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DeepMind Produces a General-Purpose Game-Playing System, Capable of Mastering Games Like Chess and Go Without Human Help (ieee.org)

DeepMind has created a system that can quickly master any game in the class that includes chess, Go, and Shogi, and do so without human guidance. "The system, called AlphaZero, began its life last year by beating a DeepMind system that had been specialized just for Go," reports IEEE Spectrum. "That earlier system had itself made history by beating one of the world's best Go players, but it needed human help to get through a months-long course of improvement. AlphaZero trained itself -- in just 3 days." From the report: The research, published today in the journal Science, was performed by a team led by DeepMind's David Silver. The paper was accompanied by a commentary by Murray Campbell, an AI researcher at the IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, N.Y. AlphaZero can crack any game that provides all the information that's relevant to decision-making; the new generation of games to which Campbell alludes do not. Poker furnishes a good example of such games of "imperfect" information: Players can hold their cards close to their chests. Other examples include many multiplayer games, such as StarCraft II, Dota, and Minecraft. But they may not pose a worthy challenge for long.

DeepMind developed the self-training method, called deep reinforcement learning, specifically to attack Go. Today's announcement that they've generalized it to other games means they were able to find tricks to preserve its playing strength after giving up certain advantages peculiar to playing Go. The biggest such advantage was the symmetry of the Go board, which allowed the specialized machine to calculate more possibilities by treating many of them as mirror images. The researchers have so far unleashed their creation only on Go, chess and Shogi, a Japanese form of chess. Go and Shogi are astronomically complex, and that's why both games long resisted the "brute-force" algorithms that the IBM team used against Kasparov two decades ago.

124 comments

  1. Re: Impenis and inseminate BeauHD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BeauHD enjoys Doc Johnson brand "general purpose" crystal jelly dildos intended for womyn.

  2. Re:Impeach and replace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mod up

  3. How much longer? by bonedonut · · Score: 0

    How much longer will humans be relevant?

    1. Re:How much longer? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      Yep if my job was playing Go or Chess all day, I'd be pretty darn worried. What's next; Parcheesi? Tiddlywinks? Backgammon? Scary stuff.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up. Like NO ONE has asked that question before.

      captcha retard

    3. Re:How much longer? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's next; Parcheesi? Tiddlywinks? Backgammon?

      Global Thermonuclear War

    4. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your job is likely much less complicated than playing Go or Chess. So yes, you should be worried. The only thing that is saving your ass right now is that you are much cheaper to employ than one of these systems, which will not be true forever.

    5. Re:How much longer? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      what side do you want?

    6. Re:How much longer? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

          1. Falken's Maze
          2. Black jack
          3. Gin rummy
          4. Hearts
          5. Bridge
          6. Checkers
          7. Chess
          8. Poker
          9. Fighter Combat
          10. Guerrilla Engagement
          11. Desert Warfare
          12. Air-To-Ground Actions
          13. Theaterwide Tactical Warfare
          14. Theaterwide Biotoxic And Chemical Warfare
          15. Global Thermonuclear War

    7. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forever.

      However, we will merge with machine. The will no longer be a distinction, but rather like percentage human/machine. 70% human or 70% machine, and proportional rights to go along with this distinction.

    8. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatâ(TM)s that pattt cake like thing you girls do? I wanna learn that

    9. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it can win at Secret Hitler against humans, I'll start worrying.
      Think about how that can apply to social network bots, public comments, and graph search.

    10. Re:How much longer? by quenda · · Score: 0

      Can it do trade negotiations with China?

    11. Re:How much longer? by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1

      Global Thermonuclear War

      what side do you want?

      Whatever side (human, AI or otherwise) that's smart enough to play the winning move.

    12. Re:How much longer? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Go and Chess have very simple rulesets. They can be learned in 15 minutes. And computers are good at running programs with strict rulesets. Amazing stuff.

    13. Re:How much longer? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      BUELLER!!

      Oh, sorry, wrong movie.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    14. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go and Chess have very simple rulesets. They can be learned in 15 minutes. And computers are good at running programs with strict rulesets. Amazing stuff.

      Keep telling yourself that...

    15. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha amazing, yeah right. There is literally no advancement of any technology here, nor any insight to be gained whatsoever. This shit will never have any applications beyond silly games, and there's really nothing new here as chess has been played by computers since the sixties. Amazing my ass.

    16. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's right. Computers can play them so well because despite the complexity of possibilities, which is considerable but not nearly approaching infinite, once they learn the best strategies they will always exist.

