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Facebook To Fight Belgian Ban On Tracking Users (And Even Non-Users) (bloomberg.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the brb-getting-popcorn dept.

Last year, a Belgian court ruled that Facebook would have to stop tracking Belgian internet users and delete the data it's already gathered on them, or face fines of about $280,000 a day. "Belgium's data-protection regulators have targeted the company since at least 2015 when a court ordered it to stop storing non-users' personal data," Mercury News reported at the time. Facebook is now fighting the Belgian court's decision, and will go "face to face with the Belgian data protection authority in a Brussels appeals court for a two-day hearing starting on Wednesday," reports Bloomberg. From the report: Armed with new powers since the introduction of stronger European Union data protection rules, Belgium's privacy watchdog argues Facebook "still violates the fundamental rights of millions of residents of Belgium." The Brussels Court of First Instance in February 2018 ruled that Facebook doesn't provide people with enough information about how and why it collects data on their web use, or what it does with the information. "Facebook then uses that information to profile your surfing behavior and uses that profile to show you targeted advertising, such as advertising about products and services from commercial companies, messages from political parties, etc," the Belgian regulator said in an emailed statement on Wednesday.

Belgium's data protection authority last year won the court's backing for its attack against Facebook's use of cookies, social plug-ins -- the "like" or "share" buttons -- and tracking technologies that are invisible to the naked eye to collect data on people's behavior during their visits to other sites. Facebook understands "that people want more information and control over the data Facebook receives from other websites and apps that use our services," the company said in a statement. "That's why we are developing Clear History, that will let you to see the websites and apps that send us information when you use them, disconnect this information from your account, and turn off our ability to store it associated with your account going forward," it said. "We have also made a number of changes to help people understand how our tools work and explain the choices they have, including through our privacy updates."

57 comments

  1. *Even* non-users? by ChatHuant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and even non-users

    I'd say there is a certain justification for Facebook to track users - those are, after all, people who have intentionally created an account (even though they may not have been aware of the hidden tracking), and who are using the resources Facebook provides. However, tracking non-users doesn't even have this weak excuse, and should be an absolute no-no. The same is true for Google and all other data vampires.

    1. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What really pisses me off about this is the way some local services ask Facebook for profile information on every registered user as part of the ToS, and there is no way to deny this (which is probably against the GDPR). Facebook gets shadow profile ingredients for all of them without the users realizing it. It was just a dumb luck that I actually read the ToS before singing on.

    2. Re:*Even* non-users? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Zuckerberg sat in front of Congress last year and told them Facebook didn't use shadow profiles of non-users. It's funny that the company has been previously fighting Belgium over a practice they claim they don't use.

      Under many circumstances I am usually one to trot out the old saw "don't attribute to malice ...", but frankly I consider Facebook to be fundamentally malicious - and Zuckerberg to be fundamentally an evil person. I don't know how anyone who works for Facebook can live with themselves knowing that the world would be better off without them doing their job.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well they don't use "shadow profiles" , they use" Non-User data acquisition sets", a completely different thing.

    4. Re:*Even* non-users? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tracking non-users is illegal in the EU, under the GDPR. Anything like that has to be opt-in.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:*Even* non-users? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      However, tracking non-users doesn't even have this weak excuse

      The weak excuse used by most networking sites for tracking non-users is "that way when you sign up your friend list will be populated by magic". Which, if you do sign up, is a nice benefit. It's not really a thing anymore, since everyone who was going to sign up did, and it always was shitty practice even if you buy into that justifications.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    6. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and even non-users

      I'd say there is a certain justification for Facebook to track users - those are, after all, people who have intentionally created an account (even though they may not have been aware of the hidden tracking), and who are using the resources Facebook provides. However, tracking non-users doesn't even have this weak excuse, and should be an absolute no-no. The same is true for Google and all other data vampires.

      Are you kidding? Non-users are also intentionally visit websites, which leaves a big HELLO I LIVE AT THIS IP in every server log.

      The way to handle this is with a do-not-track option that is required to be honored by law, with steep penalties for being found violating that law. Also perhaps which is required to be set for certain categories of websites, such as those hosting medical information.

