Chinese Smartphone Maker Xiaomi Completes Its 2018 Goal of Shipping 100 Million Units of Phones (zdnet.com)

Chinese smartphone maker Xiaomi has shipped 100 million units of phones as of October 26, completing its annual target more than two months ahead of its original plan, Xiaomi's founder and CEO Lei Jun announced on the company's Sina Weibo account. ZDNet: The smartphone brand, currently sitting behind Huawei and Oppo in China, is reporting a better sales result this year. It only shipped 70 million smartphones for the first 10 months in 2017, though it nevertheless also completed its shipment target for last year ahead of time, according to Lei's Sina Weibo post in November 2017. The 100 million shipment benchmark set in less than 10 months this year is also higher than the full-year shipment result of Xiaomi, which shipped a total of 90 million mobile handsets last year.

Comments

More to come

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

And this is only the beginning....eventually Xiaomi will bury Apple in terms of sales.

Re:More to come

[viperidaenz]

Sorry mr fud, the vast majority of Xiaomi phones are sold in China and India. Only a fraction make it to USA. There are no official channels for phone sales in USA.
Their phones don't support all the LTE frequencies in USA. They all come with Chinese apps pre-loaded.

I very much doubt they have anything to do with Russia/Trump. Apple and Samsung are the biggest mobile phone vendors in USA. They're both full of proprietary software.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey look it's Year+1 and along with that is another "Apple is doomed!" prediction. Don't you Fandroids ever get tired of being wrong so much?

Re:More to come

[thesupraman]

Hard solid facts tell US the US has actively intercepted most of the worlds internet usage.

'Sources' also told you about WMDs in a country you them bombed into the stoneage, from memory.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

Crushing I-phone in the two fastest growing markets in the world, China and India.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

But it will never even remotely catch up on revenue, profits or brand recognition. Just another cheap throwaway brand selling to low-income markets.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Your sources should also tell you that the plural of "phone" is "phones".

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no product called "I-phone" and I'm sure Apple is weeping all the way to the bank with the $53.3 billion in revenue and $11.5 billion in net income they made last quarter compared to Xiaomi making $6.6 billion with $1.5 billion net income. Apple sure is getting "crushed"... NOT.

Re:More to come

[hcs_$reboot]

eventually Xiaomi will bury Apple in terms of sales

Don't think so, at least not in the short/middle term. iPhones and Androids are not considered to be in the same league, and most iPhone users will then upgrade to a newer iPhone, not switch to Android. Xiaomi could eventually bury other Android phones makers, though.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

I-phone has 8% of the Chinese smartphone market compared to Huawei 25%, Oppo 19%, Vivo 18%, Xiaomi 13%. So, yah, crushed, and too bad because China was 33% of global I-phone revenue.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone is a lot more popular in the US compared to elsewhere.
In Europe Samsung is the most popular brand. (Slightly larger market than the US.)
Apple still makes more money due to higher profit margins and better tax avoidance.

Xiaomi mainly targets China and India. Each of them have a larger population than US and Europe combined.
Together those countries have more than 2.7 billion inhabitants. (Or 35% of the world population.)

Once they start to target the western markets the other phone companies are going to shit their pants if they aren't already.
Their phones costs less than half of the equivalent phone from Samsung or Apple.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

You better lay off those magic mushrooms. I-phone is MIA in India with 1% market share. Not much better in China with 8%, down from 15%. Android totally dominating.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

You better lay off those magic mushrooms. I-phone is MIA in India with 1% market share. Not much better in China with 8%, down from 15%. Android totally dominating.

The article was about Xiaomi shipping lots of phones. Xiaomi is not Apple, last time I checked. Xiaomi is an Asian (Chinese) company. Apple is an American company, not Chinese and not Indian. Perhaps reading comprehension is difficult for you? Maybe you need some Tough Love yourself?

To the point, I've been in majority Chinese neighborhoods and I've been in majority Hindu neighborhoods. Never once did I fear for my safety. What I found were industious family-oriented people trying to get ahead. They were generally friendly and courteous and if you didn't fuck with them, they wouldn't bother you. Even though as a white guy I really stood out it was nothing to worry about.

