Slashdot Mirror
Blaxxun VRML Browser Source Released
Cave Newt writes "The Web3D Consortium just released the source code to Blaxxun's CC3D VRML browser, which Blaxxun kindly donated in order to seed the development of a fully conformant, completely open and preferably multi-platform VRML browser. Pretty darned cool. "
So the Blaxxun open-source is a trap as far as I can tell. As a commercial vendor of 3D tech there is no way we are going to get tainted by their source code. Yikes! VRML has a lot of problems that stymied adoption: - browser too big, too slow, to hard to use - incompatibility between IE and Netscape versions - VRML is not a markup format like HTML, it's more like PDF, way too difficult and low level for mere mortals - creators of VRML never took Quake seriously That's why I created 3DML - its a lego approach to building 3D pages and the engine is game quality! Its not open source but the runtime and format are free - and it is easy to use (the format is XML compliant for the most part, except the nitpicky header type things). Anyway - check it out sometime and feel free to write to me - i didn't make an account but my email is pow@flatland.com - i'm the CEO of Flatland http://www.flatland.com
Oh pleeeeeese at least get the name right...VRML is the Virtual Reality Modeling Language. It never was and isn't anything like a "markup language".
Your coverage of banned places is too large. The places banned are the ones on the US export control list. The Blaxxun folks are just covering their tails with this sort of language. The reality is that the source is out there. How well does this restriction work for PGP? Here is the text of that part:
2.3 U.S. Export Restrictions. Web3D acknowledges that the Code and all related technical information, documents and materials are subject to export controls under the U.S. Export Administration Regulations. In connection with its rights hereunder, Web3D will: (a) comply strictly with all legal requirements established under these controls; (b) cooperate fully with blaxxun in any official or unofficial audit or inspection that relates to these controls; and (c) not export, re-export, divert or transfer, directly or indirectly, any such item or direct products thereof to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria or any national thereof or to any country or national thereof that is embargoed by Executive Order, unless Web3D has obtained the prior written authorization of blaxxun and the U.S. Commerce Department. Upon notice to Web3D, blaxxun may modify this list to conform to changes in the U.S. Export Administration Regulations.
-Alan Hudson
Chair Source Code Management Task Group
www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/source
Like every Internet-related startup, they had their followers in the beginning, but now, after 4 years, what have they achieved? Is anybody seriously using their stuff? Are they making any real money? Heck, they don't even have any noticeable press covering recently! And that's where "Open Source" comes into play. It won't save that company, but at least it created some press echo again.
The banned list is from Appendix A, section 2.1. It seems pretty clear that the countries I mentioned are the only ones that may legally download the source code. From the license:
2.1 The Web3D Consortium grants to you ?Licensee? a non-transferable, nonexclusive, royalty-free, limited license to use a copy of the VRML COMPONENT CODE in the United States, Canada, Japan, Australia and the European Union, exclusively for non-commercial use in connection with research and development. Licensee acquires no right, title or interest in or to the Licensed VRML COMPONENT CODE other than the limited rights granted in this License. All modifications, enhancements and bug fixes made by or for Licensee to the Licensed VRML COMPONENT CODE may not be offered for sale or reuse without including notification of all pertaining copyrights retained by copyright owners, including blaxxun interactive.
All the 3D authoring apps support VRML import and export. VRML is very successfult for that. All the 3D authoring vendors are scared as hell that their own proprietary formats will be usurped by a open source format. That is why VRML is still alive and that is why it is being silently but actively fought against by the 800 pound 3D authoring companies. Open formats ultimately will prevail. Stay tuned :-)
Will check into it. Thank you. I hate reading legalize!
Playfulness in 3D spaces - Why Quake, written to scratch an itch, is so much better than VRML, a solution in search of a problem, and what to do about i
I went to a day-long workshop at CASCON'97 which dealt with the use of communities in ecommerce. I'd think that VRML, intelligently used (and with properly wide net connections), would provide an excellent platform for ecommerce situations.