    7. Re: *Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does have to be a Jew, this is capitalist behavior, not Jew behavior.

    8. Re:*Even* non-users? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Zuckerberg sat in front of Congress last year and told them Facebook didn't use shadow profiles of non-users. It's funny that the company has been previously fighting Belgium over a practice they claim they don't use.

      Under many circumstances I am usually one to trot out the old saw "don't attribute to malice ...", but frankly I consider Facebook to be fundamentally malicious - and Zuckerberg to be fundamentally an evil person. I don't know how anyone who works for Facebook can live with themselves knowing that the world would be better off without them doing their job.

      What is really needed badly is since Facebook considers that knowing users and even non-users every online activit is their right, the time is right for poisoning the tracks. Send random urls to Facebook, so that the confidence in their tracking is 0, They want tracking - give them millions of tracks. to track. And make certain that their advertisersers know that they are now getting bullshit.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry they're introducing "safe-screwyourass" and "clear-as-mud" - these technologies give you the means to disable Facebook collection of data. This opt-out policy means everyone has the ability to disable this collection.

      Except...there's no guarantee we honor that mouse click...assuming you can find where it is in the menus. Good luck disabling it if you're a non-user because, uh, there's no menu that you can get into. We also reserve the right to collect your information at the point you select the option to not collect your information.

      Data protection law in England has always stated that businesses should only collect information from their customers that is relevant to the functioning of the business. You can argue that Facebook is in the business of collecting all your information which is just a convenient workaround. The thing that doesn't work is shadow profiles - the profiles they collect on non-customers. That's defacto illegal and unjustifiable per UK data protection law.

      Buuuut...all laws are flexible if you pay the right person the right amount of money.

      We should all stalk Mark, and his wife, and kids. Follow them around EVERYWHERE. Take pictures of them whenever they're in a crowd, or not, or anywhere out and about no matter what they're doing. Post the locations of the pictures. Post his home address(es) and phone numbers. Use Facebook to attack Zuckerbergs' privacy and see how long these rules hold up. That's what he's doing to the world so the world needs to return the favor. This might make him feel a little uncomfortable and exposed but that's basically what he's pushing on the rest of the population anyway so it's a fair trade.

      (Oh, that's right, he bought a private corner of an island for himself...because he wants privacy)

    10. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sending out a "do not track" variable and expecting *everyone* to honour it is incredibly optimistic, and doomed to fail. What you need to do is be permanently behind a VPN on your phone, PC, tablet, etc; and also use an ad blocker to prevent tracking urls from being contacted while you're browsing.

    11. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they are different how exactly? a different name? great thanks...

    12. Re:*Even* non-users? by jriding · · Score: 2

      Actually if this is a law in that country, it doesn't matter if facebook has people sign up and that is what they agree to. When did breaking the law for large companies and wealthy people become ok since contracts and stuff.
      WTF people. If a country decides that it is wrong and is no longer legal then it is illegal. No matter if the person or company really want it to be legal.

      --
      love the taste, hate the texture
    13. Re:*Even* non-users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When they're not on facebooks site and not intentionally using any facebook 'resources'? F that. There's no justification other than greed and disregard for your privacy.

    14. Re:*Even* non-users? by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Zuckerberg sat in front of Congress last year and told them Facebook didn't use shadow profiles of non-users. It's funny that the company has been previously fighting Belgium over a practice they claim they don't use.

      +1 Insightful

      Under many circumstances I am usually one to trot out the old saw "don't attribute to malice ...", but frankly I consider Facebook to be fundamentally malicious - and Zuckerberg to be fundamentally an evil person. I don't know how anyone who works for Facebook can live with themselves knowing that the world would be better off without them doing their job.

      Much as I dislike Facebook and discourage everyone I know from using it, I don't think Zuckerberg is an "evil" person. I think he's an amoral person who is annoyed that people object to (and attempt to thwart) some of his monetization schemes.

  2. Smells like big tobacco by Zaelath · · Score: 1

    This seems like they're desperate to keep this idea from gaining traction so it doesn't happen in other markets. It also seems ludicrous given Brussels.

