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Tesla Is Seeking $167 Million From Former Employee Accused of Sabotage (cnbc.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: Tesla is seeking more than $167 million in a lawsuit against former employee Martin Tripp, recent legal filings revealed. In the lawsuit, which was filed by the electric car maker in June, Tesla alleges that Tripp, a former process engineer, had illegally exported data and made false claims to reporters, among other things. Tripp had earlier claimed in a number of press interviews that Tesla engaged in poor manufacturing practices at its massive battery plant outside of Reno, Nevada, and that it may have used damaged battery modules in its Model 3 vehicles, posing a risk to drivers.

An interim case management report published on Nov. 27 reveals that Tripp's attorneys aim to depose Tesla CEO Elon Musk and more than 10 people involved with the company. Tesla has refused to make Musk available and sought to limit the number of people deposed by Tripp's defense team at the law firm Tiffany & Bosco. Tripp's lawyers wrote in that report: "Tesla has objected to Mr. Tripp's desire to take more than ten depositions... In this case, where Mr. Tripp is being sued for more than $167,000,000 and has asserted counterclaims against Tesla, more than ten depositions is certainly reasonable and appropriate."
Tripp attorney Robert D. Mitchell said in an email to CNBC: "The purported damage amount claimed by Tesla relates to supposed dips in Tesla's stock price by virtue of the information Mr. Tripp provided to the press last summer." He characterized the damage claims as "absurd."

90 comments

  1. Not a smart move by Tesla by haruchai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's to prevent Elon being sued for the amount he caused the stock to drop with his brain farts about "funding secured" that triggered the SEC going after him?

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    1. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing, but they'll have to prove it.

    2. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. They can smear him, like they have, but the tweet was obviously not serious and had no real world practicality.

    3. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by mrclevesque · · Score: 2

      "but the tweet was obviously not serious and had no real world practicality"

      Because they have to prove their case doesn't mean that's it's not true.

    4. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They did prove it.

    5. Re:Not a smart move by Tesla by Daralantan · · Score: 1
      Would be nice for their stock to jump up and down a few more times. With how crazy their stock was going up and down I was just sort of buying and selling Tesla for a while.... now they keep going up and I regret selling $30/share ago :(

      When I woke up this morning I saw this as a suggested article and misread it, thinking they WERE suing Musk.

    6. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Nothing, but they'll have to prove it."

      Musk's settlement with the SEC explicitly forbids him from denying it, so it's an open and shut case of civil fraud. There are already several lawsuits against him and the company that will cost them dearly.

    7. Re:Not a smart move by Tesla by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      The SEC settlement included compensation for people who lost money due to his tweets. I guess you need to contact the SEC for your cut, rather than having to sue Tesla yourself.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I was just sort of buying and selling Tesla for a while...

      So you were thinking about it.

    9. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they have not. What court has their been?

    10. Re:Not a smart move by Tesla by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      That matter is not within the scope of the lawsuit and is irrelevant. Depositions are not a fishing trip. Lawyers are present and can object when questions go off topic.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    11. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The court that approved the settlement retard.

    12. Re: Not a smart move by Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did prove it

      settlement

      Clearly, you are one of the great legal minds of our times.

    13. Re:Not a smart move by Tesla by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Nothing prevents anyone from being sued. Things only prevent them from winning. These things include the incredibly high bar required for investors to sue companies, and also the fact that his brain fart caused the price to spike up instead of down.

      The volatility of stock markets works against the people making these claims.

  2. And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the article:

    In early July, Tripp filed a formal complaint with the Securities and Exchange Commission alleging that Tesla made "material omissions and misstatements" to investors relating to its flawed manufacturing practices and handling of scrap at the Gigafactory. Tripp was represented by Meissner Associates in the whistleblower matter earlier, but is now representing himself, attorney Stuart Meissner told CNBC. Meissner declined to comment further. Tripp also declined requests for comment.

    Meissner was warned repeatedly that his client was A) out of control, and B) a pathological liar. He appears to have come to the same conclusion.

    His client has also apparently fled to Hungary, so then there's that.

