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Windows Refund Day Coverage
Kit Cosper sent some local coverage of the Windows Refund Day over our way-the article also talks about Linux, and its' relation to the Refund Day.
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Ever noticed how some unscrupulous manufacturers claim to be supplying you with $x000 worth of software (when it's really just worthless junk) with systems which cost a fraction of that? I wonder if you could get a refund on those ;)
Dump all 'yer Microsoft SW into the harbour. :-)
Choose LINUX - BY THE PEOPLE; FOR THE PEOPLE!
"This needs to be a giant class-action lawsuit with thousands of plaintiffs from around the world."
That's probably what will happen. Mass demands for a refund on 15 Feb will result in mass refusals, resulting in a class action lawsuit in turn.
Or maybe the OEMs *won't* refuse: the public wins either way.
Anyone else notice that Chris got an answer back and Mertz of Emachines claimed that $26 was his OEM price (minus expenses) for Win98 (and M$works too)
Someone at Dell, Compaq, Toshiba, etc, ought to make a stink about this.... either he is lying (and Emachines isn't refunded a fair amount) or else his OEM price is FAR below what the major players are paying, according to the figures we've all seen.
$26 for Win98, call it $25 + $1 for Works...
versus HOW much for a retail copy????
I suspect refunds will end the OEM price system...
Forget hiring a laywer.. Tell them that you don't agree to the EULA, and refusing to refund you means that they acknowlege that and refuse to do anything about it. Hence, you can tell them that you plan on reverse engineering, pirating, etc. etc. etc. because the EULA no longer applies to you. Then what do they do?
Ho ! Ho!
Bill gates is worth $82 Billion.
Microsoft is worth 5 times more.
Does meept's students friends think that 20 or so people getting their money back from a small PC manufacturer is going to hurt microsoft - or the pc manufacturer.
Or anybody. Except the credibilty of free loading students who pirate their music and then get jobs using microsoft software when they graduate.
Like LINUS himself !! HOHOHOHOHO!!
Meept has to go, as he is being cloned so that he can be with dolly the sheep.
MEEPT!!
The trial should be over, and any and all charges made against Microsoft, should be dropped, and voided, with an apology to Bill Gates and Microsoft.
Microsoft is doing what any other business does, and should not be singled out for wrong doings.
If the other Computer companies want to do what Microsoft is doing, then they should get busy creating a better produce, their own computers, and marketing it the best they can, as a competitor, not a compaliner.
The US Government and those pressing this lawsuit against Microsoft, should be more concerned about the lousy person we have as President, and clear the White House of the blight it has on it.
God Bless Bill Gates, and his Microsoft company of brilliant employees, and more power to the production of the Best Product, which the others are crying about.
Surely, somewhere, there are smart enough lawyers that can clear Microsoft of any wrong doing, and let Microsoft get back to work as normal.
Bill, get other lawyers that can surpass the current ones.
I have an idea!! lets punish the guy who is better at something by forming a rediculous trial and throw a wrench into today's open standards by creating our own css. Then since everyone will now have their own css we can surely win. The guinesses at microsoft saw this and said "hu. I will show them." and they patented css to enforce the open standard and throw out the innovator wantabee's like sun and adobe. Microsoft has done nothing wrong and I am not flaming but rather just stating my opinion. ITs the linux freaks are the flamers. U jsut state a honest opinion and these linux fanatics go nuts! You all believe in good code right? THEN WRITE A BETTER OS AND STOP COMPLAING!! I just ran quake on linux and windows and windows totally kicked butt. At default resolution and the smallest possible screen size I had 23 fps on linux. On full size I has around 48 fps. On windows I had 30 fps on the smallest screen size and over 52 fps on the largest. WOW! If linux can;t even handle games, then how can it handle real work? If you notice the fps lagged 7fps on the high end and around 3 or 4 fps on the low end. This tells me that the larger the load the more linux lags behind, showing that linux is unscalable. Think about how long a huge 3d animation would take on linux if the larger the load the worst the performance would get. WIndows would just seem faster and faster on huger and huger loads. According to zdnet, windows NT on a 3,000 computer can beat a 8,000 risc based workstation running unix on cad applications. THATS RIGHT!! The editors were in shock. I forgot the url but www.microsoft.com has saved the linked because it shows hwo good their products really are. Just look in the windows NT section and do a comparison.
Hear, hear!
The original suggestion was to take it back to the OEMs, which appears to be consistent with what the EULA specifies. Within a few days it had mutated to the way people are playing it now. (IIRC, the first Web page dedicated to it had already specified returning things to MS.)
