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Can Marc Andreessen Stop Technology From Eating Our Jobs? (hackernoon.com)

Technology writer Tom Chanter explores the life story of venture capitalist Marc Andreessen to ask whether software will not only eat the world, but also the jobs of what one historian predicts will be a "massive new unworking class: people devoid of any economic, political or even artistic value." Can Marc Andreessen prevent a so-called "useless class" who "will not merely be unemployed -- it will be unemployable"?

Andreessen grew up in New Lisbon, Wisconsin (population: 1,500), and taught himself the BASIC programming language at age 8. He co-developed the original Mosaic web browser before he'd graduated from college, went on to co-found Netscape, and by age 23 was worth $53 million. He then transformed into a "super angel" investor in companies like Twitter, Airbnb, Lyft, Facebook, Skype, and GitHub. "Having been an innovator in the tech start-up game, Andreessen is now an innovator in the tech venture capital game," writes Chanter. "He is a jedi that has become the master." In 2011, Marc Andreessen published an article in the Wall Street Journal titled, Why Software Is Eating The World. He wrote, "Over the next 10 years, the battles between incumbents and software-powered insurgents will be epic...." 7 years later, it's clear Andreessen was correct. Lyft has destroyed taxi jobs. Airbnb has destroyed hotel jobs. Amazon destroyed independent bookstores. How does Andreessen feel about that? "Screw the independent bookstores," he said in his New Yorker profile. "There weren't any near where I grew up. There were only ones in college towns. The rest of us could go pound sand."
But the 4,900-word article also notes Andreessen's pledge to give half his income to charitable causes -- and his observation in a 2015 interview that outside of the United States, global income inequality is falling, not rising. "He has seen technology transform his own life, and has seen how technology has bridged the global wealth gap. Why shouldn't he be optimistic about the future of America's working class?"

And Andreessen's ultimate answer to the jobs destroyed by technology may be Udacity. The article cites Andreessen's investment in the company in 2012, and points to the online education platform's hopeful mission statement. "Virtually anyone on the planet with an internet connection and a commitment to self-empowerment through learning can come to Udacity, master a suite of job-ready skills, and pursue rewarding employment."

As a boy in Wisconsin he was starved for information. He has created an education institution accessible from Wisconsin to Africa. As a boy in Wisconsin he was starved for connection. He has married an innovative philanthropist and author, Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen. They have a son named John. Andreessen is optimistic for both the working class and the future tech elite.

In his New Yorker profile he says of his son, "He'll come of age in a world where ten or a hundred times more people will be able to contribute in science and medicine and the arts, a more peaceful and prosperous world."

He added, tongue in cheek, "I'm going to teach him how to take over that world!"

152 comments

  1. Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet another tech-bro full of hotair and himself.

  2. Frosty by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Somebody built a replica of the house from Gone with the Wind in antarctica.

    c6gunner says it's a Polar Tara.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re: Frosty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C6fag also is still blaming the pilots.

  3. Judge Dredd comics predicted this trend by Just+A+Gigolo · · Score: 2

    Back in 80’s the dystopian society of Mega-City 1 could not offer jobs to only 13 percent of poplulation. The rest just had to find a hobby to keep them occupied during their useless life.

    1. Re:Judge Dredd comics predicted this trend by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      One of my favourite stories from 2000AD was about a guy who had three jobs - a day job in an office, an evening job (waiter IIRC) and a night job in a bed factory as a tester.

      Job hoarding is a crime and needless to say he was like totally judged.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Judge Dredd comics predicted this trend by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The number coincides with the about 10-15% of independent thinkers. These will always be in demand, because they can deal with non-standard situations. The rest can be automated away.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  4. Betteridge by mentil · · Score: 1

    NO.

    People here say "what happens when the elite no longer need the little people" but they're thinking small.
    What happens when the machines no longer need the elite people?

    We're going to end up the live-action equivalent of Youtube cat videos, existing for the enjoyment of robots.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re: Betteridge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're going to end up the live-action equivalent of Youtube cat videos, existing for the enjoyment of robots.

      Keep running your stupid mouth. Nobody is listening.

    2. Re: Betteridge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep running your stupid mouth. Nobody is listening.

      I am.

    3. Re:Betteridge by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      People here say "what happens when the elite no longer need the little people" but they're thinking small. What happens when the machines no longer need the elite people?

      We haven't even reached the first scenario yet, although it's coming up rapidly. It's not clear that we will ever reach the second. It may not actually be physically possible. We understand consciousness poorly enough that we can't say for sure that it will be.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Betteridge by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

      People here say "what happens when the elite no longer need the little people" but they're thinking small. What happens when the machines no longer need the elite people?

      We haven't even reached the first scenario yet

      Actually, we have. The majority of "little people" - including me* - work in jobs to either produce products or provide services for other little people. While the elite collect the profits of the sales of these products and services, they profit more from providing financial services to each other.

      5 years ago, we had a politician lamenting that other politicians lacked the guts to let the little people "wither and die" - https://www.upi.com/Top_News/U... . While no politician might be (publicly) saying that now, we have increasing numbers of politicians working to undermine the services that help the little people.

      What happens when the most disadvantage people "wither and die"? Fewer little people are needed to produce products and services for little people. It's a downward spiral for the little people.

      Even though my daughter is very very likely to keep herself useful to the elites, she has decided it would be irresponsible for her to have children of her own.

      ---

      * I work for a company that makes products for the little people. My job title is "Lead Product Development Engineer". (Of course, I am looking for a new job with a company that makes "toys" for the elites.)

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
    5. Re: Betteridge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luxurious bunker market where it's at! ;)

  5. Arc B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch out for dirty telephones...

  6. small independent bookstores? by gtall · · Score: 2

    Okay, Mr. Andresssen, put your money where your mouth has been. Open a small independent bookstore in Backwoods, Wisconsin (pop. 1500). Let's see you make payroll with the proceeds. Don't be shy now, get out there and show us how its done. Hint, get your neighbors to read.

    1. Re:small independent bookstores? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "put your money where your mouth has been"

      I wasn't aware that his mouth moved?? ... What are you trying to say here??

    2. Re:small independent bookstores? by mentil · · Score: 1

      Seems you need to 'read between the lines'.
      His point was that some businesses can't, and don't deserve to, survive in certain situations.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    3. Re: small independent bookstores? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big bookstores are going away too. I used to spend every morning in Borders. Now all that's left is Barnes and Noble and they only carry popular propaganda, not anything I'd read. I had to order "Debunking 9-11 Debunking" by David Ray Griffin online.

    4. Re: small independent bookstores? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol. Good troll.

    5. Re: small independent bookstores? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Debunking 9-11 Debunking" by David Ray Griffin online.

      But think how useless your life is anyway if you're actually reading that crap. Even a romance novel might have been a better way to spend your time.

    6. Re: small independent bookstores? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now he knows the truth, hidden from us sheeple, he can feel superior.

  7. A Modest Proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We only have so many resources to go around. We don't have enough, and shouldn't worry about feeding and caring for the unemployed or unemployable.

    I present a modest proposal as a solution.

    This would allow them to have some use.

  8. Ignorance runs rampant, again by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    You cannot avoid the truth of the normal curve of human intelligence. We are walking up the ladder of job complexity due to technology, leaving behind more and more people incapable of educating themselves up for the jobs of the future. There will indeed be a massive and growing class of the unemployed and the unemployable as programmed machines take over the lower level jobs, many of which are the entry level jobs that start one off in work life. And these people will be left out of the benefits of advancing technology due to the lack of the money necessary to avail themselves of it. A huge percentage of the human population is only suited to lower level manual labor.

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re: Ignorance runs rampant, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then let's suppose that these unemployable people are the majority of the world population, these people will be left out from the productive (and wealthy) portion of the population but they will not magically disappear. What would happen then when these people, that have a good amount of free time and access to a wide range of firearms and blunt weapon, Willem realize that they are going to be left behind with less and less resources? Exactly...

    2. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      We are walking up the ladder of job complexity due to technology, leaving behind more and more people incapable of educating themselves up for the jobs of the future. There will indeed be a massive and growing class of the unemployed and the unemployable as programmed machines take over the lower level jobs, many of which are the entry level jobs that start one off in work life......A huge percentage of the human population is only suited to lower level manual labor.

      Indeed.