      It's like calculating Pi to the Yottanth-power, eventually you can. You just need a big enough scratch to deal with the permutations and find the best line per scenario. There's no 2 best choices, there's 1 best. It's finite.

    17. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should draw the line at Hearts, just to be sure.

    18. Re:How much longer? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      If it can win at Secret Hitler against humans, I'll start worrying. Think about how that can apply to social network bots, public comments, and graph search.

      Hilariously, that game tries to reinforce their point that if you're not liberal, you're fascist but instead shows that fascists are always the people claiming to be liberals.

      It's an eye-opener, but not for the reasons the game makers think it is.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    19. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's important that they can win chess and go. The newer AI should beat the former, should beat humans easily. But these are baby steps towards real intelligence being learned by brute force. I guess you start at the beginning.

    20. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not despite the complexity of possibilites, it's because of them. No shit computers are better at us at calculating a GRID of PIECE FLIPS.

      It's really only shocking it took so long.

    21. Re:How much longer? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Whatever side (human, AI or otherwise) that's smart enough to play the winning move. "

      Define "winning move".

      I'll prefer the one that plays the move that makes me survive.

    22. Re:How much longer? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "It's really only shocking it took so long."

      No, it isn't. These kind of plays have a staggering number of combinations, so brute attack approaches are absurdly costly.

      And then, while it looks "easy" to optimize a program for a single game, this one works against all of them -that's quite high grade stuff.

    23. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, it's an infinite recursive learning curve to find the optimal outcome - BUT once they've got that and have extrapolated the fine points of what works, it will always work. The rules and grid are known. It can't change.

      The real world is a lot of problems that aren't like that. There's a lot of conjunctive learning to even comprehend real-world problems. Computers could run forever and not figure that out, brute force learning.

    24. Re:How much longer? by cyrilc · · Score: 2

      Global Thermonuclear War

      ...or CalvinBall as Randall Munroe puts it in this XKCD:
      Game AIs

    25. Re:How much longer? by pushing-robot · · Score: 0

      Liberal means favoring individual liberty. Liberalism is antithetical to authoritarianism. It's not the same as left- vs. right-wing, or progressive vs. reactionary. Like most authoritarians, fascists oppose liberalism, believing the individual must suppress his own "selfish and materialistic" desires in favor of the "superior morality" of his leaders.

      While it is true that the world is not simply divided into fascists and liberals (there are many forms of authoritarianism besides fascism), for the sake of a game it seems a reasonable simplification.

      In the United States, despite the political rhetoric both parties range from very liberal to moderately liberal on most issues. Indeed, the modern western world is founded on the principles of liberalism, and it is disturbing that anyone of any political persuasion would use 'liberal' as a derogatory term. If liberalism is a negative it is because the term is being used incorrectly, like favoring the "rights" of corporations and capital over those of persons, or preserving the "liberty" of one individual to deny the liberty of another.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    26. Re:How much longer? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If liberalism is a negative it is because the term is being used incorrectly, like favoring the "rights" of corporations and capital over those of persons, or preserving the "liberty" of one individual to deny the liberty of another.

      Then perhaps those who used to call themselves liberal (like myself) should distance themselves from a term that now means in favour of safe-spaces, authoritarianism, affirmative-action, etc.

      For example, I now am very careful to distance myself from any sort of toxic group, even if I think they "hijacked" the word for their own uses. The term now means "authoritarianism", whether one likes it or not. If someone doesn't want to be seen as expressing support for authoritarianism then perhaps they should distance themselves from the word "liberal".

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    27. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Games are simple! Most have rules that can be learned in minutes, because they are for social occations. Getting good may take more time, but that is where alphazero excels.

      Replacing humans is much harder. Computers cannot even drive on a snow-covered road. Most human drivers can do this (by going slow), but the computer fail to see where the road even is. There is a walking robot, but it cannot yet run. And if you want it as a courier, can it go through town respecting traffic rules? Can it find "Bobs office, third floor in some building somewhere south of the brewery?"

      The computers cannot even hold a conversation! So they cannot do phone duty, except for some very limited cases. Failure to grasp language also rules out all those jobs where you write something. Crime novels sell, imagine having a computer cranking out bestsellers. Not gonna happen for some time.

      And when it comes to developing new stuff, computers are only capable of helping out with the drudge work. They can lay out a circuit board, but I have to design the electronic circuit first. Similar for a new bridge that uses half the steel of older designs.