/.ers that looks down their nose at ecommerce), but a VR world has the capacity to be quite engaging, to build community and allow for both synchronous and asynchronous interaction.
Not that this is entirely good news for everyone (especially the segment of
No doubt people who want to sell us stuff (whether it's advertising pageviews - yes, those are bought and sold - or conventional goods and services) will jump on the bandwagon, since the longer they can keep you there means the longer that they have to pitch to you - and that means greater sales.
--
--
There is no premature anti-fascism. -Ernest Hemingway
>The site: www.cosmosoftware.com has been
;)
>down for months.
Like any large organisation, CAI (who own Cosmo Player now) has lots of people in it working on
different things in different ways.
It does seem like VRML is Too Open for some people
there right now (or something), but others are
working hard to get cosmosoftware back up again.
In the meantime, I run a mirror at www.karmanaut.com/cosmo/player/. I host versions for Mac and Windoze, and link to SGI for the IRIX version. Sure, it's a 3 MB download, but what do you expect for cyberspace? This is a bigger deal than some HTML parser, kids. How big is Q3Test for Linux? 33MB? I agree that crowbarring cyberspace into a browser plugin is a stupid idea - but we've got to start somewhere.
Where we go next is for another post
Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty.
When I first saw Doom-like first person shooters, I never expected to see games like we have today - I too thought that 3D was "just a trend"
Wow, I sure didn't think that way! When I first saw Wolfenstein 3D I saw the writing on the wall. Even at that point I had no problems connecting the dots to make the mental jump from Wolf3D to the stills that took days to render in POV RAY. Granted, I didn't expect 2D to drop off the map as fast as it has but I certainly didn't expect it to last forever.
Im still waiting for the day when ActiveWorlds http://www.activeworlds.com ports their browser to linuX. They have the server (like usual) but no client. I used to be into 3d/2d and VRML, I learned VRML1.0 and it was a big hype for a while, but then faded quick. Blaxxun actually used to be BlackSun interactive but got bought out.
First, while some of the license provisions are regrettable (most notably the ones that effectively exclude South America and much of Asia), the fact remains that just about any source is better than no source. There are plenty of people for whom having a professionally coded, general-purpose, 3D code base will be a huge boon regardless of the license provisions. For everyone else, the situation really hasn't gotten any worse--and yes, I am taking into account the other, truly Open Source VRML projects like Chris Morley's LibVRML97/lookat browser. I don't see a license like this drawing away more than a tiny trickle of OSS developers, if even that.
Second, while VRML certainly never took the world by storm and is distinctly less lively now than it was at its height a couple of years ago, it remains a very useful tool for prototyping, displaying and exchanging 3D objects. I've used it at work to create quick, animated mockups of internal projects, and at home to explore what an addition to my house might look like. I even used it to demonstrate some trig functions once. Was it necessary for that? No, but the ability to zoom way, way out really got the point across about asymptotes and infinities. Some of the best content I've ever seen has been 3D scientific visualizations--hurricanes, planetary magnetospheres, USGS elevation data, Mars Pathfinder, Tenochtitlan, you name it. And Floops, Driftwood, Dilbert and MODvr may never have had big audiences, but they were more compelling than almost any other content I've seen on the Net.
Finally, if you're looking for Snow Crash-like VR, there's no question that something like ActiveWorlds comes much closer to the mark than just about anything in VRML--if only because of the vast scale that's possible in a database-driven, custom 3D application like AW. But don't hold your breath waiting for a Linux client. The company only has a few developers, and last I checked, everything was very tightly tied to RenderWare. Possibly there's a Linux port of that (RW) in the works, but I haven't heard about it.
Anyway, while I don't think too much of the current Web3D efforts to create a VRML successor (X3D), I do appreciate that they've managed to get some source code out. Yes, it would be a whole lot cooler with a real OSS license (NPL, say), but it's a reasonable first step. And who knows, maybe blaxxun will ease up on the terms after getting some constructive (i.e., non-flaming) feedback. One can hope.
