Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the write-once-emulate-anywhere dept.
wald0 writes "This article highlights Sun's efforts at porting Solaris 7 to the Merced on a simulated prototype known as a "pre-silicon software development environment." An interesting piece on how Intel is opening the doors to other OS developers to create code for their chips. "
18 comments
"Done deal"
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Yes,done deal ! Just remember who designed Merced and you may get an idea who could have done it;-)
no big deal
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Unless Intel have significantly improved their Merced emulator from the second revision that I used, then this "port" is little more than a simple recompile of the 32 bit Solaris x86 to use the Merced instruction set. Hell, the second drop compiler only used the first slot of each triplet and made the other two NOP's. In fact the emulation software did not even execute 64 bit instructions, and the version of NT 4.0 that came with it that was already ported was SLOW as molasses on the very big SMP box we ran it on. Imagine if a 286 could run NT and you'll get the idea.
right
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
epic is internal hp project, intel is just marketing it. i read something about this awhile back, apparently hp engineers are somewhat disgruntled...this just goes to prove that marketing beats engineering anyday, and marketplace is full of drones who just want anything with intel brand
IA64 has fatal flaws
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
there is a problem with IA 64 in that the compiler has to do many of the optermisations and not the chip this of course allows better "guessing" if and its a BIG if you can get it right the first place if course to look at this stuff is byte ( mag ) as I cant find decent tec referance anyware and LIW is it a good thing ? I would like to know more can anyone tell me anything ??
john jones
jonesjones@postmaster.co.uk
on a ucky HP-UX at mo its 64 bit but is a dog !
Actually...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Actually it went something like "Hey, HP we can't get it to work. You've got a working design. HELP!!" (ALthough I don't remember exactly how they got HP's 'cooperation')
Sun on Merced? Support what you have!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I spent late last week trying to install Solaris x86 on a laptop, and couldn't get the PCMCIA cards working. I called Sun, and they told me that they no longer supports PCMCIA controllers on laptops in Solaris 7. WHAT!!! They told me that I could try a Xircom Parallel port adaptor, but support for that device would be dropped in Solaris 8. Does Sun take x86 Solaris seriously or not? What else will just be "dropped" in Solaris 8 because Sun doesn't feel like supporting it anymore.
Compiler has to be GCC/egcs. Where's the source?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Hi!
I see people seem to know that the "Merced simulation" for Linux is a "Done Deal". Does anybody have more info in this?
I guess Intel has a C-compiler that emits IA64 code. And that can be run on a simulator/profiler, I presume... I also presume this compiler is not publically available?!:-(
Well, if you're speaking about a "Merced simulation" for Linux, the compiler has to be GCC (egcs). And GCC is GPL'ed. I know that doesn't necessarily mean the source must be open to the world, but why not? What's the secret?
Well, I'm interested in this compiler. The EPIC (== VLIW) stuff could be interesting for other platforms too. I, for one, am highly interested in seeing a TI C62 (the newest DSP of TI with a VLIW architecture) target for GCC, so that I can use Linux as development platform iso. Windows.
Bart.Durinck@tvd.be
Sun on Merced? Support what you have!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I can certainly understand this, but removing support for a whole class of devices (PCMCIA) is ridiculous.
I was given a notebook at work and told to install Solaris x86 & Oracle on it. (For a portable Oracle server) When Solaris 7 turned out not support the PCMCIA system, I installed Linux & Oracle on it.
But if Sun wants Solaris on Intel, it's got to support common devices, or nobody's going to use it.
Sun on Merced? Support what you have!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Sun supports OEMs such as Siemens, Toshiba, etc. Sun is not going to write a driver for every gadget ever attached to a PC. Ask your laptop manufacturer about drivers for Solaris.
--P
Merced is dead!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Too bad that Merced will be a still born. Why doesnt Sun port Solaris to Alpha?:)
Actually...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I don't think so. As somebody directly involved you do not have the facts. Intel has done more work on Merced than most Intel-haters given them credit for. And HP does not have a "working design" to "cheat from."
Try again.
SUN isa little bit behind the times n'est ce pas?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Anybody recall this press release from SCO last year:
http://www.sco.com/press/releases/1998/6826.html
SANTA CRUZ, CA (September 30, 1998) - SCO (NASDAQ:SCOC) today reinforced its leadership position in developing a 64-bit UNIX system for the IA-64 architecture by shipping an early release of its UnixWare operating system for IA-64, along with a development environment, to selected Merced partners. This release enables strategic SCO OEMs and ISVs to begin developing 64-bit applications and infrastructure well in advance of the delivery of the Merced processor-based production systems.
As a result of its technical collaboration with Intel, SCO will also implement a new software architectural model that will ensure that current 32-bit applications gain the performance benefits of the 64-bit Merced processor, without having to make the application native 64-bit.
UnixWare System for Merced
Running on the Intel simulator, BL2 (Build Level 2) of UnixWare for the Merced processor is a full 64-bit UnixWare kernel and base utility set. The kernel takes full advantage of the Merced 64-bit addressing for memory and file access. In addition, the IA-64 dynamic library linking is implemented in this release.
BL2 of UnixWare for Merced has an extensive Software Developers Kit (SDK) to enable native IA-64 applications to be developed in the simulator environment. The SDK is available as both native IA-64 and hosted in a cross development environment on UnixWare 7 for IA-32.
So, who's going to rig a "merced simulator" for the Linux porting effort?
Losing ground to linux
by
Empty+Sands
·
· Score: 1
Maybe Sun have releasied that they can't hope to support certain areas and stay competative with linux in the long run. Maybe they have decided to focus on the high ground, SMP and large scale server applications. Allowing linux to take over, what will be it's by default in the long term anyway. (Because of it's development model)
"This is really important in the industry because Merced will be a powerful enough chip that it starts allowing Intel-based systems to deliver a lot more power than was available before," Croll said.