Do it right, folks: take it back to your OEM. The answer is going to be "no" either way, but we need to make sure WE aren't the ones who don't follow the instructions.
If you're a foaming-mouthed anti-MS bezerker (like me), don't be disappointed. Squeezing the OEMs squeezes MS. We've got an opening; let's not blow it by failing to follow the instructions.
It's silly to use Quake as a comparison of speeds...games like quake are a pretty specialized type of application, and its frame rate is going to depend a lot on the configuration of your system.
If linux can;t even handle games, then how
can it handle real work?
This statement is silly..."real work" uses completely different resources than Quake. So you read that Windows is faster at something...that proves nothing.
The license says to talk to the vendor, so that's who I'm mailing to. What they want to do with Microsoft is their business. The vendor provided this software with a license which says to contact them, so I shall. If the vendor ignores that requirement of the contract then they'll deal with the consequences.
I just ran quake on linux and windows and windows totally kicked butt. At default resolution and the smallest possible screen size I had 23 fps on linux. On full size I has around 48 fps. On windows I had 30 fps on the smallest screen size and over 52 fps on the largest.
Linux currently lacks fast low-level graphics output facilities (a la DirectDraw *blech!*), except for svgaLib, which has some problems. X11 is really slow, and software Mesa is horrible (but it wasn't created for this!). When the fbcon/ggi stuff gets more drivers/stability, I'm sure the situation will improve.
If linux can;t even handle games, then how can it handle real work?
And you think that an "OS" that locks up so often, even on a clean system, and has to be reinstalled every 3 months to keep it stable (!) can handle "real work"?
Dear Anonymous Coward who posted "Leave poor Bill alone:
Have you been reading the news coming from the DOJ v. Microsoft trial?
If you have, then please explain to me why we should support a company that introduced into evidence a tape that "showed" a certain thing - Felton's program made Microsoft Windows 98 run slower - and come to find out that the tape does not represent the point being made. The tape does not even show the computer that the test was run on.
The tape was sworn into evidence as being trueful and accurate by a high ranking Microsoft official - but it was not. Does that not spell out "perjury"? This is exactly what the President is accused of - perjury.
I do not know about you, but I would be very embrassed to sing the praises of a company that appears, in a court of law under oath, to have done the same as the President - committed perjury.
Is there now not a blight on Microsoft that is the same as the one on the White House?
Dear Anonymous Coward who posted "SHOULD MS BE PUNISHED for being smart":
I suggest that you review the news coming from the DOJ v. Microsoft anti-trust trial.
The Microsoft being shown by the DOJ is not a "smart" company, rather a ruthless company that will do anything, which may include illegal acts, to "protect" the company. Not even the lawyers from Microsoft are able to show otherwise. Remember, as a monopoly, the rules for corporate behavior are different under the law.
If Microsoft was such a smart company, why would they need "exclusive" and "restrictive" licensing agreements from OEMs, vendors and ISPs for Windows 9x and IE v4.x?
If their product is superior to all others, then Windows 9x and IE v 4.x should be sold in an unrestricted and non-exclusive environment for OEMs, vendors and ISPs. The market would show what product, by any company, that was superior/most wanted by consumers.
If Microsoft was such a smart company, why did they fear a lawsuit from Apple Computer regarding the alleged "stealing" of features/technology?
If their product is superior to all others, then they should have no fear and should have told Apple Computer "see you in court."
If Microsoft was such a smart company, why would they need to release another version of the Windows 98/DOS kernel when they had promised not to since Windows 2000 Consumer Version would be the next version of Windows?
If their product is superior to all others, then there should be no sudden and contridictary announcement of another release of the Windows 98/DOS kernel.
I look forward to your comments.
