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Democrats Demand Info On Law Enforcement's Use of Amazon Facial Recognition Tool (thehill.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Hill: A group of Democratic lawmakers sent a letter to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos on Thursday saying that the company's previous explanations to Congress about its Rekognition software were inadequate. Democratic lawmakers expressed concern about the potential threat the technology poses to civil liberties in the hands of police. "Facial recognition technology may one day serve as a useful tool for law enforcement officials working to protect the American public and keep us safe," the letter reads. "However, at this time, we have serious concerns that this type of product has significant accuracy issues, places disproportionate burdens on communities of color, and could stifle Americans' willingness to exercise their First Amendment rights in public." In the letter on Thursday, the Democratic members requested that Amazon provide them with results from accuracy tests of the Rekognition software. They also asked again for information on their government clients and if they audited law enforcement's use of facial recognition to ensure that its not being employed in violation of civil rights law. "Customer trust, privacy, and security are our top priorities at AWS," Michael Punke, Amazon's vice president for global public policy, wrote in response. "We have long been committed to working with federal and state legislatures to modernize outdated laws to enhance the privacy and security of our customers by preventing law enforcement from accessing data without a warrant."

54 comments

  1. Michael by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

    Michael Punke-ass?

  2. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They always have been against effective law enforcement.

    We shouldn't fear the police going and looking for crime in general. We should fear the police looking at a specific person they hate for crimes. But it seems like many people are as against the former as the latter, likely due to believing that they do not or should not have to obey certain laws (see also: the thieving jerks from r/shoplifting and such who got banned a while ago).

    Granted, that isn't always as bright a line as we might like.

    1. Re:Well... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Problem is that we have too many laws against victimless crimes like jaywalking, smoking pot, having a beer under 21, and too many scum who are willing to put on a uniform and enforce them without any sort of flexibility.

      Get rid of laws against victimless crimes, THEN maybe we can talk about giving bullies in blue more power. Till then, enforcement is best done inefficiently.

    2. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Youre not entirely wrong. The police in my area are pretty good people, generally (I live in a rural are). My truck broke down when I was in high school once and an officer hopped under the hood with me to fix it. My brother is currently a state police officer.
       
      All that said, there is some seriously messed up racial stuff going on in many areas, and have a militarized police force is unacceptable. We dont even have a swat unit in my county, but crime is pretty low.

    3. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where were these hearings exactly?

    4. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who watches the watchers? It is easy to edit video. If the process isn't yet under government regulation it is going to be done in the cheapest way possible (due to economic competition with the businesses providing the video services) which allows the information to be easily manipulated (poor security, poor controls of the systems, i.e., missing footage, etc.). This should get worse when AI handles the work of lawyers, but for now, lets fix the spy cameras in American city street corners, so they get some regulation.

      If we really cared about having a functioning country, we would also ensure internet uptime was a mandatory 5x9s like landline telephones were in the past, but I understand that level of quality is likely impossible in America now.

    5. Re:Well... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Law enforcement is not being done any more inefficiently than friendly fire in Afghanistan or Iraq (insert all wars).

      Statistics demands imperfection.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    6. Re:Well... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The problem with "victimless crimes" is that it adds up in terms of tax money needed, insurance costs, repair work.
      The cost of emergency medical care. The cost of car insurance for everyone. The cost to a city to keep streets clean and free of waste and trash.
      Once a city gets a reputation as criminal, filled with trash and corrupt then new investment stops.

      Trashed lined streets, waste in the open, vandalism, open drug use, tent cities and crime do not attract jobs.
      The "'victims" are the people who have to pay tax, pay for cleaning up trash and waste, pay for repair work.
      All that is paid for by new costs to a city, the state and federally. The tax rates.
      To the cost of insurance every year.
      To people having to spend money on repair work after a crime rather than expanding their business.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:Well... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      This is where you tax drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes to account for medical costs created by them. Same with disposable packaging -- taxes to pay for environmental cleanup costs. Also, I don't count things like vandalism and pollution as "victimless."

    8. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I recently bid on a contract for public street cameras... I have loads of experience in the healthcare industry where audit trails are a huge deal, so I played up the regulatory vigor of our systems including every query to the facial rec portion... they went instead with the (more expensive less featured) system that has no audit trail.

    9. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when you take a "zero-tolerance" attitude towards these things it creates the very problems you listed.

