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Important Windows Refund Day co-ordination News
As everyone should know by now, Monday is Windows Refund Day. A number of co-ordinated regional events and/or group requests have been planned for Refund Day. If you have software to return, please bring along all of your (unused) original installation media and supporting documentation, including manuals, Certificates of Authenticity, any purchase receipts, and evidence that you have never used the copy of Windows for which you will be seeking a refund. In most areas, interested people who are not returning software are also more than welcome to tag along.
Most importantly, however, participants in those regions where there are organized refund efforts should not simply show up at Microsoft offices on their own; that would cause unwelcome chaos and confusion. Polite and orderly refund requests are essential to the success of this event, as well as to obtaining continued favorable media coverage.
Therefore, several regional Refund Day organizers have designated advance meeting places or contact procedures for participants in Northern California, Southern California, New York City, France, New Zealand, Japan, and the Netherlands. (In some of these places, a single representative will make requests on behalf of everyone; in others, group meetings or demonstrations are planned.) Please examine your regional Windows Refund co-ordination site and carefully follow the directions there; this will also ensure that you get the most recent and accurate news possible.
Check the list of efforts at the Windows Refund Day resources one more time to get the most recent news for your area, and good luck on the 15th!
Why not make this a once a month event? First month's publicity attracts people who missed hearing about it beforehand, second month's publicity attracts people who didn't know there was a non-MS choice unless buying an Apple, pretty soon we could be talking snowflake becomes avalanche.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Do events like this really contribute to a positive opinion of Linux users? What does this gain other than (possibly bad) publicity? You know and the press knows that refunds on pre-installed Windows products can only be gotten from the OEM in question, not Microsoft.
Seems like the possible result of this is a general public opinion that Linux users are a frenzied group of fanatics. Were I not already a Linux junkie, I might question the idea of using it, because I don't want to be "uncool".
I guess I miss the days when Linux users were of the helpful "lets create the best UNIX on a PC" type. Sigh.
- Be (?)
- SCO
- OS/2
- Windows NT (!)
They just chose to organize it along operating system lines, and referred inquiries to the other organizers. Seriously, if you had sent your criticism to the Bay Area organizers themselves, you would have received contact information for these people, and a thoughtful response to your question or criticism.The Bay Area event will have a lot of media coverage, so attendance of Bay Area people at the local event is greatly appreciated. A lot of people have been trying to criticize the Bay Area Windows Refund Day. I think they are criticizing it for its success and for the hard work of its organizers, who consistently encouraged non-Bay Area and non-Linux people to set up their own events, and made offers of support and assistance to them when they did so. We in the Bay Area have our event that we've worked very hard on (to make into a large event, to organize, to co-ordinate, and to publicize), and we are by no means antagonistic to any other events.
This whole thing is STUPID. Do these dumb ass California people think everybody lives in silicon valley. I am supposed to by a plane ticket and fly their.
They should have organized it as a mail telephone campaign. Idiots.
Bend over, stick your head between your legs, and ask the Linux dork behind you what he is holding.
So what if Linux users look like a bunch of freaks? Linux is already gaining corporate acceptance, and that was due to the quality of the OS, not it's image. This display is only going to look weird to outsiders, who may not have even heard of Linux yet and see this Monday's events on the news when they get home from work or school. A rebellious edge can't hurt. The timid will not use Linux until the brave have gone first, and that's the people who count right now. Once the leaders embrace Linux, then the lemmings will follow. . .
--curtisf
Posted by ChristianC:
Forced tying of sales of distinct products ("dependent sales") is prohibited by European law.
This means that EVERYONE, not just Linux/other OS users, who has bought a computer with Windows installed is entitled to a refund. Considering the amount of machines with Windows in Europe, the refund could run into several billion euros.
Start an event of your own. You see, we're in California, and so we started an event in California. Silly, I know, but it's easier for us to get to.
There are also events in New York City, Japan, The Netherlands, France, and New Zealand. Now that isn't the whole world, but it's getting closer.
If you're genuinely concerned about the lack of an event in your area, feel free to start one.
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I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
3 points
1. Any publicity is GOOD publicity
2. Give the media something to film!
3. Frenzied fanatics have a tendency to get their way.
I think this will not grow into crazy manifistation, battle with guards, etc.. :-)
I hope people will take fun, play rock'n'roll, show some funny messages. And be interviewed.