Never did anyone have to fear taking a wrong turn and winding up in a dangerous "wrong neighborhood" with them. Ever. Totally unlike the black neighborhoods where merely being there was a serious threat to your health and several shootings began this way. Merely minding your own business and not bothering anyone was a great way to get shot. If you stopped staring at your toes for even a moment and accidentally made eye contact, God help you.

But they're equal, sure.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

You better lay off those magic mushrooms. I-phone is MIA in India with 1% market share. Not much better in China with 8%, down from 15%. Android totally dominating.

The article was about Xiaomi shipping lots of phones. Xiaomi is not Apple, last time I checked. Xiaomi is an Asian (Chinese) company. Apple is an American company, not Chinese and not Indian. Perhaps reading comprehension is difficult for you? Maybe you need some Tough Love yourself?

To the point, I've been in majority Chinese neighborhoods and I've been in majority Hindu neighborhoods. Never once did I fear for my safety. What I found were industious family-oriented people trying to get ahead. They were generally friendly and courteous and if you didn't fuck with them, they wouldn't bother you. Even though as a white guy I really stood out it was nothing to worry about.

Never did anyone have to fear taking a wrong turn and winding up in a dangerous "wrong neighborhood" with them. Ever. Totally unlike the black neighborhoods where merely being there was a serious threat to your health and several shootings began this way. Merely minding your own business and not bothering anyone was a great way to get shot. If you stopped staring at your toes for even a moment and accidentally made eye contact, God help you.

But they're equal, sure.

I hear you. Funny thing is - the white cucks who mod this down KNOW where the dangerous neighborhoods are and damn well know who lives there but they'll pretend it's all just random chance that happened to work out that way! If you press them theyll cite slavery/Jim Crow/whatever as if this is somehow a uniquely American phenomenon. Blacks are the most criminal underachieving underclass in every society where they're found. They're no better in black-run places free from "white oppression". And everyone can plainly see it!

Yet they are never responsible for any life choices they make. Ever. It's always someone else's fault. Always. If you treat them as true equals and hold them as accountable for their choices as any white person then you're a horrible terrible person. "De nile" ain't just a river in Egypt.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest there is no reason why extra frequencies could not be added. I suggest Broadcom chip licencing and % of sale price also has a bit to do with it, along with tied provisions that when fully disclosed are often declared illegal.

Xiaomi could be much much bigger if they open sourced the hardware and software and sponsored a custom build site. However I have heard international import restrictions may actually prevent this!! No certification - no impoty. EU is now tasking Android and browser bundling.

I suggest this state of affars will change. The longer the Chinese delay in an open phone - the more money Apple can suck. They could do this legally by posting the detail in Europe for EOL models.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

You sick fuck. Read this and stew in your hate.

"Africa was the world’s fastest-growing continent at 5.6% a year, and GDP is expected to rise by an average of over 6% a year between 2013 and 2023.[3][8] In 2017, the African Development Bank reported Africa to be the world’s second-fastest growing economy, and estimates that average growth will rebound to 3.4% in 2017, while growth is expected to increase by 4.3% in 2018. Growth has been present throughout the continent, with over one-third of Sub-Saharan Africa countries posting 6% or higher growth rates, and another 40% growing between 4% to 6% per year.[3] Several international business observers have also named Africa as the future economic growth engine of the world"

Re: More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you spell trump in all caps? Shill much?

Re: More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple isnt doomed, since they lost Steve's role in quality ensurance they are finally free to rip their customerbase off without anything in return. Profits should soar

Re:More to come

[johnsie]

Google and Facebook are spyware and collect a lot more data about people than anything Xioami collects. Not to mention all the thousands of smartphone apps that track your location and useage activities. Apple say they aren't but doing this, but I'd take that claim with a pinch of salt. Even this very web page on Slashdot sends tracking data to 8 different third party web domains (if you don't have a script blocker). Welcome to cloud based computing.

