Slashdot Mirror


Automation is Democratizing Experimental Science (axios.com)

New advances are taking automation to the highest end of human endeavors, offering scientists a shot at some of the most intractable problems that have confounded them -- and along the way tipping a global balance to give upstarts like China a more level playing field in the lab. From a report: A combination of artificial intelligence and nimble robots are allowing scientists to do more, and be faster, than they ever could with mere human hands and brains. "We're in the middle of a paradigm shift, a time when the choice of experiments and the execution of experiments are not really things that people do," says Bob Murphy, the head of the computational biology department at Carnegie Mellon University.

Automated science is "moving the role of the scientist higher and higher up the food chain," says Murphy. Researchers are focusing their efforts on big-picture problem-solving rather than the nitty-gritty of running experiments. He says it will also allow scientists to take on more problems at once -- and solve big, lingering ones that are too complex to tackle right now. Starting next year, Murphy's department will offer students a master's degree in automated science, the university announced last week.

52 comments

  1. GlaDDOS lives! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But look at me still talking when there's science to do,
    when I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you,
    I've experiments to run
    there is research to be done
    on the people who are still alive

  2. "upstarts like China"? by scdeimos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You guys are hilarious. China was doing science while Americans were still playing with bows and arrows.

    1. Re:"upstarts like China"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys are hilarious. China was doing science while Americans were still playing with bows and arrows.

      The apex of Chinese science is grinding up tiger penises to get old men hard. They still do.

      Call us when China has their Einstein or Hawking. Oh wait! They killed all the educated during the last revolution. How long until the next one?

      Maybe in a few generations China will catch up to where the west is now.

    2. Re:"upstarts like China"? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2

      You guys are hilarious. China was doing science while Americans were still playing with bows and arrows.

      So what happened?

    3. Re: "upstarts like China"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As in Native Americans? Is there some Chinese vs Native American rivalry that I'm not privy to?

    4. Re:"upstarts like China"? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the part when the progressive Left took over their country, outlawed opposition, and ruled it with no interference for 40 years? They left bloody footprints through that culture that respected teachers. Being polite and respectful to anyone could make you the victim of a struggle session or even a slave labor camp. All knowledge that didn't come from the Left was evil, remember?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:"upstarts like China"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They just overtook you, If you weren't talking so much you'd have noticed.

    6. Re:"upstarts like China"? by Ocker3 · · Score: 1

      I think you mean Extreme Left, the Progressive Left wants free education and cheap healthcare.

    7. Re:"upstarts like China"? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Both shut down the speech of everyone they don't like. Not much good when you're sitting in a gulag while your kids are being educated for free that far left principles are The Only Truth.

      "We cast aside our three core ideas - Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism - and that was a mistake. We were taught Marxist revolutionary ideas from 1949 to 1978. We spent thirty years on what we now know was a disaster."
      -- Zhu Zhongming, Shanghai accountant

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  3. Democractizing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Democracy gives an equal voice to unequal people.

    That's not what this is doing. Rather, people are capitalizing on automation. This Capitalism, not democracy.

    1. Re:Democractizing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't agree more. High-throughput experiments are a godsend for huge studies and experiments, like finding the perfect conditions for crystallizing a protein or detecting harmful drug interactions, but democracy absolutely is not being achieved here. Labs that previously would've employed an army of undergrads, Master's students, or first-year PhD students are putting their money into these robots that don't need to sleep, eat, take courses, teach to make ends meet, or work on their theses and eventually graduate. It's the same story as automation in every other industry. The "high level problem solvers" are called full professors and they already spend all day writing grants instead of standing at the bench with a pipette.

      And if anything, surely China has an abundance of vertically-mobile young folk looking for higher education opportunities? It sounds like automated wet labs are actually the perfect way to kill off lab positions that would lead to more people becoming affluent and well-educated. You know, the kinds of people a society needs to challenge an entrenched upper crust. The kinds of people who can credibly challenge authoritarian regimes. The kinds of people who value facts over philosophy.

      If Xi Jinping or one of his apparatchiks aren't taking credit for this, they're missing out on a great opportunity to revel in a perfect example of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics in action. Kudos.

    2. Re:Democractizing? by mikael · · Score: 1

      That happened with the bio-science PhD students doing genomics. Their thesis would be based on the analysis of a particular gene, protein, RNA strand. They would do investigations involving suspected possible interactions. For the majority, they could only prove there wasn't any interaction. If they were lucky, they could find some interaction and then explore what that involved and contribute that knowledge to the genomics project. Then after completing their PhD, they would join the ranks of other students who had now been turfed out to make way for the next wave of undergraduate researchers.