If you read my previous posting, you would notice that I benchmarked quake and found that linux doesn't hold up to regular and high end graphic computing. THe w98 kernel is released because its the best one for sonsumer computing. The NT kernl does have problems with some consumer apps but its better at higher end and network stuff. The kernel is very fast with graphics and is great for stuff like autocad and 3d studio max. Its no wonder that autodesk prefers to use windows to unix. autocad use to exist for unix but consumers made a conscience discision to chose windows over unix. OF course unix was better then dos and very high end machines, but those days are over. Reugular pc's now have 3d cards and you dont need 2 pu's to do animation anymore. I expect this new windows market to grow. For 1.) computer hardware is faster. 2.) 3d cards are gettiing faster and cheaper 3.) Impendence will keep consumers and 3d artist to windows because its easier, no need for cryptic text commands and windows is friendly and has cool consumer stuff like splashy gui's and such. Unix is dead. Linux is doing well now because its free. Its not that good. Its just free. Isp's are using linux because they are running out of money and it is free. It may have better disk cahcing then NT but its scalability still is pretty close to NT and its not enough too woo NT users. But this is high end computing. In the next couple years, high end computing today will turn into regual computing over time. Before 1989 all file sharing was strickly done on a mainframe. The compaq system pro was scoffled and laughed at. Jesse THought that compaq was out of their minds and he advised everyone to use a mainframe instead. New even low end pc's can become file server. Same is true with graphics. Not an old 486 is more then enough for autocad. Before 1980 the only way you could compile, was with a mainframe. Pc's at the time were too slow to compile anything besides silly non bussiness stuff. Everything was compiled at a mainframe or minicomputer. Now even the cheapest systems can compile fairly complex software easily, Unles linux looses its mainframe like core, it will be doomed. High end is becoming more and more low end. You all remind of the editors of computer magazines of 15 years ago. The new 286's were cool toys but lets focus on the real computers for basic bussiness needs like this new dec machine.
For all you linux lamers, here is some news. IE beat Netscape when downloading html by 15-30% because of the new kernel based rendering and networking. hehe Innovation is cool isn't it. Also netscape doesn't support css in their latest release.
Sell your useless Windows OS on eBay!
I've been bidding at $40.00 and have watched the price of Win 98 go to 89.00 and more for OEM unregistered with COA.
Anyone wanting $26.00 for their Windows 98 with unregistered code, contact me; m.j.tuggle@worldnet.att.net
Here is the url http://www.zdnet.com/pccomp/stories/reviews/0,5672 ,383007,00.html
According to the article, Indelible Blue now preloads Linux.
The biggest change I see is that the DOS commands are going away or being hidden, and that the screens and "pretties" keep changing. Why should my operating system paint pretty pictures on the background instead of have the stability to exit a peice of software without semi-consistently crashing. I've used Win 3.1, 3.11, Win95, and Win98, and it seems that each one becomes increasingly unstable, and easier to crash. What's worse is that the comptuers people get now don't even have a reset button anymore. Are these computers really designed to have Win95/98 on them? We've also seen Windows try to become more like Unix as time wears on. Run FTP or PING from a DOS prompt. It's like those "Power Macs" that are supposed to be so great because they can read PC disks, and even run some PC software. Why accept a poor imitation when you can get the real thing?
I really don't like the government screwing with people's affairs, but I know that I feel wedged into having to use Windows and I hate it.
Forget them all! Bring back the Commodore 64's!
Ok boys and girls, raise your hand if you think EULA's are invalid. Wow, what I nice show of hands.
Ok boys and girls, how many of you realize that the GPL is an EULA? I see. Not too many. Oh wait, now that you've had time to think about it, more hands are going up. Yay.
Windows refund day is VERY VERY VERY bad for GPL'd software. Don't you see, you are proving EULA's are invalid. The GPL is an EULA.
What's to stop me from incorporating GPL'd code into my commercial product? All I have to say is that I didn't sign the licensing agreement, or that I crossed out the parts I didn't like and then signed it.
You're missing the point of the GPL. It states, in essence, that you are absolutely free to take any piece of software published under GPL and modify it, rewrite it, tweak it, resell it for a zillion bucks, include it as part of a commercial project, or anything else you want to do with it JUST AS LONG AS you meet one specific criterion. Why can't I just cross out that criterion? It 's an EULA after all. That you also include the complete source code and details of any modifications you may have made. You missed my point. Proving EULA's invalid proves the GPL invalid.
Uhhh, one small problem... the people fighting the Windoze EULA aren't using Windoze. You can only fight a EULA if you choose not to use the software.
In essence, someone disagreeing with the GPL and then putting the code with their commercial app (without including the source) is equivalent to someone disagreeing with the Windoze EULA and trying to get their money back after they installed Windoze (which I'm sure some people have done).
Hehe. Tell Microsoft that you're an avid pirate, and you won't be able to control your ruthless urges unless they take the software back from you. That's why you can't accept your license.
Don't fear the penguins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People complain about paying the windows tax for software they will never use. Has nobody ever considered doing what I did when I set up my servers? I built them. They cost less than premanufactured crap from Slackard Hell or Compuke, they have better parts, they are sturdier, studlier, more macho, AND they have never in their lives seen MicroSlut software. I installed RedHat.
And for those who don't know how to build a machine? Local computer tech shops can build you one cheap as blazes, and most of them will even pre-install Linux for you if you don't know how to do so already.