      Every time an article like this comes up, a bunch of people show up and say, "There will be jobs we haven't even thought of yet, and those people can be retrained to do them." While I'm a pretty creative person, I struggle to come up with a future unskilled job that won't be done by robots and machine learning better and faster than it could be done by humans. Nobody is going to come up with a new job and not throw AI and robotics at it first. Humans won't even be considered for it, and the tasks won't be designed to be done by a human anyway. All the VC money being thrown out right now is going to startups which promise a revolution doing exactly this.

      The first hologram world guides aren't going to be humans. It's going to be, "Hey Alexa, where's the strip club?" You're not going to give a valet the keys to your flying car. Dive bars and chain restaurants are going to profit immensely from automated service. Sit down, have your eye scanned, and your preferred meal and beverage are delivered to you and billed to you. All while checking out super realistic titties at the hologram world strip club beamed into your eye.

      We are seriously nearing a time where a lot of the stripping, table waiting, cooking, and bartending jobs may be in serious peril. Combine that with what Boston Dynamics is doing, and we've got a lot of people to find jobs for in the near future that don't have the capacity to build skills that can't be replicated by technology.

      I think the gig economy is the canary in the coal mine. We're already seeing a lot of people doing a bunch of random part-time jobs because they can't find reliable full-time jobs. At the moment, it's still cheaper to hire them (and not provide benefits, and thus force society to subsidize them) than it is to invest in automation. This won't be true of any new businesses, however. And it's not necessarily going to remain true, especially if we decide that businesses can't pay their employees so little that they need social welfare services to survive.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    3. Re: Ignorance runs rampant, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had me at super realistic titties

    4. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately that is a fact. However these people will need access to money and meaningful things to do as well or society collapses. An UBI is a small part in that. Countries that are too far behind here will not survive theses changes.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re: Ignorance runs rampant, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So there will be a war, and they will loose it against productive and wealthy portion of population who owns (killer) robots and AI

    6. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by dryeo · · Score: 1

      It may turn out that people prefer real strippers and even real waiters and bartenders. You'll know you're in an expensive restaurant because they have real live waiters etc.
       

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    7. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by ChatHuant · · Score: 1

      It may turn out that people prefer real strippers and even real waiters and bartenders.

      I doubt both of your points. The abundance of anime porn shows lots of folks don't feel real humans are necessary. In fact, I think a strip joint featuring anime characters (a la the Vocaloid shows) could be quite successful. And really, Slashdot still can't handle even a basic accented a?

      As to waiters, they're more of a luxury item - McDonalds and their ilk are doing fine without them. And, at least as far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to a restaurant because of the meaningful interaction I have with waiters. While a good waiter is nice to have, there are enough cases when they're more of a nuisance, and where I'd gladly take a robot instead.

    8. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by dryeo · · Score: 1

      There's all types of people including those whose preferences run more into anime. I still think the majority of men prefer women. I know I'd never pay for anime strippers and have paid to watch women removing their clothes.
      And yes, waiters will be a luxury item, the expensive restaurant will be the only place they're found.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    9. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You cannot avoid the truth of the normal curve of human intelligence.

      You can avoid mentioning it though, if you want to avoid being piled on by the SJWs for being a racist or a eugenicist or a horrid meanie.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:Ignorance runs rampant, again by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      Yes, the political correctness is that all people are the same, and woe to those who point out otherwise.

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
  9. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technology will continue to "eat" jobs and that's a good thing. What's bad is that people who are replaced are thrown out in the street with hardly any safety nets. Retraining is a nice fairy tale but that relies on their being jobs for the people who are retrained and them being able to be retrained in the first place.

    In the old days, the unions softened the blow. For example, when diesel trains came to be, the RR union demanded that the RR companies keep the firemen employed - the same for brakemen when the automatic brakes were invented. Yes, it was a waste from a business and economic point of view but from a social point of view, it prevented some angry mobs; like the Luddites. We think of the Luddites in a negative way here in the USA (thanks to US Chamber of Commerce propaganda from the 1930s) but that is what happens when people are booted from their lively hoods with no options.

    Automation is great as long as the economic benefits are felt by everyone and not just a select few at the top.

    1. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unions didn't soften the blow, they created another class of elites who have to be supported by those lower on the economic ladder.

      The only long term solution to automation taking jobs is to have fewer people who are unable or unwilling to do the jobs that are available - population control.

  10. Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Knowing even with a college education, they may never get a job.

    1. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Funny

      On odd days we see stories about how civilization is going to collapse because robots will steal all the jobs.

      On even days we see stories about how there there won't be enough workers to support the retiring boomers.

      The only thing certain is that civilization is going to end. We just can't agree on the reason.

    2. Re: Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50 years ago it was nuclear winter, and before that it was god's judgement.

    3. Re: Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about the rest of you, but if I could have a robot capable of doing anything I needed, including gathering and preparing all of the food I need, and building me a yacht for free, I don't really think of that as a dystopia.

    4. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by ranton · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On odd days we see stories about how civilization is going to collapse because robots will steal all the jobs. On even days we see stories about how there there won't be enough workers to support the retiring boomers.

      Those two problems aren't that different. Arguably they are the same problem.

      Retiring boomers are a problem because there may not be a large enough tax base to fund social security benefits from individual workers. This is made worse if less young people have jobs. Retiring boomers are also a problem because there will be a larger percentage of our population needing care workers, but that costs money. If that is automated then we still have the low worker problem, if people do it they need to be paid and we still have the funding problem.

      None of these are that catastrophic of a problem, we just need to move more of the taxation burden to those who are benefiting the most from automation instead of from average citizens. Currently there is significant resistance to raising taxes on the rich and big business, but that will either break under the pressure of increased automation and globalization or we will shift further into a plutocratic / feudal society (hopefully the former).

      Even though there are solutions to our problems, we still need to fight vigorously to ensure we choose solutions which are more inclusive. The default result of inaction is simply more concentration of wealth and less equality, which is the natural result of unregulated market forces.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    5. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by ranton · · Score: 2

      Tough for new parents deciding on having kids, knowing even with a college education, they may never get a job.

      Those parents will get little to no comfort from anything Andreessen is saying, considering all of his arguments are really for why the upper middle class and a tiny minority of very ambitious and proactive children will be fine. No one should be worried about how well students who actively seek out education will do in the future. Until robots take 100% of our jobs, those children will mostly be just fine.

      Our society's problems will be how to handle the other 90+% of our population. The ones who used to be able to coast through school, learn to read and do arithmetic, and then work blue collar jobs. They are not going to learn to be scientists from Udemy courses. Those kids are still screwed in the world Andreessen envisions.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    6. Re: Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50 years ago it was nuclear winter...

      To be fair, 50 years ago the threat of that event was considerably more valid than it is today. We were barely removed from a time when we actually used nuclear weapons in a real war, not merely threatened to do so in a cold one.

      ...and before that it was god's judgement.

      Before that? Religion has hung in the background for the last few thousand years. A timeless threat becomes nothing more than background noise when it never comes to fruition.

    7. Re: Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that it would likely slide into some sort of a dystopian nightmare before too long. Humans evolved to be perpetually busy doing something to provide for their needs. Whenever we've had times where people didn't have to do that, those people just created problems. Just look at the current leisure class as a great example. The ones that don't work have far more than what they could possibly spend in several lifetimes, and so they make themselves busy trying to get a high score on net worth.

      At the lower end of the spectrum, you see those that are perpetually unemployed going about causing other types of problems through petty crimes and irresponsible behavior.

      It might sound great to have nothing to do for a short period of time, but eventually, you'll get bored and that never ends well. Best case scenario, would be that you just get incredibly depressed and do nothing as the years go by with nothing in particular to show for it.

    8. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1


      Retiring boomers are a problem because there may not be a large enough tax base to fund social security benefits from individual workers

      This is a basic lie told by the Republican party and passed on for the last 20 years without question. The reality is that if you just extend the payroll tax cutoff for higher income people, you make Social Security solvent for decades to come. It's a basic lie that the problem isn't fixable, it's just the Republican party can't stand that maybe people with already very high incomes might have to pay more.

    9. Re: Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even with robots around there is plenty of creative work to be done (and no need to import stupid sand monkeys from shitty islam).

    10. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing certain is that civilization is going to end. We just can't agree on the reason.