I guess this beats a powerful chip that doesn't deliver a lot more power than before...
Slashdot Mirror
Yes ,done deal ! ;-)
Just remember who designed Merced and
you may get an idea who could have done it
Unless Intel have significantly improved their Merced emulator from the second revision that I used, then this "port" is little more than a simple recompile of the 32 bit Solaris x86 to use the Merced instruction set. Hell, the second drop compiler only used the first slot of each triplet and made the other two NOP's. In fact the emulation software did not even execute 64 bit instructions, and the version of NT 4.0 that came with it that was already ported was SLOW as molasses on the very big SMP box we ran it on. Imagine if a 286 could run NT and you'll get the idea.
epic is internal hp project, intel is just marketing it. i read something about this awhile back, apparently hp engineers are somewhat disgruntled...this just goes to prove that marketing beats engineering anyday, and marketplace is full of drones who just want anything with intel brand
there is a problem with IA 64 in that the compiler has to do many of the optermisations and not the chip this of course allows better "guessing" if and its a BIG if you can get it right the first place if course to look at this stuff is byte ( mag ) as I cant find decent tec referance anyware and LIW is it a good thing ? I would like to know more can anyone tell me anything ??
john jones
jonesjones@postmaster.co.uk
on a ucky HP-UX at mo its 64 bit but is a dog !
Actually it went something like "Hey, HP we can't get it to work. You've got a working design. HELP!!" (ALthough I don't remember exactly how they got HP's 'cooperation')
I spent late last week trying to install Solaris x86 on a laptop, and couldn't get the PCMCIA cards working. I called Sun, and they told me that they no longer supports PCMCIA controllers on laptops in Solaris 7. WHAT!!! They told me that I could try a Xircom Parallel port adaptor, but support for that device would be dropped in Solaris 8. Does Sun take x86 Solaris seriously or not? What else will just be "dropped" in Solaris 8 because Sun doesn't feel like supporting it anymore.
Hi!
:-(
I see people seem to know that the "Merced simulation" for Linux is a
"Done Deal". Does anybody have more info in this?
I guess Intel has a C-compiler that emits IA64 code. And that can be
run on a simulator/profiler, I presume... I also presume this compiler
is not publically available?!
Well, if you're speaking about a "Merced simulation" for Linux, the
compiler has to be GCC (egcs). And GCC is GPL'ed. I know that doesn't
necessarily mean the source must be open to the world, but why not?
What's the secret?
Well, I'm interested in this compiler. The EPIC (== VLIW) stuff could
be interesting for other platforms too. I, for one, am highly
interested in seeing a TI C62 (the newest DSP of TI with a VLIW
architecture) target for GCC, so that I can use Linux as development
platform iso. Windows.
Bart.Durinck@tvd.be
I can certainly understand this, but removing support for a whole class of devices (PCMCIA) is ridiculous.
I was given a notebook at work and told to install Solaris x86 & Oracle on it. (For a portable Oracle server) When Solaris 7 turned out not support the PCMCIA system, I installed Linux & Oracle on it.
But if Sun wants Solaris on Intel, it's got to support common devices, or nobody's going to use it.
Sun supports OEMs such as Siemens, Toshiba,
etc. Sun is not going to write a driver for
every gadget ever attached to a PC. Ask your
laptop manufacturer about drivers for Solaris.
--P
Too bad that Merced will be a still born. :)
Why doesnt Sun port Solaris to Alpha?
I don't think so. As somebody directly involved you do not have the facts.
Intel has done more work on Merced than most Intel-haters given them
credit for. And HP does not have a "working design" to "cheat from."
Try again.
Anybody recall this press release from SCO last year:
l
http://www.sco.com/press/releases/1998/6826.htm
SANTA CRUZ, CA (September 30, 1998) - SCO (NASDAQ:SCOC) today reinforced its leadership position in developing a 64-bit UNIX system for the IA-64 architecture by shipping an early release of its UnixWare operating system for IA-64, along with a development environment, to selected Merced partners. This release enables strategic SCO OEMs and ISVs to begin developing 64-bit applications and infrastructure well in advance of the delivery of the Merced processor-based production systems.
As a result of its technical collaboration with Intel, SCO will also implement a new software architectural model that will ensure that current 32-bit applications gain the performance benefits of the 64-bit Merced processor, without having to make the application native 64-bit.
UnixWare System for Merced
Running on the Intel simulator, BL2 (Build Level 2) of UnixWare for the Merced processor is a full 64-bit UnixWare kernel and base utility set. The kernel takes full advantage of the Merced 64-bit addressing for memory and file access. In addition, the IA-64 dynamic library linking is implemented in this release.
BL2 of UnixWare for Merced has an extensive Software Developers Kit (SDK) to enable native IA-64 applications to be developed in the simulator environment. The SDK is available as both native IA-64 and hosted in a cross development environment on UnixWare 7 for IA-32.
Here's Sun's press release
So, who's going to rig a "merced simulator" for the Linux porting effort?
Maybe Sun have releasied that they can't hope to support certain areas and stay competative with linux in the long run. Maybe they have decided to focus on the high ground, SMP and large scale server applications. Allowing linux to take over, what will be it's by default in the long term anyway. (Because of it's development model)
"This is really important in the industry because Merced will be a powerful enough chip that it starts allowing Intel-based systems to deliver a lot more power than was available before," Croll said.
I guess this beats a powerful chip that doesn't
deliver a lot more power than before...
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I guess this is as good marketing as it gets, for Linux that is ;-)
Check the HCL for Solaris 7 x86. There ares /c0111.htm
over a dozen PCMCIA devices listed.
http://access1.sun.com/drivers/hcl/7/oct98/file