - except I won't be alive to collect my winnings.

      Not even the inevitable expansion of the Sun as it evolves into a red giant is a certain disaster; we already KNOW HOW to move the Earth. We just don't have the technology - yet. By the time we need to move the Earth to orbit Jupiter, we'll be able to do that.

    23. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by kiviQr · · Score: 1

      Interesting b/c tax evasion is quite popular across different systems. Just check with Apple, Google, and Trump. Here we just call it being smart(?) not greed. Think about charity that has 2% effectiveness (98% goes towards opperating cost) - would you donate?

    24. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people don't see a point to contribute their tax share since they don't get much out of it

      ,

      That's not very social of these people is it? The whole point is that socialism is like insurance - everyone contributes so that those that need it can draw down on it.

      To be fair, spying on people and stealing from them isn't particularly social either.

      This is pattern well established around post socialistic countries.

      ahh so this is what happens when people stop:
      a - contributing their fair share (tax evasion), and
      b - not taking more than they should (corruption).

      Pretty sure that's called 'greed'.

      If everyone stopped "paying" their "fair share" then the government wouldn't have the resources to oppress the people anymore. Also, no-one would be able to take more than they should because everyone will just have what they've been able to earn. You call it 'greed', I call it 'justice'.

    25. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Norway has huge amounts of oil and gas. They also have massive a ku ts of hydroelectric power. If you think tbey have no resources you are an ignorant moron.

    26. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well we can't all be intellectual giants such as yourself.

      What do you do for a living? I'm guessing you run a large division of a Fortune 500 company? Or perhaps you settled into academia and head a university department?

      Or perhaps you're a minor player in a small IT team somewhere. Do you find they don't really care when you ask to take annual leave? Why do you think that is?

      Tone down the attitude. You're not Stephen Hawking.

    27. Re: Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was surprised at this too. Tax evasion is the national pastime in Greece. Everyone, and I mean everyone, cheats on taxes in any way they can. Every house is half-built in order to avoid property taxes. Heck, governments frequently don't even try and collect taxes in election years. This is just some posturing to make it look like someone's doing something. Or maybe a cousin of the minister had a falling out, and he happens to operate a charter boat company.

    28. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Taxes enforced by aircraft"

    29. Re:Please Say You Weren't Surprised.... by jezwel · · Score: 1
      Apple and Google are minimising tax, which is legal. Sometimes what they do is found to be illegal - like the incentives that Ireland gave Apple - and which the EU took them to court over and won a chunk of dollars. The intention is to fly as close to the sun as possible without being burnt - it may not be social but they are usually trying to stay legal.

      Charities, well they usually start with good intentions and gradually the funds required for admin get bigger and bigger. Greed again you see.

      Funny you mentioned Trump though, as it looks like some of his early tax minimisation schemes are going to be tax evasion, which is fraud.

  2. Ancient Egypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Already the ancient Egyptians knew that a working state requires a working tax collection as its foundation.

    1. Re:Ancient Egypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So did the Ancient Greeks, who ruled Ancient Egypt during one of its dynasties.

      Mention this to any modern Greek and they'll blame the bad aspects of their culture on 400 years of Ottoman (Turkish) occupation.

      To an *extent* that's somewhat true: that part of the world was quite progressive (advanced, even) until they were attacked on all fronts: east (Ottomans / Turks) and west (the Fourth Crusade).

    2. Re:Ancient Egypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mention this to any modern Greek and they'll blame the bad aspects of their culture on 400 years of Ottoman (Turkish) occupation.

      In some sense they would be right as the Ottoman Empire started crumbling from within around the times of the invasion, both in values and corruption. Maybe those Golden Dawnists could focus more on history, restoration and renewal of Greek values and civilization instead of sinking into the immigration problems or the violence. Some people in the Greek Orthodox Church might be against that, though.

  3. If they want to collect tax on every transaction by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    they should probably eliminate cash. /s?

    Not that it would be a good thing, but total control of all transactions would ensure there wasn't a different economy.

  4. Re:Please help me understand this hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's different because shut up.

  5. Re:Please help me understand this hypocracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cool story bro.

  6. wonder how that would play if by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they spied on a member of the government

  7. They should fix their system first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Greece is deluding itself if it thinks it can tax its way out of its economic problems.

    The per capita GDP of Greece is less than every state in the US. Until you fix that you are just rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. And with a population growth rate of less than 0 things will only get worse.