      If I may make a suggestion it appears civilization will end because we have too much shit and almost everyone is happy. Assuming of course robots will just let us go extinct by fucking us to death instead of going full Terminator on our asses.

    11. Re:Tough for new parents deciding on having kids by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      outside of the United States, global income inequality is falling

      Inside the United States, global income inequality is also falling. The United States is part of the globe....

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
  11. Redneckdot? Stuff that goes Durk-urr-durr? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why would anyone *want* that grueling horrible forced experience that we call "jobs"??
    Everybody dreams of relaxing and weekends etc instead!
    What we want, is money! Or, wealth to be more exact!

    But if only there was a way to achieve that, without having to work...!

    No, not employees, Mr. Burns!
    Automation!

    The problem is, that some leeches managed to take most of the income from our work, without adding value or even really working themselves, and now use that money to replace us.
    Which is incredibly stupid, because who's gonna buy those products then? Peope with no money? Or the old debt scheme?

    Nobody I ever asked, had a problem with *him* owning said machines, making them do his work, and still getting paid just like before. While he can choose to relax, or so something of actual worth to him, humanity or this planet.

    But that option is conveniently left out of the "discussion" that the human livestock is fed hot every day.

    1. Re:Redneckdot? Stuff that goes Durk-urr-durr? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      What we want, is money! Or, wealth to be more exact!

      But if only there was a way to achieve that, without having to work...!

      Careful choice of parents can help.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Redneckdot? Stuff that goes Durk-urr-durr? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Productive work is life. That's a normal and value-laden emotion for a Western man ... as opposed to lubricious Semite or Bantu or Oriental. And few Americans are bling-infested parasite gaffots like you ... that think stealing Nike sneaks from storm-ravaged sporting-goods-stores is the highest attainable virtue.

  12. "screw the independent bookstores" $25M Udacity by raymorris · · Score: 1

    What part of "screw the independent bookstores" is unclear?

    He put at least $25 million into Udacity - that's where his mouth is.

  13. Re: "screw the independent bookstores" $25M Udaci by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly, and that is what he is plugging, not Coursera or Xed or the FREE courses on Khan academy.

  14. Nobody wants a job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People want wealth!

    And somehow the option of having the machines create that wealth for *us* instead of our livestock handlers is conveniently omitted

    Also: "Useless lives"... Seriously? Only in America could people think that way. Because enough free time to start getting bored and start really thinking is unheard of, ... and even if, the education of those is lacking too.

    And only there is value defined as how much " the industry" can leech on you.

    In reality, given enough free time, people start doing useful things by themselves!
    Boredom is painful. Curiosity is natural. Needs drive you. Success feels amazing! Duh.

    1. Re: Nobody wants a job! by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      In reality, given enough free time, people start doing useful things by themselves!

      For sure. Just look at the Kardashians.

    2. Re:Nobody wants a job! by olsmeister · · Score: 2

      The machines would not create wealth for *us*. They would create wealth for the owners of the machines. Unless you are willing to abandon the whole private ownership model and move to universal ownership of the machines and division of the proceeds, it won't work the way you think.

    3. Re:Nobody wants a job! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      They would create wealth for the owners of the machines.

      You seem to think that our economy is based on "making stuff". But manufacturing is only 12% of the economy.

      The most valuable companies in the world do no manufacturing.

      If suddenly, machines could make everything we currently make, there would be little change in our economy. The biggest effect would be the fall of the price of manufactured goods relative to services, raising the effective wages of the 80% of people who work in the service economy.

      Replacing service workers with machines is much harder, and is a long way off. It basically would require general-AI, which would so profoundly change our society that worrying about "jobs" is silly.

    4. Re:Nobody wants a job! by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      So all it takes to solve the problem is some wealthy philanthropist to have his or her machines make machines for the people who have none? Are you certain no one with a robot will think to form a commune of sorts?

      If robots can do everything, it’s the previous definitions of wealth that become irrelevant.

    5. Re: Nobody wants a job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Service workers are replaced today with self-service machine all the time. Think travel agent, grocery store cashier clerk, airport check-in agent, bank teller, retail sales person, ...

    6. Re:Nobody wants a job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most valuable companies in the world do no manufacturing.

      Which is why China is so poor and the UK continues to be exceedingly wealthy?

    7. Re: Nobody wants a job! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      People still pay attention to the Kartrashians??

      Do people really have nothing interesting to do with their own life that they have to watch someone else's fake life???

      Western Civilization is fucked. :-/

      --
      The Lie of Christianity: Jesus never sinned.

    8. Re:Nobody wants a job! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I realise you're trying to be sarcastic, but you're correct. In the per-capita GDP rankings, the UK is 25th at $43,620, China is 78th at $16,624 (2017 IMF numbers). The USA is 11th at $59,495.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re: Nobody wants a job! by dryeo · · Score: 1

      America voted in a trust fund reality TV star as President.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    10. Re:Nobody wants a job! by ChatHuant · · Score: 1

      In reality, given enough free time, people start doing useful things by themselves!

      I'm surprised this isn't obvious to everybody. Lots of people don't stop working once they make their first million(s), even though they could retire and spend the rest of their lives on the couch, watching TV. I have colleagues I know for sure are multimillionaires; they're still putting lots of effort in the job, and pushing themselves hard. Heck, even the subject of this post, Andreessen himself could have retired young with the 53 million he got - instead, he kept working and trying to make the world better (at least by his lights).

      IMO this is also a good argument for universal basic income: if people would not be stuck to boring soul-killing jobs by the threat of starvation, they'd be able to try this new thing they've been thinking about but never had the chance to work on. This should unleash a lot of human creativity.

    11. Re:Nobody wants a job! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I realise you're trying to be sarcastic, but you're correct. In the per-capita GDP rankings, the UK is 25th at $43,620, China is 78th at $16,624 (2017 IMF numbers). The USA is 11th at $59,495.

      The east coast cities where the manufacturing is done are not poor. Shanghai and Shenzhen have per capita GDP over $30k, about the level of Italy.

    12. Re: Nobody wants a job! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      LOL. Nice!

    13. Re: Nobody wants a job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it wouldn't, it would lead to most people becoming welfare queens and the few creative people bankrolling them. Fuck off.

  15. Robot, Suit, ... Where's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Everything I have seen, suggests that "management" and "board" are words for rather simple robots without any human-like characteristics. Might as well be Daleks. Very very booring Daleks!

    Oh, and ... just for fun, ... go try and contact a human being at Google. ... ;)

  16. Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Teaching everyone to code is not going to work, as basic hierarchy of competence still applies. There is still finite amount of coding that has to be done, and there still automation of coding tasks that will take place - so with this approach we will be trading unemployed factory workers for unemployed coders.

    The future is bleak unless we can re-invent how society works. There isn't a job for most people. Maybe we can re-invent society, but it appears to me that future for masses will be joblessness.

    1. Re:Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by gweihir · · Score: 1

      To anybody with two brain cells this is obvious. The MBA morons are (as usual) slow on the uptake, but the only coders that have good prospects longer-term are those with talent and good education. This is an _engineering_ job, not something anybody has a chance to be good at. As soon as the statistics of how hugely expensive the average coder is compared to a good coder become generally accepted, there will not be any jobs left for low-skill coders (about 90% of them today). Educating even more people in something they can only ever acquire marginal skills in is pure folly.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Free education doesn't create a world in which everyone has jobs even if everyone takes advantage of the free education. It can't, so long as jobs are created by needs.

      Yes, I know, the religious belief here is that as technology eliminates the amount of effort necessary to fill needs, new needs arise. And obviously, this does happen. But there is zero reason to believe that the new needs will always meet or exceed the amount of old needs eliminated. That belief is just a feel-good idea born entirely out of hope. It isn't the kind of thing that one can prove.

      So, one way or another, our society is going to change as tech eliminates jobs. It has been happening that way for a long time, and it is going to keep happening that way. People who fancy themselves to be forward-thinking social engineering visionaries aren't going to have any impact, because all their "visions" are based on facts about the future which it is impossible to have.

      We just have to watch this play out, and adapt to it as it plays out, and that's it.

      But I will say this: in an economy where there aren't enough jobs for people, we cannot consider the unemployable people to be "worthless." The value of a person is not in their ability to work for other people. Regarding people as nothing more than labor capital will bring terrible strife all-around.

