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Google's Smart City Dream Is Turning Into a Privacy Nightmare (engadget.com)

schwit1 shares a report from Engadget: Sidewalk Labs, an Alphabet division focused on smart cities, is caught in a battle over information privacy. The team has lost its lead expert and consultant, Ann Cavoukian, over a proposed data trust that would approve and manage the collection of information inside Quayside, a conceptual smart neighborhood in Toronto. Cavoukian, the former information and privacy commissioner for Ontario, disagrees with the current plan because it would give the trust power to approve data collection that isn't anonymized or "de-identified" at the source. "I had a really hard time with that," she told Engadget. "I just couldn't... I couldn't live with that."

Cavoukian isn't the first privacy expert to abandon the Quayside project. Saadia Muzaffar, founder of TechGirls Canada, left the Digital Strategy Advisory Panel earlier this month. In a resignation letter, she said Waterfront Toronto had shown "apathy and [an] utter lack of leadership regarding shaky public trust and social license." The advisory panel was attended "in good faith," she said, but showed "a blatant disregard for resident concerns about data." These disagreements will add to the concerns of Torontonians. Sidewalk Labs still has time to address these issues and create a master plan that will be accepted by everyone. If the company continues to lose public trust, though, there's a good chance residents and government officials will make up their minds and reject the plan before reading the first page.

61 comments

  1. And we can only hope they drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    There is nothing a "privacy policy" can do to stop data from being collected.

    1. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Correct, and the same goes for privacy laws. But the latter at least lets us come down hard on whomever is caught with their hand in the data cookie jar.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And "anonymization", isn't... not when the adversary has as much data as Google does about every person living in a first world country. It can re-associate identities with anonymized datasets.

      There are entire industries built around doing that. It is easily within Google's abilities.

      The ONLY safe thing is to have no data collected.

    3. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And we should view their approach to "privacy policy" the same way the average person views the EULA.

      They don't read it, it doesn't apply, and they don't care.
      Everything else follows from that.

    4. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Get the networks done by an IPS not an ad company would be a good start for privacy.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      no.. laws let the state selectively come down hard on the hands of political enemies (or littlepeople) they find in the cookie jar. Their friends will be exempt.

    6. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Good luck finding one that isn't in bed with TLAs and/or said ad companies.

    7. Re: And we can only hope they drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would make her 7 years old you sick fuck.

    8. Re: And we can only hope they drop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, privacy laws that say you shall not collect data would help because the only secure data is that which nobody possesses. Funny how privacy laws never seem to work like that.

    9. Re:And we can only hope they drop it by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Google handles large scale network technology, and small scale for their internal services and personnel, constantly and effectively. I'd expect them to have considerable expertise. Their _goals_ will differ from those of a typical ISP.

  2. An ad company by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    is always going to let the needs of the paying ad brands be the only consideration.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:An ad company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TDS tell #57: Getting triggered into political rants by completely unrelated discussions.

  3. of course it is by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only real chance for privacy is if the systems are self-contained on the property and data isn't exfiltrated to offsite servers. Even then, there are security risks if the system has bugs that make it vulnerable.

    Given that Google's business is user data, there's no practical way to have privacy in a Google-driven home.

    I expect similar problems for Google self-driving cars unless laws mandate that voice tech and general listening has to be handled in-car, and even then there are issues.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:of course it is by bmimatt · · Score: 3

      Precisely.
      I do not understand what kind of gullible moron would think, even for a second, there wouldn't be serious privacy implications stemming from the arguably largest data collection company being the de-facto owner of the project. It's mind-blowing Toronto people would fall for this.

    2. Re:of course it is by Voyager529 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's mind-blowing Toronto people would fall for this.

      They're not.

      From the summary:

      " The advisory panel was attended "in good faith," she said, but showed "a blatant disregard for resident concerns about data."

    3. Re:of course it is by chrisjbuck · · Score: 1

      Definitely has to have a firewall where personal information is protected, yet maybe some AI will have to come first if people have expectations of alerting medical/police but only when something really bad actually has happened. And voice activated enhancement of photos is a must.

    4. Re: of course it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but this was predicted... They didn't need to even waste their time with Google on this project

    5. Re: of course it is by c6gunner · · Score: 0

      Nonsense. They don't need a firewall as long as they have APKs hosts file engine.

    6. Re: of course it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the residents shouldnâ(TM)t have showed up to voice their concerns?

    7. Re: of course it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When there's a $50 billion dollar investment at stake, you show up and try to work through the problems before walking away.

  4. Governments will acquiesce to corporations by chiguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the company continues to lose public trust, though, there's a good chance residents and government officials will make up their minds and reject the plan before reading the first page.

    I'm not sure where the author gets this conclusion, re: "good chance...governments officials will... reject the plan..." Governments and politicians will side with corporations over residents when they smell the money and hear the big promises of more money. Privacy is not something most governments care about.

    --
    passetspike!
  5. The government doesn't give a rats ass by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    I find it hilarious the government is adding their comments when they don't get a single care in the world to data security. I can count ZERO government agencies whom use encrypted mail, support digital encrypted signatures, support shadow identifies and etc.... If the government wants to talk about privacy, they should lead by example.

    1. Re: The government doesn't give a rats ass by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I can count ZERO government agencies whom use encrypted mail, support digital encrypted signatures

      Guess you never heard of the military.

    2. Re:The government doesn't give a rats ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say worse. Governments want corps to collect all sorts of data all the time. If a corp does it, no legal issue. If the gov does, then privacy laws come into play. Once the corp has it, subpoena can be issued to grab the data. Two high profile cases I can think of off the top of my head. The DNA relative of the killer in Sacramento and the guy they caught thru the broad cellphone location data. Both would not be possible if it was the gov collecting the data because they would not be allowed to hold a database of everyone's DNA. But people donate their DNA to these firms to find out their ancestry. And the cellphone tower data is the goldmine that just keeps on giving.

