Slashdot Mirror


Stephen Hawking's Last Paper Is Now Online (vice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: When Stephen Hawking died in March at the age of 76, the world mourned a beloved and visionary scientist. But it is some consolation that Hawking's final paper has now been published on the preprint journal ArXiv, demonstrating that even during his last days, he was still pursuing the epic cosmic questions that defined his career. Entitled "Black hole entropy and soft hair," the paper was authored by Hawking along with physicists Sasha Haco, Malcolm Perry, and Andrew Strominger. The work is the third in a series from the team and addresses Hawking's famous brainchild -- the black hole information paradox. Like many physics conundrums, the paradox emerges from the lack of coherence between quantum field theory and general relativity. On the smallest scales of matter, where atoms and quarks abound, there exists a different and seemingly contradictory set of rules to the largest scale of matter, involving stars and galaxies. The search for a "theory of everything" that reconciles these two models is one of the holy grails of modern physics, and was a lifelong fascination for Hawking.

Black holes are notable flashpoints for this tension between quantum field theory and general relativity. According to the quantum rulebook, it should be impossible for information about a particle -- its spin, configuration, mass, and other features -- to be permanently deleted from the universe. But what about matter that falls into black holes, objects with a reputation of not letting anything escape once it passes the event horizon? Can information be scrubbed inside black holes? Hawking suggested that information could indeed be deleted through Hawking radiation, which is a type of theoretical radiation that can escape from inside a black hole. This process has never been empirically observed, but the radiation would supposedly be stripped of all information about its original properties -- and that would violate the rules of the universe as we know them. In his last paper, Hawking and his colleagues speculated that a phenomenon called "soft hair" might resolve the black hole information paradox. The idea is that trails of light and gravity particles might encircle the event horizon, and could store, at the very least, entropic information about matter that fell into the black hole.

70 comments

  1. I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But this "information can't be deleted" rule sounds suspiciously non-falsifiable. Sure, we haven't figured out how to delete any information *yet*, but how do we proclaim with confidence that it is an absolute impossibility, based merely on what we have observed?

    I dunno. Maybe we should just change the rule to "information about a particle can't be deleted by any means except falling into a black hole."

    There. Problem solved. At least, this approach works pretty well in legal matters, anyway.

    1. Re:I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solved? Lol, as "solved" as law is? Moron.

    2. Re:I am not a physicist by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Funny

      Having had several hard drives fail I would like to assure the physics community that information can in fact be deleted.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re: I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe less information deletion and more information transference/translation?

    4. Re:I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having experienced the joys of disappearing NVMe system drives due to reasons of compatibility or PCIe settings, I dare to suggest that information can also disappear from this universe and re-appear to it as it would have passed through a wormhole. A necessary and sufficient proof of the existence of wormholes.

    5. Re:I am not a physicist by SqueakyMouse · · Score: 1

      Consider an object P positioned at (x,y,z) at time t. I'm just gonna write this event as (x,y,z,t). How do you feel about this?

    6. Re:I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It feels like seeing something from an illiterate idiot code monkey, who tried to write a tuple in the only "computer language" it "knows", python. But is the tuple that the illiterate monkey wrote a vector, as it should be? Can the illiterate code monkey explain why or why not?

      I didn't think so.

    7. Re:I am not a physicist by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      That's funny, and I feel you loss.

      On a more dreary note: The information on the drive may or may not have been deleted.

      [insert Schrödinger's cat]

      It would be accurate to say that we could not get to the information, but it could have been intact and merely inaccessible to us.

      Here's my main point as applies to Hawking's "information loss:"

      Even if WE wiped the drive, and set the bits to all zeros or ones or a combination, we did not lose information -- we changed the information into a pattern that's not useful to use. We can't rebuild that Excel spreadsheet we wiped.

      The quandary, and where Hawking's hypotheses fails, is the definition of "information."

      My position is that all of the information is there, it's just not something we could use in our quest to prove a deterministic universe, much like making a pig from a link of sausage.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    8. Re:I am not a physicist by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Consider an object P positioned at (x,y,z) at time t. I'm just gonna write this event as (x,y,z,t). How do you feel about this?

      In an Euclidean universe that would still just be a sequence of concurrent observations like (x,y,z,1), (x,y,z,2), (x,y,z,3) and so on. It's a bit like I can have however many space dimensions I want if they're a constant 0. It doesn't get interesting until you have the theory of relativity with curved spacetime where objects have different velocities through time. The math of time dilation is pretty well tested and proven by now, we can send an atomic clock up in a GPS satellite and predict how much it will be off compared to a clock on the ground.