    3. Re:Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by sinij · · Score: 1

      In India almost everyone with a good job has a hired help/servant - nannies, cooks, cleaner. This isn't yet happening in the West (or more accurately - no longer the case) as someone with only a good job cannot afford to pay someone else a service salary.

    4. Re:Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      There is a virtually unlimited amount of available work which could be done, if only we were wealthier and had more people freed up to work on it. We'll never run out.

      Get back to us when the galaxy has been remodeled to suit us and we need to start talking about how we're going to begin arranging the rest of the universe...

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    5. Re: Teaching everyone to code is not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but they literally are worthless if all they do is consume. We don't need them.

  17. Fuck this guy by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    Who gets to determine the "value" of someone? Everyone has value to someone else. Value is subjective and relative.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re: Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Value is absolute, it's just your pitiful life having no value.

    2. Re: Fuck this guy by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Case in point. I'm sure your mommy loved you and you had value to her. However to me your value is less than zero. Therefore value is not absolute. QED.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re: Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you all can just agree to disagree. Now, can you find a way to be less off putting about it?

    4. Re:Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Relative value ... until you starve. Lots of folks find value in a DODGE or HONDA mechanic ... they eat fat cause they help people to drive fast! OTOH only Trotsky-slut gaffots ( 2.1 % ) find value in a spike-hair GENDER-STUDIES grad. Those tranny/Incels eat beans + rice or starve unless unless paid=off by DemoRat vote-herders to roll screaming on a public street. Skinny legs skinny brain. So BOSCO relative value is very very relative itself depending on your sense of self-preservation.

    5. Re:Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who gets to determine the "value" of someone?

      Wow, reading into things much? He never said that at all. Do you think bookstores are people?
      Most of the places I worked at years ago are out of business now. They weren't of value anymore, but I still am, based on what I'm getting paid.
      The history of our species is largely a story of adapting to change, and it's easier than most people think because new people are always coming along while the old die off.

    6. Re:Fuck this guy by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      Who gets to determine the "value" of someone? Everyone has value to someone else. Value is subjective and relative.

      You could be a valued food source to some people.

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    7. Re:Fuck this guy by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Sure. But this isn't moral value. It's economic value. And increasingly, a lot of people aren't economically valuable enough that they can keep themselves housed, fed, healthy, and happy.

      The big question is what do we do for these people? The article suggests that if we just give them access to the internet they can educate themselves into an economically valuable worker, and all our problems will be solved. But it ignores that a) not everyone is capable of educating themselves to the level necessary, and b) even a moderate level of education may not be sufficient in the future to compete with robots, automation, and AI/machine learning.

      I agree that everyone has value. The question is how we ensure their health and happiness if it's not economically viable to have them working to support themselves.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Fuck this guy by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And value can become massively negative. Just look at the value to society of the average CEO or president.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re:Fuck this guy by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      You are correct that value is subjective and relative. The difference between a job and a hobby lies purely in whether someone else will pay you to do it. You only have value TO SOMEONE ELSE if you can do something THEY want.

      Everyone has value to themself (except in cases of severe mental disorder) so that's not really an interesting topic. The question is, are there people who are utterly and entirely incapable of doing anything that is of any value to anyone else ?

      I do community theatre. People buy tickets, so it has value. But the total dollar amount of all tickets sold for all shows in a year is less than what I make working in tech for a year. A lot less. And those shows are not my work alone, they're the work of tens, maybe hundreds or people. So it's a hobby.

      If "the rich" take all "the money" and go off and disconnect entirely from "the poor", will the poor just sit in the dirt, incapable of doing anything that even another poor person wants done? If yes, then they are without value as far as everyone else judges it. But if they can do anything that ANYONE else values, even if that someone else doesn't have "money", then some sort of exchange can be done. And whatever tokens or markers are used, even if it's just handwritten IOUs will for practical purposes become money.

      It's not a problem if the 1% take all "the money" because the 99% can just keep doing things of value. Creation of a new set of tokens to represent value is not a big challenge. The problem is when 90% or maybe even just 80% produce and have everything they could possibly want and then 10% or 20% are incapable of doing ANYTHING that even other people as poor as themselves want done.

    10. Re:Fuck this guy by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Who gets to determine the "value" of someone? Everyone has value to someone else. Value is subjective and relative.

      If you pick a point to stand on, you can determine value from that standpoint. For example, economic output, which is what we're looking at here. Most jobless people have negative economic value. Just by existing, they often manage to get in the way of those attempting to produce economic output.

      Right now those people could be given economic value by giving them jobs.

      To me this suggests two major topics of conversation. One is, how do we continue to give people economic value after there is no work left for them to do because automation has taken all the jobs they're capable of doing. The other is how do we move past capitalism so that people's value doesn't have to be based on economic output?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answer ... you cannot. So ENCOURAGE the value-less to die off childless as quickly and humanly as possible. Do not import the wettbak and nibber and slant like mangoes or exotic poisonous snakes. And gawdsakes butcher-out the DemoRat Trotsky-sluts who pander to their dependency & inability.

    12. Re:Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are the bronze-age bow-maker or arrow fletcher or char-coal maker or forgeman or skin-scrapper and tanner or brewer or sheep-herd or farmer .... you have economic value to your tribe/city-state ... no issue of "capitalism" exists though value is traded in all dimensions. Humans have multiplied successful effort since ... forever. Some (few) wealthy familes always lived next to the (many) who labor. Imagine the engineers & artists of Gobeki-Tepi! This part of economics only a Stalinist poverty-stricken anthill society can avoid. Any other society will reflect the fact that some labor is 20x more effective than others in generating product, even if that labor is non-physical organization of others.

    13. Re:Fuck this guy by ChatHuant · · Score: 1

      Who gets to determine the "value" of someone?

      Lots of people do. The DOT, for example. They think the value of an American's life is a bit under 10 million.

      And, before you get the pitchforks out, this is actually pretty good - in Russia, for example, public opinion polls put the value a human life to ~$71500.

  18. Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by resistant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I suspect that the old practice of wealthy families employing full-time household servants will make a significant comeback over the next couple of decades, when legions of low-skill but able-bodied people find themselves irresistibly replaced by software and robotics. Sure, there'll be crying and grumbling over having to take jobs that many folks today consider to be beneath them, but personal servants for the rich were the norm for much of human history after the rise of agriculture and cities. Social expectations shifted during the Industrial Revolution and will shift again with the Robotics Revolution.

    It also seems likely that that skillfully created handmade items such as fine furniture will see wider adoption among the upper crust as their wealth relentlessly increases, leading to steady employment for craftsmen in hundreds of thousands of small boutique shops. This is a historical norm as well although the scale will be larger. The rapidly advancing state of the art in low-cost but capable computer-controlled home milling machines and 3D printers obviously will help fuel this trend. In a side note, I suppose that using automated tools kind of blurs the definition of "handmade," but c'est la vie.

    Likewise, personal services should see a continuing rise in popularity -- in-home pedicures, manicures, massages, and haircuts as well as expert home cooking by visiting chefs and so forth. In particular, cooking well is a wildly popular skill, and most otherwise low-skilled folks undoubtedly could pick up the knack if motivated. Really, this all happening already, but the pace should pick up quite a bit once robot-driven mass unemployment becomes a thing. Technology leads to fun possibilities -- for example, it's easy to visualize a lumbering beast of a food truck that hosts expert chefs who prepare custom orders for delivery within a limited service area around the truck by small, speedy delivery robots. Needless to say, said food truck bristles with touch screens that display a steady stream of orders from cellphone apps that also provide continuously updated GPS coordinates for the delivery robots. "Hey, Bob -- looks like your Maine lobster with lemon butter is here. I see the food truck bot coming from that corner."

    The basic idea is that wealth always, always seeks avenues for spending. Few people indeed gather paper riches merely for the sake of giggling behind closed curtains over their bank balances. Admittedly, a lopsided distribution of wealth will kind of suck for those at the bottom, but outside of the true unfortunates who live on the streets, the bottom class will still be richer than kings were a thousand years ago. Who among us in the developed world doesn't have a cellphone, a color television, and access to enough cheap food to grow mightily into a fat boy or "woman of considerable girth"? Moreover, depending on political winds, a future United States might indeed see a universal basic income that very effectively persuades the have-littles from ever seriously contemplating revolution. I don't imagine the upper-crust types will squawk too much about the huge cost of such social bribery as long as they can keep tootling around in their auto-piloted Rolls-Royces and sipping their top-shelf boutique wines with Beluga caviar while smiling servants buff their toenails. That's the beauty of the increasingly automated production of wealth -- buying off the peasants becomes more and more affordable for the have-alls, and unlike ancient Rome, there aren't any Visigoths hammering on the gates.

