Slashdot Mirror


China Hacked Norway's Visma To Steal Client Secrets, Investigators Say (reuters.com)

A prolific espionage group, which the U.S. government believes is Chinese, compromised billion-dollar business service provider Visma in 2018, according to a report by Recorded Future, a threat intelligence firm. From a report: The attack was part of what Western countries said in December is a global hacking campaign by China's Ministry of State Security to steal intellectual property and corporate secrets, according to Recorded Future. China's Ministry of State Security has no publicly available contacts. The foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment, but Beijing has repeatedly denied any involvement in cyber-enabled spying. Visma took the decision to talk publicly about the breach to raise industry awareness about the hacking campaign, which is known as Cloudhopper and targets technology service and software providers in order reach their clients. Cyber security firms and Western governments have warned about Cloudhopper several times since 2017 but have not disclosed the identities of the companies affected.

49 comments

  1. China doesn't know how innovate by sinij · · Score: 4, Informative

    Intellectual property theft is existential necessity for China. Its culture of conformity and rigid hierarchy greatly impedes home-grown innovation. So they have to steal tech from the West or fall behind.

    1. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most tech invented in the west was also invented in the face of conformity and rigid hierarchy

      that isn't uniquely chinese

    2. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There isn't much conformity in the West on anything, and in the West hierarchy is one based mostly on competence. Unlike China, where hierarchy is mostly based on seniority and connections.

      The West can innovate because the best and brightest raise to the top. China can't innovate because the most connected and people who put in most time-in raise to the top.

    3. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for a Chinese firm and we prefer to develop all technology ourselves. We donâ(TM)t want to buy IP from others but we can and we will if we have to. We donâ(TM)t want to cut corners but we can and will if necessary. So far we have never had to deviate from our chosen path but we can and would if we had to. People say is it really that simple. Yes.

    4. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like you don't cut corners on your spelling and grammar?

    5. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at the trajectory that development took in Japan post WWII. China is following a similar trajectory. After developing industry and copying technology, improving it and developing original solutions is next on the agenda (and that thought scaring the shit out of the rest of the world).

    6. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intellectual property theft is existential necessity for China. Its culture of conformity and rigid hierarchy greatly impedes home-grown innovation. So they have to steal tech from the West or fall behind.

      You left out lack of respect for laws, especially the laws of those lowly non-Chinese.

      Oh, and racism. Again directed against those lowly non-Chinese.

    7. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article feels like a smear. Didn't anybody learn anything from the NSA Vault 7 leak? The US gov't has sophisticated hacking tools that can be used to make it look like any foreign entity that they choose is perpetrating the hacking. In this case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this hack was done by the USA and spoofed to make it look like the Chinese did it in an attempt to vilify them.

      We've seen a lot of attacks on Chinese in the media recently, and often with flimsy evidence to back up those claims. Take for example, Bloomberg's SuperMicro motherboard "big hack" for example. Apple and other technology giants denied the claims. Has anyone actually seen and verified the existence of such hacked motherboards?

      Making America Great Again by spreading FUD against the Chinese to block Huawei 5G technology in an effort to ensure USA backdoored 5G is deployed around the world instead?

    8. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not obvious to me that "after developing industry and copying technology" the next step is inevitable progression to original solutions.

      Do you have any evidence of anything being developed in-house in China that isn't copied? Even military technology is copied from the West, like laughable attempts to reverse-engineer stealth technology, that failed even after purchasing US wrecks from Pakistan for hundreds of millions.

    9. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by sinij · · Score: 1

      5G is Qualcomm technology, licensed by Huawei. It wasn't invented in China.

    10. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Fireworks.

      What China lacks currently is a competent management class. There is no shortage of highly intelligent individuals or hard working people, just the right type of person to push the envelope.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    11. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ***** whooosh *****

    12. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      There isn't much conformity in the West on anything

      Yes...

      and in the West hierarchy is one based mostly on competence.

      No. That's nonsense. It's based mostly on nepotism.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by hey! · · Score: 0

      I have managed cross-cultural teams, and the idea that there is some kind of cultural determinism in innovation is nonsense. Put people under enough pressure and they will innovate, if their leadership is effective. Give a team ineffective leadership, and it will fail, no matter what the culture. The only difference is the failure mode.

      An American team with weak leadership will devolve into a pack of passive aggressive prima donnas . A team of Indians (note qualification: India is a big place with many distinct cultures) might devolve into a pack of yes-men who do what they're told and no more. These are both failures of leadership, the only difference stems from one peculiarly American cultural quirk: it's not considered disrespectful to publicly challenge the boss.