      Doing experiments with genetics used to involve manual labour in a cycle where the research scientist proposes the experiment, the director approves it, the technician implements it and gathers the results, the research scientist analyzes the results, provides the conclusion, then continues the cycle. All of this was automated by getting
      a machine to perform experiments in bulk using 100+ test tubes and pipettes in parallel, using marker dyes and an optical camera plus expert system software.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    3. Re:Democractizing? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

      Not in this context.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    4. Re:Democractizing? by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      These machines aren't cheap, either. A lot of robots for scientists start at tens of thousands of dollars. Shelling out $20k for a machine to do your pipetting for you only covers a small fraction of the duties of your typical grad student (who also costs $20k), too.

      This only helps labs that are already well-funded - the opposite of democratizing access.

    5. Re:Democractizing? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Democracy gives an equal voice to unequal people.

      No, it doesn't - it gives the majority power to silence the minority.

      Remember the old saying? "Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner."

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  4. "democratizing" science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that where we get to vote what the results should be?

    1. Re:"democratizing" science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that where we get to vote what the results should be?

      Why would you voluntarily participate in a hoax? Science is fake. News is fake. Go back home and watch Netflix on 6 Nov. Nothing at all to see here.

  5. Grad students by vanyel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What will grad students do if experiments are automated?

    1. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What will grad students do if experiments are automated?

      Coffee, dry-cleaning, correcting papers and tests, teaching, running interference from the dept. chair, banging my shrew wife/husband and keeping her/him off my back, licking my bunghole, etc ..... everything to let them pass into the shit life of endless writing of papers to stay in the factory piece work life of an academic - until that rare lottery winning (these days) of tenure.

      Well, having the grad student kill a tenured professor for an opening is a possibility, I suggest not because it may start a trend and an unofficial policy. And you never know that the regents may remove that professorship upon assassination - and we all end up adjuncts.

      Frankly, my time and energy would have been better spent starting up something in Silly Valley - even with the inevitable failure because, I had a STARTUP! and I'm not some schmuck teaching under-grads who have no interest other than getting that piece of paper so that they can enter the white collar world.

    2. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More work.

    3. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that all discussion so far revolves around automating Biology, which is barely a Science, and the Grad Students involved are barely more important than the whatevers they are assigned to experiment on.

    4. Re: Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dance at titty bars like law students.

    5. Re:Grad students by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      The tens of billions that Pharma is spending annually on biology R&D should convince you otherwise.

    6. Re:Grad students by gweihir · · Score: 1

      They will do experiments. Just not all anymore. Doing experiments manually is both an essential part of their education and necessary for prototyping experiments and for small runs. The article is mostly nonsense, as has gotten so customary when "AI" or "robots" are discussed these days.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, having the grad student kill a tenured professor for an opening is a possibility, I suggest not because it may start a trend and an unofficial policy.

      There are too many academics now, so you lot better figure something out or this'll become needed.

      I'd like to keep the useful ones, but if we can't do that we might have to get rid of what's left because I sure as shit don't want a country full of stupid but hardy "academics".

      Frankly, my time and energy would have been better spent starting up something in Silly Valley - even with the inevitable failure because, I had a STARTUP!

      That is the general idea, yes. Even failure is success among that crowd, as long as you owned the thing.

      The term "merit washing" originated there, but I'm sure it applies elsewhere too by now.

    8. Re:Grad students by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Pharma’s R&D budget is matched by their marketing budget, so meh.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    9. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, but it's a bit more subtle than this. At least in the US, Industry have shifted much of the Pure Research to the Universities and Government Institutions like the National Labs, while cozy Patent arrangements mean that Industry reaps the final profits. Why? Because it's Cheaper this way, that's why. The Public pays for the Research; Industry makes the profits.
      This is why places like the once eminently respectable and respected Bell Labs are just mere shells these days. They don't build their own Synchrotron Light Sources, they just schedule Beam Time at places like the ALS:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Light_Source

      The ALS is just swarming with Grad Students and Post Docs, juicing up their CVs late at night, while making important and possibly far more lucrative contacts with the Industries they may end up working for later on.

      Captcha: covets

    10. Re:Grad students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pharma’s R&D budget is matched by their marketing budget, so meh.

      Dude, not even close. Pharma's marketing spend is nearly 20 times the research spend.

  6. And yet China is STILL a backwater. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism doesn't care who was first; it just cares who is most effective.

    China is ineffective.

    1. Re:And yet China is STILL a backwater. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's why Trump is up in arms.

  7. Another solve: reproducibility by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even the best human descriptions of processes to generate the desired outcome can leave out minute details (like holding the vial at an incline of 45 degrees!). However, if you have an automated lab setup then you can simply share the instructions that were given to the machine that generated the desired result. Great for chemists, less so for psychologists. :P

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Another solve: reproducibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Minute details might be important. If you just recreate the experiment with another machine setup exactly like the first one, you may end up missing a minute detail that made the experiment successful and start believing that one of the other big obvious details was it instead. That may keep you stuck in a rut with a misconception in your theory.