    3. Re: The government doesn't give a rats ass by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      Or US Gov (not just military). Look up CAC card and its uses sometime...

    4. Re: The government doesn't give a rats ass by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      (yeah, I know the last 'C' is card, but that's what they call it anyway)

    5. Re: The government doesn't give a rats ass by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, my mistake, but all government agencies should support it.

  6. I love the apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Look, simply because a company collects data without regard for its safety or privacy of its subjects doesn't mean its ok. And just because it's happened the past or continues to doesn't make it acceptable. Google has the technology and the means to collect data in a responsible way and demonstrate that they are good stewards of it. But they don't seem to be doing this. Instead we have people coming out of the woodwork to apologize for their behavior. No, it's not OK. Google has to do better and demonstrate that they can be in the role they are in without fucking it up. Seriously Google, try a little harder.

    1. Re:I love the apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >it's not OK
      >has to do better
      >try a little harder

      Damn, with that level of public anger working against them they're fucked.

    2. Re: I love the apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are pretty strong words for a Canadian.

  7. Bad headline by TimMD909 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "... turning Into a Privacy Nightmare..."

    Really now? When was it anything else?

    1. Re:Bad headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it has been such by design. As webcomicname.com says, "oh no".

  8. Google's Dystopian EPCOT is DOA (hopefully) by Etcetera · · Score: 1

    Congratulations, Google...

    You've successfully "Don't Be Evil"-ed enough so that no one in their right mind would possibly agree to live there unless they wanted to become an Alphabet serf.

    Disney at its most malicious would be 1000x more trustworthy than Alphabet in this regard, and I'd sooner live the rest of my days in the RCID than step foot in Googleville.

  9. Largely, Canadians don't care much by guy_scree · · Score: 1, Troll

    Torontonian here. The founding principles of the US were "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Still works that way, especially if you're a wealthy white male. This country's basis was "peace, order, and good government". Individual rights are NOT paramount. There's a CCLU, but it has a much lower profile than the ACLU. Historically, we trust our government a lot more than the Americans do. Although this may be gradually changing as Conservative ideology drives out Liberal ideology by promoting fear that we'll become a godless police state.

    1. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can confirm you don't speak for all Toronto people. Had to make a quick call to my Canadian friend to verify. Apparently you don't realize that your views are not universally shared among all in your tribe.

    2. Re:Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop with the "wealthy white male" mantra. There's nothing remotely or inherently "wealthy" or "male" about the "white".

      You've swallowed the feminist agenda that any member of the male sex ultimately controls the universe - and that has never been true, ever, not in the history of the human race. Most white males are just like the rest of the males - they work for a paycheck and they live under the fist of their boss, who can fire them at any time for any reason, or no reason. After that their family struggles to survive.

      My guess - you're black, and you're female. Just under a different moniker.

    3. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toronto is to Canada what San Francisco is to the US

    4. Re:Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ACLU has gone to shit lately and is just another liberal tool now. These days they're 1000 times more likely to get involved if some random asshole taunts a muslim or a tranny on the subway than if, for example, a public university shits all over free speech rights or due process.

    5. Re:Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Torontonian here

      Where is Torontonia??

    6. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toronto is to Canada what San Francisco is to the US

      Yep, Toronto is a freakshow.
      Canadians do care about privacy, but the communists in Toronto don't.

    7. Re:Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's individual rights in respect to the government. That's not the same thing as having a company spy on you 24 hours a day and then sell your data. People may not care because they've yet to experience other businesses or wealthy neighbor suddenly finding out what you have purchased or did in extensive detail for the past year.

    8. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But see, that's misleading too. If you're WEALTHY, life is easy. The "white male" canard is nothing but antipopulist hate-politics.

    9. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wealthy people around the world in all colours, seem to smile alot and take it easy.
      That doesn't mean being wealthy is easy, to build, maintain and grow.
      Wealth is supposed to provide though.

      Being poor never was "easy" though.

    10. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Mod up.

    11. Re: Largely, Canadians don't care much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A load of us are also house-poor boomers unwisely living on the equity in their properties, people living in near-poverty, and some homeless. This political shit is bewildering to us and there is a silent majority of people just living their lives in as much harmony as they can muster.

      It's more likely to be bad if the people are college/university students or politicians, though. Also: don't be a happy-looking young man near U of T's downtown campus or you'll get the evil eye from paranoid female students.

  10. Toronto was a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putting this in Toronto was pretty stupid frankly. And I say this as a Canadian. It will never work well there. Not by a long shot. Vancouver or Calgary would have been much better, and I don't even like those cities either.

  11. Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Google had cared about that to begin with, they would never have proposed this autistic idiocy. Fuck Google, hard and slow.

  12. 1001 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M6J 1H4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is another address: 1001 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M6J 1H4 in Toronto which is really good candidate to become Google's smart city. Its citizens would not mind to be exposed to new technologies.

    1. Re:1001 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M6J 1H4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think Google aren't already working with CAMH to get vulnerable people to give up their data?

      https://www.mss.ng

  13. Google's Rape City! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Force the residents to suck your dick and get a 90 million dollar payday!

  14. Well, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's Google. How was it ever not going to be a privacy nightmare?

  15. Google *is* a privacy nightmare by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    The Smart City is just another illustration of that. Why is anyone surprised?

  16. Greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism without conscience is coming apart at the seams.

  17. Microsoft has official closed its acquisition of G by dmt0 · · Score: 1

    That's totally serial

  18. NO Tech company is trustworthy now a days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's simple, don't trust any company because they all want to commit forced data theft. Everyone needs to be educated that this happens, way too many people DONT know this happens.