    --
    A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
    1. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect that the old practice of wealthy families employing full-time household servants will make a significant comeback over the next couple of decades

      I suspect you're wrong, and possibly misunderstand what life was like pre-1900 or so. Life back then was very labor intensive, as nobody had a refrigerator or an oven that could be started at the push of a button, or a furnace/AC keeping the temperature comfortable. Think back to what a typical household was like and it's understandable why you'd want more people running around your house and out in the yard performing all those labor intensive tasks. That wood your servant piled up in the fireplace and lit on fire wasn't going to chop itself you know.

      Almost none of those things are an issue today. You'll pay the people that install and maintain your complex appliances in your house, or pay someone to come in and paint or redecorate. Having a maid come in once a week to clean everything up is sufficient. I don't want her living there, unless she's providing some other... services.

    2. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the old practice of wealthy families employing full-time household servants will make a significant comeback over the next couple of decades, when legions of low-skill but able-bodied people find themselves irresistibly replaced by software and robotics.

      I thought this as well at one point, but then I realized that robotics are going to fill this niche. Sure, some people will want a human touch, but a lot will just want the Roomba 2035 to do it's job without judging as they sit around playing with their junk.

      While we don't have an automated laundry and dryer system yet, once that's done we'll have automated a lot of the household chores. Automated lawn mowers are becoming more viable, automated floor sweepers have been around for a decade now, dishwashers and microwaves for 30+ years, Nest and the like mean you don't even pay attention to your thermostat anymore, etc., etc. A friend has a Shiatsu massage chair. Probably not as good as a real Shiatsu massage, but available with the flip of a switch 24 hrs a day.

      Unskilled labor is barely viable with our current technology. I don't see it becoming more viable as time goes on, only less. Sure, some may want to pay for humans to do a job worse for more money for some sort of status or ego boost, but I don't foresee enough people wanting to to offset all the jobs lost.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    3. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the old practice of wealthy families employing full-time household servants will make a significant comeback

      I suspect that household chores and cleaning will be automated. It is an enormous market, and there are already plenty of people working on it.

    4. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Few people indeed gather paper riches merely for the sake of giggling behind closed curtains over their bank balances.

      I'm one of the few. Thanks for the acknowledgement.

    5. Re: Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like cooking my meals!
      Nothin' beats home cookin', amirite?

    6. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      And if all those things become commonplace, then the rich won't want them. Once you have everything you could possibly dream of, you start dreaming of more.

      Whether that's going historical with dozens of household servants at each of your many estates, or futuristic with employing researchers and engineers to create newer and more exotic technologies that the commoners can't afford, one way or another the ultra rich will seek ways to distinguish themselves from the merely affluent.

      And if those things don't become commonplace, if they remain the domain of the ultra rich, then that leaves lots of room for the merely well-to-do to employ human household staff.

      If the poorest of the poor has a dishwasher, clotheswasher, roomba, etc, then are they really poor? And if they don't, then there's room for an economy where the really poor provide services to the somewhat poor, who provide services to the not-really-poor-but-not-really-rich-either.

      By all means, fight against theft and deceit with all your strength. But don't get worked up over the fact that there exist people who take for granted more than you'll ever have. That has been the case for many thousands of years and it's not going to ever stop being the case.

      If "the rich" totally decouple from the "the poor" then there will simply be two decoupled economic systems. It's certainly possible that a police state government could oppress the poor and obstruct them from conducting economic transactions among themselves, but that's a reason for political activism to fight against oppressive govenment, not an justification for abandoning property rights.

    7. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

      Few people indeed gather paper riches merely for the sake of giggling behind closed curtains over their bank balances.

      Given how much more money the elites have compared to the costs of even the most opulent lifestyle, this is what the elites are doing. Sure, they have obscenely expensive toys to show off, but the vast majority of their wealth is just bank balances.

      buying off the peasants becomes more and more affordable for the have-alls

      While true, an increasing number of the elites are becoming more and more resentful of providing for the "peasants."

      And the elites have been successful in making the police, who are also peasants, afraid of the rest of the peasants. It's increasingly more likely the peasants will kill each other.

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
    8. Re:Return of the Servants and Craftsmen by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the old practice of wealthy families employing full-time household servants will make a significant comeback over the next couple of decades,

      Unluckily, it was often a very abusive relationship and might come back for that reason, some people love to abuse others.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  19. Udacity is Comically Bad by dcollins · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The fact that this whole story culminates in the punchline, "The answer is Udacity!" is kind of a sick joke. Udacity, from what I've seen of it, is comically awful. Sebastian Thrun seems to be mostly a carnival shyster from what I can tell. Their original premise was to offer a full college education (and "disrupt", run existing colleges out of existence), and they've long since retreated from that goal. Their attempt at solving the remedial-math problem was an epic disaster (link). I haven't really heard anyone hype Udacity in a few years now.

    Review of Thrun's Udacity statistics course, from a statistics professor (me), on my blog:http://www.madmath.com/2012/09/udacity-statistics-101.html

    Previously featured on Slashdot: https://news.slashdot.org/story/12/09/10/129231/the-problems-with-online-math-classes

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re: Udacity is Comically Bad by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, are you opposed to all online math courses, or just those specific ones? I've been wanting to take some courses to brush up on my math skills, but have neither the time nor the interest to attend actual lectures.

    2. Re:Udacity is Comically Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just Udacity. There's a whole cottage industry now that pitches worthless "training" and useless "degrees" to the masses of people who never attended a proper university. It's an ingenious fraud really, since many people will borrow freely to pay for education long before they realize that what they have bought is useless and are left holding the bag with student loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Perfect.

    3. Re:Udacity is Comically Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the same experience with Thrun's course! I gave up after being given quiz questions which were not covered in the material. The condescending “Don't get disturbed if you don't know the answer” was too much to tolerate.

    4. Re:Udacity is Comically Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a college professor. Online courses as a whole generally only work for really motivated students with the proper academic background. In practice, this is only a very small subset of students.

      As a way to lower failure rates, I've generally seen the online versions of courses made easier with more "fluff" grades like discussion boards.

    5. Re: Udacity is Comically Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read a book.

  20. Correct. Fatcats descended from royalty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you look back, the first fatcats all were royals or former royals who took the money of their family, their old boys club and the banks, to buy factories and hire people.
    I don't know if that left them in debt or not. But I guess that's where shareholding comes from too.

    I guess the crime that enables it all, is that it is legal to take sums of money not related to the amount of work you give. Aka "stealing". Or "profit".

    1. Re: Correct. Fatcats descended from royalty. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      That's why the glorious Democratic People's Republic of Korea has outlawed profit, and given its people heaven on earth. Long live the Dear Leader!

    2. Re:Correct. Fatcats descended from royalty. by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      You don't think people who put up millions or billions of dollars of their own money to fund the startup capital requirements of a company deserve to be compensated for risking that money? That you should just measure how many hours a week a person spends performing labor and all profits split accordingly? You would not have any companies if you did that, because nobody would be willing to risk the money to start one, when you can go work at an existing company risk-free.

    3. Re:Correct. Fatcats descended from royalty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the crime that enables it all, is that it is legal to take sums of money not related to the amount of work you give.

      The crime is the thing that is legal.

      You may actually be retarded, you know that?

    4. Re: Correct. Fatcats descended from royalty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anarchocapitalism...Totalitarian Communism...nope, nothing in between those two.

  21. Why wouldn't I want my job gone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as we have a universal basic income.

    Creating busy work just for work's sake makes stuff more expensive for everyone. For instance, it seems everyone in the younger generation in Germany want to become a bureacrat, not because it's their dream, but for job stability and protection. Does that sound like a productive future as a society for anyone?

