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Apple Denies Opensourcing Quicktime/Changes APSL
webslacker writes
"According to Macintouch,
several Apple sources are denying that Quicktime will actually
be opensourced. It could just end up being a simple confusion
of Quicktime viewers and Quicktime server, seeing as how news.com
made it sound as if all of Quicktime is going to be opensource. "
Here is Yesterday's Story on the subject.
Update: 04/19 06:17 by H :Apple has said, however, that the newly unveiled QuickTime Streaming Server will be included under the Apple Public Source License.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_1.ht ml
It's all academic now.
Have a nice day,
AC
PS. yes, its the server, not QT. that would be ludicrous.
Have a nice day,
AC
I really don't see any benefit to either M$'s AVI format or Apple's QT. Both always result in larger files of lower quality than MPEG video, which anyone can play on any platform nowadays and is the video format in DVDs (MPEG2) and even in VCDs (MPEG1). Okay, I admit the 360-degree, scrollable QT images are neat, but not worth being locked into one company's standard. We just need better Open Source decoders AND *encoders*.
Apple has released the Streaming Server portion of QT 4 to the Open Source community under the APSL. It also says that it has updated the APSL "in response to feedback". The updated APSL hasn't showed up on their site yet... it's still dated March 16/99.
All links available from http://www.macnn.com
Funny isn't it how QuickTime has been chosen as the transport layer for the MPEG4 standard?
Don't be impressed by the Slashdot idiots. Darwin didn't get trounced. In fact the Mac, NeXT and possibly *BSD communities really appreciate it. We're all waiting for Apple to release the binary distro and the missing parts like the DriverKit. Stay tuned.
Perhaps reading the press release would be enough evidence?
YEA!!!!!!!!
Things can only get better.!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok.. that is nice... you can stream anything quicktime... from any platform you want for free... That is cool if you ask me!!
.but I am sure there is one.. at least if the terms of the license are broken... you know... what would be the point of a license if you can't enforce it!... Anyway.. that looks like good stuff to me... Not the best imaginable but Good news indeed!
Whatever you guys say... I have a lot of experience qith digital video and Quicktime really is the best standard available out there right now...
Hey The APSL has been upgraded... among interesting things is that it is a lot shorter now and easier to understand!! It seems that there are no longuer any mentions of export laws and this stuf... So these are good things...
It seems that you still have to post your changes but they insist on this only if you actually deploy these modifications to the code.... I never had a problem with this... but the clarifications are welcomed!
Ok.. I haven't seen anything about a termination clause... I am sure there is still one... maybe better define than before..
YEA!!!!!!!!
Things can only get better.!!!!!!!!!!!
We geeks, ac's, and nerds are on our way to concer the world.!!!!!!!
Linux, Apache, *BSD (including darwin), Hurd, Gimp, KDE, E., WINE!!!!
Winers of the world unite in promoting active change.
This is the (relatively near) future.
I'm waiting to comment on the APSL until after I hear what BP and ESR and OSI, and maybe even CT himself have to say about it.
That way I'll know whether or not to think this is a good thing.
Seriously...it's suprising how without the controversy of a BP/ESR debate on the subject how few people are posting on the thread.
Maybe without leadership the linux crowd is less likely to raise a fuss and just get the coding done.
The terminatin clause has never been an issue except for Bruce Perens and his ilk. OTOH the inclusion of the US export law rendered the APSL 1.0 unacceptable for anyone not living in the United States. This has been fixed.
Gawd, they should have left #8 in there. Now all the zit-faced Linux kiddies (who are BOTH minors AND incompetent) will get to play with it. :)))
I'm disgusted. That is a seriously irrational philosophy: let's wait for our "leader" to tell us what to think.
That's the sheep-mentality that keeps people buying M$ products.
I agree, the Linux "crowd" could get coding done, but of late the Linux community is getting defensive and, as I said earlier, irrational.
The new APSL is much easier to understand; read it for yourself and *then* look at others' comments. Don't wait for a leader to do it for you. That disturbs me.
I think the AC was joking. Note the "seriously now," followed by a joke/criticism of the fact that people aren't drawn to this issue without the involvement of the initials crowd?
I knew that you could.
Have a cookie.
Let 'em play with it all they want as long as there's adult supervision of the codeline. I'm still waiting to see how Apple handles their relationship with external developers. If they manage to craft a constitution that discourages one-party rule and the development agenda can be managed in a multipartite manner, then I will be amped.