      The subtext in your comments is that you think the reason why dirty trashy homeless people become homeless is because they are drug addicts. The reality is, those that are drug addicts, usually get that way after being on the street a while and losing hope. Losing hope has a lot to do with trashing the environment too. Furthermore, none of these addicts can get any type of actual assistance to better their situation because condition one of every homeless help program is pee test for drugs. So those that really need the help the most can't get it. All because of your backwards "moral" stance that is actually just thinly veiled hatred.

    10. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police in my area are pretty good people

      That's great and all, but what happens when they're replaced by people who aren't?

    11. Re:Well... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      A community cannot just keep letting trash pile up. Letting criminals do crime down every street. Let waste flow down streets in once nice communities.
      The tax collected to clean up the results will use up all collected tax. The health costs of related medical conditions. The workers needed to clean the streets every day.
      The new tax rate will make anyone with money move to another state, city to escape further city tax increases.
      The city then needs more money to clean streets as more trash and waste builds up every day. Ask the federal government for medical funding to prevent disease transmission from waste in the open streets?
      A city cannot keep on adding to its debt every year so random people can place waste and trash in the streets every day.
      Crime cannot just expand deeper into good parts of a city as taxes fail to keep a city safe.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    12. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > That's great and all, but what happens when they're replaced by people who aren't?

      The other problem is that criminals pretty much all hate the cops with a passion for busting them, so the sample is biased and to hear it told, every guy in prison is "innocent" and got a bad rap. Sure, there are some who actually did get a bad rap or whatever, but if you believe that most of them are telling the truth, I've got a whole lot of bridges to sell you.

    13. Re:Well... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Other than things that harm others, "crime" is often a matter of definition. Dancing in clubs used to be criminal. Marrying someone of a different race used to be a crime.

    14. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. Not so thinly veiled anymore.

    15. Re:Well... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      How many crimes per street should police allow?
      What kind of crimes? How much property damage to what cost of repair is still not a "crime"?
      Who pays for such proper damage? The city? The owner? The people in a community who pay for a service from that business pay extra to cover the result of decades crime?
      How party political should police get with their policing and reporting of crimes?

      How sick should workers trying to get to work every day get when moving around a city?
      Whats a low count of vermin in the trash of a normal city in an advanced nation?
      How blocked can streets be with tent cities and parked RV?
      Keep going until the city totally fails? Epidemic? Go for a full pandemic as a city fails?

      Who wants to create jobs in such low quality city conditions in a "modern" nation?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    16. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you don't actually believe there's some messed up racial stuff going on around the country? Or do you just believe that your city is immune to hiring assholes? Taken together, your statements don't make any sense.

    17. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of those drug crimes aren't so harmless.

      It's one thing if it's some guy smoking weed at home. Whatever man, have fun and leave other people alone. It's another thing if it's a crack addict and they become so desperate for drugs that they start robbing people, mugging, etc. The problem is that it breeds crime that causes lots of victims and it directly supports the criminal enterprises of the people who deliver them.

      It's amazing to me that so many people are aghast at the idea that the drug laws create a black market indirectly, but then have no qualms about handing money straight to the rapists and murderers in the cartels as if that should somehow be exempt

    18. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I posted the part about my town and the decent cops. Im not the guy you just replied to.

    19. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know any Neo-Nazis?
      I used to know a few of them.
      Great guys all of them, wouldn't hurt a fly.

      On the other hand I don't know how they interacted with immigrants so perhaps they were less great when I wasn't around.

      Are the cops decent to all people or just to you?

    20. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are scores of homeless people in SF and the Bay Area. Literally workers with jobs living in tents and trucks because they can't afford rent. They is e the streets was their bathrooms. And that's not even counting the real homeless with no jobs and no income.

      You were saying?

  3. Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    to get criminals who once expected to get away with years of crimes.
    The criminal will get caught and the community is made safe.
    Seen by CCTV and reported. Identified. Less illegal migrants using city/state/federal services that US tax payers pay for.

    Less crime and the community is cleaned up. Investment returns and good people get well paying jobs.
    Clean streets without trash and junk. No parked RV. No tent cities. No trash blocking streets. No open drug use.
    Good communities can get on with education, working, faith, sport and enjoying been productive.
    Having the tools of your trade protected by police from criminals.
    No street crime. No burglaries. No trash from open drug use.
    To allow the pursuit of happiness for every US community protected from decades of criminals.
    For that police all over the USA need the tools to remove criminals holding back once great communities all over the USA.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Police have advanced tech by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      The real criminals are often the ones in law enforcement and in the courts. Civil forfeiture abuse, excessive bail, excessive sentences to bully people into plea bargains that are lucrative for the jurisdictions.