    1. Re:Why wouldn't I want my job gone? by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Well, doing work that is worthless is pretty soul-destroying if you are smart enough to see that. As to bureaucrats, every one of those you send home at full wagers is a huge gain in efficiency. These people destroy, nothing else.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re: Why wouldn't I want my job gone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gibs! More gibs for lazy little shits who deserve castration or better!

  22. What is this nonsense? by gweihir · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There is no magic recipes and no powerful people that can do _anything_ effective here. The jobs are going away because machines are getting cheaper at it than humans and the results are better. There is no way to turn back that wheel without a collapse of civilization. (To be fair, the human race is hard at work to arrange for that...) These jobs go away because even an average capable person is astonishingly incompetent and mostly unable to learn. All the things you see in progress and actual productivity come from a tiny faction of the human race, maybe 20% or so. (This is mostly the number of STEM graduates. Some manual laborers will continue to be needed as well, usually at the high end, like welders, and the low end, like cleaners.) The rest are just administrators, distributors, sellers, self-promoters, etc. The thing is that the search for ever larger profits does expose that. And hence the jobs vanish.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re: What is this nonsense? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Eh. All your STEM beta pluses are useless without creative thinkers and social scientists to tell them what to do with their skills.

  23. Unemployable but useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can be the useful idiots feeding off the government teet who vote the way pop culture stars and charismatic, corrupt politicians tell them to vote.

  24. lower the full time mark start at 32 hours also he by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    lower the full time mark start at 32 hours also healthcare for all.

  25. Adapt to it... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adapt to it: I've said this before - you're "geeks", right? You're MORE than prepared to do so in robotics @ least - PC/Server w/ servo motors (that'd odds are, you'd replace as needed, not try to "repair" them) pretty much.

    * I don't know IF all this "tech/robotics" stuff is for the good but most of ALL of you here can ADAPT as repair techs, coders, etc. - et al for that much of it.

    (It's a "YES/NO" w/ many facets to it)

    APK

    P.S.=> I'm wary of such changes!

    1st, economically speaking as we currently structure it: It reduces taxpayers & reduces men to potatos, perhaps not in ALL cases, but I'd wager it would in most - like WELFARE does!

    (Since, imo, a man needs some 'strife' OR responsiblities that weigh on him (belongings/family) unfortunately to bring out the BEST in us - ala "when things are @ their worst, be your best" - necessity is the mother of invention)

    2nd/On another front (war): It can be MISUSED (e.g. war robots - they will NOT disobey orders, have no mercy &/or reasoning shooting a CHILD as a kid's just another infra-red targetted object, nothing more & THAT takes away human judiciousness decision making).

    I.E./E.G. - Picture a BOSTON ROBOTICS "MULE" w/ Vulkan cannons attached, you get my point... apk

  26. Iâ(TM)m confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should I be more concerned about robots taking our jobs or immigrants?

  27. Sounds like an arrogant piece of shit by Joviex · · Score: 1

    Pound sand because where he grew up bookstores didnt operate? Talk about an ignorant, selfish fuck.

    Why do most humans insist on following other humans just because of past progress?

    There is zero anything guaranteeing you anything -- stop looking to others to make your choices.

    Wake the fuck up.

    1. Re:Sounds like an arrogant piece of shit by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Pound sand because where he grew up bookstores didnt operate? Talk about an ignorant, selfish fuck.

      It's not the most polite way to make his point, but it's still a valid point. Independent bookstores only ever served a small percentage of the population. Most people got most of their text media from other sources. Early on it was because they didn't read, and someone was reading them the news. Later on it was because independent bookstores were small, and because libraries existed. Now it's because they're small and vanishing, and because Amazon exists. They also don't solve the book sales problem as well as Amazon does. They can't compete with Amazon's selection. They should go away, and be replaced by something better, now that something better is here. And we should have a safety net so that their owners and employees don't become homeless when it happens.

      Nostalgia shouldn't hold back progress, but progress shouldn't be permitted to roll right over people, either. Progress is supposed to benefit the people, otherwise we're just slaves — either to an upper class, or worse, to an idea.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  28. can he also stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eating dicks

  29. Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by geekmux · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In the past, we've told the out-of-work buggy whip maker to go get an education, and learn a new trade to avoid becoming a member of the "useless class".

    AI is targeting the educated mind, so Andreessen's recommendation is to go get an education??

    Andreessen is an ignorant idiot. He also fails to grasp the fact that we already have a "unemployable" class in society (unless you feel infants and the retired elderly somehow aren't). The problem is NOT having an unemployable class. The problem is finding proper ways to support that inevitability, while also not succumbing to the desires of the employable who are simply fucking lazy.

    Eventually, humans will be a useless class when it comes to productivity. All of them. Learn to accept that fact, and build the new society appropriately instead of regurgitating the same old "education" line that won't work going forward.

    1. Re:Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " ... while also not succumbing to the desires of the employable who are simply fucking lazy."

      At some point, the moral hazard argument ceases to have any real weight. In a scenario where there are far fewer jobs available than there are people who want to do them, "forcing the lazy bums to work" would be counterproductive. Unless of course the idea is that everyone is secretly a lazy bum, such that if we let a few of them get away with it everyone else will flee the workforce in droves. But I doubt that would happen.

    2. Re:Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by geekmux · · Score: 2

      " ... while also not succumbing to the desires of the employable who are simply fucking lazy."

      At some point, the moral hazard argument ceases to have any real weight. In a scenario where there are far fewer jobs available than there are people who want to do them, "forcing the lazy bums to work" would be counterproductive. Unless of course the idea is that everyone is secretly a lazy bum, such that if we let a few of them get away with it everyone else will flee the workforce in droves. But I doubt that would happen.

      The trick is to adopt a human-free workplace (which is inevitable) while also not killing a few billion humans doing it.

      Don't know how the human race is going to get there, but we have to cure ourselves from the disease of Greed first. Otherwise, it will never happen.

    3. Re:Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      AI is targeting the educated mind, so Andreessen's recommendation is to go get an education??

      You sound as if there's thing thing called "the educated mind" as if it's a single point. It's not, and never has been. Education is both a spectrum and a mass of diversity. AI is also a tool, not simply a replacement human. What makes you think AI isn't going to supplement human intelligence rather than just replace it?

      The reality is that this has been happening for hundreds of years. It's not as if we just invented education in the last 50 years. Automation has been replacing jobs ever since we invented automation. If you think AI is just going to replace all jobs, you're really misunderstanding AI.

    4. Re:Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES! No human being is "useless". This term, "useless class" because capitalism value only that which can be exploit. Make robot support two human beings and free them of the drudgery of work forever!

    5. Re: Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with that? Don't we have an overpopulation problem? Weren't most of the people flooding our countries doing jobs "no one wanted to do" and thus their loss not a problem?

    6. Re:Andreessen is a fucking idiot. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      AI is targeting the educated mind, so Andreessen's recommendation is to go get an education?? You sound as if there's thing thing called "the educated mind" as if it's a single point. It's not, and never has been. Education is both a spectrum and a mass of diversity. AI is also a tool, not simply a replacement human. What makes you think AI isn't going to supplement human intelligence rather than just replace it?

      One of the primary drivers behind automation is efficiency, but let's be honest about what that actually means; profits.

      AI might be used to supplement human intelligence for some fields, but in the vast majority of them, automation and AI is being driven by the profit motive, so the end goal IS to replace the human, not supplement them.

      And to be quite honest, the average educated mind is far more replaceable than you think. We keep talking about achieving "true" AI when all it will take is "good enough" AI to replace a lot of human-driven employment. A kiosk is all it takes to replace a cashier now, and that's hardly AI. Cashiers make up a large portion of the workforce, and certainly represent one of those key "stepping stone" professions that often funds the educated mind. Target human drivers next (which we are), and you're talking about another significant impact for employment.

      If society is going to remove the stepping stones to success, they better be ready to accept the consequences and impact of mass unemployment.

      The reality is that this has been happening for hundreds of years. It's not as if we just invented education in the last 50 years. Automation has been replacing jobs ever since we invented automation. If you think AI is just going to replace all jobs, you're really misunderstanding AI.

      We are far more prone to underestimating future technology than "misunderstanding" it. 100 years ago we humans were barely getting ourselves off the ground with airplanes, and there wasn't a single human alive in 1919 that could have predicted a moon landing in 1969 or anything close to that capacity. I hope that gives you an idea of just how bad we humans can underestimate and not even remotely grasp what future technology is truly capable of, so don't continue making that mistake with AI.

