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Qualcomm Asks China To Ban the iPhone XS and XR (theverge.com)

After securing a win in court earlier this week to ban Apple's older phones, Qualcomm is trying to get the newer iPhones banned too. "According to the Financial Times, Qualcomm has now asked Chinese courts to issue an injunction that bans Apple from selling the iPhone XS, XS Max, and XR within the country due to the same case of possible patent infringement," reports The Verge. From the report: The new filing will escalate the companies' legal conflict in China, where Apple has so far ignored a court-ordered sales ban. Apple claims the ban only applied to phones running iOS 11 and earlier. Since its phones have now been updated to iOS 12, Apple believes they can remain on sale, and so it has continued to sell them. According to the Financial Times, the Chinese court's order doesn't specifically mention any version of Apple's operating system. That doesn't necessarily mean Apple is wrong, but it does mean that there's more to be hashed out.

53 comments

  1. Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Qualcomm is a patent troll and needs to be stopped. Excessive patents should be taxed heavily. These patents drive up prices for consumers and reduce competition. It's time for the government to use eminent domain to confiscate abused intellectual property.

    1. Re: Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love moron comments like this from apple fanboys.

      Apple steals Qualcomm i intellectual property because they don't like the license contracts THAT THEY SIGNED. BTW the other manufacturers are still paying. Gives intellectual property of Qualcomm to to Intel, but Qualcomm is patent troll. BTW this isn't about how a phone looks (See Apple trolling Samsung) but the Internals of the phone that Qualcomm spends billions developing.

    2. Re: Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is probably the worst troll out there. Back in the past they basically copied konfabulator. The author didn't get any credit. Then they literally sue everyone over multitouch

    3. Re: Qualcomm = patent troll by itzdandy · · Score: 1

      well, it's not so clear cut. Qualcomm has gamed the patent system and made it very near impossible to develop an alternative radio that doesn't infringe which is legal, but douchey. Then, they have the power to push their patent portfolio as standards ensuring the next generation is locked up the same way. That's monopoly.

      It doesn't mean it's ok for Apple to ignore the patents (and the law), but it does suggest that the government modify the system so that this type of monopoly isn't allowed to form up.

    4. Re:Qualcomm = patent troll by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      It's a troll vs troll fight. Remember the Samsung lawsuit over rounded corners? I think it's high time Apple got to cough up some too.

    5. Re: Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it does suggest that the government modify the system so that this type of monopoly isn't allowed to form up.

      We have to get the money out of politics. Public financing. People in a position to make laws or policy must not be allowed to buy stock ever. If they have anything that even resembles a conflict of interest it must be gotten rid of before being on any ballot. Everything must be sold and put in a blind trust. We likely need multiple watchdog agencies to make sure the job gets done.

      Basically before cleaning up laws you first have to clean up some of the corruption. Also no lobbying ever, once your out of politics. Don't like it. Too damn bad. For that matter no lobbying before either.

    6. Re:Qualcomm = patent troll by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I dare say, that every single US company is going to have problems in China from now on, none will escape, and any Chinese business doing any favours to a US company will earn a bad social media score. Trade wars start at the top and then spread down and end consumers also trade war ban products. It doesn't even have to be overt it will affect the psychology and judgement of all those involved, negatively. Patent and copyright cases are sure to become really messy. US no longer stands for United States not it just means Un-Suitable (one guess that the 'A' now stands for and it ain't America).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re: Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Qualcomm has a history of abusing intellectual property. Apple's abuses of intellectual property do not justify Qualcomm's abuses. Taxing large amounts of intellectual property would curb Apple's abuses, perhaps quite a bit more than it would affect Qualcomm. It would discourage frivolous patents and encourage companies to prioritize what's actually worth patenting. Or did you just want to make a comment about "Apple fanboys" without bothering to understand the comment?

