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Microsoft Says the FCC 'Overstates' Broadband Availability In the US (vice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Microsoft this week was the latest to highlight the U.S. government's terrible broadband mapping in a filing with the FCC, first spotted by journalist Wendy Davis. In it, Microsoft accuses the FCC of over-stating actual broadband availability and urges the agency to do better. "The Commission's broadband availability data, which underpins FCC Form 477 and the Commission's annual Section 706 report, appears to overstate the extent to which broadband is actually available throughout the nation," Microsoft said in the filing. "For example, in some areas the Commission's broadband availability data suggests that ISPs have reported significant broadband availability (25 Mbps down/3 Mbps up) while Microsoft's usage data indicates that only a small percentage of consumers actually access the Internet at broadband speeds in those areas," Microsoft said.

Similar criticism has long plagued the agency. The FCC's broadband data is received via the form 477 data collected from ISPs. But ISPs have a vested interest in over-stating broadband availability to obscure the sector's competition problems, and the FCC historically hasn't worked very hard to independently verify whether this data is truly accurate. The FCC's methodology has long been criticized as well. As it currently stands, the agency declares an entire ZIP code as "served" with broadband if just one home in an entire census block has it. In its filing, Microsoft "suggested that the Commission's ongoing effort to more accurately measure broadband could be improved by drawing on the FCC's subscription data, along with other broadband data sets from third-parties such as Microsoft, to complement survey data submitted under the current rules."

53 comments

  1. Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I send forms to the government that I fill out purposely wrong for my financial benefit, they'll call it fraud and fine me and possibly throw my ass in jail.

    Why does this not apply here?

    1. Re: Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends if the flag has a gold fringe or not, fellow traveler

    2. Re: Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same way lying to the FBI is a serious crime but the FBI lying to the American is no big deal. AE911Truth dot Org

    3. Re:Double standard by youngone · · Score: 1

      You're not a a member of the ruling class A/C.
      There are different rules for them.

    4. Re:Double standard by PPH · · Score: 1

      If I send forms to the government that I fill out purposely wrong

      On the other hand, how could they blame you for:
      2018 1040 Tax Form for ~po_~{po ~poz~ppo\~{ o n~po_~{o[po ~y oodsou>#w4ko[NO CARRIRER]

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Double standard by Calydor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Easily. He should have upgraded to the broadband available in his area.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    6. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does this not apply here?

      As you can see from many Slashdot comments there are too many people consistently voting for less regulation and less oversight.
      This is the direct consequence of that.

      Of course the common person will still be taxed and regulated otherwise the government can't fund law enforcement and society falls into anarchy.
      But corporate interests on the other hand? Society can sort of work without them being regulated. It can not work well, but it can work.

    7. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's Trumps FCC - in Trump world everything is over stated.

  2. Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence... Unless it's political.

    Need more honest programmers in office.

    AC for president 2020!!!

    1. Re:Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ajit Pai has literally made videos of himself making fun of people who don't agree with his policies. There is no level of incompetence that can explain that. It's pure fucking malice.

    2. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah so now citizens can be lied about, kept from finding out about it, can't fix it, and can't get professional help. So no thanks -AC

      PS no telemetry without power

    3. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by Q-Hack! · · Score: 1

      Not convinced the FCC has overstated the availability of broadband. Looking at the definition of broadband by the FCC... Unless you live in a cave, there is always satellite internet that fits the definition. It may not have the best ping times, but ping times are not included in the definition.

      --
      Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    4. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looking at the definition of broadband by the FCC... Unless you live in a cave, there is always satellite internet that fits the definition. It may not have the best ping times, but ping times are not included in the definition.

      What are these new satellite internet provider(s) meeting the FCC definition?

      It's been about 6 years since I last checked but there was nothing even planned to be on the horizon for 25 Mbps down. I'd love to know what to search for since generic search terms don't turn up anything like that still.

      For synchronous satellite gear the fastest I've seen is 1 Mbps down and a quarter of that up.
      For asynchronous you can get some crazy download speeds but you need to use another form of connectivity for your upstream traffic, such as a dialup modem, DSL, or a PRI/T1

      Since they use CLECs or POTS, aka services from a phone company, those all have even worse availability these days, especially so in remote areas you'd be considering satellite for in the first place.