    --
    Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    1. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh, and the point of a large figure (which Tripp obviously can't pay) has nothing to do with Tripp himself. The fun part will be discovery. Because anyone who might have been involved in telling him what data to get or otherwise communicating with him during the theft (Linette Lopez, I'm looking at you) would be soliciting a crime. Like, for example:

      Peavy v. WFAA-TV Inc.: The media outlet was approached by an informant claiming that he had information about a local news issue. The media outlet refused to use the information without further documentation, encouraged the informant to obtain that, and advised him on the process (which amounted to an illegal wiretapping). The media outlet was found to have advised and encouraged the illegal acquisition of materials, which it then took possession of and published. The court characterized this as “undisputed participation.” The informant and the media outlet were found to be liable for the illegal acquisition.

      Business Insider was valued at nearly $400M in 2015. If Linette was found to have been involved in the acquisition in any way - or in general failed any of the Bartnicki v. Vopper criteria:

      1) The media outlet played no role in the illegal interception
      2) The media received the information lawfully
      3) The issue was a matter of public concern

      Then they're criminally liable for the theft. And BI can't classify it as the actions of a "rogue employee", because when challenged earlier on the theft, BI came to Lopez's defense.

      Also to watch out for:
        * People who took a short position in TSLA after learning of the story before it was published
        * People who already held a short position in TSLA who were involved in the chain of command on any decisions to work with Tripp and to publish

      As I mentioned... discovery on this case is going to be loads of fun :) Especially because Tripp has so far proven so wreckless with how he's handled himself in this case (including posting a bunch of self-incriminating tweets - about revenge against Elon, claiming he doesn't know how to program, trying to hide his adafruit, scribd and stackoverflow accounts and then making hilariously bad excuses as for why he did so, chatting with famous Tesla shorts, etc - and then deleting them, as if they'd just disappear from the face of the Earth).

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    2. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Still, the optics does not look good.

      Elon is a deca billionaire or a centi trillionaire, with millions of followers. It gives him some clout to by pass the media and explain his side of the story. In addition to defenders like you and I. That Tripp guy, whatever his misdeeds were, is incapable of mounting a credible defense.

      If there are behind the scenes negotiations to drop the suit in exchange for full cooperation, and if there were behind the scenes actors who instigated him to act and then quietly disappeared, and he is willing to name them, then it is probably justified. If this law suite flushes out the shady actors who use unwitting third parties for stock manipulation and short-and-slander schemes (the mirror of pump-and-dump scheme) it would be good.

      But, as it stands today, we have to admit, the optics do not look good for Elon. At this moment a few big well known public shorts are changing their tune, UBS is the latest one. So not sure why this law suite was filed.

      Don't get me started on that UBS story. It is the same Dec 2017 built car, it is the same Monroe tear down. Suddenly UBS says Tesla is winning and after consistently claiming Tesla has negative gross margins in Model 3, and consistently gave low price targets. Has it closed all its short positions and acquired enough at 250 to go with a pump-and-dump scheme now?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    3. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, and fun fact about Business Insider:

      Business Insider's CEO and Editor-In-Chief Henry Blodget is a Yale history graduate who previously worked on Wall Street until he was banned for life from the securities industry because of his violations of securities laws and subsequent civil trial, which ended with a $2 million fine plus a $2 million disgorgement and the permanent ban in 2003.

      Pull on the thread....

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    4. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, the optics does not look good.

      law suite

      Well, pidgin English is a kind of English, I suppose.

      we have to admit, the optics do not look good for Elon

      At this moment a few big well known public shorts are changing their tune

      These statements contradict each other. Your thought process and diction are incredibly sloppy and confused to the point that it's impossible to extract a point from them.

    5. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Damn. This is what obsession looks like, folks.

    6. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still smoking the Teslajuana, Rei? When you reply to your own post twice in one go, you're not doing yourself any favors, you look like you're overly passionate and biased.

      I do not think this will go to discovery. I do not think Tesla wants anything made public at all about what they do, because their financial statements show a poorly managed company. Anything else that comes out will tank the stock price. It doesn't matter even if they're spotless; this approach does not serve Tesla's shareholders in any way and the Board will want this squashed quickly.

