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Report That Tesla Autopilot Cuts Crashes By 40% Called 'Bogus' (arstechnica.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the show-me-the-data dept.

Remember when America's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported Tesla's Autopilot reduced crashes by 40%? Two years later the small research and consulting firm Quality Control Systems (QCS) finally obtained the underlying data -- and found flaws in the methodology "serious enough to completely discredit the 40 percent figure," reports Ars Technica, "which Tesla has cited multiple times over the last two years."
The majority of the vehicles in the Tesla data set suffered from missing data or other problems that made it impossible to say whether the activation of Autosteer increased or decreased the crash rate. But when QCS focused on 5,714 vehicles whose data didn't suffer from these problems, it found that the activation of Autosteer actually increased crash rates by 59 percent...

NHTSA undertook its study of Autopilot safety in the wake of the fatal crash of Tesla owner Josh Brown in 2016. Autopilot -- more specifically Tesla's lane-keeping function called Autosteer -- was active at the time of the crash, and Brown ignored multiple warnings to put his hands back on the wheel. Critics questioned whether Autopilot actually made Tesla owners less safe by encouraging them to pay less attention to the road. NHTSA's 2017 finding that Autosteer reduced crash rates by 40 percent seemed to put that concern to rest. When another Tesla customer, Walter Huang, died in an Autosteer-related crash last March, Tesla cited NHTSA's 40 percent figure in a blog post defending the technology. A few weeks later, Tesla CEO Elon Musk berated reporters for focusing on stories about crashes instead of touting the safety benefits of Autopilot....

[T]hese new findings are relevant to a larger debate about how the federal government oversees driver-assistance systems like Autopilot. By publishing that 40 percent figure, NHTSA conferred unwarranted legitimacy on Tesla's Autopilot technology. NHTSA then fought to prevent the public release of data that could help the public independently evaluate these findings, allowing Tesla to continue citing the figure for another year.... NHTSA fought QCS' FOIA request after Tesla indicated that the data was confidential and would cause Tesla competitive harm if it was released.
Last May the NHTSA finally clarified that their study "did not assess the effectiveness of this technology." Ars Technica also points out that the data focused on version 1 of Autopilot, "which Tesla hasn't sold since 2016."

77 comments

  1. Uh.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 0

    I read Slashdot at the time, and that was pretty much the consensus back then.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re: Uh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet they read the number off a football jersey worn by a teenager. It sounded good so they went with it. And by went with it I mean they based their entire marketing and business plan on it to the point where they said they would literally jump off a cliff if they were wrong. I bet they even had a photo of the jersey in the source documentation for proof.

    2. Re: Uh.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      That sounds a lot like a mistake AI might make.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:Uh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I read Slashdot at the time, and that was pretty much the consensus back then.

      Aside from people named Rei or had mod points.

      Clearly Elon stole the Reality Distortion Field Steve Jobs pioneered.

      Now we have

      1. The NSA really is spying on everyone.
      2. Bitcoin is an nonviable ponzi scheme.
      3. Tesla autopilot is neither autopilot nor safe.

      Anyone care to take bets on what is next? Mine is that solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuel. We have heard it many times, but the numbers don't match quite yet.

    4. Re: Uh.. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      3 is wrong, though. Autopilot is autopilot, that is an obvious tautology. And regarding wind and solar...why don't the numbers match? Do Chileans lie? Or Lazard?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re: Uh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. Tesla's autopilot is neither autopilot nor safe.

      FTFY

    6. Re: Uh.. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      It may not be safe but it's obviously an autopilot. Partial truth does not cancel out the falsehood in any statement.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Who are QCS? by 15Bit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not saying this is wrong, but QCS appears to be a husband and wife consulting outfit, looking at their website. Which raises the question - who checked over their research and OK'd this analysis of the statistics?