    8. Re:Qualcomm = patent troll by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      So, I keep hearing folks claim that this trade war is bad for us. Let me ask, should we instead continue to bend over and take it up the ass as China steals more IP, manipulates currency, and does more (http://www.govtech.com/security/204318661.html) cyber attacks on the U.S.? China is not our friend, and until they start acting more responsibly (South China Sea, Tibet, etc.) they should not be treated as such.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    9. Re:Qualcomm = patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      South China Sea??? You fill the hole area with military bases and they are the ones acting irresponsibly?
      China is bad on a lot of stuff, but it is very responsible for their people to start protecting themselves from America.

  2. What a joke by hoofie · · Score: 4, Funny

    Of course China is really big on enforcing Patent Infringement isn't it ?

    1. Re:What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bickering Qualcomm and Apple are a good thing for their companies.

    2. Re: What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are when they think the populace favors it. The problem is the EU, which has less concern for the populace patents are considered the property of the state even when ostensibly owned by people.

    3. Re:What a joke by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Its win, win for China.
      It grows their own Communist approved brands with every sale.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:What a joke by hackingbear · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Of course China is really big on enforcing Patent Infringement isn't it ?

      Why not? Very soon, Americans will be complaining about Chinese patent trolls.

      The United States used to violate other countries' intellectual properties left and right, after it developed its industry and economy, the U.S. developed into the patent trolling business.

    5. Re:What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have to start somewhere.

    6. Re:What a joke by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Nobody was talking about America until you decided to engage in whataboutism that neither addressed nor refuted the premise.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    7. Re: What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communism is the future. Prehistoric retards capitalist slaves wouldn't understand.

    8. Re:What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see what he said that wasn't relevant.

    9. Re:What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Of course China is really big on enforcing Patent Infringement isn't it ?"

      They are now that they're the ones with something to protect.
      But that was the same path the US followed, so this shouldn't be a surprise.

    10. Re: What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In communist soviet Russia, history books read you

    11. Re:What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not whataboutism to point successful examples of a practice. Trying to silence discussion by talking about whataboutism, OTOH....

  3. Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Qualcomm getting desperate now their SOCs getting smashed hand over fist by Apple custom jobs.

    1. Re:Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Uh huh. That's why if you search for "Fastest Smartphone" you get the Samsung Galaxy Note 9 followed by the Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus. Because Apple custom jobs are "smashing hand over first" other SOCs. Now, mind you, there are two variants of the Samsung Galaxy S9: one using Exnyos, and one using Snapdragon. Snapdragon - Qualcomm's SOC - is the fastest one.

      So Apple gets beaten twice there, because their fastest phone can't compete with either variant of the Galaxy S9.

    2. Re: Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Samsung S9 has the fastest radio. Apple still beats it in performance benchmarks.

  4. So, it's not really a patent issue... by rmdingler · · Score: 2

    Trade wars lead to protectionist trade policies, and before you know it, we're back to paying more for the same shit we could have done without in the first place.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:So, it's not really a patent issue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here hear! Spoken like a wealthy capitalist.

      Not hard to figure out on which side of the income gap you're living.

    2. Re:So, it's not really a patent issue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was going on long before Trump, you dipshit.

    3. Re:So, it's not really a patent issue... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "Trade wars lead to protectionist trade policies"

      So, you're content with the status quo?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  5. Baseband Alliance needed by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It would be good to see all the big phone players get together to produce a secure open radio platform that could be masked out by whatever fab wants to run the job for a given integration.

    I mean, this is commodity today - phone vendors haven't competed on reception quality in over a decade. They gain more by making the radio a commodity together than they do by playing Qualcomm's bitches.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Baseband Alliance needed by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The issue here is that Qualcomm says Apple gave some of it's secrets to Intel, to help Intel make better modems for the iPhone. Even if the patents covering 4G are available for everyone to use (which they are under RAND terms, basically everyone gets to licence them for a nominal fee or in exchange for licencing their own patents) that doesn't meant Apple can give away trade secrets that help the Qualcomm parts perform better.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  6. Simple solution to this by registrations_suck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Require "industry standards" to be:

    0). Approved by the FCC AND
    a). Based on royalty-free technology OR
    b). State a simple, VOLUME-BASED royalty structure.