      I guess what the GP is saying is that this is a form of illusion, time is constant it's our time-keeping devices that are off. But it also slows down every other natural process, like if you put a radioactive isotope on a GPS satellite it would decay slower than here on earth. It really is the pulse of the universe slowing down as it moves quicker through space, not just a flaw in our clocks which means to redefine time you'd also have to redefine all the formulas that use time.

      So you could define time t0 in the unaccelerated frame but to every formula you'd add an unaccelerated-to-accelerated correction factor exactly equal to the Lorentz factor 1/sqr(1-v^2/c^2). So distance would not be v*t but v*t0*1/sqr(1-v^2/c^2). Except most of the time that would be a gigantic pain in the ass as we are in the same frame of reference and the formulas work quite fine without converting out to an absolute time and back again. Those who need to deal with different frames or change of frames understand the math just fine and for the rest of us time is best defined as "local" time.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re: I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 and all of this is conjecture anyway, right? We don't KNOW what black holes really do, so based on the assumption that they destroy information we get into a tizzy figuring out complicated and useless ways that they really DONT destroy information. What of the initial assumption is just wrong, wouldn't that be easier?

      Like saying what if God didn't really exist, that would resolve a lot of cognitive dissonance that exists because people have to invent ways to stay "right" when their lives are based on a baseless and very likely false assumption.

    10. Re:I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoever upvotes ignorant programmer drivel like the above?

      No, there is no fucking "pulse of the universe", one cannot have "as many space dimensions" as one wants, and the special theory of relativity corrections have jackshit to do with "curved spacetime" and GPS clocks.

      The existence or nonexistence of "black holes" comes from differences in the interpretation of the observed phenomenon of relativity. It is an interpretation issue, and not a physics problem. Hence, the people who indulge in writing about "black hole" paradoxes are only toying with math conclusions that follow from a philosophical position, and not solving a physics problem.

      In classical physics, there is an absolute vector space, which is "flat", and absolute time, which is philosophically separate from the space, and it works in the "intuitive" way time is experienced by us. "Flat" space means one definite thing - that the space metric tensor is a unity matrix, which means that the "distance" is defined as the sum of the squares of the vector components and is invariant. How is "relativity" introduced here and what does it change?

      The classical view is naturally extended with the Neo-Lorentzian interpretation, in which moving fields are subject to forces that create the effects of time dilation and length contraction, but these are actually artifacts of the field movement, and not properties of time and space. In this interpretation, there is no artificial "speed limit", although there is a "speed limit" for each particular field. There is, of course, no "curved spacetime", and no "black holes", because the need for them doesn't arise. All apparent results of the other interpretations (change in orbits, time dilation, length contraction) follow easily, and work the same way they do in the Einstein interpretation, except that the gravity is a field of spin 2 with a mass charge, just like the EM field is a field of spin 1 with electric charge, and not some "curvature" of "spacetime" whatever that might be.

      Then there is the Einstein interpretation of relativity, in which the basic idea is that space is "curved" and this "curvature" is what gives rise to gravity, unlike the mass charge interpretation above. It is a more complicated calculation than the neo-Lorentzian interpretation, and IF done correctly, which is a lot harder, gives the same results as the simpler model above. But it also gives rise to a bunch of weird shit like "black holes", which require "singularities" and give rise to all kinds of other problems which don't exist in the better, "flat" space interpretation. It is preferred over the neo-Lorentzian interpretation because of the philosophical rejection of the idea that there might be an "absolute" coordinate system.

      Finally, there is the Minkowski interpretation of relativity. It is more limited artificial attempt to put together the three distance coordinates and time. How does it work? Well, unlike the idiot's idea that it is slapping "time" in a tuple with the rest of the coordinates, it is at least dimensionally correct, by employing a clever mathematical trick, which has nothing to do with physics. The basis of the "timespace" is defined as (x,y,z and an extra -ct ), where c in the -ct is the "speed of light", an axiom which is accepted as "true" without proof. In this space, the "length" is defined using a Minkowski metric, which is the unity matrix from the Euclidian space plus one extra diagonal element of +or -1 for the "time" coordinate (opposite to your "space" coordinates) and padding zeroes. This interprets the "universe" as a fixed 4-D artifact, in which everything exists in unchanging way, kinda like the people of Vonnegut's Tralfamador see the Universe. It "works" because of the way it is defined, but it means nothing in terms of physics, because it is not, well, physical. It works for a bunch of problems up to a point, and therefore it is popular.

      And so on.

    11. Re:I am not a physicist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it when posters that miss an obvious joke insult the intelligence of the poster.

      The irony is always so delicious.