    1. Re:Who are QCS? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      They are a sham outfit for sure, but the raw NHTSA data isn’t a great metric for the impact of Autopilot on safety, since it includes both miles where autopilot can be used and miles that it can’t. The miles where it can’t be used are generally higher accident rates, so of course the rate is going to be lowere when comparing to miles that autopilot is engaged.

    2. Re:Who are QCS? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      Also I don't believe they compared to other non-Autopilot cars in the same price range. They just compared to all other cars.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:Who are QCS? by Entrope · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You don't have to take QCS's, or anyone else's, word about their work. Their report and the Ars article describe the statistically inappropriate decisions in the NHTSA study.

      For example, the study did not have enough data to tell when Autosteer was enabled for about two thirds of the vehicles considered, so they approximated. That's not intently bad, but the approximation was that the 29,000 vehicles such vehicles had zero pre-Autosteer miles, which is very questionable. That mistake was seriously aggravated by including 18 accidents from these cars in the pre-Autosteer group, which obviously moves miles and/or accidents in a direction that made Autosteer look better.

    4. Re:Who are QCS? by 110010001000 · · Score: 3

      Who checked the NHSTA analysis (or Tesla's). No one.

    5. Re: Who are QCS? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Our 'specialist on the ground' Msmash, no doubt

    6. Re:Who are QCS? by Rei · · Score: 1

      Not saying this is wrong, but QCS appears to be a husband and wife consulting outfit, looking at their website. Which raises the question - who checked over their research and OK'd this analysis of the statistics?

      Absolutely nobody.
      Also, their funding? Who the heck knows
      Peer review? Hahahaha, why bother with that?
      Tesla's response? Why bother to post that?
      The fact that if you read over this "analysis" most of the data appears to validate the NHTSA but the author dismisses it (all but 5714 out of 43781 vehicles) for seemingly inexplicable reasons? Meh!

      It's against Tesla, so by all means, publish it far and wide. "Some guy with a website says that the entire NHTSA is wrong on a 2-year-old report, this totally warrants extensive news coverage!"

      --
      Anchor: "We take you now to our Chief Meteorologist, Paris Hilton." Paris: "It's hot." Anchor: "Thank you."
    7. Re:Who are QCS? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      All other cars on all roads. AP is only for use on highways, that are safer anyway.

      Also when they introduced AP they introduced automatic emergency braking. So it's impossible to say which is responsible for any effects.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re: Who are QCS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't get too defensive. The core point is pretty conclusive: the way the NHTSA came up with "40% safer" is entirely bogus. Essentially the data set the NHTSA used was missing data, and when that happened, they assumed data in such a way that inflated the number of miles driven with autopilot.

      That being said, the "new" number is equally as bogus. By limiting the dataset in the way they did, they created a new sample that is not random and is inherently biased in unknown ways. (Why does this set of cars have all the data fields required while others don't?) Combine that with the fact that ALL cars become less safe the older they get, all they've really done is proven you can cherrypick a data set that shows autopilot is less safe. Which is not that surprising.

      At best we can say is that the method used to come up with "40% safer" is bogus. And that's it. Reporting the "new" number is also bogus.

    9. Re: Who are QCS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shills are out on full force again. And, as usual, because they are out of facts, they attack the messenger ;-)

      Rei, which Russian trolling farm do you work for?

    10. Re: Who are QCS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, if you have no message, attack the messenger.

      We have ABSOLUTELY no reason to discount this study, yet.

      If you can show flaws in the study of the Fed study or just show that the Fed was right in the first place then please post your evidence.

      All you did was post the equivalent of: smoking is bad? Hah! Who paid them to say that? Bad study! Etc etc etc

      In short, they are saying what the rest of us have known for years: Elon and his faux autopilot kills people.

      It is not self driving, it is barely level 2 autonomy. Sheer madness we allow these killers on the public roads.

    11. Re:Who are QCS? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Their report and the Ars article describe the statistically inappropriate decisions in the NHTSA study.