Andrew
the refund could run into several billion euros
Whuzzat in real money? Bout ten bucks?
If they're really aren't enough people in your area (remember it doesn't have to just be Linux users - any user who has ditched their pre-installed MS-OS, even NT users who have decided they didn't want Windows 95/8 on their machine) then just go it alone (or with the few that are there). Every single person who asks for a refund on Monday are helping get the message across.
Personally I can't do anything. I don't have any MS licences. In fact my PC is MS free. I bought it from an independent supplier and asked for NO OS. I insisted on it. This was even before the time Linux was popular. Only a few people had heard of it and linux.org was a site hosted on a modem with all its links to offsite resources.
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Microsoft will simply announce that Windows can only be uninstalled using Windows, and therefore no refunds are possible. Any claims to the contrary will be refuted with reference to a doctored videotape and denials that Windows is "really" gone from those machines.
Windows Refund Day isn't about Linux. It's only coincidentally about alternative OS's at all.
It's really about showing people how hard it has been to get MS to follow their OWN guidelines (ie the EULA) let alone the government's.
More importantly, are the *trade rags* open tomorrow? A lot of the online industry pages may not be publishing Monday.
It'd be kind of pointless if refund day gets no press coverage because all the reporters are off.
Monday is Presidents' Day. Are we even sure Microsoft offices will be open in the United States?
I live and work like down the road from the one in Mountain View...aif its not raining, maybe i'll walk down to VA Research :)
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HotsOS home http://hotsos.8m.com/
> This whole thing is STUPID. Do these dumb ass > California people think everybody lives
> in silicon valley. I am supposed to by a plane > ticket and fly their.
Uhhh... You really have a way with words, Beavis... Uhh...huhuHuhhh
The coordinators of the Bay Area Windows Refund Day event have made it clear that not all are welcome at their event. They've specifically insisted that users of alternative operating systems which are NOT "open source" (such as OS/2, BeOS, and NetWare) schedule "separate" (their word) events. Because this group refuses to be collegial and insists upon pushing a divisive agenda, it's important that those seeking to participate in such an event go elsewhere. Bay Area OS/2, Be, and NetWare users should consider going to the Southern California events, which are more inclusive. Several airlines have cheap airfares to John Wayne airport, which is near the Irvine event.
It's my understanding that the Euro Parliament's laws have no binding effect. They have to be implemented by each individual nation's government.
Does this rule apply everywhere in the EU?
Go back and reread the refund stories as well as the EULA. First, the EULA says you will be refunded the money you paid for the OS license you do not accept.
Okay, no problems yet.
Two, look at the url's describing the pain that one must go through to get that money. It's patently absurd. The OEMs are not abiding by the terms of the contract they have given M$, nor are they abiding by the terms in the EULA, of which they are one of three involved parties.
Now, since one of those parties (OEM) will not honor their agreement with another party (customer) the customer's first action should be to contact the third party (M$) to get the OEM to honor the agreement. If that pans out, then it's time for a class action suit against OEMs.
Actually I do have win3.1 on one of my boot partitions. But I am not going to ask for a refund because I was stupid enough to try it out for a few days back in 1992. I never deleted it because it also had DOS5.0, later upgraded to DOS6.0, and subsequently upgraded to DOS6.2. All for total cost of $200 in 1992 dollars. I leave it there for historical reasons. Maybe that should be hysterical reasons. But I wont ask for a refund because that would not be right. The people have moral, and ethical, standards that MS would never accept for their own corporate behavior.
> Microsoft will simply announce that >Windows can only be uninstalled using Windows, >and therefore no refunds are possible. Any claims >to the
> contrary will be refuted with >reference to a doctored videotape and denials >that Windows is "really" gone from those >machines.
Two words: boot disk.
Participants in Windows Refund Day have already learned that their OEMs won't honor the EULA; therefore, they're going to take their case up with Microsoft, which is ultimately responsible for EULA enforcements. This should promote a reasonable, consistent settlement, and avoid any litigation.
The issue of operating system choice is important to many Linux users, and Microsoft's own existing EULA conveniently provides for a way to get a refund, which makes the economic burden of choosing some other operating system much less. Therefore, Linux users who want Linux to be more accessible -- or at least affordable -- to people who buy machines from large national OEMs should support the enforcement of the EULA and the granting of refunds for unused copies of Windows.