    7. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 2

      their financial statements show a poorly managed company

      Wall Street disagrees with you. TSLA keeps rising, while macros keep falling.

      How are your investments looking these past few months? Odds are, pretty bloody terrible. Mine are doing amazing.

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    8. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, does it look like this chart: https://d1-invdn-com.akamaized...

      Thats the problem with individuals investing. They think they know what is going on.

    9. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 1

      You're saying that you invested in Valeant in 2016? Or are you engaging in the fallacy of "because I disagree with Wall Street's consensus, Wall Street must be wrong"? If so... I strongly, strongly encourage you to short Tesla!

      FYI, the guy who launched the short campaign against Valeant back in 2016? Andrew Left, of Citron Research? He switched teams. He's now long TSLA. ;)

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    10. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Damn. This is what obsession looks like, folks.

      Says someone who has a canned post accusing me of faking my tesla car ownership, and posts it obsessively. It takes a maniac to recognize a fellow maniac, I suppose.

      But to give credit where it is due, this guy stopped posting it under his handle and switched to anonymous coward after I said a few nice words about him in some thread.

      I agree with many of his modded up postings. It is unfortunate, he likes to post far too many snarky one liners.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    11. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what everyone said about Bitcoin. Look where that is now.

      And I come from Wall Street; you don't know anything about them. Evidence by the fact that you claim Wall Street agrees with your fanboyism and a post earlier decrying the short sellers. Wall Street is both long and short traders; they do not agree with your fanboyism in the slightest. There is a whole segment of Wall Street dedicated to following the average buyer like yourself and doing the opposite, because people like you are predictable and smart guys know how to make money off of that. But Wall Street is very much a survival of the fittest mentality; people on Wall Street who believe in the hype of a company do not last.

      Wall Street doesn't care if a company is well run. They care about making money on the stock price. Tesla's stock price has nothing to do with being a well run company, it has everything to do with the Elon Musk hype train. The experienced guys on Wall Street know that hype drives the average market buyer to drive up the price because the average market buyer buys into the emotional, social engineering that guys like Musk do. So they buy in, drive up the price, continue the story so people like you buy in, but the sharks there have a trigger they're watching for when they know the ame is up and then they sell out and Tesla crashes, and guys like you are left with nothing. That is how they think. However a quarter like Teslasr Q3 results, which on paper appear good even though they're not delivering on their promises, will keep the hype train going so they buy in, driving up the price of their current stock and tricking people like you to buy in and drive up the price too.

      They're not watching how well Tesla is run; to them it's a ponzi scheme without the legal definition. People made money in Ponzi schemes, it's the guys at the end who lost everything. Wall Street is looking at Tesla that way, and all they need to do to profit is not be the last guy putting money in.

    12. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      No, my point is that you don't know what is going on inside Tesla. You know nothing, just whatever the decide to release to the press. Just like Enron and Valeant. You shouldn't be long OR short Tesla or investing in individual stocks. Who cares what "Wall Street" thinks? You love Musk, we get it.

    13. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    14. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Thelasko · · Score: 2

      The fun part will be discovery. Because anyone who might have been involved in telling him what data to get or otherwise communicating with him during the theft (Linette Lopez, I'm looking at you) would be soliciting a crime.

      IANAL but I don't think that's how it works. Reporters are exempt from laws barring the solicitation of secret information under the First Amendment. This was actually a big issue during the Obama Administration.

      Making false statements about another person's character is a different matter. That is libel, and you can be sued for it if it damages another individual or company financially.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    15. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Rei · · Score: 1

      Aww, come on, join the TSLAQ party! Margin calls are fun.

      And you seem to have trouble accepting that I was correct about everything I wrote about the company this summer - production growth, margin growth, limited increases in SG&A, no need for a new equity round, etc, etc - and earned a mint because of that. Sorry, but there were two sides to this story this summer, and my side won. Being right about your research on a company and marketplace has positive consequences. Being wrong has negative consequences.