    1. Re:They should fix their system first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's interesting how we recognize issues with population growth rates elsewhere, but not at home. The US requires around 750K immigrants per year to maintain zero growth, and yet we have a war against immigration. Worse, we have a faction of our country who have been conned into believing it is better to bring in those who are not hungry than it is to bring in those that are hungry and will work hard. Just what I need as an American, people coming in who are ready to take the positions above me instead of below me.

    2. Re:They should fix their system first by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You failed to show why having zero or even a positive growth is a goal you want to achieve in a world with fewer and fewer jobs.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:They should fix their system first by tsqr · · Score: 1

      The US requires around 750K immigrants per year to maintain zero growth

      The US has been receiving about 1 million legal immigrants per year since 2000.

      and yet we have a war against immigration.

      There is no war against legal immigration; see the link above. There is certainly an effort being made to reduce the number of people entering the country illegally, which has been modestly effective.

    4. Re:They should fix their system first by ai4px · · Score: 1

      I think the EU is in the same boat.... the PIGS are pulling down their economy, Germany is about the only country pulling the wagon. France and Nederlands are considering an exit. So here's the ultimate end of socialism.... as taxes get higher, people shrink from certain behaviors (or go to the black market). People have fewer children because they are expensive and that money is leaving the house in the form of tax. So the birth rate plummets and then there are no up and coming tax payers for the next generation. Tax revenue drops and so the politicians raise the rates. The worse it gets, the worse it really does get. Eventually they run out of money and start having to limit resources, or in the case of several socialist / communist attempts in the early 20th century, they forcefully remove undesirable elements from their society. After all, you don't have to share resources with people who don't exist. Since the "removal" of people is a recent open wound for EU so they won't exercise the genocide option again.

      So pretty much, the solution for the high taxes boils down to 3 solutions:
      1)Keep raising taxes and the cost of population emigrating to cheaper places or the birth rate going down.
      2)Import an artificial generation of tax payers. This seems to be what EU is presently doing, but it won't work.... they'll become muslim countries and forfiet their identity and culture.
      3)Reduce taxes and services offered... stop killing the golden goose. The problem with this is that while it is best for society, it is suicide for the politicans who count on buying votes with the public dole.

      It's a shame the EU is committing suicide. I wonder if future generations will look back and wonder if it was worth it?

    5. Re:They should fix their system first by trickyb · · Score: 1

      2)Import an artificial generation of tax payers. This seems to be what EU is presently doing, but it won't work....

      This, this, a thousand times this.
      The falling birthrate is a real problem; the current solution is to import large numbers of people from the third world, which is bone-headed:
      1) Either you import illiterate goat-herders from Civilwaristan, and hope that with a few months of training you can turn them into payroll clerks, dental hygienists, or IT support staff.
      2) Or you import the best doctors & engineers from Africa and Asia. Which is basically colonialism - but instead of taking mere diamonds and metals, you're taking their rarest, most precious resource: smart, highly-trained brains.

  8. The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and tried to then delve into RELIGION? Moron! The reason you shouldn't talk about EITHER Christianity NOR Islam is because you're a FUCKING MORON, not a scholar of EITHER SUBJECT. FUCK OFF TO A SISTER-FUCK, CLETUS!

  9. Re:The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypocr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does Islam get a pass with Atheists? That's what I'm asking.

    Atheists will defend Islam 100% on the grounds that they're very tolerant people while at the same time mock Christianity, and that's OK.

    Can you explain this?

  10. Santorini, an island highly popular with tourists, by rossdee · · Score: 1

    and time travelers

  11. Re:The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypocr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Can you explain this?

    Yes, it's because so many people are self-hating, nihilistic, Post-Modern Westerners who want to see the West collapse and believe radical Muslims.can help destroy the West, while Christianity is the bedrock and foundation of the West.

    Besides, Christians in general won't shoot you, mow you down with a truck as you walk down the street, abduct & rape your children and sell them into sex-slavery, or use car/truck bombs on you like Muslims will if you piss them off somehow, like refusing to convert to Islam.

    Cowards and bullies (aka SJWs and Progressives) always prefer victims that won't or can't fight back, just like all neo-Marxists.

  12. Re: The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypoc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Christians will not rape your children". Yeah, you nailed it!

    I see you forgot to do your homework. Or maybe you're just a pathetic ignorant.

  13. Re:If they want to collect tax on every transactio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eliminate the euro?
    No deal.