  30. "Our destination is the TALOS stargroup" apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Our destination is the TALOS stargroup. Our timewarp factor 7" from the StarTrek TOS pilot "The Cage" when VINA says:

    "They found, it's a TRAP! Like a narcotic - because when DREAMS become more important than reality, you give up travel/building/creating. You even forget how to repair the machines left behind by your ancestors... you just sit, living/reliving others lives left behind, in the 'thought records'"

    * Makes my point for me in part IF you think about it!

    APK

    P.S.=> Additionally - what I DO KNOW, is that the human body (& MIND) is BUILT TO DO WORK & it gets stronger when it does on ALL fronts noted - take that away? ATROPHE - See above: Illustrates it better than I can... apk

  31. Wrong way to look at things by RalphSlate · · Score: 2

    Hang on a minute. Rewind. Look at the basic premise here, and realize how there is a poisonous precept in place.

    If technology can eat all our jobs, than this means that we should be free. It should be like Star Trek, where we don't have to worry about people cleaning our toilets or doing our laundry, and subsequently don't need to worry about how to the rent or the car.

    If technology can eliminate most workers, then we need to ensure that everyone gets to share that prosperity, and not that those who are making it happen get to rule over the rest of us.

  32. We already had the answer in 1966 by boulat · · Score: 2

    It was well-documented and envisioned in Star Trek - money is no longer a thing, and people spend time leveling themselves up.

    1. Re: We already had the answer in 1966 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile in real life, people just sit around mooching and popping out kids that the few people doing productive work will be expected to support. Society collapses. We tried this before.

  33. Unfair competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unprofitable companies held up by central banking largess is what the real issue here is. Cab drivers aren't going away because of technology, they're going away because one or more companies can undercut the true value of labor in an attempt to gain a monopoly or duopoly at a scale unthinkable just a decade ago. Not all unicorns or tech companies fall into this category, but enough do that it's distorting the entire market and causing chaos.

    Those dollars are also flowing into cloud services and advertising. When the money stops flowing, it's going to cause a cascading crash or downturn.

  34. Your idiocy is absolute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because like light speed, it already reached the cosmic limit.

  35. Andreessen can help the world by going away foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We've all had more than enough of him.

  36. It's not their money! It's stolen money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No skill in the world is worth so much, that a human can make billions in his lifetime!

    That money is simply *stolen*!
    They have a word for the part of the income that is stolen: *Profit*.

    I'm not gonna work N hours for N Dollars that the payer never worked for himself!

    1. Re:It's not their money! It's stolen money! by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      People risk capital, some lose it, others get rewarded nicely. It's kind of like poker. There are winners and there are losers. People don't sit down at a table with N players and split each pot N ways. If it were like that, the rake (taxes) that the house (government) takes would eventually eat up all the money, leaving everyone with nothing.

  37. So ... Individual thought == retarded? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes. Retarded. Because "crime" can only ever be, what is written into laws. Even if they were written by criminals to legitimize their crimes.
    Never can anyone call harm crime, regardless of what their owners said is a crime! That would be individual thought! The most disgusting act a human can conmit. He should stay a passive-thinker! An undividual! Causr everything else would be fucking *retarded*, wouldn't it??

    Protip wise guy: Yes, I am saying profit is legalized crime.
    Is that too much for you to handle?

  38. the very hairs of your head are all numbered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion(operation of wandering)(planet) so that they will believe the lie.

    Mystery Red of the Great American Eclipse
    It has blood on it!
    ABCNews: Eclipse makes pendulum wander
    Losing my religion
    Sun researchers find strange eclipse reading

  39. No, it's not in his view of the universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 'our jobs' in the title question are the jobs for average folks. The 'our jobs' Marc seems focused on are the jobs for a world where all the children are above average.

    Marc seems focused on building extremely successful technology companies with exceptional ideas, timing, grit, and folks. A company that is just sustainable is a Zombie and a thing to be avoided. Folks that are mediocre (average?) are to be avoided. This can lead to useful amazing things, but it also ignores or leaves behind what has been the major force in our economy, that is, stable small business built of normal folks.

    The industrial revolution and especially Henry Ford made it possible for a job to mean a good life for average folks who just want to put in their 8 hours with little thought to how their job fits into being a useful (competitive?) business. Before this, finding one's place in the world required much more self reliance.

    Entitlement is a simple human concept. If one becomes accustomed to having something, then one feels entitled to it. Consider water rights. If one has been using a stream for generations, then he has a right to continue to use it even though this means newcomers can't. For jobs, if a person has been able to make a good living installing fenders on a car assembly line, then it is normal for him to feel entitled to continue this. Politics and social discourse follow this idea of entitlement to a good life through a provided job even as that stream still flows due to nature, but economics and globalization say otherwise for the fender job.

    Technology is a common scapegoat when considering the dilemma of job entitlement versus economics. The technology that took jobs by using robots in the fender job has another side. It also makes it possible to buy nice cars at a much lower price. Technology plus globalization make Walmart possible, but it also lowers the odds that someone will have a job to make the money to spend there. If you are at a quandary as to if Walmart is good or bad, then consider Amazon. With technology, the stakes are higher with the Internet. I think things are much better, because many things are now possible for an average person that were unthinkable 20 years ago.

    If the fender man has self reliance, then in theory he can adapt and the technology is painful, but still good. Adversity makes one self reliant. A lifetime of installing fenders with a provided job, does not seem likely to make one self reliant. Humans are incredibly adaptable if put in the right situation. To have a stable society we want to live in, we need to figure out how to take advantage of this adaptability.

    Technology development is driven by 'use cases' You think of how the gadget might be used and think through what it has to do to make that use work, then make it so. Humanity is built with a wide variety of folks. PC tells us rightly that it is impossible to accurately characterize these into groups. But I wonder if in thinking how something might impact society, one could gain some insight by breaking the folks into 'use cases'. If so, what would thy be.

    From outside, it appears Silicon Valley focuses on 2. The Marc's above average folks making the technology and the eyeballs they sell.

    What about the fender guy. Both if he still has self reliance and not.
    What about the folks created in a multi-generational welfare society.
    Same question, except for a prison society.

    Using technology to build a stable society we wish to live in is hard.

  40. Spreading more FUD by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    That's all this is. Myopic history-forgetters spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Hell, I'm one of those people who see what could go wrong, and *I* am saying this, what does that tell you? Will things potentially suck for some people for a while? Probably. Will it destroy humanity? LOL, no. Everyone needs to calm down and take a breath.

  41. Manufacturing by sjbe · · Score: 1

    You seem to think that our economy is based on "making stuff". But manufacturing is only 12% of the economy.

    12% of the US economy. That is not true globally.

    The most valuable companies in the world do no manufacturing.

    Want to bet on that? Of the 10 largest companies in the world by revenue, the only one in the top ten that arguably isn't a manufacturer is Walmart and their business is almost exclusively selling manufactured goods made by other companies. Yes oil and gas is wildly valuable and processing fossil fuels IS manufacturing.

    If you are measuring by market cap you still have lots of companies that make some/most of their revenue via manufacturing. The top ten there includes Berkshire Hathaway, Johnson and Johnson, Apple, Amazon and Alibaba who all either make stuff themselves or sell manufactured goods made by others.

    You'll hear the meme that the US doesn't manufacture anymore which is simply not true at all. The US manufacturing sector is worth about $3 Trillion annually which by itself would one of the top 7 economies in the world.

    If suddenly, machines could make everything we currently make, there would be little change in our economy.

    Machines CAN make much of it. What they cannot do is make it economically. The limitations on automation are not primarily physical. They are economic. Automation carries large up front costs which require substantial production volume and/or value to recoup. There are and will remain no lack of labor intensive products where it makes no economic sense to automate. Nobody is going to buy a machine that costs more to operate than it does to hire a person.

  42. We've had transitions before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My grandmother on my fathers side grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, and I don't know that she ever held a job. She brothers were all largely a bunch of dumb swedes that grew up in the country without even a high school education.

    The next generation of the family all either went to college and got good jobs, started businesses, or both. They weren't the dumb-swede types of the previous generation. Now, part of this was helped because my fathers father had a good job, and his father was smart enough to have actually patented something in 1917. So the other side of the family helped raise up my fathers mother out of poverty.