      Also, not that it matters for the FCC definition, but I've found most synchronous satellite providers have data caps or charge based on data transfer. Sort of like cellular data plans but far more expensive.

      Viasat was one place I almost reconsidered as they dropped their transfer charge plans the end of 2018. They do have caps but exceeding them just prioritizes other customers over you, so again very much like "unlimited" cellular data plans.
      This company used to charge $250/month/150gb (about my monthly usage) but now it's down to $200/month and once you hit 150gb you get a minimum guarantee of 256 Kbps down and then any scraps of bandwidth not being used at the moment.

      HughesNet gives you 10 Mbps down but only 50 GB/month for $150/month, and then charges $5/gb, so my usual usage patterns are basically $650/month with them.

    5. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can get 20 Mbps out of Exede. That's still not 25, but it's pretty close. Upstream is 768k or so, IIRC. I just wish they had RV service. They also throttle streaming video, but I don't care about that. If I want full quality, I'll buy the Blu-Ray.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Satellite connections are explicitly not considered broadband connections under the formal fcc definition, for obvious reasons.

    7. Re: Lack of critical thinkers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the additional suggestion.

      I just checked out Exede, and it looks like they either partner with or utilize Viasat, but their pricing is much lower.

      They actually do offer "up to" 30 Mbps, but a little cheaper than the prices I quoted for Viasat.
      It's normally $150/mo with the first three months at $100. Compared to Viasat directly they charged $200/mo for the same deal.

      They mention similar data caps where they deprioritize you when exceeded, but strangely they do also explicitly mention throttling video just like you said.

      Still, 480p quality up until the cap is exceeded isn't awful, but unfortunately that's something I would miss greatly.

      Anyway, I still wanted to throw a thank you your way.
      Satellite is still not quite up to "broadband" level, but it looks like there are a few more options around than last I checked.

  3. Telemetry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft crying out that their telemetry is getting delayed

  4. Well done. by sconeu · · Score: 1

    I know it's fun to MS bash here, but they are doing the right thing.

    And because it's a ${BIG_CORPORATION} complaining instead of public interest groups or ${PEONS}, maybe something will actually get done (but I doubt it)

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Well done. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has a vested interest that just happens to align with our interest in this situation. Faster broadband speeds for everyone would mean more people could use things like their XBox online gaming systems. If you have slow Internet, you're much less likely to use this stuff and their customer base shrinks. So Microsoft stands to profit more if we have better Internet connectivity. It doesn't mean I don't welcome their help, mind you. It just explains why they're on our side in this matter, but will be anti-consumer on other issues - they are a corporation and so they follow the money.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Well done. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I know it's fun to MS bash here, but they are doing the right thing.

      Yes, for their business. They're not doing it because it's the right thing, they're doing it because it's the pragmatic thing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. Of course. by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Microsoft wants people to move to their cloudy rented OS, and limited broadband is a major stumbling block to that plan.

    --
    First law of people: People are generally stupid.
    1. Re:Of course. by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1

      And/or their cloudy rented streaming game thing.

      --
      First law of people: People are generally stupid.
    2. Re: Of course. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the FCC will fix it all very quickly and quietly and not wait for endless lawsuits when all the little people figure out exactly who is trying to screw them and what their legal addresses are and who their officers are

    3. Re:Of course. by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      Cloud ohh all soft and fluffy, when in reality more like a solid concrete suit, where you have no control and they have total control, only slightly worse than Windows anal probe 10. They are such a disgusting company, that even when they are right, they make it impossible to support them. Ohhh lock some one finally worse than the tiny limpers, the FCC, wow you have to go really low to get lower than M$.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. If the internet giant came together.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And actually listed all their users' internet speed in the US as proof that the ISPs and the FCC are full of shit, that'd great.

  7. The Shield of Achilles by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    Internet service providers are universally descriptive in the effectiveness of their connection; up to

    (25 Mbps down/3 Mbps up).

    Technically, and of much greater importance, legally, their advertising has not breached litigious level with this claim from the Madmen.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re: The Shield of Achilles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the FCC. The traffic providers.

    2. Re:The Shield of Achilles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like it is high time to set the bar for some minimum value that must be guaranteed at least 90% of the time.