      This doesn't make Americans better engineers; it makes them different to manage, and easier for an American to manage. Either way, you don't just rely on meetings to make great things happen; you have to cultivate a working relationship with each employee so you get the most out of him. You just use that relationship a little differently. Some people you have to cajole to get on board; other people you have to draw out. It's not necessarily always the ones you think either; people aren't cultural robots.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    14. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heads up, make sure your computer-systems are Y2K safe when you eventually catch up to this millenium

    15. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How's your Mandarin, asshat?

      The idea that China can't invent is laughable. They have, they can, they do.

      They steal IP because nobody is willing to stop them. Democrats are bought and paid for, and Republicans can grumble but only grumble in the face of China's ability to fuck her citizens merely to get at the US.

    16. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 0

      I'm going to call BS on this. This sounds like the kind of nonsense people spout from the back of a trailer while drinking Schlitz and shooting the cans from yesterday's drinking fest.

      This is precisely what we said back in the 80s about the Japanese. Have you been to Japan? If the closest thing you can get to it is porn sites, they practically invented the term creative.

      China is a HUGE country...it's full of creativity from top to bottom. Check out "Harbin International Ice and Snow Sculpture Festival" if you need a hint.

      China spent the past 40 years sending their best and brightest to universities in the western world and a lot of the talent is coming back. There is no doubt that China is coming up fast now. They are filling universities with western educated professors who are educating their youth by the hundreds of thousands to rise to the top.

      If only based on sheer headcount, the Chinese can throw a WHOLE LOT of spaghetti at the wall and a lot of it will stick.

      Although, if you think that we here in the west are safe because of some old fool redneck tale... enjoy your Schlitz.

    17. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      I've been thinking the same way... maybe a little less on the conspiracy side.

      The way I see it, 5G is more or less the last upgrade for a while. Whoever bags this one will make a lot of money on it. Huawei is practically giving their stuff away compare to what the western companies are charging. I work for a big telco... so big that Huawei rents about a thousand square meters of office space a few floors above where I sit to be closer to us. We'll are one of the world's largest customers for 5G and whoever we buy our 5G network from will make billions from us. If we buy Huawei, we'll save probably $2-3 billion over buying from their nearest competitor. (don't buy stocks on this information, I don't see the papers and I'm not in the meetings, this is all from public shareholder reports).

      The university where I'm doing my grad work runs a super computing program, I'm working on RDMA over classic Ethernet (instead of converged) as a research topic in HPC. We use Huawei ARM based servers for the nodes.

      If the FUD mongers manage to accomplish their goals, we'll be forced to dump Huawei in both places due to "national security". (again public news). We are fighting it tooth and nail because all of our systems are either relatively safe from hackers since we don't exactly expose important systems to the outside world... or we simply give China or India the passwords anyway since we pay them for operations. Why on earth would Huawei need to hack us when they have administrative access to the network to begin with?

    18. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot.

    19. Re: China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it isn't. 5G incorporates technology developed by many different companies.

    20. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of the hacking is pretty innovative!

    21. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      They are a small dick zero face culture.

    22. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Kjella · · Score: 1

      It is not obvious to me that "after developing industry and copying technology" the next step is inevitable progression to original solutions. Do you have any evidence of anything being developed in-house in China that isn't copied?

      It borders on an ethnic insult to argue that 1.4 billion people are incapable of coming up with something original. Even though they're short on political freedom they have lots of bright scientists and engineers. Take high speed rail for example, they did import technology from France, Germany, Japan and Canada 15 years ago but it's now all in-house and they have 60%+ of the high speed rail in the world and 2+ billion customers per year. They have the world's longest HSR line, the world's fastest HSR line and the only commercially operating maglev line in the world. In short, they're market leaders by a huge margin. As much as /. is in love with SpaceX the Chinese actually launched more rockets in 2018 than the US did. Of course their rockets are much like existing rockets but it's not like they bought a design from Russia and called it theirs. But hey, it's only rocket science...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    23. Re:China doesn't know how innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it must be Backwards Day.

  2. hysterical handwringing under performs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    seems like a distraction effort? or trying to co-opt the wildly popular comeback of genuine star gazing & hand waving?

  3. On contrary, China is pretty good at innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the Chinese companies I worked with are pretty good at what they do and I have worked with some damn smart Chinese. Don't underestimate China.

  4. Why are there no consequences? by oic0 · · Score: 1

    So we are just going to spread our cheeks and invite them on in?

    1. Re:Why are there no consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we are just going to spread our cheeks and invite them on in?

      Why?

      Look at the crap thrown at Trump for daring to stand against this kind of shit.