Re: More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Well their method of growing id by minimal hardware profit (not no hw profit like consoles, crazy Americans) but profit via apps n services (i think backgrounds n stuff) along with their whole ecosystem of non phone things.

So open isnt where they will be going anytime soon. Let see if someone can reach top 3 with your strategy.

I have a office laptop Xiaomi bag, nifty.

Re: More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Without reading your (helpful) link, and im from a developing country, those numbers while probably is high isnt impressive.

Getting a company from 50,000 usd profit on 500,000 usd sales to 134,000 usd profit on 1,500,000 sales is definitely hard, but note the % went down. Higher it is, the lower that % usually.

Look at Chinas numbers. Is it close?
Thats fast growing. (not meaning to say one race over another, just context in relativeness)

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Cite your sources. What you claim here on your shitty little racist-ridden hate-speech platform has never, ever been prooven. There has been plenty of baseless accusations, claims, and "reports", and investigation, but no proof of spyware has ever been found and presented.

It's sad that what used to be a great website has been taken over by a racist, hateful, paranoid xenophobiac such as yourself.

Re:More to come

[DNS-and-BIND]

Fun fact: you know who wrote the infamous false flag WMD memo that was used as justification to start the Iraq War? Robert S. Mueller III. Yup, the same one.

Video evidence of him lying to Congress. He gave the impression that the FBI, the trusted organization that would never lie, approved of the invasion as absolutely necessary. Because Iraq was going to give WMD to Al-Qaeda, despite Saddam utterly hating Islamists and Al-Qaeda utterly hating nationalists like Saddam.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you missed the parent's obvious sarcasm?

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

If FBI have incorrect information about Iraq it is because CIA lied to them.

Re:More to come

[Type44Q]

you

Who exactly were you under the impression you were speaking to?

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia was "crushingl the iPhone in India and China, too, at one point and clearly that lead to Apple going out of business. NOT.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

You sick fuck. Read this and stew in your hate.

"Africa was the world’s fastest-growing continent at 5.6% a year, and GDP is expected to rise by an average of over 6% a year between 2013 and 2023.[3][8] In 2017, the African Development Bank reported Africa to be the world’s second-fastest growing economy, and estimates that average growth will rebound to 3.4% in 2017, while growth is expected to increase by 4.3% in 2018. Growth has been present throughout the continent, with over one-third of Sub-Saharan Africa countries posting 6% or higher growth rates, and another 40% growing between 4% to 6% per year.[3] Several international business observers have also named Africa as the future economic growth engine of the world"

What that article conveniently leaves out: taken as a whole bloc (that is, averaging all the nations), about HALF of sub-Saharan Africa's GDP comes from foreign aid. Note that at least half a dozen nations' GDP is more than 75% foreign aid. Did you ever see a white nation run itself this way? Sub-Saharan Africa is immensely rich in terms of natural resources. It's pure mismanagement.

I came across that info while reading a blog detailing the ways people like Tony Blair, Bob Geldof and other powerful progressives are trying to effectively re-colonize Africa after issuing a "Report on Africa" detailing a large number of ways they feel Africans are unable to govern themselves. That's what is really happening in Africa and it's nothing new.

Were you ignorant about the facts yourself? Or were you counting on the ignorance of the rest of us? Like I said, maybe it is you who needs some Tough Love.

For what it's worth the HBD movement is not a bunch of backwoods redneck racists. It's well informed people who are drawing conclusions from facts. The more you research it yourself the more obvious those facts are and the more the whole "equality" deal shows itself for what it is, an article of religious faith that has never panned out. Meanwhile it costs us dearly in terms of money, social capital, and crime. I don't want to abuse blacks, oppress them, enslave them, or anything of the sort. I want to live apart from them.

Re:More to come

[dk20]

whenever we have this iphone vs android debate it is inevitable someone will post apple's profits as a "sign of success". Yes, Apple owns almost all the profit in the cell phone market, but no, they do not own the number of units sold.

what does this tell you? People are willing to pay a huge premium for an iphone.