      But if you're really that much of a fucking coward and desire a perfectly sterile society, go move to Singapore.

    2. Re:Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      A community in a democracy such as the USA can "vote" to remove such officials.
      Let the police have the tools and powers to clean up a community so it can be a nice place to work and live in.
      No more criminals allowed to move around freely and commit crime for decades. Less tax to pay for the results of their crimes. Thats more investment money in a community.

      Got a civil forfeiture problem? Vote for different officials.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Police have advanced tech by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that elections in the US matter, what with unlimited money from corporate scum who have interests in influencing them (military-industrial complex, private prison/cop union parasite interests). Plus voter suppression is a real thing.

    4. Re:Police have advanced tech by fafalone · · Score: 2

      You act as if the police are some perfect force that effect only the lives of criminals. That's not true. They violate the rights of innocent people all the time, from the black kid getting profiled and searched on the corner to the middle class white family that has their door kicked in at 4am with them and their children held on the floor at gunpoint because a snitch made up an address or they simply raided the wrong house. Their tech tools are intercepting all forms of communication from innocent people all the time. And you think this power never gets exploited by others, or police themselves, for non-criminal matters? There's a whole range of private activities that are not illegal (nor should be) that can be used to destroy someones life, and the more of that information the police get, the more it gets abused.
      Giving police more power hurts non-criminals just as much as the criminals themselves, and the police state of your fantasy used to be recognized as the nightmare for the people that it is.

    5. Re:Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 0

      Would any corporate investment want to move to a city with waste, trash, a parked RV, crime and open drug use problem?
      To tell their skilled workers they will have to step around trash and waste to get to work?
      That their educated workers will have to face a rising crime rate to and from work?
      That tax rates will rise again due to the costs of trash, waste and crime?

      If "voter suppression" was real it would see a change of government?
      Who would vote again and again for a government who allows crime, trash, more tax, no investment, no jobs and waste for decades and generations?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Police have advanced tech by forty-2 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you're so scared. Who hurt you?

      --
      never drink kool-aid from a big vat
    7. Re:Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      vs the reality of trash filled streets. Criminals walking around free and ready to comment crimes for decades?
      The costs of vandalism that local business has to pay for?
      Police do not waste their limited budgets and time doing "profiled and searched" in low crime areas.
      Police now have real time maps and GUI software to show areas of a city that have "crime". Lots of crime all day and night.
      Thats the part of a city police stay in to find lots of criminals. The profile fits on average so police know to stay in some areas of a city with high crime rates. Searched people get results in terms of drugs, criminals found with the tools and results of crime.
      Lots of police in a low crime ares would be a waste of tax payers money and take away from police support needed in criminal areas of a city.
      Should police be without needed support in high crime ares where they know they will need constant support?
      Police can't be funded to just wonder around in very large numbers in very low crime parts of the city.
      To better use the low budgets they have, police use the decades of the "profile" math to focus in on actual criminals and the locations criminals are often found.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:Police have advanced tech by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      You think the cops don't know the identity of people living in tent cities? They drive up, and see them keep shooting. The system cannot absorb them. It costs more to keep someone in prison than to just give them food and let them die on the street. Hell, it costs more to keep someone in prison then just give them a place to live, food and medicine too.

      Maybe it could end muggings, but living in a panopticon seems like a pretty high price to pay. Oh, wait, masks exist.

      Further, it's pretty obvious this will be abused. I mean, do you remember the "LoveInt" scandal where analysts used Patriot Act powers to cyberstalk love interests?

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    9. Re:Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /sarcasm

    10. Re:Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seen by CCTV and reported. Identified. Less illegal migrants using city/state/federal services that US tax payers pay for.

      Illegal immigrants aren't in the system and can't be caught by automated CCTV.

      You clearly think this solves problems it doesn't solve and you clearly think that some people are causing issues they aren't.
      Maybe it would be a good idea to not have a too strong opinion of this and let people who actually done research about the consequences speak instead?

    11. Re:Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're into socialism, move to Venezuela.

      If you don't like law, move to any shit-hole country where the militias are in control.

      b0s0z0ku - Sweet summer child who don't hasn't experienced/ doesn't know what the f**k winter is.

      People pushing the 'down with the law' bull are the ones who don't really positively contribute to society to begin with.

    12. Re:Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      AC the results of the decades of "consequences" can be seen in US cities.
      Drug addicts, trash, waste. Tent cities and parked RV. A crime rate in parts of city areas.