  3. How does that work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does their "Clear History" work for the people that Facebook tracks and collects data on that do not have a Facebook account and don't use Facebook at all? Anyone with half a brain knows that Facebook only exists to collect and sell data to advertisers, BUT they should only collect data on Facebook users, and then only data that users enter while on Facebook!!!

  4. Allow them to track for a few months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I need to sell my stocks.

    1. Re: Allow them to track for a few months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Not using them? Next time, make your stocks from maple or cherry, something with a nice finish. That way, even if they're not being used, they look nice in the front yard.

  5. Pull out of the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They would pull out if they were serious. They are not. It is all Kabuki.

  6. Dear Zuckerfuck the Douchebag ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "That's why we are developing Clear History, that will let you to see the websites and apps that send us information when you use them, disconnect this information from your account, and turn off our ability to store it associated with your account going forward"

    Dear Zuckerfuck:

    I don't use your fucking service. And yet, half of the sites I visit have your shit embedded in it for you to track me.

    I haven't given you consent to track me, and I'm not signing up for an account to find out what you have and disable it.

    So how about you stop tracking us without our consent? Or maybe it's time to start physically assaulting Facebook staff and dragging them through the streets?

    Sincerely, the rest of the motherfucking world.

    Facebook is a company of douchebags and assholes, fighting for their perceived "right" to track us without our permission, or outright against our will.

    If you work for Facebook, you have forfeited your right to privacy and physical security. You should be assaulted and doxxed, and so should your family.

    Fuck you, Facebook you fucking douchebags.

    1. Re:Dear Zuckerfuck the Douchebag ... by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      Dear Zuckerfuck:

      I don't use your fucking service. And yet, half of the sites I visit have your shit embedded in it for you to track me.

      I haven't given you consent to track me, and I'm not signing up for an account to find out what you have and disable it.

      I have Facebook.com and a few other related domains blocked in my hosts file.

      It works. APK is not completely wrong.

    2. Re:Dear Zuckerfuck the Douchebag ... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Dear Zuckerfuck:

      I don't use your fucking service. And yet, half of the sites I visit have your shit embedded in it for you to track me.

      I haven't given you consent to track me, and I'm not signing up for an account to find out what you have and disable it.

      I have Facebook.com and a few other related domains blocked in my hosts file.

      It works. APK is not completely wrong.

      Hopefully you use a script blocker as well. Facebook tries to hide their tracking servers, so you have to do a little research to find out which ones are FB's. Or just block all scripts.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:Dear Zuckerfuck the Douchebag ... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You must be one of the idiots that uses IE/Edge exclusively, because FireFox/Chrome explicitly ignores the OS HOSTs file.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  7. Facebook is a stalker by ffkom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    and on a very large scale. I don't see why they should be treated different from creeps following people around, peeking through windows to see what they do. And while most stalkers do such things just for their personal satisfaction, Facebook does it also for money - selling the results of their stalking to others. Disgusting.

  8. Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To see how many shillbags on here come out to defend corporate surveillance on this story...

  9. My man, I'm NEVER ever wrong... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have Facebook.com and a few other related domains blocked in my hosts file. It works. APK is not completely wrong. - by rudy_wayne (414635) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @06:55PM (#58344456)

    My man, I'm NEVER ever wrong - ever.

    * :)

    APK

    P.S.=> Enjoy & For the best hosts file multiplatform:

    APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between chars & download)

    APK Hosts File Engine 10++ SR-1 32/64-bit for Windows https://hosts-file.net/?s=Down... (DL link @ bottom)

    Soon for MacOS too (I just got a NEW Mac-Mini to port it there)... apk

  10. Re: I am ready to HOST at the trucker stop.. apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It must severely frustrate you to see more slashdotters say APK is right on hosts files today here https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

  11. How else can FB steal your metadata? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    What's next, not letting them keep interfacing with your cell location after you left the FB app??