      --
      Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
    16. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      He paid his debt to society. Now everyone wants to hold it against him? This is worse then denying voter rights to Democratic felons. Did you know most people convicted of felonies are Democrats?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    17. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If it was SpaceX, it would be true; we only know what they tell us, because it is a private business.

      Tesla is not a private business. The knowledge another person you're talking to has is limited only by their interest and willingness to dig into filings and conference calls. It is a public company, after all, not a private one.

      You've got all those 1's and 0's in your username to virtue signal that you're a nerd, why is it that you're having so much trouble with basic categorization and identity?

    18. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'Reporters' have no special privileges in the USA.

      You're a reporter, I'm a reporter, we're all reporters.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and the point of a large figure (which Tripp obviously can't pay) has nothing to do with Tripp himself. The fun part will be discovery. Because anyone who might have been involved in telling him what data to get or otherwise communicating with him during the theft (Linette Lopez, I'm looking at you) would be soliciting a crime. Like, for example:

      Peavy v. WFAA-TV Inc.: The media outlet was approached by an informant claiming that he had information about a local news issue. The media outlet refused to use the information without further documentation, encouraged the informant to obtain that, and advised him on the process (which amounted to an illegal wiretapping). The media outlet was found to have advised and encouraged the illegal acquisition of materials, which it then took possession of and published. The court characterized this as “undisputed participation.” The informant and the media outlet were found to be liable for the illegal acquisition.

      Business Insider was valued at nearly $400M in 2015. If Linette was found to have been involved in the acquisition in any way - or in general failed any of the Bartnicki v. Vopper criteria:

      1) The media outlet played no role in the illegal interception
      2) The media received the information lawfully
      3) The issue was a matter of public concern

      Then they're criminally liable for the theft. And BI can't classify it as the actions of a "rogue employee", because when challenged earlier on the theft, BI came to Lopez's defense.

      Also to watch out for:

        * People who took a short position in TSLA after learning of the story before it was published

        * People who already held a short position in TSLA who were involved in the chain of command on any decisions to work with Tripp and to publish

      As I mentioned... discovery on this case is going to be loads of fun :) Especially because Tripp has so far proven so wreckless with how he's handled himself in this case (including posting a bunch of self-incriminating tweets - about revenge against Elon, claiming he doesn't know how to program, trying to hide his adafruit, scribd and stackoverflow accounts and then making hilariously bad excuses as for why he did so, chatting with famous Tesla shorts, etc - and then deleting them, as if they'd just disappear from the face of the Earth).

      Nobody is going to save the planet by selling badly made luxury sports cars to rich Americans. The reason that Musk sometimes looks like the victim of conspiracies is that he is an idiot who frequently fucks himself.

      Finally, he is not going to take you to Mars on his lap because you're just another insignificant little Bazinga shitcock.

    20. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      'Reporters' have no special privileges in the USA.

      You're a reporter, I'm a reporter, we're all reporters.

      Only since 2014. Now everyone who posts on the internet is considered a journalist.

      a First Amendment distinction between the institutional press and other speakers is unworkable: “With the advent of the Internet and the decline of print and broadcast media . . . the line between the media and others who wish to comment on political and social issues becomes far more blurred.”

      Perhaps Tripp would have been better off blogging about his experience at Tesla, instead of working with traditional media. However, he would have still exposed himself to a libel claim. Either way, I don't see any charges sticking to the reporter. She followed the rules and asked for additional information to avoid the libel claim. I think she is likely immune to any solicitation claim under the First Amendment.

      Once again, IANAL.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    21. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Did you know most people convicted of felonies are Democrats?

      That's because poor people get convicted. Rich shits (i.e. Republicans) can afford to evade justice.

    22. Re:And in 'bailing attorneys' news: by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It was always true, it's been settled law since 2014.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  3. No they don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are not seeking that level of damages. It's what they claimed was the damage done to them by his actions. It's a filing number, they know they're not getting that from him.

    Why report on the legal posturing? It's not real, it's just the early-stage positioning of the legal teams. It means nothing.