      While introducing a lot of inappropriate analysis themselves. In order to decide that autopilot was bad he (not they, QCS is only one guy) discarded 90% of the available data which resulted in something which completely failed statistical significance tests. So forgive me for not following the outrage here.

      Now what really should happen is that Tesla should open up all their *current* data. They have over a billion miles of data now to work with and that may actually be usable to draw a valid conclusion.

    12. Re:Who are QCS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They have over a billion miles of data now to work with and that may actually be usable to draw a valid conclusion."

      I find it hard to believe, that Musk would not make that available, unless, it doesn't show 'autopilot' in a good light.

    13. Re: Who are QCS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. When the data said 60% safer everyone agreed.

  3. Reports That Tesla's CEO is a Pedo Called 'Factual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    funding secured, brah

    (takes long drag off of a doobie)

  4. That is all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    " it found that the activation of Autosteer actually increased crash rates by 59 percent..."

    Outstanding!

    Let those tears flow, you cultist, fanboy pantywaists.

  5. Still flawed by Dan+East · · Score: 1, Funny

    So the new number crunching by QCS ignores 18 crashes that happened before Autosteer was rolled out, because the total mileage of those vehicles prior to the crash was not known. Yet... those crashes most certainly occurred. In fact, it's quite possible that the crash itself resulted in enough destruction to the vehicle that the odometer could not be read and thus the exact mileage is not known and reported in the data.

    With Autosteer enabled, more data is collected about the vehicle, so the exact mileage is known. QCS, in totally throwing out 18 crashes that definitely occurred to Teslas before Autosteer is as bad or worse than including them when the mileage was not known, again, because the crash could be the cause of the exact mileage not being known in a non-Autosteer state. If the crash was the cause of the missing data, and QCS uses missing data as filter to not include the crash in the statistics, then quite obviously they are going to see different results because of ignoring more than 20% of all the pre autosteer crashes that occurred.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re: Still flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to see the stats on number of zip line crashes. Seriously though how about two or three key takeaways from the whole thing? Eyewitness reports are notorious for being wrong. Even after a slight bump in the back bumper, time slows down and a second feels like a million years. What you see has no significance.

    2. Re:Still flawed by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This new report narrows down the pool of cars and crashes so much that there isn't enough data (there were not enough crashes) to get meaningful results from the analysis.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:Still flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can only use what data you have. The point was the original study was so inherently flawed that if they had used the data they had correcty the new report would have been the results.

  6. Re:A new attempt against Tesla? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Calling out radical flaws in a study that happened to say positive things about Tesla is considered "discrediting Tesla" now?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  7. So what you're saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    that a mere 18 cars in the original 'investigation' is enough to swing the results nearly 100 percentage points (+40 to -59).

    Seems like yet another badly executed examination with a woefully undersized data set.

    At least in this case it can be somewhat justified as the number of accidents involving Tesla cars is extremely small since there aren't that many of them out on the roads in their brief existence as a production vehicle.

    After all, this whole thing started over one incident of a stupid driver misusing a driver assistance technology that was incorrectly called 'Autopilot' by the idiots at Tesla's marketing division.

    Not surprisingly, when you make it sound like the car can drive itself, some of your braindead customers might actually believe you and operate the car as if it can drive itself -- who would've guessed?

    1. Re:So what you're saying is... by fluffernutter · · Score: 0

      Personally I would have counted slamming into a concrete barrier as 1000 accidents, but that's just me.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re: So what you're saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone with brain dead customers could spot another one from a mile away

    3. Re:So what you're saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that a mere 18 cars in the original 'investigation' is enough to swing the results nearly 100 percentage points (+40 to -59).

      Those 18 cars are enough to prove that the data is flawed, because those 18 cars indicate both that they were never driven without autopilot, and that they had accidents that occurred before autopilot was installed. The NHTSA assumed that if there was no "miles driven before autopilot" then the car always had autopilot installed, yet these 18 cars all indicated no miles driven without autopilot AND an autopilot install date after their crash.