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  12. More EU nation laws and control by AHuxley · · Score: 0

    Over US product and services people in the EU selected to use over years.
    People did not want EU service and products. They went with the US product that offered what they wanted for free.
    Now an EU nation wants to shape the free market with new EU style laws and regulations?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:More EU nation laws and control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actual European here.
      Saying people want Americunt services is like saying the Chinese wanted British opium.

      Personally I want all American cancer services to die, and their CEOs gutted like pigs.
      China should have its own internet, and so should Europe to reflect differences in European values such as love of naked women. Not nasty prudish yank burger culture.

    2. Re:More EU nation laws and control by AHuxley · · Score: 0

      AC people all over the EU made that selection with every decade of computer use.
      They had the freedom to select early computer OS and GUI OS.
      US brands like Microsoft and Apple provided the price and quality people all over the EU wanted.
      People in the EU selected to support US brands for their social media. Again for the price and freedom of speech.
      EU nations respond not with better quality products and services but with laws, censorship and taxes.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:More EU nation laws and control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not convincing a single person with that shit.
      Microsoft have always produced garbage from day one, and now it's garbage with surveillance.

      People will get wise eventually. Teaching doctors to wash their hands was hard, and teaching people that American shit spies on them will be harder, but it will happen. Laws must protect vulnerable members of society who fall for American/Israeli tricks.

      The EU will smash every one of these wretched monopolies to bits.

      Also you've poisoned the meaning of "freedom of speech" by miss using it. Now we all know it just means yanks spreading their right-wing propaganda, so it can safely be ignored. Literally fuck "freedom of speech".
      Anti-american sentiment has never been stronger, and I'm loving every minute of it.

    4. Re:More EU nation laws and control by AHuxley · · Score: 0

      Re AC and the "produced garbage from day one"
      That people all over the EU paid full price for US quality over decades.
      Computer OS, games, business software.
      Due to the fact it worked and did what was needed all over the EU.
      Brands all over the EU lost the ability to code for 8 bit and 16 bit OS in the open and free market.
      People with the freedom to buy selected advanced US brands with the support they wanted for decades.
      Now people all over the EU enjoy the services of US social media products.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:More EU nation laws and control by bungo · · Score: 2

      People did not want EU service and products. They went with the US product that offered what they wanted for free.

      Fine. I agree. The facebook users wanted something for free and they paid for it with their personal data.

      But, I don't use Facebook. Why should they be able to collect data on me?

      Please explain.

      Right, since there's no defence against them tracking me, then I want my government to stop them from doing it. MY rights are being violated, not Facebooks.

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
    6. Re:More EU nation laws and control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      EU nations respond not with better quality products and services but with laws, censorship and taxes.

      EU nations respond with requiring actual informed consent from the customer and making it very clear wheb you are interacting with FB. They also respond with the clear statement that someone who is not a customer should be considered by default as not having given informed consent.

      They require the same from Baidu or Yandex. But those are simply not that popular in the EU, so it wouldn't pay to go after those services first.

    7. Re:More EU nation laws and control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We did not have a choice. Microsoft practices were illegal in Belgium. Microsoft had a lot of power over the computer wholesale. A computer with Windows preinstalled was cheaper than the same computer without OS. If you wanted an alternative OS, it was cheaper to buy a computer that was preinstalled with Windows + the price for the alternative OS.
       
      So Microsoft managed to sell a copy of Windows for almost every computer they sold. They were sued and found guilty but also were not punished because banning their practice would have a negative impact on the Belgian economy.
       
      Microsoft already had become too powerful and as a thanks they 'invested' in the Belgian schools by giving a 40% discount on license keys for Office and Windows for the Belgian schools. The hundreds of millions they 'invested' was further market corruption. They didn't make anything except a product key since they just sold a standard copy of their OS and Office.
       
        It was however seen as a victory by the Belgian minister who was responsible for this deal. This was around the time when a stranger planted a pie in Bill Gates face which many people probably still remember here on Slashdot.
      br>Several companies, including computer manufacturers who dared to sell computers with alternative OS or Office, went bankrupt. When there was no longer any competition left, it became even impossible to no buy Windows with your computer (except when you build it yourself). The so called Microsoft tax.