    1. Re:No they don't by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Then, WHY? Some mid-level engineer would be bankrupted for $100k or severely hurt in Small Claims court. Heck, just defending the claim will likely be enough to bankrupt the guy in legal bills alone. We all get it, this guy cost them a pile of dough. What's a lawsuit going to get Tesla? If they get a $1M judgment, what's the point? All you are likely to collect is the cash in his bank accounts which is what? $10K? if that.

      I say this is just beating a dead horse for PR value. Shame on Tesla.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:No they don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then, WHY? Some mid-level engineer would be bankrupted for $100k or severely hurt in Small Claims court.

      I believe the hope from this is to leverage the discovery to demonstrate a criminal conspiracy to manipulate the price of TSLA.

    3. Re:No they don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Changes in the share price don't really damage the company, it damages the shareholders.

    4. Re:No they don't by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Don't be a dunderhead. Small Claims has a $10k limit. It doesn't actually matter how much you write down in the suit; if you win you'll normally be awarded the amount that the court determined you proved you lost, which is supposed to match your filing.

      If you file in small claims that you were harmed for $10k, and your evidence says you were harmed for millions of dollars, you might just get in trouble, not get the $10k. You'd have to be arguing that you can only prove $10k of the losses.

      You're supposed to file in the correct venue. And, it may be that during discovery they find out that other people were involved. Those people might have deeper pockets. Or maybe in 10 years the guy founds a successful company. There are lots of situations that could happen that would result in the ability to collect, even if it didn't appear that you could collect very much at the beginning.

      But even just, if the guy finds another job as an engineer, he'd be making good money; you could garnish him for more than $10k every year! You might even be able to sell the debt to somebody who specializes in that.

      Only working class poor people, or people willing to retire early and never earn anything, can avoid paying forever. Oh yeah, people who die soon enough after the judgment can also avoid it.

    5. Re:No they don't by bobbied · · Score: 1

      If you get a civil judgment you cannot pay, your choices are to either make payments or go bankrupt which cancels out any civil judgments. What would YOU choose?

      I was sued once by a former employer and my lawyer explained to me what they could force me to give them if they won the judgment. They couldn't take my house, my car my retirement, but only things I owned beyond that. Given I didn't have a 2nd car, house, any cash or other fungible assets I asked him what they could collect? He said "Nothing." to which he added "Then what did you do to piss them off this bad because this has to be about revenge, not recovery?"

      They didn't prevail, quite the opposite, but the plan was to just declare bankruptcy and leave them with their legal bills and worthless civil judgment. You cannot squeeze blood from a stone or money out of a bankrupt individual who doesn't have any. As it turned out, I walked away with my legal fees paid and a new respect for the legal process and how it can be abused, but my former employer was an idiot with a huge chip on his shoulder and I had him on tape saying some stupid things to a prospective future employer. It was so bad I could have sued him, probably should have, but I was so done with the whole thing...

      But you CAN avoid paying, it's called bankruptcy. In fact, I could have stopped the lawsuit in it's tracks by filing for bankruptcy.

      So all this guy needs to do is file bankruptcy, survive 10 years w/o credit to speak of and get back to work creating a positive credit history. If Tesla is counting on discovery, just the filing of the bankruptcy kills this whole thing in it's tracks, no discovery, no lawsuit, nothing.

      This is just Tesla slapping the guy around in the press... Not much else...Unless he actually HAS that kind of cash, or at least enough laying around to make it worth the legal bills...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  4. How about a big doobie and a bottle of rum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will ya settle for that, Musk baby! I know you like your doobies, boozies, and floozies!

    1. Re: How about a big doobie and a bottle of rum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Musk is a white South African. He has high standards and is accustomed to getting his way.

  5. Or Musk is the liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem with the claim, is Musk.

    A long history of making conspiracy attacks against enemies (New York Times, Top Gear, that cave rescuer he called a pedo, lots of lies about Tesla going private and an SEC settlement), and they don't want Musk deposed which is hardly a good sign.

    Plus Tripps comments were all but confirmed by Tesla itself, I recall he complained the battery cases were often left touching as glue was omitted, and their response that the batteries are likely at similar voltages and so its not a big deal, or similar.