If you are proud to contibute to the "11.5 billion in net income over the last quarter' good to you. Xiaomi has a rule around limiting the markup on their products, Apple has the opposite rule, take as much as they possibly can.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

I-phone dropped from 4% of India a few years ago to 1% today. Meanwhile India's economy is booming. It's because I-phone doesn't deliver value, it's just a fashion bauble for gullible people with bad taste in fashion.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

What that article conveniently leaves out: taken as a whole bloc (that is, averaging all the nations), about half of sub-Saharan Africa's GDP comes from foreign aid.

Maybe because it isn't true. This paper says between 5% and 20% over the years, lately in the 10% range.

Re:More to come

[Anonymous Coward]

What that article conveniently leaves out: taken as a whole bloc (that is, averaging all the nations), about half of sub-Saharan Africa's GDP comes from foreign aid.

Maybe because it isn't true. This paper says between 5% and 20% over the years, lately in the 10% range.

I notice you didn't reply to the European liberals' plan to recolonize Africa because they (with best of intentions) looked at the facts and saw that they are failing to govern themselves. But that's Slashdot, right? Just ignore anything inconvenient.

Name just one majority-white, white-ruled nation that requires anything like 10% of its GDP to be foreign aid. I'll wait.

Or a related question: name one black-ruled majority-black place where you would like to live. It doesn't have to be a foreign nation. It could be a place like Atlanta or Birmingham, where the majority black electorate has elected black officials in the city.

Re:More to come

[Tough Love]

I notice you didn't reply to blah blah blah

Because you are sick and disgusting. Sucks to be you.

Thats a lot of spyware.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet it makes Apple and Google jealous.

Re: Thats a lot of spyware.

[BanHammer]

You can use custom roms on most Xiaomi phones,and doing it on the Poco F1 will not void warranty.

Re: Thats a lot of spyware.

[johnsie]

Who makes the custom roms? Google, and some l33t h4ck0r who puts who knows what into the roms. There's no privacy on smartphones.

Re: Thats a lot of spyware.

[BanHammer]

Agree with you completely.

Re: Thats a lot of spyware.

[Type44Q]

As you can already figure out if you're not shilling, it obviously varies depending on the ROM.

I've had success with LineageOS (I'll only run official builds) - its stability on my S5 improved greatly after transitioning from Cyanogenmod.

Malware

[Anonymous Coward]

So much malware in these things...what a waste of time/work/resources just to spy on people.

Re:Malware

[johnsie]

Are you talking about Google App Framework, Facebook's data collecting, thousands of data mining apps or the Icloud? Pretty much everyone is doing it these days. There is no private smartphone.

Re:Malware

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes -- the phones do run Google Android and their apps. Very clever observation from you. But Google financial results will tell you that it's not a waste of time or resources.

Mi MIX 2S

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using a Mi Mix 2s now for about 4 months. Not officially released here in the US, got it imported. (No warranty) One of the best phones I've owned (and I've had my share.. it's a joke at my work about what phone am I using this month). I'm finally happy with a phone. Recommend. If you don't like the MIUI launcher, put Nova on it and it'll be more like the stock experience. The camera takes awesome pictures, the build quality is great. There's no reason to buy a Samsung or LG phone when you can have an equivalent Xiaomi at like half the price. I'll concede if you want more timely updates and a pure stock experience of course pay the money for the Pixel 2 (or 3). But on a budget Xiaomi makes some of the best phones for the price.

Re: Mi MIX 2S

[BanHammer]

Xiaomi has its own line of Android One phones for stock fans.Check out the MiA2: https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaom...

Re:Mi MIX 2S

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that some (many?) Xiaomi devices are supported by LineageOS.
Plus, even on MIUI they allow you to unlock the bootlaoader and put a stable(or unstable build) of MIUI rom with root enabled etc.

Re:Mi MIX 2S

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish Redmi 5 Plus (Vince) was supported, amazing budget phone

Re:Mi MIX 2S

[jbr439]

I've had a Redmi 6 for about a month. I put Nova on it and life's good. The Redmi 6 is not a power phone by any stretch of the imagination, but it is very good bang for the buck. Got mine from B&H Photo. Next phone will likely be a Xiaomi as well.