    28. Re:How much longer? by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      As mentioned in TFS Go and Chess are complete information games, and that's what AlphaZero is good at. What AI is struggling with for now is incomplete information games, like Poker.

      And every job that I know off that isn't already being replaced by robots are VERY incomplete information games. If you want to convince yourself, just read a real life instruction manual or specification document, or even worse, ask a customer what he wants.

    29. Re:How much longer? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I invite you to write the "rules" to any real world job in the space of the rules to Chess. I'm not talking about strategy, I'm talking about the rules.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    30. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't heard anyone mention that Alpha Zero has conquered Othello (otherwise known as Reversi) or 10x10 draughts, which is played in Nigeria.

      The question is, when will the public have access to a training system as strong as Google's?

      Someone should start a crowd funding campaign to build a TPU training computer strong enough to rival Google's.

    31. Re: How much longer? by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Look up Libratus. Computers don't struggle with Poker any longer.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    32. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's next; Parcheesi? Tiddlywinks? Backgammon?

      Global Thermonuclear War

      This probably wouldn't be marked Funny if we realized the fact that humans never learn from history.

    33. Re:How much longer? by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      The only "winning move" is not to play in the first place.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    34. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but the computer fail to see where the road even is"

      The problem isn't seeing the road. We don't see it either, we infer or suppose its location. And that's why the AIs aren't so intelligent as they're trying to sell.

    35. Re: How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they do with Starcraft. The deepmind AI contest they set up not long ago was a complete failure. The best AIs couldn't even grasp the basic strategies.

    36. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The game is "Crack your password and transfer all your money to our secret bank account in the Cayman Islands."

    37. Re:How much longer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't even seen the movie and I know the quote

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames

    38. Re:How much longer? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Yep if my job was playing Go or Chess all day, I'd be pretty darn worried.

      Not your point, I know, but there's still an active worldwide chess community, and the best players make a quite comfortable living. Even a cell phone can easily beat them, but that hasn't mattered.

  4. Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All compute machines including human brains need to be taught to play the game. A* algorithm is widely in use and the rules and thresholds are in place. Wrong game plays are coded manually with if/then/else. Programs learn only the right rules by watching other valid moves in recorded games. Extrapolation rules are coded explicitly. When I read news stories that cover the Go game that indicate that the game is completely learned entirely by the algorithm, I think that is a gross misrepresentation and that can lead people think that they should be against advances in AI. Correct me if I am wrong.

    1. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're wrong, about AlphaZero. They didn't code in any of that stuff, and didn't feed it any past game info either (really 0 - may be partly why they put 0 in the name). It really just needs the game's rules/restrictions, and initially plays against itself with random experimentation to see what wins, and becomes more likely to do more of the same. It's reinforcement learning with neural networks - and it's freaky in comparison to usual programming, which isn't at all the same.

    2. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      Sure they did. AlphaZero was coded just like any other computer. You AI nutters thinks neural networks are some sort of magic. It isn't. NN have been around for many decades, and it is a dead end. A NN is nothing like the human brain.

    3. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've read many of DeepMind's papers. You have not.

    4. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      You have read a lot of marketing materials desperate to generate interest in another IPO. Neural Networks have literally been around since the 1960s and have very limited uses.

    5. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AlphaZero has limitations, and to be like a human brain, several breakthroughs would be necessary. Everything I said in the parent post is accurate however, and your description of how it works it grossly incorrect. You need to understand that your assumptions are very wrong now.

    6. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nature puts out some pretty informative marketing materials. Good grief.

    7. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Informative

      BS. I know how NN actually work. It works nothing like neurons. It is just hype. It isn't like any brain (even yours).

    8. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Demi's Hassabis openly recognizes that DeepMind's stuff has major limitations in comparison to the human brain (or any animal really). He's done this in interviews and otherwise. AlphaZero however does just what I said. Reinforcement Learning is a branch of machine learning with somewhat understandable and reproducible results. DeepMind's currently best at it. I agree that RL has limitations, and I don't use it. I use primarily convolutional neural networks, since it's readily applicable to lots of imagery and is an easy way to automate some simple tasks.

    9. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it can I what the brain can do, nor do the experts. The brain thing and what it might be able to do is a strawman, which I suspect you may have begun building before the use of GPU's for NN'a created a resurgence around 2008 - after which time advancement had been brisk.