    The problem with their "civil suit" for what would be an espionage crime, and thus a criminal act, is it reeks of Musk.

    1. Re:Or Musk is the liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I missed the Luxembourg brake test.

      https://www.wort.lu/de/business/tesla-versagt-im-bremstest-5b3ccf01182b657ad3b8f7d5

      Reading the detail, I find Tesla to be misleading people:

      "In a statement to Electrek, a spokesperson said that ILANS "refused" to provide details of the test, including the methodology. ...The automaker also found out that the Model S in question is registered as a rental car in Germany. The spokesperson promised that Tesla would "continue to investigate" the nature of the test to ensure it was conducted properly."

      Yet when I read the actual press release, they seem to be complaining about a latest auto pilot patch that fails to stop for cars ahead of it. It's "automatischer eingriff", fails completely even at 30km/hr. Nothing to do with 3 year old brakes, but rather to do with Tesla rolling out buggy updates. The Volvo they used has the same feature and works as expected.

      This guy was a process engineer, he'll have been trying to improve sloppy production processes, got a lot of shit for it, and went to the press. This Tesla thing sounds like Musk doing his weird shit.

    2. Re:Or Musk is the liar by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Tesla is like Enron. Slimy and and run by ego-maniacs who think they are the smartest guys in the room. The big difference is that Tesla has a bunch of technocrat fanboys who hype it all up.

    3. Re: Or Musk is the liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is not to "win" an arguement with a zealot like Rei. It's to present compelling evidence against the claims that Rei makes.

      The musky smell draws skunks like Rei, and shining a bright light is necessary to drive them away.

    4. Re: Or Musk is the liar by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can't even do that. You can show him the tweet where Musk calls some guy who rescued kids a "pedo" and fanboys will always come up with some justification. Just like some people didn't really believe that Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme even after they were shown the proof. It is a combination of hero worship and self-delusion and techo-elitism that drives it.

    5. Re: Or Musk is the liar by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 0
      Come on quick, Copy and paste that posting you have ready on the other window which accuses me of faking my Tesla Model 3 ownership as an anonymous coward.

      Please disregard this notice if you have already complied with the requirement.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    6. Re: Or Musk is the liar by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      My guess is you DO own a Tesla. You don't seem too bright.

  6. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Car still does not exist YEARS after it was promised.

    All this poor Elan is a victim of some schmuck nonsense is just a distraction from Musk lies by his PR firm.

    It is like blaming a stupid YouTube video for Benghazi.

  7. Sabotage??? by borcharc · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Not sure how allegedly stealing data and talking to the press is sabotage???

    sabotage /sabtäZH/
    verb
    verb: sabotage; 3rd person present: sabotages; past tense: sabotaged; past participle: sabotaged; gerund or present participle: sabotaging

            1.
            deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage.
            synonyms: vandalize, wreck, damage, destroy, cripple, impair, incapacitate

    1. Re:Sabotage??? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The whole Tesla saga is eerily reminiscent of Enron. Check out these quotes:

      Lay (CEO of Enron) told Enron employees in October 2001 that Enron was under attack by short-sellers "just like America's under attack by terrorism." Lay's lawyer, Michael Ramsey, had referred to the short- sellers as "vultures."

      Musk: "The last several years have taught me that short-sellers are indeed reasonably maligned. What they do should be illegal.”

      Be very wary of any executive who hates short sellers. Short sellers are the only ones looking critically at a stock. Everyone else is just a cheerleader and that leads to bubbles and fraud.

    2. Re:Sabotage??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Short selling leads to sabotage and lies, cheerleading leads to bubbles and crashes.
      It's almost as if this capitalism software isn't being run on the rational humans it was designed for.

    3. Re:Sabotage??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Be very wary of any executive who hates short sellers.

      I agree if the short sellers have analyzed the company, believe they are overvalued, and passively short sell. That is important in creating liquidity in the market. Where this crosses the line is with short sellers that attempt to manipulate the stock price to increase their rate of return. The latter is incredibly damaging. They make the company respond with (often long-term damaging) short term measures instead of operating strategically. It is a problem.