So where can I get one?

[Anonymous Coward]

I figure I'd rather have the Chinese Security Police tap my phone than the Trump regime.

Re:So where can I get one?

[ShanghaiBill]

You can buy Xiaomi phones on Amazon, eBay, etc.

I have one, but I only use it as my Chinese burner phone. It is a nice phone. I have never used it in America. I use an iPhone stateside.

Re:So where can I get one?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy Xiaomi phones on Amazon, eBay, etc.

I have one, but I only use it as my Chinese burner phone. It is a nice phone. I have never used it in America. I use an iPhone stateside.

So you're a dirth chink with something to hide?

You know the cheapest way to blindfold a Chinese right? Use dental floss!

Re: So where can I get one?

[BanHammer]

Have a friend who travels to India or China regularly? That is how I got mine for a great price. Beware that US networks may not be compatible with some of those phones.

Re:So where can I get one?

[johnsie]

I thought they arrested you in that trump van on Friday. Must have been some other nut.

China

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe Trump uses them. No wonder China can listen in.

100 Million Units of Phones?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Was that headline copied-and-pasted directly from Google Translate?

Re:100 Million Units of Phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. The Chinese headline translated directly as "Google hopes new smartphone makers will choose google"

Re:100 Million Units of Phones?

[ShanghaiBill]

Was that headline copied-and-pasted directly from Google Translate?

Probably. It is a direct translation from Chinese. "100 million cell phones" in Chinese is "Yi bu shouji". The "bu" is the "measure word" for cell phones (shouji) and translates roughly as "units", and that is how Google translates it.

Linguistic trivia: English occasionally uses "measure words", like "Five head of cattle", "Three ears of corn", "Two pieces of furniture". But in Chinese they are used for almost all nouns, and it is a real pain in the butt to try to remember which measure word goes with which noun. It can even depend on the shape. For instance you say "yi zhi gou" to mean "one zhi of dog" but if it is a long skinny dog like a dachshund you can say "yi tiao gou" where "tiao" is the measure word for long skinny things like belts or neckties, so it means roughly "one strip of dog".
 

Re:100 Million Units of Phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

So they can order a necktie and lunch all at once.

Re:100 Million Units of Phones?

[drinkypoo]

Was that headline copied-and-pasted directly from Google Translate?

No, it was copied-and-pasted directly from Xiaomi's PR department, which can surely afford to have a human check over a document after it has passed through Google Translate.

I wonder which country bought most of them?

[Anonymous Coward]

And I wonder what the mean cost of each phone was?

Nokia sold 460 million phones in 2010, unfortunately most of those were cheap low-margin phones.

We know what happened to Nokia.

Re: I wonder which country bought most of them?

[BanHammer]

They are the number one phone seller in India for sure.

Re:I wonder which country bought most of them?

[johnsie]

India, and they keep their profit margin down to be able to sell good quality phones at a better price.

Re:Mental illness is not real

[Anonymous Coward]

Mental illness is something Americans made up, because they fucked up running a society.

Just as "racism" was something American liberals made up, because they fucked up recognizing that What follows is the "shock" that those who want to be successful don't want to associate with those who would drag them down. Melanin has nothing to do with it.

Xiaomi == Budget Apple

[Qbertino]

I've crossed ways with Xiaomi Hardware a few times in the last 15 months or so because their also starting to make inroads in Europe. The price-performance is through the effing roof. I'm considering switching from Motorola to Xiaomi for my Smartphone and am eyeing a Xiaomi Air notebook as my next portable computer.
170 Euros for a 6.3" phone with 4/64gb of memory, an Octacore CPU and edge to edge display plus all other current niceties is pretty darn impressive. And the build quality is good and every Xiaomi owner I've spoken to is happy.

Re:More NIGGERDICKS to CUM in your MOUTH

[Bobrick]

Please elaborate.

Chinese Smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone buy a smartphone that is made in China just wants to spy on the world so they can steal more intellectual and political data.