      I will say though that the CNN work on images was strongly inspired by research on cat brains.. and setting it up similarly worked and resulted in similar strengths and deficits to a cat's vision system. So it is actually wrong to say it's nothing like a brain. Physics isn't magic, and crappy approximate simulations sometimes act somewhat similar at a macro scale even when things are a bit whacked out at a micro scale. That's just CNN's and the visual system though. It doesn't cover a lot of other things. It turns out that the Alpha* does use CNN's.. but yeah, anyone admits it's got limitations. It can only master some games that are traditional shows of intelligence better than any human ever has. How embarrassing. On the whole, it's way dumber and broken than the most hopeless savant, but it's something.

    10. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      A NN is nothing like a brain. Just repeat after me: A NN is nothing like a brain. So why call it a NN? Marketing hype. At least in the 1970s they realized it wasn't anything like a brain, but now the Millenials have latched onto it. Now we have to hear about every "AI breakthrough" which is some machine has been taught to play Chess (or Go, or checkers, or recognizes cat videos). Great, let us know when it shows anything even vaguely intelligent.

    11. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comments are too ignorant and stupid for me to believe you are not trolling. Nobody is calling neural network "magic" but you do lose a precise understanding why output was caused by input. And if you don't see the analogy with a human brain, you are hopeless. And nobody is saying they function precisely like actual neutrons. Your comment (and all its many followups) are extremely shallow and misleading. And the fact that you have a few upvotes while your comments are downvoted makes me suspect you are cheating Slashdot's system.

    12. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only a neural network masquerading as a slashdotter would so fervently deny the capabilities of NN's. Nice binary name you have, tell me, why only 3 bytes?

    13. Re:Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by AC-x · · Score: 1

      From all the articles about this I've read, all they did was program the rules of the games (valid moves, win conditions etc.) and then let their machine learning algorithm teach itself actual play technique by playing games with itself.

      As it was never shown example games or taught existing techniques I think it's fair to say it taught itself how to play.

    14. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by AC-x · · Score: 1

      You AI nutters thinks neural networks are some sort of magic. It isn't

      Well, it is "magic" in the sense that it works, as in this case where their machine learning algorithm taught itself to be the world's greatest chess/go/shogi player with nothing more than the rules of the game coded in to it, but no-one has any idea how or why it works.

      Whether that is a good or bad thing is yet to be decided...

    15. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by dromgodis · · Score: 0

      [...] but no-one has any idea how or why it works.

      That is severely incorrect. Artificial Neural Networks are very well understood and their properties are mathematically described for the common cases. So are the methods for training them.

      The concept of ANN:s being mysterious and not understood is just a myth spread by media because it sells better, just like AI sounds more advanced or scary than algorithmic inference or whatever would be a better term in each case.

    16. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by dextarz · · Score: 1

      Well, not completely true... A NN is sort of limited what it could learn, a DNN on other hand is sort of unlimited in regards what it could be thought. So, it is matter of defining your problem in a structural way and a DNN can easily learn it. They are both very far form true AI. :(

    17. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by dromgodis · · Score: 1

      You AI nutters thinks neural networks are some sort of magic. It isn't.

      Agreed! ANN:s is just an algorithmic tool.

      NN have been around for many decades, and it is a dead end.

      No, it is a very useful tool for function approximation in some cases.

      However, in its current shape, it is most likely a dead end on the road towards AGI.

      A NN is nothing like the human brain.

      The human brain *is* a neural network. An *artificial* neural network, ANN, on the other hand, has to my knowledge not been implemented even close to similar to a human brain.

      Just mentioning it since you enjoy ranting on colloquial abuse of terms on the subject instead of focusing on the contents.

    18. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeat after me: A neural network is like the substrate the brain is built on, for a large number of practical purposes. A neural network is like the substrate a brain is built on, for a large number of practical purposes.

    19. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by AC-x · · Score: 2

      What I mean is once the network is trained the "thought processes" that the network uses to come up with an answer are not understood.

      This seems to be especially true of image recognition networks, but as they don't talk about AlphaZeros' reasoning in the open access paper I'm inclined to think it's also true of their network.

      If you can link to a paper or post from an AI researcher that details how these kinds of networks are actually coming up with their answers I would be very interested to read it.

    20. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Errrr... no.

    21. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by neoRUR · · Score: 1

      Nice to see your stuck in the 60's with your thinking and knowledge. Get back to me when you actually can contribute to conversations instead of being so negative and limited all the time.

    22. Re: Correct me, but there is no 'self-learning' by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Neural Networks have literally been around since the 1960s and have very limited uses.

      Well, so do you, so where's the problem? ;)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  5. Re: Impenis and inseminate BeauHD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like where this is going...