    The larger picture is of course the western world adapting to a largely agrarian society in the 1800s to an industrial society in the 1900s. Automation and machinery made farms MUCH larger, and you couldn't get by as a dumb swede anymore without. Automation replacing jobs isn't new, it's been going on for literally 200 years.

    It DOES mean change however, and investing in the future. We need to make education, both college and various trades free or cheap. The days of getting a HS education and working in a factory for 40 years are over, just like the days of most of the population practicing subsistence farming were over 100 years ago.

  43. "Homo Deus" versus "Idiocracy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Even if higher intelligence isn't genetic (and there are almost certainly genetic components), it is memetic. Children raised in curious, information-seeking, question-pondering experimental households are going to grow up into more new-economy-awesome adults.

    And?

    And, something like 15% of the eternal-60-hour-week employees of a place like Apple, Google or Amazon South Lake Union are parents. Reasonable to say that most big tech employees will die childless. A kid is the quickest way to sink your new-economy career. Meanwhile the majority of US births for the last decade have been paid for by Medicaid. The majority (!) of K-12 students qualify for free-or-reduced lunches because they're growing up in or nearly in poverty. The *only* way to make that model work over any length of time at all is to try and be Singapore and constantly import the world's smart people (and then economically discourage them from reproducing). That doesn't scale very far.

  44. Re: lower the full time mark start at 32 hours als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck off you commie!!!!

  45. Self Taught BASIC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suspect he learnt it from a book, you know. I doubt he spent a few months typing random words in and working out the syntax from the error messages.

  46. Has Andreeson ever hired a Udacity grad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These rich guys who push "learn to code" seem to only actually hire people with masters degrees from Stanford, but think OTHER should hire bootcamp grads...yeah, okaaay.

  47. The Madness of King George by epine · · Score: 1

    Note: this is the correct thread for the same comment moments ago mistakenly cross-posted at Revisiting the Jobs Artificial Intelligence Will Create with two tiny revisions.

    I don't usually play the Jurassic card, but I was there in the late nineties when George Gilder whipped the telecosm into leaping headlong into a giant bluff of Gillette Foamy.

    Is Gillette Foamy thick and rich enough to stop this speeding sports car?

    [Stock car smashes through giant pile of foamy.]

    No. But it's still thick and rich enough for a great shave.

    [Man inverts hand with a lump of fresh Foamy that stays in place.]

    Question left unanswered: what are you lavishing below the elbow which requires an underhand application? It's almost as if Gillette thought to themselves: screw the magnetic screwdriver—we'll invent the magnetic screw head instead.

    [*] Note: this is the seventies, man. Any hint of metrosexual grooming (outside of San Francisco) was a standing invitation to the hombre prom, out behind The Oak and Dagger, at closing time. The proposed use is not for visible grooming.

    Is Gillette Foamy thick and rich enough to support this beautiful women?

    [Beautiful woman lowered on a trapeze bar onto a giant mound, undulating receptively on a swanky swimming pool, sinks without a trace.]

    No. But it's still thick and rich enough for a great shave.

    [Man inverts hand with a lump of fresh Foamy that stays in place.]

    Question answered all too well: why are they lowering this scantily clad woman into your manly foam product?

    Tom Chanter manages in this piece to revive some of the old Gilder magic. "I was there, Gandalf." Deep down, Gilder was barely left of the Taliban, but he a definite knack for massaging the adrenal glands of the unwashed masses to plummy plumes of imminent mass technogasm.

    The Madness of King George — July 2002

    George Gilder listened to the technology, and became guru of the telecosm. The markets listened to his newsletter, and followed him into the Global Crossing abyss, yet he's never stopped believing.

    The predictions Gilder has made in the intervening decade suggest that he vowed to never again permit anyone else to convey a vision of the world more exuberant than his own. :...
    In 1996 he foresaw that, because of broadband's potential to deliver online learning, within five years "the most deprived ghetto child in the most benighted project will gain educational opportunities exceeding those of today's suburban preppy."

    It was a preposterous assertion, and hardly the only one that seems absurd in the harsh fluorescent light of the morning.

  48. Only The Ex Slave Owning Class Speaks like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "people devoid of any economic, political or even artistic value"

    WTF?

    There are no classes in America. The president, the dog catcher and even Marc Anderson are one and the same.

    You are not a god Marc Anderson, not even special.

    Can the arrogant talk, and can the fake concern about the "poor". If you want to do "social good", take on your own class, Hillary Clinton, Justin Trudeau, Monsanto, Bronfrman, the pdeophile guy with his own island. Police your own "class". Expose some "open secrets" in Hollywood, New York, DC, London, Saudi Arabia. That takes balls.

    Not sure that 53 million puts you in any "class" though. That is pretty rinky dink.

    You are a sick man if you only measure people by their "economic value". I hope god, or jesus or allah or budha or your higher power or perhaps you wife awakens you and shines a light on your arrogance, hubris ---- and you fallibility and mortality.

    Marc, you're a programmer. Hardly qualified to comment on deep structure social issue.

    Marc, eff off. You are a nothing.

  49. Nope by Shaitan · · Score: 1

    "Virtually anyone on the planet with an internet connection and a commitment to self-empowerment through learning can come to Udacity, master a suite of job-ready skills, and pursue rewarding employment."

    Sure but they can't actually receive that employment. Companies are still obsessed with degrees and even where they will hire people without the overpriced, slow, and poor education they treat them like second class citizens if they don't have a decade or better experience.

    Places hiring with multiple years of experience per year education you have it backward. 4 years of education is almost up to par with a year of experience but in truth there are some aspects which simply can't be replaced by any amount of education.

  50. article is sloppy by epine · · Score: 1

    I've always believed in Postel's robustness principle: be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept. For this reason, I'm harder on myself than I am on other people in fiddly matters orthographic.

    But this is not a good venue to misspell both Andreessen and Horowitz, once each.

    First:

    But Andreessen and Horrowitz were known as super angels.

    Second:

    What a world that would be," particularly as "technological progress is precisely what makes a strong, rigorous social safety net affordable," tweeted Andreesen.

    In his defense, he did get "Andreessen" right in 53 other instances, and it all honesty, if any modern software (including Firebox) had half a spell-checking clue, your helpful software agent might have inquired: did you really mean to spell "Andreessen" differently one time out of fifty four? So I guess he only has Andreessen, himself, to blame, after all.

    Also, for the nit-picky record, "Luddite" remains a proper noun.

    1. Re:article is sloppy by epine · · Score: 1

      Also, for the nit-picky record, "Luddite" remains a proper noun: it hearkens back to a tribal rift, and bears no kinship with clingy dripstone stalactite.

      Somehow it appears I fat-fingered ^Z en route to the "submit" button, and castrated my last amendment of clever verbiage (not even Lazarus had captured the goods, and I had to key it again from memory).

      For some reason, I'm especially clumsy today:
      * accidentally cross-posted a large post into the wrong future of work woe, woe, woe tab
      * dropped a plastic spice-bottle cap onto a thin layer of hot oil — a carefully judged bullet-snatch saved both lid and oil
      * fat-fingering ^Z just now

      Don't recall doing either of the first two at any point in the last decade, and the third maybe happens to me once per year.

  51. Smart people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smart people get rid of things that serve no purpose.

  52. that makes both A15z and A17z by epine · · Score: 1

    Sometimes I maybe trust the Slashdot eggheads to fill in the blanks more than I ought to.

    If you were paying full attention, you would have noticed that by managing to misspell Andreessen as "Andreesen" and "Horowitz" as "Horrowitz" he effectively fudged A16z into both A15z and A17z (not to mention a crypto A16z, because sometimes two wrongs do make a square number).

    Which is partly why I drew attention to this being exactly the wrong venue for that double-action slovenliness.

  53. Hotels are dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about you, but it's been widely reported in recent years in reputable publications like The Economist that there's actually a shortage of hotels.

    I'm in a first-world country that's not the USA and in mid-tier city that's more of a back office than corporate headquarters type of town and there have been hundreds of new hotel rooms added in the last few years with hundreds more under construction because there's still a shortage of accomodation. The annualised hotel room occupancy rate here is at 80%

    If AirBnB is having an effect on the hotel industry, it's probably only slightly retarding the growth rate.