Re:Chinese Smartphones

[johnsie]

Same reason as people buy phones with American data mining software like Google Framework, Facebook, Amazon, Icloud etc. They like the apps and are willing to sacrifice their privacy for some of the features provided. If you're concerned about privacy then you should probably avoid smartphones and/or the Internet.

Re:Chinese Smartphones

[Anonymous Coward]

No proof of what you say has ever surfaced. Meanwhile, remember the NSA/CIA leaks? Also, that iPhone you flash around as a status symbol is preloaded with (partly) American software, but other than that entirely made in China. Suck it up.

Re:Chinese Smartphones

[johnsie]

Iphone is as chinese an anything else.

Hello. To whom am I speaking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehro? Hehro? Dis Ching Chang Chong talk terrafone.

Re:More NIGGERDICKS to CUM in your MOUTH

[Anonymous Coward]

Please elaborate.

QOTD right now says "Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. -- Bill Vaughn".

Nor quite Mr. Vaughn. Suburbia is where you live to escape the thug gangsta nígger horde that's infested all the major cities and made them unsafe places to live and raise a family. And that's the fucking truth. What, you thought white-flight was a fear of melanin? No, it's a fear of minding your own business and getting randomly shot because of some gangsta. The melanin just happens to be the single most reliable way to gauge your chances of having this happen (blacks are 13%, yet account for 53.1% of all 2017 murders according to the FBI, meanwhile blacks murdering whites is about 12 times more often than the other way around).

The phones are phenomenal

[BanHammer]

As a Redmi Note 5 Pro owner,I have to say that this is well deserved and not surprising at all.The phone is excellent especially for something that costs around 200$. The Poco F1 is creating waves too,and along with Note 5 Pro's great battery,it also stays cool as a cucumber at all times. That Xiaomi phones provide bang for the buck is proven by the fact that they are the #1 seller in India And Xiaomi is going in the right direction overall as rooting the Poco F1 will not void warranty. Well deserved overall,and I think Americans and Canadians are missing out on some great budget phones which don't compromise on anything.

Re:The phones are phenomenal

[johnsie]

The reason they are the best value for money is because they use good parts, but don't add a massive markup to the price. This keep the prices down and the quality up.

Headphone jack!

[BanHammer]

They are better than apple phones as they come with an SD card slot,can be used with a custom rom and I dont have the benchmarks,but from user experience the battery life is better.

They can beat Apple

[BanHammer]

Xiaomi is the number one phone seller in India.

Using Mi A2. Like it.

[bdwoolman]

My Nexus 5X got Boot Loop of Death. Currently in Ulaanbaatar. Even the mobile phone magicians at the city's black market phone mall could do nothing for it. Grrrr. Past warranty of course. Shopped around and bought the Mi A2 for around three hundred USD. The Samsung phones with similar specs were nearly twice as much here in Mongolia (although comparable in the US.) The Mi A2 is an Android One phone which means fast updates and very little crapware. Snappy and stable. Camera is slightly inferior to the 5X but good enough for my purposes. I will see how it lasts, but so far very happy with it. Dual sim so I can pop my T-Mobile sim into it when I am in CONUS. Woot!

Re:Using Mi A2. Like it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just had the same experience. My Nexus 5X got the bootloop of death, tried baking the motherboard in the oven, got another 12 hours from it but then it gave up again. Unfortunately, Pixel phones are imo too expensive so I opted for an Android One instead. Got my Xiaomi A2 Lite from a local webstore (Sweden) for around 240 USD. Very impressed with this piece! Great battery life (can easily do two days between charges if I only do some surfing). Not completely free from bloat from the factory, but most of the nonsense apps from Google can be uninstalled. My employer just got me a Samsung that cost almost double (no Xiaomi - company policy), but it's crap compared with this phone - not so much for the hardware but the bloat is insane (Facebook and Linkedin preinstalled and cannot be removed - seriously!?) and the Samsung-perverted version of Android is just irritating. There is no obvious malware on the Xiaomi phone and just the fact that it is Chinese is really the only bad thing with this phone.

Proof that great minds think alike...

[bdwoolman]

d:-b