That was sort of the point.
If an Open Source Liscense falls from an Apple tree in the middle of the forest and BP isn't there to trash it, did it really happen?
Yes, precisely. And as mentioned, QT is the MPEG 4 transport medium.
And I seriously doubt you got better compression with an mpeg codec than with somehting like sorenson video (think nice pretty Star Wars trailer)
Not to mention the fact that MPEG is not as easily edited as QuickTime, nor is it able to support funky resolutions (such as the non-letterboxed, non-cropped cinematic resolution of the Ep. 1 trailer). Hell, you ever see a single-file interactive MPEG? IIRC, that damn annoying Buy QuickTime 3 Pro movie is an interactive movie file, FYI...
- Dopiate
QT streaming has nowhere to go but up! M$ and RealNetworks are quaking in their boots over thie new competitor with Open Source Streaming Server software. IBM and SGI have already announced they will incorporate QT Streaming Server into their products...
This rocks!
Old trailer: 480x216 pixels, 22 kHz stereo.
New trailer: 640x288 pixels, 44 kHz stereo
File size: unchanged!
Requires QuickTime 4.0.
Download both at apple.com/quicktime.
MPEG 4 is the successor to MPEG 2, and yes it is based on QT.
Quicktime plays just about everything and then some. MP3, Flash, this 'n that.
So sure, it's bigger than 1MB, but if ya got it, your set.
Really. Make your own client. QT uses the RTP/RTSP protocols for web streaming, so you don't need a QT player...
http://webx.lists.apple.com/?14@^821@.ee77a05
There are no comments there yet, but Apple has made a discussion list for "QTSS-Open-Source-Development". My guess is that this is there because Apple plans to do it.
Apple denies all rumors until there is a product announcement.
Have a nice day,
AC
Funny that Apple and all it's supposed irrelevance get so much time hear at /. (and everywhere else too).
Would be great if QT were opened as much as possible (i know it can't be 100% open cause Apple doesn't own all the technologies in it). It's good technology (just ask George Lucas), and the upcoming QT 4 will be pretty darned powerful.
I hope that they at least open the server portion. It's been rumored for months that they will.
Thanks Apple for listening.
They'll break down and release it for Linux eventually. I'd be surprised if they didn't have at least a Linux binary by Applefest or Macworld or whatever it is. We need to show an overwhelming desire for a Quicktime compile on Linux even if it means writing our own Quicktime library and shoving it down their throat.
> but like so many things, it may be on the wane.
With the success of the Star Wars trailer, I doubt it. It may be on the wane with unix users since xanim can't handle the new codes (through no fault of its own obviously!)
> MS Netshow, RealVideo, etc. are (arguably) on their way up.
Which is why I think Apple is trying to put a foot on their throat and squash them all. They obviously want QT to be they video platform.
As for how they plan to address the growing number of *nix users is a big question. Maybe when they have QT4 client up to snuff on Mac OS X Server then can work on porting it to the other platforms.
Of course, all the 'Be free or die' people will say that it wont be on all platforms until they GPL the source. Because we all know that all those people running Plan 9 out there really want QT4 ;-)
-- Are you an EFF member yet?
Considering that MPEG 4 *is* Quicktime, your point is moot.
they tried to go Opensource with Darwin but got firmly trounced. don't expect then to opensource anything else anytime soon. looks like Darwin may die too judging by the sudden lack of effort by Apple to do anything more or even comment on it.
everytime I'm negative about something like this the results are good. everytime I begin to feel like Apple really needs to shape up and I get a bad attitude they go and renew my hope. yes folks, this one only took a few hours to get results. I've been singlehandidly saving Apple with my 'bad attitude'tm since 1996 :->
MS Netshow, RealVideo, etc. are (arguably) on their way up. And neither of those companies seem too likely to start throwing source code at us anytime soon. (Insert requisite guffaws re: Microsoft here.)
Taking something this popular, and giving away at least the viewer part of the code, could be successful. They might even adopt the Real Networks model - keep some of the best stuff for themselves, to sell off (say, the server) and give the viewer away. Only this time, with attendant source code, and a real license (none of this weird Apple license stuff, which has entirely too many bugbears in it).
I'm not saying it's likely, not even that it's necessarily wise. But it is an option...