Greg Roelofs
-- GRR: Newtware, PNG Group, AlphaWorld Map, Info-ZIP, Google cluster infrastructure,
Nice to see people giving more stuff to the world.
It's yet another "Community Source" license. Lots of interesting little twists, though, including a ban on using the source code outside the USA, Eurpoean Union, Australia, and Japan. The rest of the world is SOL. There's an especially amusing addendum to the license that makes the Web3d consortium thought police for Blaxxun. Check out:
EUA, Web3d/Blaxxun Agreement, Amusing addendum
Subject says it all.
I was so excited that Cosmo's software and
source were going to be released, then SGI
sold them to Platinum, then Platinum got
bought out, and I was stuck without a good
VRML authoring kit.
It's good the the Blaxxun source is published.
It'll mean better vrml browsers on any platform
that has open source coders. Blaxxun's software
seems pretty good, but I don't have much
experience with it.
I'm just glad that SOMETHING is happening in the
VRML world.
J05H
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
It is nice of them to release the source code but, to tell the truth, I have never seen anyone use VRML outside of sites of people who either develop or are somehow connected with VRLM. One can find JavaScript, Java, Flash and similar technologies all over the Internet - not so with VRML.
Can we finally say, the technology did not work out, forget it, try something else... ?
Blaxxun probably released it in an attempt to subvert mindshare away from the OpenVRML group and others now starting up that want to make a truly open source VRML browser.
As for "the Web3D Consortium", they will cut a deal with anyone who will pay their bills or keep them in the drivers seat in behalf of their corporate sponsors: Microsoft, Blaxxun, SGI, Sony, Apple, ect.
They had lofty goals. Politics and money have made it impossible for any of them to be acheived. This deal is no exception.
I have yet to see a single good use for VRML. This may be due to the fact that there aren't any good browsers for linux, but i've seldom run across anything other than a novelty site that even has VRML on it. Though I'm sure I'll be proved wrong...
See you, space cowboy...
I'm surprised by so many "hey, wasn't VRML that thing that didn't work out?" comments here.
Yes, VRML was overhyped to the maximum, so much that most everyone started hating it; but if you consider it, VRML _is_ a good idea done _right_.
Just think of today's market in consumer computer graphics. Current low-cost graphics cards for standard PCs have the 3D processing power that was exclusively available to high end graphics workstations only a very short time ago. The vast majority of today's computers are equipped with 3D graphics cards. And the only product research made by graphics card manufacturers is in the 3D sector.
And of course the games market, that is driving this technology. There is practically _no_ 2D game available today. When I first saw Doom-like first person shooters, I never expected to see games like we have today - I too thought that 3D was "just a trend".
I'm pretty sure that there will be a need for 3D in internet applications and I am glad that VRML is here already as a working solution. It's not as important as its inventors claimed it would be, but it's certainly more than "just a trend" and surely more than a failure.
------------------
You may like my a cappella music
...but I tend to place VRML on that wonderful scrapheap that includes Push Technology, Home Video Phones, DIVX, Betamax, and other overhyped but ultimately rejected technologies.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
The license text as pointed out by reverse solidus actually makes it sound like they just want everybody else to do the work for them. Not only is it not "open source", but if you change anything, they have a right to that change and can then sell the enhanced code with no obligation to you.
Drop them an email and let them know how you feel about being used.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
Should I buy my 3d glasses now?
I spent quite a bit of time looking at VRML. .wrl extension. Typically this 'world' is loaded into your VRML browser, and then rendered as appropriate. .wrl file from the server and sends ya over there.
.wrl file. (I said almost).
In a word, it sucks and here's why.
The concept behind VRML is exactly that of HTML. It's a markup language. While this is sufficient for stuff you read and browse through, it's not sufficient for an interactive environment.
VRML comes in world files which generally have a
If you hit a particular link, it loads up another
While this method is fine for web pages.. it's *not* fine for an interactive 3D environment. That's the problem... you need something more interactive than a highly-static format.