If they refuse to give my money back, I know exactly what I would do. I would inform them right then and there that I /still/ didn't agree with their licensing clause, that I couldn't be bound by it, and that I was going to set up a warez site with my copy of Windows, which I was forced to pay for against my will, available for anyone to download for free.
And I would do exactly that.
- Sean
- SeanNi
- SeanNi
- #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
This is a contractual issue. Failure to follow through on the clause on Microsoft's or the OEM's part means they are open to a class action suit, something they don't want at this point in time. Believe me, some enterprising lawyer will smell blood and help set up one against the OEMs and Microsoft if they don't honor it on the 15th.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
This article appeared on the front page, rather than just in the business section, of the (Raleigh, N.C.) News and Observer, which is published in the capital city of the state, which is in the Research Triangle Park area, where a whole bunch of computer, bio-tech, pharmaceutical, and other big-time companies have headquarters or important branch offices. Also there are 3 major universities in the area (THE University of North Carolina, Duke, and North Carolina State University). So, In spite of a few mistakes and inaccuracies, this is a Good Thing.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
"improved over the years through gang-programming by a handful of enthusiasts"
A handful?! Yuhuh. Sure.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
If you are making this happen in your area, please email me so we can get you on a list with other coordinators. :)
_Deirdre
Sure, one (or a couple) people managed to get refunds, but I have my doubts that an organized drive will get anywhere. Not yet, anyway.
People who would be interested in this (eg Linux users) make up a rather small percent of the people who get Windows preinstalled on their PC's. Even so, that's quite a bit of money! And whatever else you say about computer venders (and MS for that matter), they are not stupid enough to let a revenue stream slip through their fingers without fighting for it.
- Slarty
Hi... I'm Larry... the shivering chipmunk... brrrrr!... I'm cold... I need a sweater...
At the very least, it's horrible publicity for Microsoft to look as though the only way they can get users to use their operating systems is by stuffing said operating systems down people's throats, especially while trying to prove that they're not a monopoly.
The note that the Windows contract is between OEMs and the end user doesn't bode well for this protest. If this is in fact the case, MS can, and probably will, just tell those involved to go deal with the company from which they purchased the computer.
This is a great idea, but I think it should be directed at OEMs, the ones who are actually bound by the contract. I'd recommend using the LFD site and its resources as a way to put extra muscle on OEMs for customers, perhaps organizing concerted efforts against specific suppliers. They're the ones who're ultimately responsible for this mess for agreeing to MS's licensing terms, and they're the ones who're going to have to protest to Redmond directly.
Another way of protesting, which could do more to get OEMs' attention is to take advantage of our semi-free market and vote with our dollars by buying preinstalled Linux machines. Two of my friends have computers from the wonderful folks at VA Research; the machines are great, and I'm planning on buying my next desktop computer from them.
For those for whom VA's prices are a little high (i.e. buying those bargain Compaqs and the like), I'd encourage them to, even if the response is negative, ask that all MS software be removed/not installed and try to get the refund right away. If they won't get rid of Windows, perhaps you can save some cash on Works, Office, McAffee, or whatever they're pushing on you.
That said, I wish everyone luck. May you get your refunds.
Personally I give 2:1 odds that this particular Anonymous Coward actually works for Microsoft. This looks exactly like the kind of post that they tend to post-- namely the 'other companies do the same thing, just Microsoft is better at it', and 'Microsoft makes the best products in the world'. Both of which are of course total $#!+. 'nuff said in response to a lamer like this.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
I agree that people need to go directly to the Manufacturer.
I have a page set up specifically for Dell at
http://ibis.home.texas.net/dell.html.
I won't argue with you about flamers except to say that it's about equal on both sides of the fence and only shows the mental capacity of the flamer. They tend to be less technologicaly adept. Either way, your entitled to your opinion. However, I do notice you are an anonymous coward, Your comments give some light to that respect. ;-) and Linux not? You obviously have little experience in this respect. ;-)
I detect that you think windows to be scalable,
I too occasionally run through a quick game of Quake on my linux boxes, however my performance is on average much better than what you were getting on your Windows machine. You must have some bad/inferior H/W. Probably the latter, as I have never experienced this "lag" that you refer to.
As to better code, well, It has been written, Linux / FreeBSD are two such examples. At least there is the ability to fix and clean up the bugs.
Unfortunately for MS, that is no longer possible, If they tried to Fix the code the way it should be then they would without question, break what is left that curently limps along, not to mention the apps, that were developed on/for MS platforms by third parties. Chew on this for awhile the next time your staring at a BSOD.