  2. Macabre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The day of the dead is approaching. This is a sign. 6Nov18!

  3. Pantene Saves Physics by mentil · · Score: 1

    So if this information is encircling the event horizon, is it retrievable or is it permanently lost? If not lost, then that could provide some very interesting cosmological data.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Pantene Saves Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...And to support your claims you provide what proofs? And space is not flat, it has boobs!

    2. Re: Pantene Saves Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, such profanity and assaulting other people over mere disagreements is entirely unwarranted among civilized people. Let's leave this behavior behind and move on. It's not like this is kindergarten... or the Oval Office.

    3. Re: Pantene Saves Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gentlemen, please! No fighting in the war room!

    4. Re:Pantene Saves Physics by meglon · · Score: 1

      Even Einstein eventually gave up on this "time-space" bullshit, are you smarter than him? I don't think so.

      Every experiment on relativity has shown Einstein to be correct; and the other constant in the universe is you're not smarter than Einstein either, even though you seem to think you are. Because you're too fucking stupid to keep up on 100+ years of science doesn't mean the science isn't there... it just means you're a fucking idiot who should cut your fingers off before you type another message.

      Every time there's a decent science article posted on /. we have to deal with cultist fucking cunts like you.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    5. Re: Pantene Saves Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every experiment on relativity has shown Einstein to be correct

      Not at all, every experiment on relativity has shown the neo-lorentzian interpretation to be correct.

      We have no experiment to help us choose between the two.

  4. Thought experiments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " But what about matter that falls into black holes, objects with a reputation of not letting anything escape once it passes the event horizon?"

    You have a 'strong force' that binds the nucleus together (in the standard model).
    You decided this must exist because protons hold together and don't fly apart from their same charges repelling.
    Yet that force must be zero at the size of the nucleus, because the protons are not compressing further, they have stopped compressing, neither flying apart, nor flying together.
    It doesn't matter if this strong force is a real single force, or the net of multiple forces. The effect is the same.

    So you have a force that reduces to zero at a certain distance, which binds protons in a nucleus together. At shorter distances it must repel, at longer distances it must attract, which holds these protons in place at that distance to be the size of the nucleus.

    So why assume that you can compress a black hole infinitely and just keep adding matter and it will compress more, when even the 'Standard model' has forces that say this would not happen.

    Thought experiment #2

    1) Whatever event creates one universe can happen again and again, our universe would not be special.
    2) So there are lots of universes outside ours.
    3) Universes with blackholes
    4) Universes long created before ours
    5) So blackholes have been around long before our blackholes.
    6) Infinitely back in time (since the 1) applies backwards to infinity in time.
    7) And yet given infinite time all matter isn't swallowed in an old black hole.
    8) Hence blackholes are not the end game for matter because our universe is here.

    Putting the two thought experiments together, black holes reach a maximum, when the binding force reaches zero, at which point they go boom. And a universe is created. Which explains why the region of space is free from matter before the big bang, and what came before the big bang. Just another super massive black hole. And outside our visible universe is a lot of other universes.

  5. heat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the universe recycles and evolves again according to the same laws of nature, then all information will be recreated exactly the same.

  6. Re:Spaz in Space by Rainwulf · · Score: 1

    Your inability to comprehend something doesn't make it invalid.

  7. Stephen Hawking's last words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Christians, they were right!

    1. Re:Stephen Hawking's last words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pi IS exactly 3?!

    2. Re:Stephen Hawking's last words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Christians, they were right!

      Which ones ?

  8. Facebook? by wideningartist9 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Having deleted several Facebook profiles worth of data, I can assure you, data can be lost. Wait.. Mark - Are you seriously telling me that you retain everything? Hmm... Just as I thought. Facebook is a Black Hole.

  9. Doesn't sound interesting by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

    "Hawking's last paper gives new insights on physics" would have been juicy, but "last paper is online" resembles the note that left my grandma on the fridge before passing away, except she was much less famous.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Doesn't sound interesting by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      What was it? “I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem which this post-it is too small to contain”

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Doesn't sound interesting by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      No, that was a "kind reminder of the post you have to make to have the whole slashdot community aware".

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    3. Re:Doesn't sound interesting by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      resembles the note that left my grandma on the fridge

      So, how, exactly, did this "note" leave your grandma on the fridge? And was that the cause of death? Or was she already dead when the "note" left her on the fridge?

      And did anyone contact the police when they found grandma on the fridge?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:Doesn't sound interesting by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... proof ...

      He did not leave any proof and he provided no path to test his conjecture.