    2. Re:Why are there no consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Money buys access. Just look at Diane Feinstein (D-Bejing) and the Clintons. Couple that with corporate overlords that don't give a damn about Western workers, and you end up with this.

    3. Re:Why are there no consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. The slow-motion nationalist ethnostate of China is around November 1937 with their nine-dash line, Taiwan, and Tibet. A slow burn version of what we already have gone through. Nobody with the will to fight has noticed we all are the boiling frog.

      Just watch all the US/West == Evil propaganda which is typically pushed in any article critical of China. Would make Goebbels proud.

    4. Re:Why are there no consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Consequences for China because someone does something, China gets blamed, and no evidence is shown?

      It's curious how these Iranian, North-Korean, Russian and Chinese hackers (or hackers from whatever country is currently on the agenda) always manage to leave their business cards behind them, isn't it? And there's always a "report" or "investigation" to inform the public about it, and then a stubborn denial to provide any evidence to the allegations.

      What you see here is not how Chinese intelligence works. This is how Western intelligence and propaganda works.

    5. Re: Why are there no consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. We have a Republican President, if he wanted to fix this he would. He doesn't because China wets his beak.

  5. Chinese state actor haxx0rz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, just msmash and the scareword panic clickbait fetish again.

  6. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think any country respects "intellectual property" you are foolish. The US does this, Russia, China. Lock your crap down and stop complaining.

  7. Time To Nuke China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many rhinos are left on the planet because of TINY CHINESE COCKS?

    Nuke China. Save The Planet!!

  8. Re: Chinese Tiny Cock Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PENIS IS SOOOOOO TINY.

    Thatd why you extincted the rhinos right.. to MAGICALLY grow your cocks.

    IT DIDNT WORK.

    You have TINY cocks and everyone knows!

  9. Re: China lacks LARGE PENISES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep fellating those rhino killers you kuk!

  10. Re: Poohbear Loves You Traitors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many tiny Chinese cocks does it take to kill a rhino for its MAGIC HORN THAT GROWS PENIS!!

    Think about thay. MILLIONS of modern Chinese men have caused the extinction of large animals because the Chinese have TINY PENISES and belive in MAGIC.

    Time to nuke those fuckers off the planet and save the human race!!!

  11. Re: China also has tiny penises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BILLIONS of tiny cocks.

    Theres whole Batallions of queer soldiers because they killed all the baby girls twenty years ago.

    SHITHOLE COUNTRY.
    NUKE IT!

  12. Delta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worked in the nuclear industry and did get to go to China on the AP850 builds (which Westinghouse now calls AP1000 to cover over their negligence in South Carolina and Georgia). Here is the difference. In the US, a manager innovates and it ruffles feathers badly enough, whether it worked or not, and they get fired. In China, a manager innovates and it ruffles feathers badly enough, whether it worked or not, and they get fired upon. Screwing up politically at work can contain the death sentence.

    1. Re: Delta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False!
      and last I checked, the CRISPR baby doc was alive and kicking
      The ONLY thing that gets a Chinese citizen in trouble is breaking the law , though that law does include opposing the government

  13. Hackers steal software secrets? by najajomo · · Score: 0

    Corrected Title: Yet more commie cyberbúllshít from slashdot ..

    Hackers working on behalf of Chinese intelligence breached the network of Norwegian software firm Visma to steal secrets from its clientsref

    Any company that keeps secrets on a computer connected to the Internet deserves to be hacked and it would be a lot simpler and productive to infiltrate a spy into the organization.

  14. Western Countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who's this Western Countries of which you speak?

    Only the paranoid United States of America refers to itself as "Western Countries"

    The rest of us would prefer to distance ourselves from this ball of crap known as the USA.

  15. Re: Chinese Tiny Cock Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do you think they block out their cocks in their pornos? They don't want us to see how small their cocks really are. But we already know, jokes on them. LOL

  16. Re: Poohbear Loves You Traitors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the US president has weird hair and likes golden showers..

  17. Windbourne know all about tiny cocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windbourne has been sucking micropenis Elon right from the beginning.
    If anybody knows tiny cocks, it's Windbourne.

  18. Re: Chinese Tiny Cock Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tiny cocks. Thats why they're outbreeding you white faggots, and will soon be the dominant race while yiur kind grow extinct.

  19. Re: Chinese Tiny Cock Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their women have nice tiny pussies to match, unlike your white women who need multiple donkey dicks to satisfy them.

  20. Re: Poohbear Loves You Traitors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So sell them fake rhino horn powder. Exploit their superstition, get rich, and no need to harm an actual rhino. The horn is made from the same stuff as fingernails, so finding a substitute won't be hard.