There are *some* facilities for doing things dynamically with VRML, but from what I saw, they were mainly hacks with javascript etc that look like they weren't really planned during the original design.
The sum of this analysis is that taking what works for web browsing and just 'doing it in 3D' is not the right philosophy.
Here's a fair example, you can't do anything dynamic that would require changes to the wrl file loaded in the browser. To do that.. you have to reload the wrl file... which is unreasonable.
Almost any sort of behavior the objects you create are going to have... has to be predefined in the
VRML is unpopular for a reason.
Assuming this event kick-starts a wave of VRML development now that hackers can play with source, what's there to do with it? Build it into some games? I'm not trying to poor-mouth Blaxxun; I just don't see why people will think this is will lead to delivery of cooler 3-D imagery over the Net. Correct my ignorance, please.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
Ok, I went to Netscapes plugin list to get
VRML.
Has a listing for WIRL by Vream.
tried the link to example virtual worlds
pulled up a porn site, and I'm at work!
damn, damn I say
I guess vREAM appealed to the new URL owner.
VRML was released quite some time ago, and as distressing as it is, the people once again have been lead astray. Why are things efficient only when the rest of the world uses it? VRML would have been one of the biggest break throughs in internet publishing, but what happened? I think the grasp of the marketting giants choked it to death. More than 4 years ago I purchased a book that taught me how to develope VRML, and I figured within about a year, that's all I'd see... so why not? What happened? We can't cope with Virtual Reality?
At some point in time I lost line of VRML. It became a nothing. I was too consumed with the latest version of HTML and the most up to date browsers that, not surprisingly, have created their own versions of HTML. Why when something is multi-platform do they have to tinker with it so that it truely isn't? Are they showing us who's boss? VRML should have been a break though... but it was a flop. It's all about marketting... or maybe it's just that people aren't ready... most people never are so I think the most logical would be the best answer.
This stuff is old new... throwing a bunch of kindling into the fire that went out won't start it up again.
on the sixth day God created man.
on the seventh day, man returned the favor.
VRML is a fairly pointless technology (or lack thereof). It makes you wonder, have the VRML guys ever actually SEEN Quake?
What, exactly, is VRML supposed to accomplish?
how could anyone really think vrml would take off given the large data sets it required (for anything useful) that is.... here's a company that's thinking in the right direction... http://www.perilith.com/projects/
I'm afraid while lot's of people where poring over the latest vrml specs (myself included) they might just have seen the flash out of the corner of their eyes of game companies creating realtime 3d game engines that are turning the game business ( and more traditional business ) on it's head.
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
This is one of the apps i have been missing badly for a long time.
;)
Despite what many people think, VRML2 is actually a pretty advanced, extensible and downright useful file format.
It is node-based and therefore supports complex activity. The way VRML 2 works reminds me a lot of the way high-end 3D programs like Maya are architected.
While i haven't used it much recently (since i haven't been able to get a browser for Linux), i think it is actually a really good foundation for a pervasive 3D imaging model.
It is based on ASCII text, which might make some of the hardcore go 'pfft', but theres no reason that it can't incorporate binary file formats, like BSP trees using EXTERNPROTOs.. the code to handle the binary data, if it is defined in the EXTERNPROTO can be dynamically loaded at runtime, that is a VRML browser can be extended in any way you like through a standard, documented mechanism.
take a look at what LivePicture did with their Panoramas - these were implemented as VRML2 EXTERNPROTOs, which were displayed in a cut-down VRML2 browser, and if they had finsihed what they started, this type of object (now very popular) could have been displayed without any extra effort by all compliant VRML2 browsers.
While the Quake/Unreal game engines are wonderful things, which support excellent performance, they are limited in many ways, and just aren't as approachable to the newbie as VRML2 is.
I can sit down and build a VRML2 world in an ASCII text editor, its a much more daunting task to make a Quake Level, even with emacs
Anyway, i strongly support this move, but would call for Blaxxun to go GPL goddamnit. All these 'Community Source' licenses just make developers nervous.
The GPL protects Blaxxun, by making sure their competitors can't directly profit (in a financial sense) from your generosity and effort. Plus, they get to say they were the first to support a truly open and cross-platform web standard. VRML won't go anywhere without a community, and if they want adoption by the Linux community, then i'd say the only way is with the GPL.
Otherwise, this will just incite the GNU people to write a truly free alternative e.g. GNOME vs KDE, and lets face it, nobody really wants to see another attempt to reinvent the VRML browser.
my 2c
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
This is one of the apps i have been missing badly for a long time.
;)
Despite what many people think, VRML2 is actually a pretty advanced, extensible and downright useful file format.
It is node-based and therefore supports complex activity. The way VRML 2 works reminds me a lot of the way high-end 3D programs like Maya are architected.
While i haven't used it much recently (since i haven't been able to get a browser for Linux), i think it is actually a really good foundation for a pervasive 3D imaging model.
It is based on ASCII text, which might make some of the hardcore go 'pfft', but theres no reason that it can't incorporate binary file formats, like BSP trees using EXTERNPROTOs.. the code to handle the binary data, if it is defined in the EXTERNPROTO can be dynamically loaded at runtime, that is a VRML browser can be extended in any way you like through a standard, documented mechanism.
take a look at what LivePicture did with their Panoramas - these were implemented as VRML2 EXTERNPROTOs, which were displayed in a cut-down VRML2 browser, and if they had finsihed what they started, this type of object (now very popular) could have been displayed without any extra effort by all compliant VRML2 browsers.
While the Quake/Unreal game engines are wonderful things, which support excellent performance, they are limited in many ways, and just aren't as approachable to the newbie as VRML2 is.
I can sit down and build a VRML2 world in an ASCII text editor, its a much more daunting task to make a Quake Level, even with emacs
Anyway, i strongly support this move, but would call for Blaxxun to go GPL goddamnit. All these 'Community Source' licenses just make developers nervous.
The GPL protects Blaxxun, by making sure their competitors can't directly profit (in a financial sense) from your generosity and effort. Plus, they get to say they were the first to support a truly open and cross-platform web standard. VRML won't go anywhere without a community, and if they want adoption by the Linux community, then i'd say the only way is with the GPL.
Otherwise, this will just incite the GNU people to write a truly free alternative e.g. GNOME vs KDE, and lets face it, nobody really wants to see another attempt to reinvent the VRML browser.
my 2c
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
That wasn't a useful point at all.
You don't blame manufacturers of kitchen knives for domestic murder. A nuclear missile can be used to deflect an Earth-destroying asteroid as well as to perform genocide.
The technology is neutral. Where blame is required, place it where it is due, squarely on the people that put technology to bad use.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
I've always found VRML to be the 3D equivalent of HTML; Give somone a document in HTML and you know they are going to be able to view it, no matter what OS they are using. Same thing for VRML if you need to share 3D objects. As was mentioned above, it is especially useful for scientific visualisation, especially when you can never be sure that your collaborators are using the same modelling/visualisation package as you are. Think of it as a lowest common denomenator.
a rch.html
(shameless plug): I've got some VRML molecules on my web page
http://www.biochemistry.bham.ac.uk/gcoates/rese
The applications of VRML I've seen tend to be a bit weak on content. I'm not really sure if it is a problem inherent with VRML or simply the development of VRML applications. I think it is great to have a 3D interface standard that can easily plug into, say OpenGL, but I'm not sure this has the features to really move the field. How is this solution going to change this perception? Can it?
-- Moondog
Betamax was never overhyped, which was the problem. If anything, it was VHS was overhyped in some stores as being "identical" in quality to Beta.
Well, first of all, for any technology to take off on the web it has to support linux.
Now it is interesting that SGI doesn't complain to CA (the buyer's of PLATINUM) that cosmo isn't available to the people (that was the intention). The site: www.cosmosoftware.com has been down for months.
I do believe that CA feels threatened with VRML technology, although they probably purchased platinum for their autosys product.
Anycase, 3D will not spread until the interface (GUI) is 3D, not just some plugin for a web browser.
Ive been using blaxxun since late august after a friend brought the disk back from siggraph. Actually kinda neat. "Their" world is kinda restrictive, (cant design your own furniture right now, or your own avatar) but not bad for free. You can both "walk" around and "fly". There are communities based on interests (like the one Im in, WiccaII). Within the communities it can be a mature and fun environment. In the plaza its IRC at its worst. You can move around 2d or switch to 3d if you want to waste the bandwidth - and sometimes its worth it. Wouldnt you all love to explore Robs virtual house?* It really DOES make me think of Snowcrash, and really, if we do that someday, we have to start SOMEWHERE...
(*of course he'd just add a script to put a broom on us so we clean his house while we look for his old copies of Hyperbole...)
I really don't feel like creating an account so "coward" it is. I quickly got excited about the Blaxxun announcement because the freaks that keep playing hot potato with Cosmo seem to treat it like a perverted uncle. I didn't think we were the only ones leveraging existing 3D content with VRML but from the sounds of it, we might be...
Armed with a simple IE5 browser, a CosmoPlayer plug-in and the login info below, you can say, "oh, yeah, ok, I guess that works"
http://cap.sweets.com
CAP Products>>Offices Online>>Demo
user: pmoore-d
pass: cap
Add some stuff to the cart, click on its teeny graphic, choose the 3D button(pause for plug-in), click in the viewer to fling it around...
I'd be interested in your complaints-
paul_moore@mcgraw-hill.com
For another approach(not VRML) try:
styleclick.com
eonreality.com
It's great to see the Blaxxun people finally come to their senses. I've been mailing them every year for some three years running now, asking about Linux support.
BTW, The Blaxxun community server was ported to Linux YEARS ago, and they were always very upfront about it, recommending the Linux version over the NT version.
http://web3d.about.com/library/weekly/aa100699.htm
Sandy Ressler
(Web3D Guide for About.com)
Sandy Ressler Focus on Web3D About.com http://web3d.about.com
I have to say I can't quite agree with you in thinking that everything is (and should) move to 3D. While games are probably the sector to most benifit from a 3D view, some have been hindered by it. Take Daggerfall for example. It was a brilliant concept of a truly non-linear RPG, but it was ruined by a cumbersome 3D interface that made the dungeons hellishly tedious. It would have been much better served by an isometric view.
Oh, speaking of isometric views... you say, "There is practically _no_ 2D game available today"? I would point out that the best selling game (both recently, and ever) is Starcraft... very 2D. The same can be said for Diablo, CIV(all of them), and many others. They are good games because they focus more on ease of user interface, and playability than eye-candy. Because of this, they all out sold Wolfenstein, and they all out sold Quake.
Now, for those of you who may have suffered at the hands of unnecessarily 3D games (i.e Daggerfall), how would you feel about being unable to see the relevant portions of your web page or spreadsheet, without having to rotate it just so? I personally hate that sort of thing. So while VRML may be pretty cool, I sure doubt it will be replacing 2D web browsing anytime soon.
I'm a gnu world man.
FYI - There are other people working on free 3d Tech .. under much less restrictive licenses that the blaxxun people - in fact some have postulated that the blaxxun source release was infact made in reponse to the Gel release at siggraph, so its suprising to see no mention of Gel here. Gel - http://gel.urstudios.com (moving soon to http://www.gel3d.org) is "intended as a set of technology for implementing new and interesting things - not as a set of protocols". It takes a very different approach from VRML in very many fields (peer-peer networking, etc), but it would certainly be practical to implement a VRML browser using the technology. The license is also extraordinarly unrestrictive.