      To keep on using the same politics will just result in more crime, more waste, more junk, more blocked streets.
      The city areas need new investment. That needs crime to stop. The waste and trash to be cleaned. Vandalism to stop.
      Utilities have to be upgraded. That might bring in new investment and some tax revenue from profitable businesses.

      Allowing more crime, more criminals will not result in a better city. Having illegal migrants use city services is a cost to the city.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re: Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The freedom and laws of the US have always been great. Except for black people, they were (are?) brutalized and oppressed by the white people who control the government. Black people have good reason to be concerned about government power because it was (is?) used to kill them, take their property, and do other things to them.

    14. Re: Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything you said seems reasonable if we ignore how white people have used the government to oppress (even enslave) black people. Everything the government does was be considered with race in mind. It's our unfortunate inheritance.

    15. Re: Police have advanced tech by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      AC its even more simple. Spread the police all over a city and the "radio assignments pending" problem starts to add up to hours.
      Thats why a city wide profile works so well. Lots of police in an area they know is going to need support.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    16. Re: Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you wanna police state and need the government to protect you so bad, move to Russia or China. Fuck off, we don't want or need a police state.

    17. Re: Police have advanced tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more you post, the more you sound like a privelaged brat who's never even stepped in a city by himself.

      You sound like a scared petulant child. Why does the city scare you so much?

  4. Republicans object because ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... it's their face.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  5. Look, people are getting tagged as apes... by DallasTruaxxx · · Score: 2

    I'm not willing to allow the police to seek a warrant based upon any companies facial recognition software until that bull roar is long in the past. Like, decades. Sending people with guns to someone's home, in the wee hours, gets folks killed. It's bad enough that no-knock raids happen at the wrong address occasionally, lets not add to the problem.

    1. Re: Look, people are getting tagged as apes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only black people are getting targeted as apes so some people are ok with that.

  6. Lies. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    "Customer trust, privacy, and security are our top priorities at AWS," Michael Punk

    This is a lie. None of those thing are priorities if it does not turn a profit. Only AFTER they can make a profit are any of those things considered a priority.

    Just remember kids, global corporations only care about getting your money. The fact that you are involved in the process is entirely secondary.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  7. Liberals my ass. by Chas · · Score: 1

    What the fuck about top-down, authoritarian controlled, dystopian panopticon government is "liberal"?

    Yet that's what these dumbasses are touting...

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:Liberals my ass. by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but both the left and the right have their authoritarian assholes. Being pro-dictatorship doesn't mean that you aren't liberal, for many current uses of the word.

      The actual fact is that every political party is run by people who want to control other people, including the Libertarians. Listening to their rhetoric will usually reveal this, but sometimes you need to watch their actions. And this isn't happenstance, it's because those who don't want power don't seek power. So left, right, liberal, conservative, even many anarchist parties are run by people who want control. Some of them are more socially destructive than others, but that's a different argument (and in that one I'd argue that details are extremely significant...but one of the significant details is "What happens after the next election, when a different group gets into power?"

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  8. interesting that they are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    interesting that the senate are relying on a private company to uphold the law rather than trust the law enforcement agencies which are their customers "They also asked again for information on their government clients and if they audited law enforcement's use of facial recognition to ensure that its not being employed in violation of civil rights law" - it looks like event the senate can't trust the law enforcement.

  9. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They afraid that it will be used to find democrats perpetuating voter fraud?

    There's no privacy in public.

  10. "people of color"? Are we back in the 1950s? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are we calling people "colored" again? Have people forgotten or just not learned of the history of these words?

    Everyone has a color, there are no invisible people. Calling someone "colored" was for the purposes of segregation and separation.

    I think a more accurate term with a less disgusting history would just simply be "non-white"

  11. But Hillary says the all look alike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "places disproportionate burdens on communities of color"

  12. let's read between the lines by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

    "However, at this time, we have serious concerns that this type of product has significant accuracy issues, places disproportionate burdens on communities of color, and could stifle Americans' willingness to exercise their First Amendment rights in public."

    As usual, if not for hypocrisy and propaganda they'd have nothing at all.

    The letter goes on to specifically mention concern about immigration enforcement using this technology. Well, doesn't this dovetail nicely with opposition to voter ID and enacting 'sanctuary' states, and calls to abolish immigration enforcement entirely.

    Doing the right thing, but for all the wrong reasons. Chess is not played for the sake of pawns like Molly Tibbets. Maintaining respect for the rule of law, and equal protection thereof, means nothing compared to the importance of staying in power.