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An Ex-NSA Hacker Who Has Organized the First-Ever Mac Security Conference (vice.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the first-of-its-kind dept.

Motherboard's Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai spoke with Patrick Wardle, the ex-NSA hacker who's organizing a security conference exclusively dedicated to Macs. Despite what Apple has famously promoted in the mid 2000s that Macs don't get "PC viruses," Mac computers do in fact have bugs, vulnerabilities, and even malware targeted at them. From the report: "People are peeking behind the curtain and realizing that the facade of Mac security is not always what it's cracked to be," Wardle told Motherboard in a phone interview. "Any company that designs software is going to have issues -- but Apple has perfected the art of a flawless public facade that masks many security issues." Wardle would know. After hacking primarily Windows computers at Fort Meade, for the last few years Wardle been finding several issues in MacOS, so many that he considers himself a "thorn" on Apple's side. But his conference is not an exercise in shaming or finger pointing, Wardle said he hopes to educate and teach people about Mac security, especially now that so many companies are using Macs as their corporate computers.

The conference is called Objective By the Sea, a wordplay on Objective-See, the name of Wardle's suite of free Mac security products (which is itself a wordplay on Apple's main programming language called Objective-C.) It will be held in Maui, Hawaii on November 3 and 4. The conference will be free for residents of Hawaii, and for patrons of Objective-See. That's why Wardle said he can't afford to pay for all speakers to attend, but he had no trouble finding people who wanted to participate. One group that doesn't want to come to Maui, at least for now, is Apple. Wardle said he reached out to the company, essentially offering it carte blanche to talk about whatever it wanted. But the company, so far, has not responded, according to him.

46 comments

  1. Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by MindPrison · · Score: 1

    ...and you can basically use the same "god mode" hack as with any other "Pc".

    Check this video out for details, but..ahem, use responsibly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
    1. Re:Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by JBMcB · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...and you can basically use the same "god mode" hack as with any other "Pc".

      Any other VIA C3 based PC, you mean. This hack was possible because the C3 has an embedded low power RISC core, probably for some kind of sleep state managed mode or something. With a "hidden," or possibly malformed instruction, you can wake it up and access protected memory by sending it instructions.

      The ostensible analog on the Mac side is the Intel MME. Only issue with that is the MME isn't really used on the Mac platform. It's included, but the Mac platform doesn't enable any of it's features (vPro management, mainly.)

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    2. Re:Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by mstrash · · Score: 0

      Like the Nano-ITX board that was promised to us a decade and a half ago? Sad.

      Mac needs to give up and die already. It is 2018 and Apple still has fanbois? They are better off focusing their efforts on BeOS.

    3. Re:Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Any other VIA C3 based PC, you mean. This hack was possible because the C3 has an embedded low power RISC core, probably for some kind of sleep state managed mode or something. With a "hidden," or possibly malformed instruction, you can wake it up and access protected memory by sending it instructions.

      The ostensible analog on the Mac side is the Intel MME. Only issue with that is the MME isn't really used on the Mac platform. It's included, but the Mac platform doesn't enable any of it's features (vPro management, mainly.)

      Not likely. Likely it's access to the real CPU core, not some hidden management processor.

      You have to remember that the Intel Pentium was probably the last of the x86 processors to actually run x86 code. The Pentium Pro (and Pentium II, same architecture) emulated x86 - they have an x86 front end that translates x86 instructions into an undocumented RISC core that executes them. (Intel calls these instructions "micro ops") The front end is split into several units - most of them are "simple crackers" that crack basic x86 instructions into micro ops directly, while there is a complex cracker that translates complex x86 instructions into many micro-ops. The simple crackers can emit one micro op each per clock (issuing several instructions), while the complex cracker can emit up to 2 micro-ops (a complex instruction may consist of many micro-ops).

      Likewise, AMD has been doing the same since at least the K5 series, and it's not a surprise if everyone else has as well.

      Via CPUs are typically highly integrated SoC type processors as well, so it wouldn't be a surprise if this functionality (which is documented in the processor user manual - isn't it fun spending months trying to reverse engineer something that was already in a document that a lookup could've saved much effort?) is used to provide emulations of common devices and operating modes.

      So like a VM, it can trap certain instruction calls and emulate them in software, except instead of emulating in x86, it does it natively.

    4. Re:Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by Megol · · Score: 1

      No!
      VIA isn't Intel. The design of VIA C3 isn't the design of Intel processors nor AMD processors.

    5. Re:Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by JBMcB · · Score: 1

      Not likely. Likely it's access to the real CPU core, not some hidden management processor.