      From TFS:

      Hawking suggested that information could indeed be deleted through Hawking radiation, which is a type of theoretical radiation that can escape from inside a black hole. This process has never been empirically observed, but the radiation would supposedly be stripped of all information about its original properties -- and that would violate the rules of the universe as we know them. In his last paper, Hawking and his colleagues speculated that a phenomenon called "soft hair" might resolve the black hole information paradox. The idea is that trails of light and gravity particles might encircle the event horizon, and could store, at the very least, entropic information about matter that fell into the black hole.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  10. I read it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very interesting indeed.

  11. Not as advertised by GerryHattrick · · Score: 1

    Those of us who read 'Hawking's Last Paper' before found it interesting, but with speculative conclusions. At the time, only the speculation was headlined, not the science.

    1. Re:Not as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, what's a Virasoro action, Mr. Reader?

      Explain it so that Feynman would be proud of you. Or admit you're just grandstanding and, like Hawking, don't really understand what you're blabbering about, which we know anyway.

    2. Re:Not as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take away Hawking's "speak n spell" and he's just another tard on the short bus.

    3. Re: Not as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With or without he's on the short bus. So what?

    4. Re: Not as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With or without he's on the short bus. So what?

      It's very likely that over the next few decades all of his theories will be dis-proven, and we'll eventually forget he ever existed.

      But for now, let's keep talking about him and all his bullshit fantasies.

    5. Re: Not as advertised by meglon · · Score: 0

      And yet, he was vastly smarter than a worthless cunt like you.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    6. Re: Not as advertised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can a tapeworm like yourself tell? You're infinitely more stupid than a cunt.

    7. Re: Not as advertised by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

      That's simple.
      He doesn't hide like you.
      The fact is that you make minerals look intelligent.

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
  12. Re:Spaz in Space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you able to comprehend what OP's saying? Stephen Hawking has not produced a single falsifiable hypothesis - what he's doing is math, not physics.

  13. Re: Spaz in Space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. Joey Deacon at least was funny.

  14. Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I've been making shit up all along and you losers ate it all lololol."

  15. I'll always remember him like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il8fJ87SG-k

  16. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Violet Gives Willingly.

  17. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, all black girls do. They crave the white cock.

  18. Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The blackholes don't exist.

  19. CP violation and strong force range by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Up until discovery of parity violation, physicists thought CPT conservation was one of absolute laws of universe. Conservation of information is probably heading to the same direction as well.

    If strong force range is confined between quarks and gluons inside hadrons. Why donâ(TM)t physicists think the same about preservation of information, means there is certain upper conditions at which information can be preserved?

    I am all for establishing links between physics of different level ( like how strong force is extremely short ranged due to color confinement), but information loss paradox doesnâ(TM)t seem to be one of them.

  20. Familiar pattern ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... wherein bright theoretical scientists try to straighten a persistent bend in their discipline that moves away from their area of expertise.

    Hawking essentially says that the information comes out of the black hole, but not in a useful form that could, in theory, be used to construct an original.

    Useful to whom?

    Just because we can't recognize the processed information and trace it back to its original state doesn't mean shit.

    The universe made us. It doesn't need use to put it back together again.

    Einstein went down a similar path. He worked all his life trying to extend his theories to perfection.

    With almost predictable regularity, Einstein came up with a new Theory of Everything and, like Hawking, provided no opportunity to test the ideas.

    Meanwhile, younger theorists, about the same age as Albert had been in his prime, had moved on.

    Einstein died trying to take dice away from God.

    Hawking, like Newton and Einstein, was one of the rare talents that pop up throughout history and he deserves accolades and honours for his work.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:Familiar pattern ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In TFA Hawking essentially says that there is a certain mathematical trick that, in some abstract phase space, produces the same mathematical result as a derivation by another mathematical trick. And then he chooses to interpret the result as entropy in that phase space. And that's all there is to it.

      TFA has no relation to reality whatsoever.

  21. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Them nigga gals suck a whiteboy's cock like it's a popsicle in summertime. Them girls never tasted a healthy cock until they started sucking on whiteboys. Them nigga cocks be nasty with disease.

  22. the very large and the very small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But did Einstein see the Winter Sunlight?

    For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion(operation of wandering)(planet) so that they will believe the lie.
    cloudflare-ipfs.com

  23. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I won't aks how you know this, just take it on faith.

  24. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brett Kavanaugh Raped Our Young Girls But Violet Gave Willingly.

  25. Re: Black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brett didn't rape anyone, sorry. Proven by FBI and Senate committee investigations. The drunken bitch SJW trick just doesn't work anymore after Pedo Argenta.

  26. His last toiletpaper is online after wiping his by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    brown hole, or someone did it for him. Obviously there was some hair there.