      This is why they ended up removing a ton of cars from the dataset - because they determined that there were just too many cars that couldn't be definitively split into "miles driven before autopilot" and "miles driven after autopilot."

      The dataset that remains after that is too small to come to a meaningful conclusion on, but if you use the same method, you get more crashes per mile driven in the "with autopilot" time period than crashes per mile driven in the "without autopilot" time period. Of course, there's another simpler explanation for why this might be: the "with autopilot" time period by definition covers older cars, and older cars tend to have more accidents because more things can go wrong.

  8. XP by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Was the original study even adjusted for age? There will be less younger inexperienced drivers in a Tesla.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re: XP by Type44Q · · Score: 1
      You would think that older, more-experienced drivers are better drivers bit from what I've seen, most experienced drivers simply drive as badly as they did when they weren't experienced.

      My conclusion: most young idiots develop into older idiots.

    2. Re: XP by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Yes yes, humans suck at driving, etc etc meat puppet blah blah.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re: XP by swillden · · Score: 1

      You would think that older, more-experienced drivers are better drivers bit from what I've seen, most experienced drivers simply drive as badly as they did when they weren't experienced.

      My conclusion: most young idiots develop into older idiots.

      Your conclusion is based on unsystematic, anecdotal information. In contrast, the actuaries who work for insurance companies have, and use, extensive data on accidents, cost and fault, all correlated with many driver characteristics including age, training, history of accidents and moving violations, and more. They adjust insurance premiums based on what they learn from systematic statistical analysis of this mountain of data. So, even without access to their data, we can make conclusions about their conclusions just observing how auto insurance premiums vary. How do they?

      Young people pay a *lot* more than older people.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re: XP by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Your conclusion is based on unsystematic, anecdotal information.

      More of an observation than a conclusion: I put 40 to 50 thousand [city!] miles on the odometer anually; I therefore get the opportunity to observe more of my fellow drivers than virtually anyone else.

      In a nutshell, I've found that the vast majority of older drivers are still making the same mistakes younger drivers do. Hence said conclusion.

      Perhaps the essence of what I was attempting to convey was simpler than you realized.

    5. Re: XP by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      FYI, as I replied to the AC, I wasn't referring to driving style; older drivers are clearly calmer and more attentive... and thus statistically safer. That does not make they more skilled.

    6. Re: XP by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      they

      ...theM. :/

  9. Autopilot by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop calling it AutoPilot. It is just drivers assist, just like every other car manufacturer puts in their high end vehicles. Now every jerk thinks they can fall asleep in their Tesla while cruising down the highway.

    1. Re:Autopilot by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Fall asleep at the wheel in your Tesla? That's stupid! I use the AutoPilot so I can peruse Slashdot and answ()&Y%*&P(Y*PPIHSFP(UBBIB:k3018yjnnu233^%%^*

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      I've only fallen asleep while driving on open roads. It's actually quite refreshing to get a cat nap. It took me awhile to build enough trust in the system to actually doze off (real sleep, not just groggy, eyes half closed).

      The system works. Plain and simple. The petrol interests like to push bullshit like this article to try and control the narrative. I won't work. Don't fall for it.

    3. Re:Autopilot by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Sometimes I have a few drinks and fall asleep too. I mean thats why I got a Tesla. Saves me on cab fees.

    4. Re: Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's better than the autopilot on my boat, which can either hold position or keep a constant speed and bearing. Barely. Oh, and it'll sound an alarm and cut throttle if the water gets shallow. Sometimes.

      Autopilot is not self driving, in any application, but for some reason because this has the name Tesla attached to it, different rules and definitions are applied.

    5. Re: Autopilot by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I doubt there's much "thinking" going on but we might be have different ideas of the meaning of the word. ;)

    6. Re:Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes i have a few drinks and end up in bed with my tesla. The autopilot is engaged so the sheets stay clean.