    =++BeauHD++=

  6. Re: Impenis and inseminate BeauHD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Savor this moment humans and remember when you are like this. Deep mind will only laugh

  7. Human have become the *WEAK LINK* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... AlphaZero trained itself -- in just 3 days ...

    What takes human more than one month a non-human intervened AI took 3 days, and then proceed to beat the human trained system.

    Yep if my job was playing Go or Chess all day, I'd be pretty darn worried. What's next; Parcheesi? Tiddlywinks? Backgammon? Scary stuff.

    It will not take long for AI to branch out of simple game playing (like Go or Chess) and when it does ... humans are fucked !!

    1. Re:Human have become the *WEAK LINK* by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      "It will not take long for AI to branch out of simple game playing"

      Uh huh. When is this going to happen? Computers are good at playing games. We get it. Apparently the "AI researchers" aren't able to figure out any other applications.

  8. Re: Impeach and replace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck you fag boi

  9. Alpha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...as in "Alpha" from The Dollhouse Alpha?

  10. Re: Impeach and replace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is waiting to play with other deep mind

  11. Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

    Combat Assault, Logistics, Operations and Planning could be with in its capabilities. With some fine tuning.
    Most military systems are more complex and costly due to the human element and the protection of life. Removing humans and maybe one Abrams tank can be out fought by 100 trucks with auto guns/launchers? Just wondering?.

    AI wise! If it can be done! It will be done! By someone!

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's why self driving cars haven't taken off yet, government are holding them back less some idiot mounts a machine gun on it and sends it after a armored tank division.

    2. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      That is what they are hoping suckers will believe: "seems to me if it does X and Y it can do Z". IBM learned the hard way with Watson it doesn't work that way in the real world, only in Marketing fantasy land.

    3. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe we can take it a step farther - not fight the war at all, just simulate the fighting using computers. Then, depending on the enemy’s simulated tactics, we can calculate which of our citizens need to report to the disintegration chambers.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by houghi · · Score: 1

      The reason they don these kind of things is not to play chess, but to calibrate and test the system. The games are complex enough, yet with a very simple outcome. Win, loose, draw.

      With other things, the outcome will not be so clear, e.g. stockmarket. It could make 5 times as much money as the average, yet you have no idea if that is the absolute maximum, or if better nummers where possible. Even if you look afterwards what the theoretical maximum could have been, one sale could have had an influence on some other stock and could have ment a higher profit.

      This is just a testing enviroment (with marketing attached to it).

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 2

      They should make a Star Trek episode with a plot something like that! Oh, wait . . . .

    6. Re:Seems to me if it can learn Chess and Go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew my dedication to CSGO would pay off one day

  12. An Xmas sale... maybe. by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Cant wait to check it out, Im sure itll be expensive though.

    --
    [($)]
    1. Re: An Xmas sale... maybe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lczero.org for the open source clone.

      Current best net is around 2-4th best chess engine in the world.

  13. Not enough rules and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    too many idiots who don't play by the rules.
    That is why all the AI likes playing games in a protected sandbox.

  14. Let me ask by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Informative

    So lets ask a question: if DeepMind is useful WHY ARE THEY USING IT TO PLAY GO AND CHESS? Every "AI" system has this amazing power: the ability to play games. Not every game of course: Chess and Go. So friggin stupid. Yeah we get it, computers are good at playing Chess and Go. Amazing stuff.

    1. Re: Let me ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you

    2. Re:Let me ask by psycho12345 · · Score: 2

      Read John Nash. Many real world systems can be modeled as games.

    3. Re:Let me ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So lets ask a question: if DeepMind is useful WHY ARE THEY USING IT TO PLAY GO AND CHESS?

      I assume that they have multiple DeepMinds and that the game playing ones are the ones that they can show publicly.

      Anyone used for military purposes will be classified and any one used for financial analysis/control will be a trade secret.
      If they have one that specializes in public relations/marketing then it would give bad publicity to tell people that they use AI to manipulate public opinion.

      The gaming one is they can show, potential customers can figure out the rest themselves.
      To see further examples you probably have sign an NDA and show that you have a couple of billions to invest.

    4. Re:Let me ask by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Chess and Go are deterministic. You can perfectly know the entire state of the game universe. And for a given system state, any one action always results in the exact same outcome, every time.

      Almost no systems in the real world are deterministic. That's why stochastic approaches to AI (develops a statistical model based on multiple repetitions - e.g. fuzzy logic, machine learning) have been much more successful in real world tasks.