    The more devices you sell, the more you pay - perhaps on a regressive scale. The price of the device should be irrelevant. Pay patent owners based on what THEY are selling not the device-makers.

    1. Re:Simple solution to this by flabman · · Score: 1

      This is the case already. Standards-essential patents must be licensed at FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms.

    2. Re:Simple solution to this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much what the standards are. They require all patents relating to the standard to be offered under "RAND" (Reasonable And Non Discriminatory) terms, meaning typically a simple per-device royalty.

      Apple has two problems with this. Firstly, often instead of a royalty the manufacturer has their own patents that they offer in exchange and no money changes hands. Apple doesn't have any patents to trade, all theirs are design stuff like rounded corners and UI elements, not the kind of thing that a modem manufacturer might be interested in.

      Secondly Apple gave Qualcomm's trade secrets to Intel, to help Intel improve their modems. Apple likes having multiple suppliers for every part as it gives them a better bargaining position and prevents production stoppages if one can't meet demand. Unfortunately not all parts are equal, so Apple software limits the modem speed to the lowest common denominator, in this case Intel. Apparently their engineers gave Intel some hints based on what Qualcomm told them and the ITC seems to agree.

      The second part is why China is banning iPhones.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re: Simple solution to this by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

      Too ambiguous.

    4. Re:Simple solution to this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more devices you sell, the more you pay - perhaps on a regressive scale. The price of the device should be irrelevant.

      Why irrelevant? I see it as a good thing as it serves as an incentive to vendors to have cheaper designs to appeal for a broader market. If Apple feels it gets burned by it because their devices are too expensive, well tough luck.

    5. Re:Simple solution to this by Shatrat · · Score: 1

      0 doesn't make sense because the FCC operates in the US and is headed by the biggest moron in the tech world.
      The problem with A is that is that companies that currently invest billions of dollars per year in R&D to develop the standards will stop. They'll wait until someone else does the work and then just implement it. If we took this approach we would still be waiting on LTE, not even dreaming about deploying 5G which has already begun in some areas.
      B is a bit more reasonable, but then device makers will be paying the same royalty on a $25 LTE feature phone sold in India compared to a $1100 flagship sold in Orange County. You basically make the royalty a regressive tax on tech by doing this.

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      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    6. Re:Simple solution to this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The price of the device should be irrelevant. Pay patent owners based on what THEY are selling not the device-makers.

      Normally, i would agree with that statement

      But as i more and more see how companies sell products (ahem apple) at not a 'fair' markup margin, but at the maximum price they can ask for --- and the markey will pay. It should make sense that patent overs SHOULD get this premium price action too, not just the 'end sale company'

      Its is INSANE how much money apple is sitting on. Largely Leeched from both patent owners who have to sell at rock bottom prices and have no real leverage --- and from consumers who pay premium prices for what i would consider an inferior product.

      Qualcomm is the one company which has had clear leverage for a superior product, and apple is crying like the brat it is.

  7. Great news!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck apple. Biggest patent trolls in tech.

  8. Qualcomm should ask China to ban Huawei by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Banning Apple is peanut.

    If you have any guts, Qualcomm, go petition the Chinese courts to issue a ban on Huawei products !

    1. Re: Qualcomm should ask China to ban Huawei by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      China has no interest in the US-Russia proxy war over Iran.

    2. Re:Qualcomm should ask China to ban Huawei by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Huawei is already paying it's share in Qualcomm's racketeering scheme. Apple is rebelling against it. I might've been on Apple's side this time if I didn't know about their litigious past. Hitting USA crown jewel also brings some satisfaction, after seeing how Americans are hostile towards Huawei and Chinese high-tech.