  13. You can block 3rd party scripts in hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can block 3rd party scripts in hosts - FASTER vs. NoScript in slower usermode (compounded by messagepass overhead addons create in browsers - WORSE if you stack multiple addons (fact, no matter WHAT browser makers do, it is FACT))

    Hosts do it FASTER @ kernelmode level superior speed no less (all calls boil down to sys/sockets.h = why).

    * SOME "FYI" for you...

    HOWEVER: The 1 addon I use? NoScript - why? LOL - helps me FIND those script to block is why (good tool for me especially).

    I end up using NoScript to do a BETTER FASTER JOB in hosts, lol.

    Advertisers will NEVER ever let their tracker scripts be on a website side (they don't TRUST webmasters is why).

    APK

    P.S.=> Yes, sir: It is GOOD to be "The LORD of Hosts" (so-to-speak)... apk

  14. Re: I am ready to HOST at the trucker stop.. apk by Khyber · · Score: 1

    If they're saying APK is right when he's wrong (in fact every browser minus IE/Edge explicitly IGNORES the OS HOSTs settings) then lol those aren't slashdotters, they're fucking APK shills.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  15. Easy to get around advertiser bs Khyber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & for FireFox (who didn't "obey" JEWgle): network.dnsCacheEntries 0
    network.trr.mode to 5 (SHUTS IT OFF)
    network.trr.uri (set to 208.67.222.222)

    (Via about:config)

    For CHROME even (oddly):

    urn "Data Saver" off (credit green1 https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... )

    APK

    P.S.=> Now, as far as "idiot"? Well, let's see YOUR stupidity boy (lol) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... so PLEASE: Do NOT try to "play expert" or call others names, WANNABE... apk

  16. LOL, easy to override advertisers... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hahahahahaha see subject & YOUR noob level STUPIDITY Khyber (you did this to yourself) https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... + especially THIS (lol, NOOB) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... which was FAR worse & INDICATIVE of your "noobiness" (especially in Windows the MOST used PC/Server OS combined, lol).

    * Are you TRYING to make ME look GOOD or what?

    APK

    P.S.=> NOOB WANNABE - I've got DOZENS of your fuckups bookmarked but this one (where you COMPLIMENT me)? CLASSIC & Priceless https://slashdot.org/users2.pl... (post was deleted BUT YOUR HISTORY SHOWS YOU SAID I AM RIGHT on the very modem you use that "stymied" you, L1/L2/NOC personnel in my discussions w/ them AGREEING w/ me too (CHINA))... apk

    1. Re:LOL, easy to override advertisers... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An ego run amok. You need a hug homie? Why are you looking so hard for attention? I will thank you for pushing me to quit coming to this site to read these sorts of butt-hurt rants. Bye, peace, one, f*ck you.

    2. Re:LOL, easy to override advertisers... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Khyber's stupid run amok personified! APK quoted his noob rookie mistake on correcting it here https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

  17. Facebook couldn't care less about you. by Archangel_Azazel · · Score: 1

    "Facebook understands "that people want more information and control over the data Facebook receives from other websites and apps that use our services," the company said in a statement."

    More like Facebook is trying to slow the inevitable process of people taking control of the user of their data back as much as possible, and it has billions to do so. Luckily they practically own the government at this point so they'll always have a place here in the UFSA.

    --
    Your mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's been opened.
  18. gweihir KNOWS better & subie = a dolt... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gweihir KNOWS better (told u fools off knowing u IMPERSONATE me) https://science.slashdot.org/c... & subie = a DOLT https://hardware.slashdot.org/... I let ANNIHILATE himself publicly due to HIS stupidity vs. me!

    * Hilariously STUPID of "subie" that was & I shot him to pieces for it.

    APK

    P.S.=> All too easily... apk

  19. Re: I am ready to HOST at the trucker stop.. apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HEAR HEAR, kind and delightful moderator would you please indulge the community of civilized Slashdotters and delete this thread? It seems to have descended into utter tomfoolery!

    Yours Truly,
    -Herb