    2. Re:Another solve: reproducibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, humans may not observe mistakes or unexpected details that have historically been crucial to advancing scientific theories.

    3. Re:Another solve: reproducibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best machine descriptions of processes to generate the desired outcome show that the machines will grow smarter at a faster pace than humans and will continue to do so until the desired outcome can be reached only by killing off the (overpopulated) humans.

  8. The war on science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Science is not being "democratized", it's under attack. There is a worldwide, carefully crafted, meticulously orchestrated, deliberate war on science.

    It's soldiers are the climate denialists, anti-vaxers, moon-landings-hoaxers, chemtrails-believers, flat-earthers.

    It's generals are the corporate powers hell-bent on making sure that the people of earth can never be tought to think critically and rationnaly, that the only "truth" that they are told is the "truth" that will make them serve the corporate interests of their masters.

    For centuries, science has been taking bites out of superstition, subjectivity, hear-say, dogmatism; the pilars of tyranny.

    Now the would be tyrants are fighting back. This is nothing less than a full out war against not only science, but democracy, justice, human civilization itself.

    1. Re:The war on science by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      It's soldiers ...

      It's generals ...

      How's the war on grammar going?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:The war on science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      English is not my native language. How many languages do you speak ? I bet just one.

      But that's ok. Feel free to attack me again on that, since this seems to be your only strategy when you can't counter and actual argument.

    3. Re:The war on science by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... when you can't counter and actual argument.

      English is your first language after, "Da Da giggy boo."

      It's lame to dig up an excuse like that.

      I am multilingual, being proficient in the following languages:

      English, Pasquale, COBOL, FORTRAN, breeze shooting, African-American vernacular English, mathematics, love, physics, Cajun, and pig Latin.

      Back on topic: Science is being democratized, using the same definition of that word that applies to the democratization of literature (advances in printing press technology), Photography has been democratized in that even the unwashed have cameras.

      Publishing used to be limited to those who had money and something valuable to say.

      As you and I have demonstrated, any asshole can do that now.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  9. Spoken like a true Marxist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a robot can do your work, then your work is uninteresting.

    Be glad that you're NOW free to pursue work that is actually interesting.

    News flash: Democracy gives equal voice to both the fool and scholar.

  10. Follow the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One side is seeking more money and more political power over other people's lives.

    The other side is having its career destroyed and even its social life decimated just for standing up and saying "I'm not sure I agree."

    I know which side to back...

    1. Re:Follow the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, follow the money. I follow the hundreds of billions of dollars of the coal, oil and gas industry.

      And the only ones having their careers attacked are the climate scientists accused of manipulating their data through purely fabricated supposely "leaked" emails, fabricated by industry shills, of course.

  11. An equal vote is what's arbitrary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait. Giving unequal people and equal voice is pretty arbitrary. Like, why would you do that?

    And, you know what's NOT arbitrary? The distribution of capital under voluntary trade.

    So, once again, Democracy proves itself to be a dumb idea, and is self-contradictory like all dumb ideas. Thanks for pointing that out.

    1. Re:An equal vote is what's arbitrary. by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Like, why would you do that?

      Money.

      You're avoiding one of the definitions of democratization wherein those things that were limited to the elite are now available to the unwashed.

      The printing press equalized (democratized) the disparity between the literate and illiterate.

      Efforts to stop that paradigm shift failed because the press makes a shitload of money.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  12. You're living in an alternate reality. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's be pen pals.

    1. Re:You're living in an alternate reality. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in your reality, you're telling me that the coal, oil and gas industry is not threatened by the proposed goals for reduction of greenhouse gases ? And they don't have hundreds of billions of dollars to lobby governements and politicians ?

      Wow. I want to know what you're smoking.

  13. Alternately CAPTCHA: contours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automation science means absolute corporate and government control, the worst fascism possible.

  14. That's just fine except by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    It works for those scientist who straddle the divide between the time they had to learn to do it themselves and gained knowledge and experience doing so, and the the time they will have only "big picture" thoughts. For those who only learn in a big picture environment I doubt they will be able to have the big picture thoughts. More like big fantasies. And they will only be able to do what can be done by the equipment. How do they develop new lab techniques when they only buy lab equipment that does certain things? "Why CAN'T the equipment do this?"

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
  15. That's capitalism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not democracy.

    1. Re:That's capitalism. by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      No.

      It's both.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  16. That's not a contradiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you give each fool a voice equal to that of a scholar, well guess what? You end up with the foolish majority silencing the scholarly minority. 2 Wolves, 1 cup.

  17. not so good for upstarts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just like in industrial applications, automation plays into hands of developed countries. human work is more expensive there.