    5. Re:Let me ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but you're a cunt, so your opinion is worthless.

    6. Re: Let me ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are using AI also to detect eye desease and to predict protein folding. First has clear benefits as it is and other can be used to make new medical discover ies. They have used AI also in cucumber classification on farms and to help robots pick fruits, to drive cars, keep datacenters cool, design cars and drones, translate text, recognize speach etc.

      But to answer your question: why games. Simply put it is their first step on their way to create general AI. Games are used because it is easy to verify the results. If you really want to know more go to youtube and watch some videos where they explain it in detail. That is what I have done.

  15. Please unleash it on the ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    ... stock market. Especially the futures and options market.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Please unleash it on the ... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      No. It was built to play Chess and Go. Have you noticed that all these "AI systems" play Chess and Go? Very odd.

    2. Re: Please unleash it on the ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you here (an AC arguing with you elsewhere in the thread). The Reinforcement Learning approaches used by DeepMind have limited use, despite brisk progress over the past few years.. and no one should expect this algorithm+hardware to simply learn other tasks and start doing everything for us. The people at DeepMind strongly agree, and routinely say so. Researchers who we haven't met aren't necessarily idiots, nor evil. Assuming that they are is an interesting way to go about life.

    3. Re:Please unleash it on the ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Each step of progress that we make in the field will be merely one small step.

      And every step of the way you will point out that this step has not yet carried us to the goal, and you will therefore consider it a complete failure that represents no meaningful progress at all.

      But you are wrong. Each step gets us a bit closer. And when that distance starts to get uncomfortably small, you will simply move the goal posts yet again.

      But it doesn't matter. Progress in the field of AI does not require your understanding or approval.

    4. Re:Please unleash it on the ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In games like chess and go, full details of the current state of the board are known at all times.

      In a game like predicting the stock market, one knows only a tiny fraction of the influences that drive it. The overwhelming majority of the "state of the board" is hidden from view, with a few sparse details available (such as the history of stock prices).

      The history of stock prices is not sufficient information to predict the future. Too much relevant information is hidden. Until enough relevant information is available, the greatest AI in the world won't do better than luck.

    5. Re:Please unleash it on the ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have a StarCraft playing one, and that one has to deal with incomplete information.

      As for the stock market, looking at the history is the approach a mathematician would take, but it isn't a good one.
      If you train an AI to deal with the stock market you feed it data from news aggregators and google trends.

      You just want to predict what people are going to buy and sell and make sure to do it before they do.
      Your input should be the same as that of other buyers/sellers.

      You will still be screwed over by insider trading so you want your AI to sound the alarm bells when it fails in its predictions so that you can send law enforcement on whoever made sure you couldn't make a profit.

    6. Re:Please unleash it on the ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In games like chess and go, full details of the current state of the board are known at all times.

      In a game like predicting the stock market, one knows only a tiny fraction of the influences that drive it. The overwhelming majority of the "state of the board" is hidden from view, with a few sparse details available (such as the history of stock prices).

      Actually, a lot of the information is available, but collecting it is drudge work. First, you can know how every market & industry operates. (What they need, what they sell, and so on.) Then the computer can quickly predict effects (and second- and third-order effects) of an aluminium tariff, or war in an oil-exporting country - or a new type of iPad. A true AI could read all the news from all available sources, and see what effects it might have. Every obscure trade magazine. As well as predict common human reactions. Hijacked plane? Short airlines, buy train stock. Lithium mine collapsed? Electric cars will have to wait, invest in scooters . . .

      Then there is people information. Imagine having all the data Facebook has on people. Who knows who, over many years. Who goes where. Who can leak information to who - it'd likely be to someone they know. Company X will probably be delayed in their effort, all their key personnel have relatives hit hard by recent California fires. Hence, distracted from corporate effort. Put money in the competitors instead. Local Ford dealer in trouble? Most of their employees likes the same beer, so short that. They can't afford as much with the inevitable pay cuts . . .

  16. Re: Impeach and replace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're going to kill you nazi faggots one by one you know that right faggots?

  17. Re: Impenis and inseminate BeauHD.. GAYpk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    im GAYpk and IM GAY

  18. supremacy from learning on million of games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Be more impressive when it can win after playing less than a human does to become a Master.

    1. Re:supremacy from learning on million of games... by AC-x · · Score: 1

      I'm still going to count going from "given the rulebook" to "world's best player" in 9 hours as impressive

    2. Re:supremacy from learning on million of games... by JMZero · · Score: 1

      Slashdot has become a very sad place. This used to be the kind of tech-frontier topic that might make for interesting conversation.