"Whoops" is right. They got it all backwards. What good is a free server if there aren't any free clients out there?
It's nice to flail about worrying about the license, but has anyone looked at the source with a desire to have it compile on x86 Linux or even LinuxPPC?
I had a quick look at it, but the Makefile appears to be heavily slanted towards only working with the NeXTStep compiler/development management system.
Anyone having any luck with it?
Mpeg does me no good if the things I want to view are in AVI or Quicktime format. Granted that I don't view a lot of video on my computer, but when there is something that I do want to view, it is almost always in Quicktime format.
Of all the comments I've ever posted, this is definately one of them
It's official. I just received this email from Apple:
That sounds pretty 'released' to me. I'm downloading it now.
I don't know why everybody seems to think this rumor is early fact - so far, I haven't seen any source to backup the initial story on news.com.
Rumors and speculation are just that - and if they don't pan out, blame the rumor mongers, not the subjects of hearsay.
QA implies some kind of quality to begin with.
--
"Merging into heavy traffic at near light speed!"
"Merging into heavy traffic at near light speed!"
"Our inertial mass ever increasing!"
QuickTime is primarily a transport mechanism for different media formats, and it ships with the ability to read several different formats (encapsulated in codecs), MPEG being one of them.
Saying "support MPEG instead of QuickTime" is like saying "use blue ink instead of pens."
Is here.
Anyone who is more legaleeze savvy care to comment on whether the previous brokenness has been fixed?
I don't know of any video editing solutions based on Real or NetShow. Real/Netshow are broadcast solutions which QuickTime does not even compete with (at least until next week).
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Actually, no. RTP and RTSP are IETF standards. Somebody needs to make a Linux viewer that is aware of these standards and then you can watch anything streamed from QTSS provided it is using a codec that you have. I don't think anybody is going to stream sorenson because it takes up too much CPU power. Most likely it will use MPEG1 or cinepak compression and those codecs can already be had.
Another point is that a lot of the people that will use QTSS probably won't care about watching it, or only care if Windows and Mac clinets can. They love having a streaming server based on open standards(RTP and RTSP) and not something fed from Real or MS. These sites are porn sites, and since we know no Linux users look at porn, then people at slashdot shouldn't worry, right?
Oh, and some news sites might like them too.
remy
http://www.mklinux.org
Does anyone also have any idea when Progressive Networks might be coming out with RealPlayer G2 version for Linux ?
Hey folks. I noticed this in the title of the original post, but it wasn't commented on.
The APSL has been changed to eliminate the termination clause that caused so much whining. It looks to be a whole lot more similar to the NPL now.
So much for Apple not listening.
Macintouch seems to have taken off the link, which was at the very top of their front page. Kinda curious why.
Either way, server is opensource, the viewers are not. I don't use Linux myself, but I believe that the Linux user base is big enough now to warrant a little more engineering effort on Apple's part to port it to Linux. Sorenson is an awesome codec and should be more widely available, free or not.
While I would love to see Apple develop QuickTime as an Open Source project, I cannot possibly believe that it would ever happen.
QT is one of Apple's few long-time cash cows; without QT for Windows and the MacOS, multimedia content would be seriously lessened, and I truly believe that Apple plows the money that QT garners back into it's research and development.
-The Cheese
I, for one, am very happy to see the changes in the APSL. They acknowledged their first license as a first attempt and requested input. After serious issues were raised (almost lost amongst the ranting and raving), they have made some significant changes. At first glance, they have cleaned up the definition of affected code, eased the reporting clause, and eliminated the export restriction. With time, we will get a better idea of if this fully complies with the idea of open source. In any case, I sincerely thank those that commented constructively on the license, and offered encouragement to Apple. I also hope this bodes well for things to come.
Quicktime is the only good thing apple has ever produced. Those bastards!
jimi-
pid (666) == MS kill -s 9 666
*bzzzt*
t ml and http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_2.ht ml are the press releases.- ----------------
Wrong. Apple has opensourced the QuickTime server and apparently rewritten the APSL. Version1.1? http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_1.h
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In the wonderful world of cats, Mr. Fus
Check out the
Apple Press Release Site for more information:
"Apple Releases QuickTime 4 Public Beta With Internet Streaming"
"Apple Introduces QuickTime Streaming Server Software-The First Open Server for Internet Streaming"
"Apple Updates Public Source License"