      Yep you're right. The C3 is a RISC core with a microcoded x86 frontend. The "backdoor" was an undocumented routine left in to debug the x86 front-end.

      So there could theoretically be an undocumented opcode on Intel/AMD that gets you into the underlying execution units. I'm on the fence as to whether or not AMD/Intel would leave something like that in. The C3 situation seemed to be out of laziness, they just left the instructions open on the underlying silicon. AMD and Intel seem to hold their CPU firmware fairly close to the vest, and I'm not sure they'd allow for a debug instruction to get around their x86 front-end so you could analyze it.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    6. Re: Yes of course, Macs use Intel processors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Apple have not been relevant for years. Despite popular belief the iPhone was really nothing special.

  2. Want real security for your Mac?... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject & Here's how to get it: APK Hosts File Engine 1.0++ 64-bit for MacOS h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r M a c O S . z i p

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any 1 solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP address most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" slowing you hosts speed u up 2 ways: Adblocks + Hardcode fav. sites u spend most time @ vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads slowing u (messagepass 'souled-out' to advertisers easily detected & blocked addons + firewall filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploitation!

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI 4 MacOS!

    (Better vs. Windows model in speed/efficiency/merge)

    APK

    P.S.=> Protects against Spectre & Meltdown + redirect poisoned or downed DNS/botnets/malware downloads/malcript/email malicious payloads... apk

    1. Re: Want real security for your Mac?... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... hosts file "Protects against Spectre & Meltdown" ? Care to explain that one?

  3. Oh this should be good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Apple has no idea what they're doing when it comes to security. macOS is a hodge podge of alternative code paths all doing their own thing- as clearly seen by the root "exploit" in 10.13 (which wasn't really an exploit, but rather a gaping hole- all you had to do was enter in root as the user name with a blank password, and you were in).

    After that entire thing went down, every single company I knew who was running OS X (about 7 in total- one of which was a multi-million dollar customer with a huge hard-on for Apple stuff) scrapped their equipment and switched to something else. I don't know of anyone who still takes Apple seriously when it comes to security. They talk big and put on a nice show for the marketing stuff (especially when it comes to "user security"- when in reality, the only thing they're doing is securing the device from being repaired), but it's all bark and no bite.

    The moment ANYONE takes the platform seriously and launches any sort of in-depth expedition to find a way in, I can guarantee you they'll succeed with relative ease. The only reason OS X isn't considered a holy piece of swiss cheese right now is that not many people are looking at it because the Apple market share truly isn't that impressive (despite what Apple might say- they've alienated all their professional users, and a ton of people are fed up with their perpetual shit on the desktop- but hey, at least 10.14 has better emoji support).

    1. Re: Oh this should be good. by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 0

      It's a nice shinier proprietary desktop for unix-alike fans. Better than KDE was back before it became fully open source*, but encouraging the same sort of nerds to use it.

      (*early linux-era KDE was dual licensed- if you wanted to sell binaries you could pay for that license)

    2. Re:Oh this should be good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Specifics would make your case a lot more than blathered antics about companies that may or may not exist, anonymously. I'm not going to argue Apple has good or even decent security, but you've demonstrated zero actual knowledge of any significant vulns / common pitfalls / security suggestions, just kind of bland toothless gripes. Of course there are gaping holes. Of course every OS has LONG KNOWN gaping holes with exceptions I can count on one hand. The point isn't n-th degree security, it's base level security for joe-asshole, the guy who shuts down by turning off the power strip. Comparing Apple to its OS-behemoth competitor Windows 10, Apple comes out way, way ahead in terms of a series of concerns for end users. Sure anyone can take an "Enterprise" version and wrap it in custom packages and lock it down, FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, but Apple can get joe-asshole online with a modicum of effort and unless he goes looking for trouble in Warez or torrentz, chances are he's going to have zero real-world problems. Not so for jane-asshole, on her windows 10 box that can't even figure out how to display the start bar without an internet connection to fetch you an online (unsecured) ad from the local ad network, open by default. It's not close, go fuck yourself.

      Obviously if you want total security, you need educated users who want total security. So you're pissing on the wrong lemon tree to begin with, fake-analytica.

  4. Try iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not enough people use MacOS on the desktop or the enterprise for this to pick up any traction in the common conversation or mindset.

    Maybe try the same approach with iOS or Android to be more productive and effective on this front

    1. Re:Try iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly this. ios has more holes then Swiss cheese. He could make millions.

  5. Objective-C by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 0

    Just for the record, a complete Objective-C toolchain was an installable package with Slackware 95, one of the Slackware distros of the Linux 1.x era. Objective C existed long before Steve Job's NeXT bought Apple.