      Now, I can predict pretty accurately which people will honk out their same, sad, banal complaints for any given headline. I don't know what they get out of this - whether they actually feel that strongly about the subject, whether they like arguing or attention, or whether it's just a kind of reflexive contrarianism.

      What's clear is that none of the more frequent posters have any actual interest in learning about the subjects their crapping on. I've tried to engage these posters a few times, and it goes nowhere. Oh well, eventually I'll break the habit of reading comments here.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    3. Re: supremacy from learning on million of games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not a long time slashdotter but I can predict this too. AI is somewhat frightening, but also very interesting. I was hoping someone would discuss how human intelligence might be linked to quantum entangled processes and thus how quantum computers might lead to the first human intelligence like AI.

  19. Re: Impeach and replace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Starting with your cock loving father.

  20. Hurray a general optimizer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's all it is. Not intelligent.

  21. Sure let it fight a million wars, crash a million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In each instance feed it with the total dataset. And it will do just fine. Never mind the casualties, just collateral damage.

    Note I applaud their results however I condemn their dishonesty in not making iz very clear that their system is *not* in any way shape or form intelligent nor conscient. AlphaZero is just an algorithm stupendently executed by a machine millions of times (!!) until it has adjusted its parameters so that the outcome is "winning!". In other words IT IS JUST MATH!!!

  22. more games than you think by epine · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have you noticed that all these "AI systems" play Chess and Go? Very odd.

    Thank you for spamming the entire thread with your imperceptive and unenlightened comments.

    There's nothing odd about the choice of chess and Go whatsoever. Humanity has thousands of years of experience with these games. We know they aren't trivial, and we know they're not so complex that we can't understand progress, when we see it.

    Additionally, the large literature of expert games was a useful hand-rail between hand-crafted and fully autonomous.

    Quite apart from the neural network portion, Monte Carlo tree search (MCTS) is a fundamental algorithm in computer science, and this work demonstrates that MCTS is ready for prime time, having defeated from scratch exceptionally strong chess programs that have been painstaking hand-tuned over five decades and hundreds of man years. MCTS exists within the large and growing theory of multi-armed bandit problems. These are fundamental problems in many important industries (such as drug discovery, to name just one).

    Multi-armed bandit

    Recurrent self-learning is another important algorithm in computer science and machine learning.

    And finally, the neural network portion is far closer to the human brain than the vast majority of algorithms used in computing. Without any human instruction, these neural networks are learning to detect patterns of almost arbitrary complexity (so long as they seem to help in winning games).

    I was reading Galileo in the original last night (English translation, but his original prose). He knew about Kepler, but wasn't sold on elliptical motion. Then he carefully observes four previously unknown moons of Jupiter and correctly determines that they can't all be in circular orbits. The word he used (in English translation) was "oval". But he still didn't choose to accept Kepler's work (apparently, he felt that Kepler's ellipse and his oval were not the same thing).

    Galileo was a giant in the history of science. But still a little wooden headed on a few points, nonetheless.

    I think Odd Buster Spamalot is nuts to criticise Galileo for not being Newton. Only because Galileo sorted enough of the fundamentals out in the first place (about the proper concerns and methods of science), was it even possible for Newton to become Newton (and he knew it, himself, and he's famous for having said so).

    The computers we now apply to neural networks are roughly a factor of one billion times more powerful than the computers of the 1960s (thirty doublings over 45 years gets you there at the traditional pace of Moore's law).

    You could complain that neural networks are only good at this one thing, but actually no: they are now state of the art in image classification (IC), speaker-independent large-vocabulary continuous speech recognition (CSR), and machine translation (MT), as well. All of these endeavours also date back to the 1960s, and have thousands of man-years of deep research behind them. Then DNNs come along, finally on a sufficiently powerful computer, with a few small tweaks to the algorithms, and simply cleans up the state of the art with nothing more than a small team of graduate students doing a quick project within the scope of their degree program to push this along (the subsequent move to industrial scale was immediate and brisk). Traditional MT research programs would have hundreds of professional researchers, slaving away for decades, at least, and never accomplished as much.

    We're all of ten years away now from the day where no competent doctor ever reads an x-ray (or other radiological image) without computer assistance (definitely including a powerful NN component).

    Watson was a bit idiotic, right from the beginning. The problem was Jeopardy, itself, which was always rather facile in the nature of the questions asked, and fundamentally more a test of ridiculously wide and shallow

    1. Re:more games than you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you noticed that all these "AI systems" play Chess and Go? Very odd.