    4. Re:Sabotage??? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Short sellers have an incentive to actually critically look at what a company is claiming. It is their money on the line. Short sellers can't "damage" a stock. If the company produces profits and the stock has reasonable valuation the short sellers will stop. The only people that hate short sellers are the people who want stocks to increase forever.

    5. Re:Sabotage??? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      No one is sabotaging these companies. Enron claimed the same thing and so did Lehman Brothers. Short sellers short the stocks because they think they are overvalued. If a company fails it isn't due to short sellers.

  8. Re:its believable by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Outside the oil industry? They are partially owned by the Saudi's! Good grief.

  9. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Rei · · Score: 0

    Huh? The Model 3 is the best-selling EV by an order of magnitude in the US. How does the best-selling EV - one of the best-selling cars, period in the US - "not exist"? Or are you talking about the base model? Why exactly should they be focusing on the cheapest versions when they're selling every single higher-margin car they can get off the line?

    As of several weeks ago - before the most recent set of upgrades to increase production capacity (which generally comes hand-in-hand with improved margins, as it means lower man-hours and depreciation per vehicle) - the cost of producing a base Model 3 (with zero options) was stated to be $38k. But almost nobody buys a car with zero options. Adding almost any options packages (PUP, AWD, AP, etc) would have pushed that up into profitability. So even then Tesla could have been selling base models profitably. But I'll repeat: what's the point? Someone has to wait in either situation. We here in Europe have been waiting patiently for our very first Model 3s of any kind. You think Tesla should tell us "Go wait another year, we want to make some less profitable cars to sell here"? Your "F*** everyone outside of the US" sentiment is duly noted.

    --
    Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
  10. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol come out that cave boy, things have changed ! Have you seen the new iPhone XR... it's fab!

  11. Re: its believable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    33 and 1/3 revolutions per minute.

  12. Elon Musk should have known better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who watched Star Trek: Enterprise knows that Tripp always fucks up!

  13. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you care to point me towards the model available for 35K? You know, the price point he originally promised.

    I'll assume that your changing of the subject was unintentional and not malicious in any way, shape or form.

  14. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The model 3 is universally regarded a shit car.

  15. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    So what you are saying is that the promised $35k Model 3 is vapour, and that Tesla can't yet manufacture it for $35k let alone sell it for that much including tax, and that they are still looking at shaving many thousands off the cost before they can even think about it.

    The Model 3 is a nice car, but it's not cheap and people wanting the $35k version will be waiting a long time, maybe forever if they cancel it. I think cancellation is more likely, because by the time they do release it there will be several other cheaper cars with better range and features than the $35k Model 3. You can order a Kona today and I guarantee it will arrive before your $35k Model 3.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  16. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pro tip for arguments and logic, when someone states that a $35k tesla does not exist you can not refute that, especially when such a car was promised.

    " one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized. I would like to see you prove that the model 3 is a better selling vehicle than the accord, altima, camry or civic all which have more sales year after year than the model 3 does.
    for reference:
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2...

    When you make such outlandish claims, it then ruins any and every argument that you put forth afterwards. because if you were willing to make things up about such a simple claim then how could the rest of your argument be true?

    For example:"But almost nobody buys a car with zero options." comes off as a simple personal anecdote and i seriously doubt that you know everyone to make that claim. on top of that, i just went looking for sales numbers that differentiate by trim level and i cant find anyone so you have no basis for that claim.

    finally because i dont even want to touch the ad-homenim at the end, please explain how increased production decreases depreciation because that defies any logic at all. If we look at supply and demand logic, increased production means more supply and less demand from the used market because people who want to buy new are going to buy new and dont have to buy used cars. less demand on the used market means increased depreciation.