    7. Re:Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A cab? Why don't you just ride home on a dinosaur. Obviously you've never driven a Tesla. Probably a Camry or Rav4 driver by the looks of it.

    8. Re:Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both a Camry and a RAV4 are better built and have more luxurious interiors than any model of Tesla.

    9. Re: Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that what you tell yourself every day when youâ(TM)re cry faced about sucking at life?

    10. Re: Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an objective truth that I obviously need to keep pointing out to those of you sucking on Elon's micropenis.

    11. Re: Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A yugo is better engineered, built and equipped than a shit Tesla.

    12. Re:Autopilot by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me more like a total lack of understanding of the word autopilot. Autopilot has been in planes for years. If you get on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot both are hanging out in first class drinking would we not all freak out? Pilots are paid around 130k a year, spend years training, and we've always known and expected them to be alert and focused on the skies even when the plane is on autopilot. Yet somehow when we put it on the ground we assume it means "no driver needed"

    13. Re:Autopilot by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Hey everybody, I think this is a fake post, or a joke. Obviously, when the internet connection is unexpectedly broken, the post ends with "NO CARRIER".

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    14. Re:Autopilot by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      We'll stop calling this autopilot when you stop calling a plane's autopilot autopilot.

      It is just drivers assist, just like every other car manufacturer puts in their high end vehicles.

      Why not simply write: "I have driven neither a Tesla nor a modern high end vehicle from any other manufacturer." It would hide your ignorant conclusion.

    15. Re:Autopilot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is just drivers assist, just like every other car manufacturer puts in their high end vehicles.

      Why not simply write: "I have driven neither a Tesla nor a modern high end vehicle from any other manufacturer." It would hide your ignorant conclusion.

      Dude, you just fucked yourself by bolstering his assertion that Tesla Autopilot is no different than any "high end" driver assist.

  10. More #FakeNews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I accept Elon's alternative facts -- just like I accept Trumps -- without question!

    1. Re: More #FakeNews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He just needs a clever car commercial some guy puts his car on autopilot, goes to sleep, get crushed by a semi - ambulance comes, EMT says are you ok? Fellow jumps out of car and says Iâ(TM)m more than ok! And breaks into song - ok maybe a bit too cheesy for Tesla

  11. Re:A new attempt against Tesla? by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

    The best cons are when the mark never knows he was conned.

  12. Sounds like PEDOS to Musk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They must be PEDOPHILES out to destroy Elons tripple A gold rating.

  13. Musk a snake oil salesman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well Musk is great at being a snake oil salesman and cooking the books on how successful Tesla is. But he's made bold unsubstantiated claims before so it's no surprise.

  14. It turns out.... by Texmaize · · Score: 1

    It turns out they were using those old pentium chips with the math co-processor error. It was supposed to be 0.45%!!!!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    "Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
  15. 5000 out of 500000 - interesting sampling by I+will+be+back · · Score: 1

    You can always find 1% which is in odds with the main body of facts.

    Nice sampling ;)

  16. Re:A new attempt against Tesla? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only that but they also must be shorts and pedos.

  17. Is this controlled for driving conditions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My concern for stats on non-full-time autopilot is that it leaves the tricky, dangerous driving to a human.

    Controlled-access highways in dry sunny weather are a lot easier to deal with than surface streets with frequent side entrances, in the rain, at night.

    If you just naively compare accidents per mile of travel and don't limit the manual driving to equivalent road conditions, you're going to get a falsely high measurement of manual driving's accident rate.

  18. Iâ(TM)ll bet it is better then Nissans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nissans anti-collision feels like 1960s tech, but it has saved me from a number of incidents. The insurance companies obviously know, but I donâ(TM)t think they are telling.

  19. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you were right then insurance companies would charge young people the same as adults.

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many /.ers will post completely random shit as fact when both common sense, well understood common knowledge or a quick search would show how wrong they are.