  9. As a Canadian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a Canadian, I can tell you that *There is no rule of law in China*. There is no independent court in China. Every court decision is a directive by the politbureau. Here is how I know. A few days ago, the US asked Canada to detain a Huawei C.F.O. for extradition. Canada did. China does not seem to realize that Canada has laws, and judges are involved, not politicians. Since that time, China has illegally detained two Canadians (the second just yesterday). Yet China keeps demanding politicians in Canada cause the release of the Huawei CFO. In Canada, politicians *CANNOT* tell judges what to do, they can only make laws. Judges are *ALWAYS* independent. But the stupid stupid stupid Chinese can't seem to get this. ...because politicians yelling at judges is *exactly* how its done in China. So when you say "Chinese company won a court ruling in China", what you really mean is "politicians want Huawei in China, not Apple", and that is all there is to know. It has nothing to do with patents, or technology. Some people might be confused, hope this clears it up.

    1. Re:As a Canadian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Canada independent judges decides to detain a Huawei C.F.O. for extradition completelly on their own will based on laws, their decision have nothing with political pressure from USA and Canada, LOL.

    2. Re:As a Canadian by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with political pressure. The US and Canada cooperate on many things, including keeping an eye out for people that the other nation wants arrested. It's not done willy-nilly, and the Canadian court isn't going to get "political pressure" from anyone in the U.S. So LOL away, but know that you're full of shit too.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    3. Re:As a Canadian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone who thinks Canadian judges action in this case is not politically influenced is completelly made of shit.

    4. Re:As a Canadian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rule of law is defined by laws. Who creates laws? Politicians. Congress, politbureau etc. In China it is just a bit more direct.

      Sanctions against Iran might be law (extraterritorial one), but are certainly politics. Canada legal system should thus have a filter for requests, not blanket-accepting anything coming from USA, like now.

    5. Re:As a Canadian by Baki · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but how is the unilateral US any better? They quit the nuclear agreement with Iran, against the opinion and will of all of its "allies" including Canada. Now Canada is helping the US in intimidating the world to get its way w.r.t. Iran, and Canada is an accomplice by collaborating the the extradition. I hope, as much as I dislike China and some of its practices, that Canada will pay be severe price for this, and the USA former allies will finally come to reason and quit helping the US against their own interests.

  10. Xi's Document 9 emphasizes the rule of law by aberglas · · Score: 1

    As a tool to do what the Party dictates.

    But you are right. It is probably inconceivable that a Canadian court could be independent of the Canadian government. Simply does not compute.

  11. Re: Omg you are dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You want -good- patents but not the -bad- kind that lead to monopoly?

    A patent, by definition, is a government granted monopoly for a period of time in exchange for publicly sharing the details of the invention.

    You are a complete fucking idiot.

  12. Go look at USA history first. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And discover that the USA did not protect ANY copyrighted works for years, then only US authors' works were protected. Charles Dickens sold like hot cakes in the USA and he got sweet fuck all. The USA only created copyrights when they had enough authors being "stolen from" in other countries to make enough paid complaint to do something about it. when they didn't make a net profit off the idea, they couldn't give a flying fuck.

    Then look at patents on movie recording, held by Edison in the east coast and enforced there, so the movie industry, wanting to avoid paying the patent tax, moved to the west coast, where it took so long to get enforcers out to collect the money due that the company could make the movie, sell the movie, collect the cash, then fold up, only to start again under another name.

    Ever wonder why Hollywood and why there are 20 companies involved in every movie production? Patent infringement and liquidation to avoid paying patent dues.

    And now they do the 20 companies because they're all under the same umbrella, so each get to claim their chunk of the massive profit tax free, so avoid paying taxes on what they earn. Do YOU get to deduct the cost of your home, bills, food, car, travel costs, etc? No. THEY do.

  13. Apple has an abuse of IP history. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you're using qualcomm doing it NOW to ignore Apple's longer history of it...

    Fuck you're an ignorant twat.