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Google's First Urban Development Raises Data Concerns (globalnews.ca)

Posted by BeauHD on from the big-data dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Washington Post: A unit of Google's parent company Alphabet is proposing to turn a rundown part of Toronto's waterfront into what may be the most wired community in history -- to "fundamentally refine what urban life can be." Sidewalk Labs has partnered with a government agency known as Waterfront Toronto with plans to erect mid-rise apartments, offices, shops and a school on a 12-acre (4.9-hectare) site -- a first step toward what it hopes will eventually be a 800-acre (325-hectare) development. High-level interest is clear: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Alphabet's then-Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt appeared together to announce the plan in October. But some Canadians are rethinking the privacy implications (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source) of giving one of the most data-hungry companies on the planet the means to wire up everything from street lights to pavement. And some want the public to get a cut of the revenue from products developed using Canada's largest city as an urban laboratory.

"The Waterfront Toronto executives and board are too dumb to realize they are getting played," said former BlackBerry chief executive Jim Balsillie, a smartphone pioneer considered a national hero who also said the federal government is pushing the board to approve it. "Google knew what they wanted. And the politicians wanted a PR splash and the Waterfront board didn't know what they are doing. And the citizens of Toronto and Canada are going to pay the price," Balsillie said. Complaints about the proposed development prompted Waterfront Toronto to re-do the agreement to ensure a greater role for the official agency, which represents city, provincial and federal governments. So far the project is still in the embryonic stage. After consultations, the developers plan to present a formal master plan early next year. Sidewalk Labs' CEO, Dan Doctoroff, says the company isn't looking to monetizing people's personal information in the way that Google does now with search information. He said the plan is to invent so-far-undefined products and services that Sidewalk Labs can market elsewhere. "People automatically assume because of our relationship to Alphabet and Google that they will be treated one way or another. We have never said anythingâ about the data issue, he said. "To be honest people should give us some time. Be patient."

30 comments

  1. Kall Kavanaugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And put his dick on it right away, ladies! You know you want it. You WILL have it.

  2. Omnicorp, Alphabet, same difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like some good old-fashioned dystopian sci-fi.

    1. Re: Omnicorp, Alphabet, same difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I think that Google might really be sticking their foot in it. Right now users go to their site and otherwise most are too ignorant to realize their tracking, but once you pair Google's censorship with city management, get ready for the fireworks. I expect to see a lot more incidents like the Youtube offfice shooter.

    2. Re: Omnicorp, Alphabet, same difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect to see a lot more incidents like the Youtube offfice shooter.

      Does Alphabet already have their own corporate security force? They definitely either need one or just straight up hijack police departments for that stereotypical 80s villain vibe.

  3. An ad company by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    is going to do ads.
    What an ISP? Use an ISP.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  4. Re:Before Google does this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stupid trools that mod all my posts down!

    Slashdot management: When are you finally going to do something about this????

    Life has become a hell here for me and all other decent users!!!!
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  5. Nah by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Shops, offices, apartments, and a school on 12 acres of waterfront?
    That's only 792x660 feet! 0.01875 square miles!

    1. Re:Nah by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      It seems like rather short sighted thinking, is that property water front or underwater front but of course it's actually lakefront, so not a problem, probably.

      Want to do something new and different, create an above ground level basement across the whole site, creating access for vehicles and services below foot traffic level. Services would be much more accessible in bulkheads between structural elements and of course car traffic no longer interferes with human traffic, creating a more walkable environment.

      Of course full clarity on fitting of cameras and microphones would also be nice. Regardless of the evil is as evil does desires of Google, privacy laws are going to really tighten up over the coming years, a major crack down, especially on not specifically signed and accepted systems of monitoring and control, regularly updated.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. Google by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    The first person I don't trust is Google. The second person I don't trust is anyone affiliated with Google.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are simply paranoid!

      I am affiliated with: Google,Amazon,Dreamhost,Comic con and many others and I am one of the most trustable guy in the world because I work for a 3 letter agency!

      You silly old neck beards that go bat shit crazy every time they see an affiliate link make me laugh!

      Sad, very sad...
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  7. I don't mind being played. by ARos · · Score: 2

    Please upgrade the awful infrastructure where I live, since the public sector is BEYOND incompetent. I'll just live my life in incognito mode to avoid the surveillance concerns.

    1. Re: I don't mind being played. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Igcognito mode is no protection. Marketers use everything from your browser's internal API to timezone functionality, screen resolution, how your computer downloads pictures, etc, all to make a signature to uniquely identify your machine. Once they have that, they do not need to store cookies to track you across sites.

  8. "My god, man, get yourself a writer" - Mentok by sheramil · · Score: 1

    Perhaps he meant "fundamentally re-define". Refining a run-down waterfront might turn it into a less run-down waterfront.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 0

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. National here? Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jim Balsillie, a smartphone pioneer considered a national hero

    Uhm... no. Most people I know don't idolize the guy who drove a good Canadian company into the ground by being utterly ignorant of technology.

  11. Not sure what this would look like? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Just rewatch the scene from Minority Report where Tom Cruise tries to stay anonymous while walking by some advertisements. Then watch it again, and again.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  12. So they WILL be collecting personal information by khchung · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sidewalk Labs' CEO, Dan Doctoroff, says the company isn't looking to monetizing people's personal information in the way that Google does now with search information.

    So they are saying they WILL collect people's personal information, just that they are "not looking" to monetize it as Google does, now.

    You bet that when they got the data and have them ready to be sold, they WILL be looking to monetize it.

    Or more simply, they just send the data to Google for free (thus "not monetizing it") and let Google sell it, Alphabet will get the money in the end.

    --
    Oliver.
    1. Re:So they WILL be collecting personal information by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't worry, before they monetize it there will be an update to the TOS. And people who don't agree to the new terms will be able to quit their jobs, pull their kids out of school and move to a different city.

      --
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  13. the big question by astrofurter · · Score: 1

    What I really want to know - and i think we're all wondering this - is where will they build the statue of Joseph Stalin? How big will it be? Who will be the sculptor?

  14. Data by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Sidewalk Labs' CEO, Dan Doctoroff, says the company isn't looking to monetizing people's personal information in the way that Google does now with search

    Interesting. People's personal information will me monetised in a slightly different manner.

    --
    Requiem for the American Dream
  15. Xinjiang is the most wired community by clawsoon · · Score: 3, Informative
    Xinjiang is already the most wired community in history.

    Soldiers had taken telephones from the tourists who were undergoing examination near us and had begun to install a special app called JingWang Weishi that is used in Xinjiang for surveillance of the Muslim population. JingWang sends the police an identification number for the device, its model, and the telephone number of its owner before monitoring all the information that passes through the telephone, warning the user when it finds content that the government deems dangerous. ...

    Three years ago, the Chinese government announced that private and state-owned CCTV surveillance systems that use facial recognition would be unified into a shared database that would encompass the entire population by 2020.

    Xinjiang, which had also been the site of the first Chinese nuclear weapons tests, was once again chosen as the site of a pilot experiment. This is where the majority of the 20 million CCTV cameras at work in the country are located. ... Now, Chinese police can find and arrest any suspect in a crowd whose facial features correspond with existing data in the country’s grandiose central database in the course of seven minutes or less. ...

    CCTV cameras are everywhere: on the roofs of houses, on brackets attached to the walls of buildings, on street lamps, and on metal racks installed specially over the streets for the express purpose of housing cameras. The city is split into square regions, and in order to cross from one quarter into another, every Uyghur must display a plastic ID, hand over any bags or purses to be searched, undergo a pupil scan, and, in some cases, surrender a mobile phone for inspection. The same procedure awaits them at the bank, in the hospital, at the supermarket, and at underground crosswalks. ...

    The loyalty point system, which is officially called a “social credit system,” was announced in China four years ago. No one knows exactly how the system works, but it is known that people’s ratings are calculated using the entire mass of information that the government gathers about its citizens. Financial debt, traffic tickets, reprehensible behavior online (including “harmful shopping”), and smoking in public can all affect a person’s score. One can earn points by donating blood, volunteering, or writing an ode to the Communist Party. But they are also easy to lose — playing too many video games or visiting the mosque too often is enough. Visits to unstable regions are also taken into account, as are conversations with less desirable people that are recorded on surveillance video. ...

    In Xinjiang, where every resident is almost constantly under surveillance, this futuristic nightmare quickly took on the qualities of a bloody dystopia. The artificial intelligence system that analyzes personal data about people divides society into “safe,” “average,” and “dangerous” citizens. Age, religion, previous convictions, and contact with foreigners are all taken into account. It is very likely that samples of DNA might affect residents’ scores in the near future, as well, if they are not part of the system already.

    In September 2016, the first open calls were issued online for genotyping kits to be produced for police use in China, and just two months later, Human Rights Watch announced that DNA sampling had become mandatory in Xinjiang for all those receiving a new passport. Samples are gathered in schools and workplaces, and police officers can also enter people’s homes to take them.

  16. Pavement? by Daralantan · · Score: 1

    giving one of the most data-hungry companies on the planet the means to wire up everything from street lights to pavement.

    What data are they going to get from the pavement? A fat person walks on it, and suddenly starts getting ads for exercise and diet DVDs/books/etc?

    1. Re:Pavement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Traffic patterns, I would guess. Lots of good behavioral analysis you can do with enough of that, particularly if you can correlate it with individual targets and key aspects of the surroundings (businesses, events, ads visible in the direction of motion, etc.). Once you know which ads get more interest for different times of day, demographic patterns, etc., you can optimize their display placement and schedule (and billing, since you have a more accurate accounting of the number of eyeballs they're hitting). If you know that the people leaving the 5pm Weight Watchers class tend to go to get fast food while the people leaving the 6pm class tend to go to the gym, you can target ads appropriately to maximize revenue.

  17. Jim Balsillie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jim Balsillie has never been referred to as a hero in Canada. Except maybe in Hamilton when he tried to get it an NHL team.

  18. FAITH GOLDY FOR MAYOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop this shit before it starts. This will suck the soul out of the city.

    Waterfront area is prime real estate, it is not a "run down area".

    Do this shit in Detroit.

  19. Not a matter of patience by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    This isn't an issue of patience. It's an issue of experience and trust. Over and over and over and over again, corporations have demonstrated that they WILL screw over the average person. They WILL siphon any and all personal data they can get away with. They will do whatever it takes to make a cheap buck, even if (possibly especially if) it saddles the taxpayer with a huge bill.

    The people don't need to be patient. Sidewalk Labs need to prove that they arn't going to screw everyone over.