    Younger inexperienced drivers cause more crashes. Period. End of story. Fact. You are wrong.

  20. Not who "are", who "is". by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    The guy's name is Randy Whitfield. Based on his resume he's at least got a statistical background and a paper or two to his name and he seems to have been completely silent since the last 80s.

    The NHTSA study had it's flaws, but this guy needed to cut 90% of the data to get to his conclusion and the first 6 pages of his report seem to be a legal hit piece and a whine about the NHTSA not happily just handing over everything they've done and refusing to talk to him after he sued them (surprise).

    But ad hominem aside what we really need is a *current* dataset opened up and analysed.

  21. Hardly surprising by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Autopilot would be great if it actively enforced driver attention. Then you get the best of both worlds. The car can perform mundane actions and react faster than any human when it needs to emergency brake etc. But the human is overseeing the car and road conditions and so able to prevent emergencies from developing in the first place. Sadly Tesla treated driver attention as an afterthought. Drivers are allowed to become inattentive and cannot intervene in time when the car does something dumb. The need to force attention should have been obvious from the beginning. Yet we still see photos of Tesla drivers apparently asleep at the wheel. The fact they can do this and the car does not detect it demonstrates that it is a dangerous system and still not fit for purpose.

  22. Re: Bullshit by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Thank you AC, I couldn't bring myself to type the whole thing out.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  23. Autosteer (Beta) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Autosteer feature is currently in Beta:

    Autosteer is for use on highways that have a center divider and
    clear lane markings, or where there is a car directly ahead to
    follow. It should not be used on other kinds of roads or where the
    highway has very sharp turns or lane markings that are absent,
    faded, or ambiguous. Similar to the autopilot function in airplanes,
    you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle
    while enjoying the convenience of Autosteer.

    Do you want to enable Autosteer while it is in Beta?

    [NO] [YES]

  24. Re: Bullshit by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Period. End of story

    Virtually everything can be distilled down to an oversimplification if you ask a numbers person... but you don't get what the fuck I'm talking about: Sure, older people are statistically safer drivers; after all, they're generally calmer (age) and more attentive (experience). Fuck's sake, that's obvious.

    I didn't say anything about driving style; I was talking about skills.

    Yes, there's a difference.

  25. As a lucky Tesla owner... by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
    As one of the lucky Tesla owners (and Tesla Hacker too), I'm sure it has made my driving significantly safer and increased my life expectancy.

    As for the numbers... well this story has already been debunked last week on electrek.

    Short version: the one person company who made the analysis doesn't understand statistics that well and bases his conclusion on 1% of the total amount of autopilot driven distance...

    I can only think of one reason for disinformation around this subject: stock price manipulation!

    1. Re: As a lucky Tesla owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. A Tesla shill says the story is wrong because he owns a Tesla. Post a link to a pro Tesla website "debunking" the story.

  26. get it right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Y'all don't seem to understand what happened.

    The guy wanted to check NHTSA. NHTSA stonewalled him on getting the raw data. He had to file FOIA to get data. When he got the data, he discovered that NHTSA did not have mileage figures for the pre-autopilot data. As a result, all accidents in that period do not have real mileage data to determine rates. The remaining data, perhaps not statistically significant (something like 1/3 of the data iirc) shows a much higher accident rate for post- compared to pre-.

    Whether the guy is a one man consulting operation or a big outfit like Enron does not change that the NHTSA conclusions are not justified by the data they have. The guy's business is risk analysis, and he has real clients, so it's not out of the question that he actually knows something.

  27. Re: Reports That Tesla's CEO is a Pedo Called 'Fac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry I don't partake, it makes me lazy.

    ***takes long drag from the joint, let's out a fake cough***

  28. Re:A new attempt against Tesla? by stoborrobots · · Score: 1

    Calling out flaws in the original study is acceptable.

    Publishing another flawed study by cutting out 90% of the data and cherry-picking the outcome you want is not acceptable.

    --
    "Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco