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New portable MP3 player from RCA
deicide wrote in to send us
a link to MP3.com and this story about
RCA's new MP3 Player. Its
called 'Lyra', and it is nice looking, and while it only holds
32 megs, it accepts external storage of up to 340 megs.
Hm... with 8 megs at the far-end (as in get out the soldering iron and the magnifying glass) of Pilot memory, I don't see the point of that. 8 minutes of music would hardly be worth it.
Yep but they also have 44,1khz audio output and most of them have a CompactFlash card slot too, which makes possible the use of 128 Mo cards ! 3Com said they don't want any card slot, which mean no MP3, ever :-(
RCA is just a name traded about like Jon Katz's eBay cyber-property.
It is misleading to use "RCA" as a real brand name. It is just a marketing badge, a label, an empty shell.
Its only claim to fame is that once upon a time there was a great technology company named Radio Corporation of America. That company no longer exists, but its good name and initials, like its chairs, desks, and broadcast towers, were sold off to the highest bidders.
We love RCA's Nipper. Here is a little more about Nipper.
> On casette tapes?
Yeah, so I can listen to Urusei Yatsura music in
my car. I sing along too, but I've got no idea
what I'm singing. Isn't the otaku life grand? ^_^
Don't forget the 2/4/6GB FireWire drives (and other peripherals) that are available now.
The MSRP that Diamond had for the 32MB Rio on its web site is $199.95. According to the story it will come with a 32M flash card, so I don't see what Diamond's VP was talking about $200 being a bad price point. It will also give RCA the flexibility to use higher capacity flash cards when it finally launches at the same price point. I also like the ability to use the IBM Microdrive. From what I've read on Slashdot, the RIO is only expandable with Diamond's memory cards. Too bad they didn't pick memory solution that is being used by multiple vendors.
The only thing that I don't like about the RCA product is that the flash cards would contain a key so that they could only be used in one player. What if the player breaks and a person buys a new one? Are the cards useless now or do we just have erase them and start over?
Also, since all of my MP3 collection is on linux, are there any linux tools to download the files to a RIO, MPMAN, or any other portable player?
They exist for the RIO and MPMan right now. I'm sure that if there is demand someone will use the existing code base to write in Lyra support.
Personally, I still want a CDR MP3 player. 640MB for $1.
Well at least they got this right. I've dreamed of a portable MOD/S3M/IT player for a long time now.
Now (as I've said every time this subject has come up on /.) if only somebody would come out with one that uses CD-R's...
: Another potential security feature, says Arras, will be embedding each flash card with a key that allows song playback on only one particular Lyra.
WARNING: Privacy / Freedom alert !!!!!!!!
The market place will not accept a bastardized product such as this. Look at what has happened to Circuit City with its DIXV video disk format? RCA's Lyra is doomed to be a failure. No self respecting geek will buy this product, and those few who do will be ridiculed by their peers.
In the Home Theatre front; the DVD vs. DIXV conflict has been a holy war, the arguments are all the same, it has been very emotional, and I see no reason why this battle isn't going to happen in the MP3 like consumer audio market.
: RCA's announcement, along with bow of RealJukebox, are being seen by many in the MP community as early indicators of a mainstream, commercial, "coming of age" for the format.
Nope, I see it as RCA's coming of failure format. When I first heard of DIVX two years ago I should of shorted Circuit City, I'm not going to make that mistake again. It's time to make some money, it's time to short RCA stock!
You would just succeed in taking a $500 camera and making a large $700 camera/mp3 player that will last about 1 hour on a set of batteries
$200 is way too high for the average high school student. I'm 15 and there is no way I'm willing to shell out
$200+ for an MP3 player. If I want a song to be portable, I'll just burn it on a CD....
Hold on there! I thought you were going to say "buy it from the lousy BMG music sevice." You have money for a burner but not a MP3 player. Come on.
Flexibility is the key to it all. With a CD burner, you can burn data and music, as well as both. You can play them *anyway*, with CD players being ubiquitous as they are. Not so for mp3 players. MP3 players are highly specific and might not warrant such a high price.
Allow the 260 to play MP3s?????
Maybe someone should suggest to Steve Jobbs that Apple create a portable entertainment appliance with a USB port, a blue and white translucent case, flash memory, an ultra small hard drive, 16bit audio, and a processor based on PPC architecture that could handle a port of palmOS, some kind of scaled-down MacOS, or a port of linux. This device could use some kind of graffiti input or pushbuttons labled "play", "skip", etc. I think there would be a market for a slightly more expensive palm version with better i/o.
IBM says limited release in 2nd half of 1999. From what I've seen, the price for a 340mb model will be around $200
--The no-memory option is a good idea. But with compression algorithms getting better and better, why not make the processor upgradable and leave the memory size fixed?
Oh, I forgot about planned obsolessence.
What I want is an mp3 player for the palm-pilot. I've been looking for a reason to buy a palm pilot, and mp3 could be it.
They say it is using CompactFlash cards (probably type II since it can accept the IBM 340 Mo hard drive which is a type II CompactFlash)
I totally agree with RCA not including memory on this player.
By not including memory the reduce the products pricing dependance on the volatile memory market. They can then bundle compact cards with the camera, small ones if the market is bad, big one if the memory market is good.
Hey sounds like exactly what they do with digital cameras.
Why is no one upset over Kodak not selling any memory built in to their camera's????
I own a DC210 (horrible pictures) and would love to be able to use the expensive Compact Flash memory to store MP3's when I'm not in vacation mode.
Sounds like this will be the perfect device for the legions of camera owners.
Brainstorm: How hard would it be to make a Digital Camera that plays mp3 files???? Think about it, they do Jpeg compression on the fly, MP3 decompression should be a breeze. Wonder if the Jpeg compression hardware could also be used to make a Mpeg recorder??????
If you're interested in building your own mp3 stereo player, send a message with subject subscribe to mp3stereo@itchy.wdc.com.
Compact Flash Type II cards are designed to work with PCMCIA Type II ports using an adapter. Just a half-step away from the mainstream, you can buy PCI cards that have one or two type II PCMCIA slots, enabling the dedicated (and flexible, since the ports are on the rear of your computer) geek to use these cards on a desktop pc. And if I recall correctly, this type of PCMCIA-docking station is available for USB from several vendors. (I'd be surprised if Belkin didn't make something of this sort.)
IBM states that external docking hardware is available for IBM's compactflash memory, which presumably means serial or USB. If not, IBM offers an adapter to put the CF type II cards into a PCMCIA type II slot, as well as Sandisk. Then you can use one of the more commonly-available PCMCIA docking ports. More info is here . jon (thoughts not in order because tie is too tight)
I think not...(*poof*)
Here's the specific wish list: A portable cd player that runs on 2AA's, plays audio cds, and if you pop in a data cd it reads a playlist file in the root directory, or expands the directory tree on the cdrom and develops a playlist in memory.
Sure, it defeats some of the advantages of a purely solid-state device, but I'd rather use the in-system memory+processor for playlists & playlist mods (imagine running a whole dj show from a portable), decoding modules, audio processing, etc etc.
-jon
I think not...(*poof*)
Check out these possibilities:
Envoy Data PCD-30-USB Series PCD-CF30-USB (external USB-to-CFII adapter designed for general use) $199 http://www.envoydata.com/pccard.html#USB
(These guys also make a bootable CFII--IDE port, which has some interesting possibilities for Linux on a CF card...)
Compact Flash Photoreader USB CFPRUSB (CFII reader designed for cameras, USB) $107 http://www.alix.com/products.htm
I have no experience with the software on either of these, so your mileage will vary when it comes to writing thru these devices.
-jon
I think not...(*poof*)
Even the first review of this product states that the plugins allow you to bypass the various music encryption/encoding schemes. How long will it be before the plugins are reverse-engineered and you can load an open-source module that allows you to play any format you please? Not long, I'll bet.
And as for the cry of privacy invasion, this product bears no resemblance to the DIVX nightmare -- with DIVX, the device uses your phone to report your activities & preferences to a central controlling authority. It won't operate unless it's connected. With a Lyra-like device, you have to opt-in to a scheme like this (loading and using a decoding module that requires an online transaction with some authority), and there's less opportunity for any funny business (transaction recording that's unauthorized by you) because the device is physically disconnected (no built-in modem or network connection lying in wait).
Personally, I like the hardware, and I especially like the idea that I will soon be able to use it with open-source software modules that put my privacy fears to rest.
I think not...(*poof*)
I don't understand how $200USD is a terrible pricepoint. If it is small enough, durable enough and low powered, people will be willing to pay.
Anything over $100USD is out of reach of the vast majority of high-school kids.
Now the RIO is a lousy sale. Expensive and very limited. The worst of both worlds. This thing has 1000% of the capacity and abilities for 200% of the price. I just hope the microdrive is low powered and durable...
If this thing had an IR port to do mass data transfers with my computer (or other recorders), it would be a great alternative to floppies/zip/whatever. I don't think the recording industry would like people swapping music over IR too much though.
I'm babbling again.
Watchoo talkin' about Willis? My PowerMac G3 already has an IBM copper chip in it. And it's about five months old. (good god this market is insane)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
There's a thread going on down below this about linking the RIO and the Lyra (a few others too) together and exchanging data. Having a portable *hard drive* would make this excessively simple. ;)
--
Only two questions for the hardware geeks out there - can this new portable have it's memory upgraded, and if so - what's the type of memory it takes?
Second question - how long until somebody creates an interface for exchanging data between mp3 players? I'd like to hook a Rio up to a Lyra (or whatever), and exchange data with it. Feasible?
--
in the article it stated that the lyra supports the IBM microdrive, is it shipping yet? how much is a 340mb card? wow, if it's under $75, i'm getting one of these. :))) 340 is good enough for me, ~5 hours? not bad :)
-- adraken
how long until somebody creates an interface for exchanging data between mp3 players? I'd like to hook a Rio up to a Lyra (or whatever), and exchange data with it.
You think the RIAA is having fits now, wait until someone comes out with a device that can share MP3's. Most hardware MP3 player makers are going to extreme lengths to make sure what you describe isn't happening. the Empeg car player comes to mind. They explicitly state that you can't send data from the device, because they don't want to encourage piracy.
Sure, you could probably homebrew a player that has upload capability, but don't expect to see it from a consumer electronics maker.
I don't know about the RIO, but I'd imagine it's the same way.
The RIAA must be absolutely fuming over this. Now that this data format has made the leap off of home computers, I think it'll be considerably harder to stop.
There's a couple of MiniDisc cameras that play audio MDs. Have a look at;
t able.html
http://www.hip.atr.co.jp/~eaw/minidisc/md_data_
A bit old now, and they don't appear to support USB, or anything useful, but it's a step...
Kris.
Win a Rio (or join the SETI Club via same link)
Well, I meant actual MPGE-1 Layer 4, not the stupid MP4. But the same goes for it, ACC, Microsoft's audio code, RealAudio, etc.
The rate at which memory prices fall is going to be a LOT faster than the rate at which compression algorithms get better. MP4 will be at best twice as good at compressing music as MP3 (and you can only compress things so far before you have no information left), but portable storage prices are going to drop much more than that, especially with the portable MP3 players and digital cameras driving demand. AMD announced earlier that by next year they'll have Flash RAM at $1/MB and IBM has those itsy-bitsy hard-drives we all want. Adding more processing power isn't going to bring as much of an advantage as adding more storage.
Greetings,
When I bought my Rio, people laughed, and said, 'Wait for real products, like Compact Flash cards, and hard drives, and CD-ROMs!'
My response then was, 'Without a market, nobody serious is GOING to make a real product.'
RCA is quoted here as saying that the Rio proved a market, and that's why they are going ahead and making it.
I still listen to my Rio, but I'm very aware that it's technology is not what it could have been.
You have to vote with your money in order to get the business world to wake up and listen, and I give major props to all who did.
MP3 isn't just a pirate music format, and that's something that major corporations are recognizing now, BECAUSE of people who put their money where their hopes were.
Huzzah to RCA, definitely, for making a real product, but just as many huzzahs to everyone who bought a Rio in order to help build a new market!
Cyberfox!
p.s. I have over 96MB of CompactFlash cards already, because I have a digital camera. The zero-memory issue is non-existent for me, as I'll just drop one of my 40MB CF card into it until I get a microdrive. I'll buy a Lyra as soon as it hits the shelves.
On cassette tapes?
Why not burn them to CD?!?! Is this too obvious of a suggestion? Or did I miss something?
"From a product planning standpoint we had to
we've looked out there to see what's going on withDiamond's player and others and it became clear to us that there were at least the beginnings of a market. As participants in audio hardware for the past 40-50 years, this is a read we didn't want to miss and one that we
actually felt we could lead to a certain extent."
It's intresting to note that its seem like many of the corporate decision makers are taking the leap of faith into this market. They, in some senses, are blindly following the "hype" more then prattical business research. I would hope this will lead to a large market of mp3 players, if only to reduce their cost.
I for one like the idea of holding 340+ megs of mp3, especially because still its only an option, that you can still get more or less storage depending on how much $ your willing to spend.
Choices are good.
I think he means recording the output of his sound card onto cassette tapes, and then playing them in a normal walkman.
Mike
I have a blue and white G3 Mac and my only choice in data xfer is USB (unless there's a Firewire mp3 player that I've missed). However, USB is faster than standard serial, and half the Wintel computers here at work have USB ports, so it's not as if there isn't infrastructure in place to use a USB-equipped MP3 player.
Nothing else, just venting.