    3. Re:The Shield of Achilles by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      My experience with 3G as a internet source says that once you get 10% packet loss, you can't go anywhere near the capacity the line has to offer.
      With 3G, once you connect you now have a minimum 10% packet loss, 100 ping, and a very unstable download line. This is with both a router with dedicated antennas and cellphone as modem.
      I've also experienced radio internet, where you have receives like the kind used for satellites pointing at a nearby radio tower. Which doesn't really come with any limitations except for extreme rain, where it do dent the speed cap.
      Copper wire seem to have no impact on caps, and you get exactly what you benchmark unless the connection is overloaded somewhere down the spine towards the backbone. So if you have a 80/10 copper line, and you get 40/5, then its generally impossible to get 80/10.

      The general gist of it, is that 'up to' is only meaningful if you benchmark it, and find out the line is incapable of delivering that in any conditions. With stronger contract law on consumer side ISP can't weasel their way out of reduced peak capacity either.

  8. What's wrong with 110 baud? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I mean, come on, all you speed daemons need to mellow out, just let each character scroll slowly over your screen and let the corporate megalopoly provide you with what it can charge you top dollar for.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re: What's wrong with 110 baud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      High-speed internet encourages wasteful programming.

    2. Re:What's wrong with 110 baud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, come on, all you speed daemons need to mellow out, just let each character scroll slowly over your screen and let the corporate megalopoly provide you with what it can charge you top dollar for.

      Another poster said that high speed internet encourages wasteful programming. It was said in sarcasm, but he has a point. There is a lot of stuff sent too many times over links. multilevel caching should be part of the internet, automatically.

      Seriously how hard is it to send "Give me the file that hashes to this SHA256 hash" and have a cache get it to you quickly. Of course you have to be careful to prevent too much tracking, but then multi level caching can sometimes help there, since your request may not need to travel very far.

      Even netflix style things can work here, since you can slice and dice files so your retrieving piece 2 of 333 (i.e. bittorrent style). Sure there are details to work out, but I see no reason why caching can't be made generic and way more effective.

    3. Re: What's wrong with 110 baud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Caching introduces stale data, and makes it harder to diagnose and correct issues if the fixes are not replicated out in a reasonable time frame. Unless you are talking about the most popular content, where the cache can live for mere minutes and reduce the load by gbps. Otherwise caching is impractical. There are also the HTTPS pipes to consider. In order to intercept a file to redirect it to a cached file, the HTTPS connection has to be broken, and you have to connect to a third party. For more populat websites, it may be possible and cost effective to maintain a local mirror which can be served up for DNS calls, but again this results in stale data.

    4. Re:What's wrong with 110 baud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously how hard is it to send "Give me the file that hashes to this SHA256 hash" and have a cache get it to you quickly. Of course you have to be careful to prevent too much tracking, but then multi level caching can sometimes help there, since your request may not need to travel very far.

      There are two appropriate answers here. The first is: it's not very hard to build a toy that meets the literal specification of your words.

      The second is that: the real world demands production quality code in the wild, and to meet the specification while also providing each stakeholder with what they desire is an intractable problem--because they have mutually exclusive desires (e.g., crypto backdoors vs. user privacy). Very smart people spend enormous amounts of time thinking about this exact problem.

    5. Re: What's wrong with 110 baud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. If you could type faster than the data transmitted, maybe people would be more careful in their typing.

  9. fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FCC has been hijacked by terrorist traitors who only survive due to the yellow cowardice of armed american patriots.

  10. That data ain't free... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or MS wants to get reimbursed by the FCC for providing their own broadband data.

  11. Here's an idea by wyattstorch516 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why doesn't Microsoft build a map out of all the locations that don't have broadband access? Must be an easy thing to do if you listen to them.

    1. Re:Here's an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't Microsoft build a map out of all the locations that don't have broadband access? Must be an easy thing to do if you listen to them.

      Bing[o]!

    2. Re: Here's an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those would be dark zones, where Microsoft has no telemetry. It is unlikely that Microsoft will have ongoing billing in areas where there is no bandwidth, so Microsoft is unlikely to have customers to confirm a lack of telemetry.