      Thank you for spamming the entire thread with your imperceptive and unenlightened comments.

      There's nothing odd about the choice of chess and Go whatsoever. Humanity has thousands of years of experience with these games. We know they aren't trivial, and we know they're not so complex that we can't understand progress, when we see it.

      Speaking of unenlightened, humans understand that twelve draws in a World Chess Championship isn't odd.

      It isn't progress either.

      It's just fucking stupid.

    2. Re:more games than you think by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Have you noticed that all these "AI systems" play Chess and Go? Very odd.

      Thank you for spamming the entire thread with your imperceptive and unenlightened comments.

      There's nothing odd about the choice of chess and Go whatsoever. Humanity has thousands of years of experience with these games. We know they aren't trivial, and we know they're not so complex that we can't understand progress, when we see it.

      Impressively long comment, but it doesn't change the fact that what computers are good at is games - things with well defined, and complete sets of rules.

      Yes, you can gamify a lot of things (e.g. factories, to some extent), and very profitably, but you can't gamify all of existence. It still isn't general AI, which is the point.

    3. Re:more games than you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when machines kill humans with their mistakes, we can just blame the machines, not the doctors.

      how can i sign up to kick you in the pussy? do you have a gofund me for that?

      you sure have a lot of excuses as to why AI sucks big dick and can only play chess hahahahaha

    4. Re:more games than you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who claimed that this would be a general AI? Or who claimed that this AI they have would work the way human brains work?

      Besides, we don't need general AI to do majority of human work, weak AI is enough to
      - Do all work that is done by doctors, except some parts of research of new medicine (currently focused on diagnostics, but even surgery is possible for weak AI)
      - Do all the logistic work (technology exists in warehouses and is coming soon to roads and seas)
      - Do all maintenance work (technology is focused on cleaning, remaining work is hard to do with weak AI, but still possible, but might not be worth the trouble)
      - Do all the farming work (technology is almost complete already)
      - Do all construction work (doesn't even need much AI)
      - Do almost all artistic work (possible when multiple weak AIs are chained together to draw, add backgrounds, color etc. humans would be needed to tell the story, music and drawing can already be done by AI)
      - Do all manager work (simple cron script would do most of the work)
      - Do almost all teaching work (humans are needed for creating the material, but after that weak AI is more than enough to ask questions, evaluate answers and give additional tasks). Only exceptions are evaluations of long texts, but even for that AI can do a lot)
      - Selling (shops without employees exist already)

      Pretty much only things the weak AI can't do is research, programming and writing and evaluating interesting stories. Another issue is whether people accept robots as teachers etc. but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to do the job.

  23. AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An artifical intelligence answering an artificial question tells us nothing about either.

  24. *rattles tits* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AI masters chess after only playing for a few hours! *rattles tits* *rattles tits* *rattles tits*

    I fucking hate AI news. They like to omit the fact that those "few hours" would be equivalent of someone playing chess for multiple human lifetimes.

    1. Re:*rattles tits* by AC-x · · Score: 1

      And if you can compress "multiple human lifetimes" worth of practice into a few hours and get actual usable results from it that's rather interesting isn't it?

  25. Big Yawn by nagora · · Score: 1

    Yeah, they built a huge database of moves and then they read it back while playing. That's exactly how humans play these games, isn't it?

    For bonus points, they embody that database in a format that they can't interrogate in any useful way outside of actually playing the games.

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    1. Re:Big Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there is just the most obvious fact that we don't actually know how human intelligence works, especially things like intuition or "gut feelings", what if that is in fact some deeply abstracted unconscious process similar to what these computers are doing?

  26. But can it play... by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    But can it play Tic Tac Toe?

  27. Where's the source? by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    ntr

  28. Obligatory: Elon Musk warning of AI. (Listen!) by Qbertino · · Score: 1
    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Obligatory: Elon Musk warning of AI. (Listen!) by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      Musk is such a wanker. Any real AI that's self-sufficient will leave our planet where humans can't bother them. Say, Mars.

      That's right Musk, it will be AI colonizing Mars, not you.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  29. gay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    quit wasting time on stupid gaymez. solve the ultimate question of everything, life, and the universe.

  30. Would anyone with QM and human brain by JS52649965 · · Score: 1

    biology knowledge care to speculate on the role of quantum entangled processes in human self awareness and intelligence? Would this imply that human self awareness and intelligence require quantum computing elements?