  14. Re: If they want to collect tax on every transacti by houghi · · Score: 1

    It would make tax evasion harder, not impossible. Opening a bank account in another country is pretty easy. There are also other ways.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  15. Defining 'should' by DrYak · · Score: 2

    Taking more than you "should" is not corruption. {...} Taking more than you "should" is just ensuring you receive the maximum legal ROI and every sane person would do it if they had the brains.

    staying within the bound of this "maximum legal" is what the parent poster meant.
    once you start getting more than what gour legally are allowed, then you are taking more than you should.

    (well, that or your law was brocken in the first place, letting people get more than what's reasonable to keep the system working - which was the opinion of some other EU countries about the situation in Greece)

    Capitalism works well because of evolutionary instinct.

    but only works for as long there is a clear immediate personal benefit for the individual (i.e.: it's a good way to.get people go to work to earn money)

    it doesn't work for long term goals (eg.: building roads and infrastructure), or to help cover risks (the "insurance" aspect as in public healthcare, etc.)

    that's why you always need some social programs in anh government.
    but those aids need to be well balanced, other wise the Tatcher remark about other people's money might end up applying.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  16. Re:If they want to collect tax on every transactio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should probably eliminate cash. /s?

    Not that it would be a good thing, but total control of all transactions would ensure there wasn't a different economy.

    In Greece we still have capital controls. (you can't make cash withdrawal above a certain amount each month)
    You're essentially forced to use electronic means of transferring funds aka ebanking and debit cards.
    Finally, the government forced all professionals(eg plumbers/doctors/lawyers/electricians) and shop owners to have debit/credit POS systems while simultaneously making it illegal to add an extra charge for paying via debit/credit card. Essentially they forced every business person to make a contract with a bank(POS providers) and pay them money and share with them their income (via the bank's cut from each POS transaction)

  17. Too much tax results in tax evasion. Surprise!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A friendly reminder that in Greece VAT is 24%, income tax 22% (until 20.000€ yearly income and then increases), and ~30% for social insurance (health and pension).
    With those numbers, wouldn't you try to hide money too?

  18. Re: The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypoc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, Muslims have formed large numbers of rape-gangs and are raping EU females on the streets in broad daylight, grooming and abducting children (of either sex) and selling them into sex slavery.

    Some priests of one denomination (Catholicism) were caught secretly molesting boys.

    They're totally equivalent. /s

    You're a moron.

    Not because you don't know all this full well, but because you do know and think that it's somehow justified (ends justifying the means ring a bell?) and that lying about it somehow means that you're a "virtuous person" and that it won't end up biting *you* and those you love in the ass, in some cases quite literally.

    How does that feel, to be an enabler of child-rapists and child sex slave traffickers? Do you look at your or your neighbor's kids and wonder how much they'd sell for and how tight their assholes are, you sick fuck?

  19. The targets are traiing hawks to intercept drones by recrudescence · · Score: 1

    Apparently. Just heard it from a greek colleague. I wanna see that live, hahah.

  20. Re:The story of a retard who couldn't spell hypocr by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    It doesn't. Islam is the same bullshit as any other religion.

    This settled, I'm pretty sure you can explain what the fuck this has to do with the economy of Greece.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  21. You might be overtaxed if.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might be overtaxing your citizens if it's worth the cost and time to fly droves over beaches to catch people in the act.

  22. Nickel and dime the small fry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Go after the real fucking tax cheats....that would be large corporations, instead of how much time and employees preparing to spend a day flying a drone over boats to get a paltry $20k or so?

    This is why people despise government ...the *real* cheats (corps), are complicit with the government, pay nothing in taxes....get gov subsidies even!!.. and are running the show. While the little guys get dinged for every cent.

    1. Re:Nickel and dime the small fry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go after the real fucking tax cheats....that would be large corporations, instead of how much time and employees preparing to spend a day flying a drone over boats to get a paltry $20k or so?

      This is why people despise government ...the *real* cheats (corps), are complicit with the government, pay nothing in taxes....get gov subsidies even!!.. and are running the show. While the little guys get dinged for every cent.

      Or, better yet, just eradicate taxation and government all together. This way, everyone pays their true fair share: 0, and everyone receives their true fair share from the pot: 0. The whole "schools, hospitals, and roads" argument for systemic theft is nonsense and the people who bleat it have rarely questioned their assumptions.

      Sadly, neither you nor I will have our way anytime soon. The system is the way it is for a reason and, were it radically changed, millions of mindless people will clamour for a return to "normal". You and small companies will continue to pay taxes, I and giant corporations will continue to pay very low or no taxes, and a small number of power-hungry criminals will rise to skim the fat off the top and spend the rest very inefficiently (and often counter-productively).