      Microsoft may be able to correlate ISPs to demonstrate underserved areas. For instance few would likely sign up for satellite if there was any other option available. Also, an abundance of mobile hotspots with 100% accurate telemetry data would also suggest an underserved area, especially if the bandwidth is typically less than the Obama standard of 10mbps down.

    3. Re: Here's an idea by Calydor · · Score: 1

      They don't need to compare to billing; they only need to compare to a map of the US showing where all the residential areas are. Wherever there are people but no telemetry it would be safe to say there's probably a lack of connection - at least to the point of going there to check the speed manually.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  12. Microsoft to FCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dear FCC,

    The telemetry of our products is now making a significant impact on Internet connections.

    Please give MOAR bandwidth.

    Smooches,
    Microsoft Corp.

  13. And they also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't invest a dime to qualified people, they'd rather setup a schedule to murder their minds.

    And of course they won't say what they are going to do when everyone's overpopulating and complacent.

  14. Microsoft will drop it within weeks by bob8766 · · Score: 2

    Verizon and AT&T are going to call a few executives at Microsoft and threaten to take their business to Google or Amazon, these executives are then going to call the people who filed the report with the FCC and tell them to abandon it or else, and that will be the end of it.

    The same thing happened with Net Neutrality and it's going to happen again now.

    1. Re:Microsoft will drop it within weeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe. Maybe not.
      Keep in mind that Microsoft and their push to software as a service is strongly dependent on a lot of people being connected to the internet through broadband. That is the only way all that cloud nonsense and easy collection of user data can work.
      What the FCC does is in conflict with what Microsoft wants, with what google or Amazon want. They're all on the cloud wagon and as long as they can't cover very large areas with their own infrastructure and become independent of other ISPs, they'll probably stick together.

  15. They’re not wrong by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    MS, in my opinion, is still a terrible company. But I don’t think they’re wrong on this point. MS wants consumers to have access to better broadband for the company’s goals and not purely altruistic ones. But given what we know already about the FCC’s past inaccurate characterization of broadband, it’s reasonable to assume they can do it again. This time under Pai, I’m not going to assume it’s incompetence; I’m going to assume it’s dishonesy.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  16. I was duped by bad broadband maps by chewtoy-11 · · Score: 1

    I'm a software engineer and when I bought my current home, I made the mistake of relying on the broadbandmap.gov website. It showed that I had lots of cable internet options, so you can imagine my surprise when after signing over the next 30 years of my life, that I had... get this, ZERO options available. Satellite doesn't count, because using RDS streaming to stream desktops to your machine kills bandwidth. DSL wasn't even an option, because all of the circuits were being utilized. I was lucky enough to work for a company that had some sway with a local terrestrial wireless carrier (they also run a data center), and they put up a repeater for a line-of-sight tower nearby, that granted me a 6Mbit plan with no data caps.

    --
    C. Griffin
    "Can I keep his head for a souvenir?" --Max from Sam 'N Max Freelance Police
    1. Re:I was duped by bad broadband maps by bobs666 · · Score: 1

      You where lucky! Comcast(X-zero) has a line at the end of my drive way. But my house is 800feet (250m) away from that line. No way in hell they said they would run a line to me. Seems the cable is over extended on a dead end road with about 20 homes here. Well ok one day they said I could pay $7,000.USD for them to put a pop sight in my yard, but took that off the table the next day. So I have a Verizon DSL that gives me a whopping 0.8 Meg Bits per sec for $60.00 USD per month. WOW! In my opinion need some enforcement on there Monopoly status of carriers arouns here. Is there Data in the US for other then the rich or the over populated. Got to move to a Google City. or get packed like a sardine.

  17. Only part of the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of what I've seen for ADSL reporting is approximately correct where there's no false claim of 25Mbps where only 3-6 is available. On the other hand, the FCC reports still consider satellite and 3g coverage reporting at 25Mbps even though there's no way to actually receive that.

  18. Both are crap, stop listening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FCC and Pai are as useful as a kickstand on a cruise ship.
    Microsoft steals user data from its operating system that You can't do anything about. (actually, I did something about it, but most people don't even try)

    Put them together and you have a useless, lying company trying to make money with some questionable data.

    Repeating the same mistakes over and over again is the definition of insanity.

    They all need to stop and then go away.