    1. Re:Objective-C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very cool history info, thank!

      CAP === 'factors'

  6. Slashdot - headlines that by technosaurus · · Score: 1

    ...

    1. Re: Slashdot - headlines that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      https://bit.ly/2R9SAdu

  7. Objective-C? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    That hasn’t been Apple’s “main programming language” for some time now.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Objective-C? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I'd be shocked if any significant percentage of Apple's immense codebase has been rewritten in Swift. So at least from the perspective of what language Apple uses to write its software, it almost certainly is Apple's main programming language. Well, that and C and C++.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  8. What on earth? by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    Apple bought NeXT, not the other way around.

    Objective-C was NeXTStep's primary supported language, and NeXT is the one who implemented the compiler in gcc to begin with (in the late 80's) which is why it was in Slackware in 1995.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:What on earth? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 0

      In terms of the software culture predominant after the transaction, NeXT bought Apple. Apple had frittered away millions on a next gen Mac OS, and gotten nowhere.

    2. Re:What on earth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In terms of the software culture predominant after the transaction, NeXT bought Apple. Apple had frittered away millions on a next gen Mac OS, and gotten nowhere.

      Correction:

      Han shot first.

      TFTFY

    3. Re:What on earth? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how you got that from the intellectual bankruptcy of Apple's OS developers that lead to them having to buy a new MacOS from an outside company.

  9. YOU = anonymous FAKEname "ne'er-do-well"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject: Your MASSIVE FAIL in this life is you're nothing more than a chattering little do-nothing "ne'er-do-well" online & you know it...

    * Is that the best your "phantasyland UNIDENTIFIABLE FAKE NAME" (for your fake lie of a so-called 'life') can manage?

    When an ANONYMOUS FAKE NAME do nothing like YOU does better than I have? Then talk (you're all talk & no action)...

    You can't help you're an immature little BUTTHURT no-mind, lol! I blew you away in TONS OF PLACES and easily dust your no-mind bullshit blatherings. That you would even ASK such a thing about speculative execution and hosts shows you know NOTHING about computing and is why you hide behind your ANONYMOUS FAKE NAME to avoid showing how STUPID you truly are...

    APK

    P.S.=> The TRUE PRICE of your UNIDENTIFIABLE FAKE NAME do-nothing selves like you that I can ALWAYS CASH IN ON (lol) is that I can use FACT/TRUTH on them to SHATTER their all TOO fragile delusional egos that they actually know A DAMN THING in computing, lol... apk

  10. Best sources for Mac vulnerability information? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    At work we're expanding our support for Mac in our vulnerability scanner, over the next month or two. (Last month I wrote a bunch of code to find more Cisco vulnerabilities.)

    We have out usual sources of vulnerability data, but does anyone happen to know any the are particularly good for Mac specifically? We aim to cover every CVE ever issued.

    1. Re:Best sources for Mac vulnerability information? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "Mac specifically"
      The https://objective-see.com/inde... site has some in the blog, talks sections.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Best sources for Mac vulnerability information? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      check the US-cert or DISA CVE listings....

  11. Not just Unix-like, but actual certified UNIX by raymorris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Coming from using Linux exclusively for 15 years, I was skeptical of the Mac sitting on my desk at my new job a few years ago. It turns out Mac isn't just Unix-like, it's actual certified real UNIX (tm). It's more UNIX than Linux or FreeBSD are.

  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Clickbait is clickbait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    HACKER!!!!!1!

  15. Yeah, but it's insanely cumbersome. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Because it targets the dumbest of the dumb of our society, its entire main UI is simple (as in: simpleton), cumpersome and downright crippling, if you are coming from any UI made for people who don't drool on their keyboards and expect the "thing" to magically know what (lowest common denominator) they (are told to) want.

    E.g. try doing any real network configuration, like a bridge with a VM, and an OpenVPN tunnel to a server as you gateway and dhcp/dns for that bridge. Including firewalling and traffic shaping.

    Or try to just set the window manager to have a shortcut and persistent read-only settings for each window on your 4-8 desktops. With session management automatically restarting programs / opening documents in the exact same state after a reboot.

    Or how about some simple scripts triggered via udev rules, ACPI, cron jobs, shortcuts or something LIRC-like, that alters some text config files. Does macOS even have plain text config files? Are there comments in them and is there some man page (equivalent)?

    And what about finding software for your needs in the package manager, having your own internal overlay, and automatic preservation of config files and the ability to decie yourself, what to merge?

    I found macOS's system settings equivalent to be extremely hard to use, because it barely offers anything, and if it does, puts most of its effort into hiding it away.
    And I found its automation capabilities (like scripting) ... you know: the point of having a computer ... to be practically non-existent.

    I feel that people who call themselves "nerds" and like macOS, or worse iOS, are not really nerds at all, but merely cargo-culting it, like those teenagr girls who start wearing fake glasses, dye their hair purple, don a space invaders t-shirt, and then go on about how they are "such nerds".

    1. Re: Yeah, but it's insanely cumbersome. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Real people see computers as mere tools, not as reasons to live for. We are creatives, professionals, our lives are firmly outside a tiny box full of electronic components. In there lie only cold, pulsating ones and zeroes. Out there is Life with all its colors. We don't care about the inner workings of mere tools, and pity the sad maladjusted individuals who dedicate their empty life to unfeeling machines. It's time society recognize this kind of behavior as clinically deviant and act to help those people.

    2. Re:Yeah, but it's insanely cumbersome. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      like those teenagr girls

      Admit it, you obviously think they're cute...

  16. Hacker who organized... did what? by bidule · · Score: 1

    Someone spoke to hacker who organized...

    Could someone shoot that hanging title?

    --
    ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
    1. Re:Hacker who organized... did what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Hacker Who.

  17. Heh wut wut? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    "An Ex-NSA Hacker Who Has Organized the First-Ever Mac Security Conference" what kind of fucky-fucky, shitty-shat-shit title is that? Ex NSA does what? Jerk off in his feces? Molest kids? Rapes dead dogs? What the fuck does he do? Editors, go kill yourselves. Set fire to a pile of shit and then throw yourselves on the pile of burning shit so you and the shit can burn as one.

  18. To register for the conference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to enter your serial number.

  19. Thanks. I'll look and maybe make a presentation by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Thanks. I'll look that over and maybe use some of the stuff their to make a presentation for my team.

    The job I really want is to be *teaching* security programmers while making very good money doing it. Nobody has that job advertised, so I'm creating it by doing weekly or twicd-weekly presentations for my time, with other people from the company also invited. Eventually people will figure out that whenever you need your security programmers trained in something, Ray does that well. :)

  20. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    c6gunner shot himself down w/ his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & w/ c6gunner altering /. user's words there.

    All since I challenged c6gunner to show better work than mine he did & you can't c6gunner "ne'er-do-well"!

    Right after you tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com... for no good reason & I didn't bug you @ all!

    YOU DEMAND PROOF OF OTHERS "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    I DEMANDED IT OF YOU & YOU FAILED!

    * c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts are shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ?

    50++ /.ers & security pros + RESULTS SAY DIFFERENT:

    Proof's here from /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... from SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments.... & REAL RESULTS w/ hosts working vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments.... so EAT YOUR WORDS... apk

  21. Wasn't I: It was c6gunner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    c6gunner's FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse is him altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... because I challenged him to show he did better work than I have & HE COUDN'T after he tried to mock me 1st for NO REASON as I did not bother him @ all ever afaik https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .

    c6gunner's PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH saying what I don't on spectre/meltdown https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

    I haven't had a MacOS X version recompiled for me yet either!

    (He keeps saying I do but I don't own a Mac! I have a friend who does & can code (to a good extent, good enough to load FreePascal 3.0.4 + patches & Lazarus 1.8.2 IDE for it in 64-bit to do so but he is a BUSY guy, just waiting on him for it to do this as a FAVOR to me...))

    * PROOF ENOUGH OF HIM DOING IT IS RIGHT THERE & he has SEVERAL TIMES (see his post history for proof).

    APK

    P.S.=> He's a jackass DO-NOTHING big talking BLOWHARD "ne'er-do-well" & nothing more + he KNOWS it PROVING IT above with his "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" when I made a FAIR challenge to him... apk

  22. RAY MORRIS BACKED A KKK LIE KNOWINGLY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ray Morris decided to double down on a known KKK lie after it had been debunked, he's a nazi faggot. https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12520486&cid=57184660

  23. Wasn't I: It was c6gunner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.

    So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!

    c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

    YOU DEMAND PROOF? "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!

    * c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    c6gunner's LYING say I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? /.ers & security pros SAY DIFFERENT: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

    SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....

    REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....

    EAT YOUR WORDS

  24. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.

    So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!

    c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

    YOU DEMAND PROOF? "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!

    * c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    c6gunner's LYING say I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? /.ers & security pros SAY DIFFERENT: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

    SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....

    REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....

    EAT YOUR WORDS

  25. BeauHD needs help writing complete sentences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, does nobody care what BeauHD publishes on slashdot?