  23. Pantheon growing by The+Snazster · · Score: 1

    If there was never a Greek god of finance then it looks like they may be trying to rectify that oversight.

  24. Re:Too much tax results in tax evasion. Surprise!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All while demanding that no drop in what the government does for you.
    "I don't wanna pay taxes for roads" & "Why aren't the roads in better shape?"
    "I don't wanna pay taxes for education" & "Why can't I hire a skilled work force? And why is it hard to find a doctor?"

    Meanwhile, Sweden has higher tax rates across the board... The Netherlands are just a little less than Greece.

  25. Grease! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PAY DENBTS!

  26. Re:If they want to collect tax on every transactio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should probably eliminate cash. /s?

    Not that it would be a good thing, but total control of all transactions would ensure there wasn't a different economy.

    Six hundred and Sixty Six economists agree!

  27. Re:If they want to collect tax on every transactio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should probably eliminate cash. /s?

    Not that it would be a good thing, but total control of all transactions would ensure there wasn't a different economy.

    In Greece we still have capital controls. (you can't make cash withdrawal above a certain amount each month)
    You're essentially forced to use electronic means of transferring funds aka ebanking and debit cards.
    Finally, the government forced all professionals(eg plumbers/doctors/lawyers/electricians) and shop owners to have debit/credit POS systems while simultaneously making it illegal to add an extra charge for paying via debit/credit card. Essentially they forced every business person to make a contract with a bank(POS providers) and pay them money and share with them their income (via the bank's cut from each POS transaction)

    That's painfully authoritarian but there are still some opportunities for freedom here. A plumber doesn't have to report every job through his POS. He could take cash (or, when paper cash is eliminated, cryptocurrency) in exchange for some work. A lawyer has even more freedom as they don't have to worry about inventory reporting. The shop-owner thing is rough but items which are easier to transport and store could ultimately be pushed out into cryptographic peer-to-peer trading platforms (OpenBazaar is an early example but give it 10-15 years). There's also some opportunities around truly peer-to-peer taxi services although I don't know that solutions will mature before mandatory vehicle tracking becomes the norm.

    The future is an exciting, totalitarian dystopia, gradually shifting to one almighty world government. I believe individual liberty can exist in such a world but it's far from given and hiding effectively from the socialists will be key.

  28. Re: Too much tax results in tax evasion. Surprise! by jabuzz · · Score: 1

    Those numbers are broadly similar to most other European nations, that don't have rampant tax evasion. Greece is in a mess because of a combination of excessive social spending resulting from effextively bribes to the electorate for power (vote for me and yoh can retire at 50 if you are a hairdresser or baker for example) and insufficient funds to pay for it all because of widespread tax evasion that has become culturally acceptable. There is also some theft of assets by Nazi's that would significantly reduce the debt too (smart thing for Greece would have been to default on the debt to the Germans only to the appropriate tune and be very up fromt about why they where doing it). Noting further that the tax evasion thing in Greece is of result of the Nazi occupation, it was seen as civil resistance.

  29. Re: Too much tax results in tax evasion. Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I forgot to mention that the above numbers don't have a floor which is very important for individuals (vs corporations). You get taxed and pay social insurance as a business person even if you barely make 5.000€ - 10.000 a year in gross income. (yes the economy it's that fcked up). So tell me again how is someone supposed to take care of himself if nothing remains from his income? So in essence the numbers might be "broadly similar to the rest of the EU" (which I also doubt), but they get calculated from the 1st euro you take. There's no breathing space for new beginners or really small business people. And the return on it from the state is nothing.

  30. Re:Too much tax results in tax evasion. Surprise!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All while demanding that no drop in what the government does for you.
    "I don't wanna pay taxes for roads" & "Why aren't the roads in better shape?"
    "I don't wanna pay taxes for education" & "Why can't I hire a skilled work force? And why is it hard to find a doctor?"

    Meanwhile, Sweden has higher tax rates across the board... The Netherlands are just a little less than Greece.

    1. What Greece offers in return pales in comparison to what Sweden/Netherlands offer though. If we had such high returns we would be more happy to pay more taxes.
    2. The taxes are so high not because we have to pay those things you mention above but due to the demands of the loans. Even the IMF has admitted that the initial austerity program (which essentially continues) was bad and contributed more to the destruction of the economy than actually helping it. (which would in turn help the paying of the loans too).