The difference between the "dumb ass California people" and you is that we got off our butts to do something. If you think a mail/telephone campaign works better, ORGANIZE IT!
This is the open source community. That means if you want something done and it's not being done the way you like it, you are free to change that.
_Deirdre
Come to the events. As the SVLUG says, "if you don't like the news, make some of your own."
If there's not an event in your area, model it after the existing ones. Show up, make a difference.
Thanks.
_Deirdre (coordinator for Orange County, CA, see http://www.deirdre.org/rebellion.html)
... that this will happen:
9 AM, Microsoft employee steps out of office, sets up desk with sign; "Windows Refund Day Returns."
Linux user (not quite bright enough to decipher the EULA) walks up to desk.
Linux User: "I've never used my copy of Windows 98, and I want a refund!"
Microsoft Employee: "Of course, Sir. Where did you purchase your computer?"
Linux User: "CompUSA."
Microsoft Employee: (Pulls out map of the area, with "You are here" marked on it. Circles the local CompUSA, and writes "CompUSA" next to it). "Sir, I'm sure that the local CompUSA will address your concerns. Next!"
Please please please...
Complete with Gods, Saints and other deities.
Microsnot will get a REAL LAUGH when Refund Day flops. Anyone thought of that? Nah, just cry Linux! and release the dogs of FUD! TROLL! FUD!
Alas, the 12 yearolds are playing again. And the press will love it.
I would agree with you if the whole thing becomes ugly and say people start a riot or something like that.
But if the organizers of this event keep the crowds in "control" and not let the situation (no matter what type of a response they get from Microsoft , the press or the law enforcement) get out of hand everthing should be fine.
The main thing is keeping the calm while they make their point and their mark.
The sites organizing the even keep reminding people and readers to be "polite". Let just hope the crowds that show up for the events keep the peace.
sidster-- ...
enough cookies for the day
Events like these will only cause companies to continue to dismiss Linux as an OS maintained by a group of young, immature "hackers". As its image gets worse, they will only become less likely to take the time to evaluate Linux's quality.
In fact, the event is getting surprisingly
...
positive media attention all over the place.
Even the San Francisco Chronic, possibly one of
the worst local papers on earth, has written
a semi-clueful article about the silicon valley
affair.
One thing to remember, many people in the media
are fully aware of the shortcomings of MS products
they are forced to use by their shortsighted MIS
departments, and seem to jump at the chance to
exact a bit of revenge. The only possible thing
that can go wrong is if a bunch of bozos at
one of the MS offices start acting like bozos and
giving the cameras something "exciting" to look
at.
No chance of MS throwing some shills into the mix,
of course. Not that I'm paranoid or anything
Actually, I had this wierd dream last night where
Microsoft had the Windows Refund people napalmed
when they showed up, and then used their usual
courtroom tactics to get away with it. "What? No,
we didn't napalm them, and we are disappointed
that the government would bring up such a sideshow
event. This just shows how weak their case against
us *really* is, that they have to resort to some
peripheral issue like mass slaughter..."
Let me put it this way: in buying a machine with Windows, and finding it difficult to buy one without (putting it together notwithstanding), this points out to the Justice Department how little real "choice" we have.
Besides, this is something Microsoft *offered*. The EULA specifies to return it for a refund. That's what we're doing. What's wrong with that? I for one will donate the $ to one of the free software groups.
_Deirdre
I'm no European either. But I say that in a few years, France, Germany, Italy, etc. will be little more than convenient regional nomenclature. Districts of one huge nation called "Europe". Asia and the Americas will soon subsequently follow a similar plan.
Events like these will only cause companies to continue to dismiss Linux as an OS maintained by a group of young, immature "hackers". As its image gets worse, they will only become less likely to take the time to evaluate Linux's quality.
I and others have mailed the Bay Area organizers about this. They have responded by saying, "If you don't like the news, make some of your own." (That's a direct quote.) They insist upon excluding users of other OSes from their event, saying, "Tough. Do your own." What's more, in their comments to the press, they have portrayed the event as Linux-only. They've even failed to mention the BSDs, even though members of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users' Group have helped them to organize the event.
This isn't a time for OS zealotry, yet they've managed to inject it. This is why it's important to avoid their effort and support others instead.