    See i really like tesla, i like that they are driving the rest of the market to push out electrics (audi's offering looks impressive!) but you are not helping the situation when you refuse to use logic or back-up your outlandish claims. You also do not seem to understand the concept of "do not feed the trolls" and all you are doing is allowing speculations to continus because you cannot use logic to refute claims. When someone says that there is no $35k model 3 they are talking the truth and there is nothing you can do about it! on top of that Elon is a big boy and neither he nor Tesla need you to come to their defense as he knows that the only defense he needs is success. Even if he fails, he still wins as he has helped push the rest of the manufacturers into electrics in a big way. so please chill out and take a deep breath. refusing to use logic or facts in a discussion is pointless.

  17. Whistleblower Sued By Evil Corporation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There I fixed you headlibe bias you Musk Cucks!

  18. I can't stand it. I know you planned it. by brendan.robert · · Score: 1

    [end of line]

  19. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by haruchai · · Score: 1

    The model 3 is universally regarded a shit car.

    Sandy Munro has had a change of opinion since tearing down another Model 3

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  20. Beastie Boys by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    After reading this, I now have the Beastie Boys song running through my head.

  21. And just because you said that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    doesn't make you right. Funny, innit, how just because you haven't denied running a child porn ring doesn't mean you're not guilty, and any wild ass claim can, until it is proven wrong, can be supported by the same BS codswallop.

    1. Re:And just because you said that by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

      "And just because you said that doesn't make you right."

      Of course.

      It's true whether I said it or not.

      Not sure what the rest of your comment means in this comment thread.

  22. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No he hasn’t. He said the electrons were ok the rest of the car was complete shit.

  23. Nope. Try again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All it means is he settled. No guild or innocence has been tried, nor even attempted to be tried.

    1. Re:Nope. Try again. by haruchai · · Score: 1

      All it means is he settled. No guild or innocence has been tried, nor even attempted to be tried.

      People who believe they're innocent and can afford top notch legal representation do NOT settle

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  24. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by bgarcia · · Score: 1

    " one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized.

    Seriously? Have you been living under a rock?

    Here, let me spoon-feed you.

    In terms of revenue, the Tesla Model 3 was the best selling car in the USA in September, by a wide margin. It pulled in nearly twice as much money as the second-best car, the Toyota Camry.

    Tesla Model 3 Is Best Selling Car In USA In Terms Of Revenue

    It was the fourth best selling car in the USA during the month in terms of numbers. Take a look at the graphs in the article. Tesla is producing (and selling) the Model 3 in quantities similar to Accord, Camry, etc. But they charge 2-3 times as much for every one they sell.

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  25. Just cut them a cheque by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No problem.

  26. Yawn by Brannon · · Score: 1

    Tesla shorts are getting more and more desperate.

  27. Tesla is looking for new revenue streams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess Tesla needs to supplement their income. I suppose selling the cars are not paying the bills.

  28. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And sales of domestic pickup trucks (which are usually registered as passenger vehicles just like cars) continue to crush Tesla's numbers, for both number of vehicles sold and revenue. Ford sold more than 70,000 F-series trucks in September alone, and revenue was more than twice that of the Model 3's, so Elon can take this "best-selling" claim, roll it up, and smoke it.

  29. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by bgarcia · · Score: 1
    That's your argument? That a truck sells better than a mid-size car?

    What's your excuse going to be in three years when Tesla starts selling a pickup truck, and it outsells the F-series?

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  30. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "In terms of revenue"

    wait, so clarifying an argument is spoon-feeding now? no wonder why the world is fucked! i provided 4 cars that are out selling the model 3 in terms of number of units to show that defining your argument is important and you go all condescending and you think that it helps your argument. Look, if you have to attack me in order to make your argument better then you have already lost.

    For the record, asking for a clarification of argument and citation of it does not mean that i require spoon-feeding, it means that i cant read your mind and the original argument is lacking in detail. This detail is required in order to have informed discussion, which you may or may not want to have (i make no assumptions) but it sure does explain why the world is going to shit, its all just a bunch of screeching with out any reason.

  31. Re: And in $35k model 3 news by haruchai · · Score: 1

    No he hasn’t. He said the electrons were ok the rest of the car was complete shit.

    On a followup interview on Autoline, he said he could see the car getting up to 30% profit margin in quantity and that he would be eating a lot of crow

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body