(Shout3d is basically a 3-d viewer in Java that you can write scripts for inside the Java. Its Only about 40k and there's none of those huge downloads like the 5mb+ for VRML viwers. [THAT was the real reason VRML was never used widely. BESIDES the fact it never even worked on my computer.]) Anyway, VRML was a really cool idea, but it had its problems. Among those already remarked is of course, capitalism, which the USA has exceded greatly in converting the world to(except for some Moslims...and what countries do we have the most problems with?). Another was the fact it was static and the bastards couldn't be changed. Finally, learning is just too hard for common fools. Did you see any "basic editors" lying around the web for VRML scripts? Without those for HTML, betcha 50% of the web wouldn't be here (not that we would actually miss most of 'em anyhow). Yeah, yeah, flash don't have any basic editors, but the download was only a meg and the stuff you could do with it compared to html is/was tremendous. Guaranteed you make an "basic editor" in which you submit 2 or 3 pictures, make a 3-d image (can't think of a better word), and post it freely (and without legal repercussions) would skyrocket VRML usage. (all it would take is ONE of those damned AOL forwards--look at hamsterdance.com). Law or World #2 - Anybody will go with any sceme if it allows them to be both more comfortable AND lazy. 'nough of ranting. Anyhow, VRML is a dirty word now and making the source-code from blaxxum open-source don't wake this corpse. Probably, blaxxum just wanted to see if they could pull off a little revival before WEb3d consortium(BTW why don't they just say group? Do all "educated" people feel the need to make long words?) makes another company's plan the official VRML environment. BTW the VRML name is being changed to X3d. -Keirian "If Finnish people can talk while they breath in(you gotta see this), I can rant while I."
"Of course I have a problem!! I'm talking to you after all...BAM!"
No Mac browser for a long time (and this still applies)
Overhyped. A bit more complex than it needed to be.
MS hype about thier 3d interface, which now no longer exists.
I don't see it for games, games have thier own high-performance 3d engines.
Chat. 3D chat. Hype.
Science and Art. Yes.
It is a really good file format. You can make prototypes with real world names so that groups of users can write vrml by hand (or by script).
I don't want to write in Java3d. I want to write the visualizations.
The X3d will hopefully lower some of the requirements.
The concept behind VRML is exactly that of HTML. It's a markup language
It's not a markup language. The 'M' in VRML is 'Modeling'. Virtual Reality Modeling Laguage. What would it mark-up? It began as a standard way to describe objects in 3D and proceeded from there. Proceeded a lot, actually.
There are *some* facilities for doing things dynamically with VRML, but from what I saw, they were mainly hacks with javascript etc that look like they weren't really planned during the original design
This isn't the case either. VRML's design has the basic things that you need to get things done in 3d: interpolators, sensors for spherical, planar, and cylindrical mouse movement, collision sensors, proximity sensors, time sensors and more, nicely set up in an event-driven model. Many interactions don't even require any code. Map a plane sensor to a position interpolator and you can move things around by clicking and dragging.
Now while its true that VRML does not have its own programming language, it does provide a specific interface to code 'bits', the SCRIPT node. This is as designed, mostly because VRML existed before Java was really strong. Some people use javascript (yuck, but simple) some folks use Java, some use C++, but if your browser supported it (a big if) you could use perl or smalltalk or anything. Kind of nice, in my opinion.
Here's a fair example, you can't do anything dynamic that would require changes to the wrl file loaded in the browser
This just isn't true. Your code nodes (in whatever language) can add and remove things from the scene at will, resize them, move their individual points to morph them, etc.
I believe you must've looked at the early VRML, VRML 1.0. This is equivalent to looking at the first release of Java and saying, "oh, its all bollocks" and never looking again.
So why isn't VRML the next big thing? Well, there's several theories, Blaxxun's attacking the most widely held: no good browsers. Java's the de facto standard for scripting info in a VRML browser, and there are all kinds of interesting things you could do, but almost no browser completely supports the VRML97 specification AND the Java specification. There are VRML browsers written using Java3D, but they are largely incomplete, and a bit slow.
Some folks have also said that VRML is something of a solution in search of a problem. What would you do with VRML on the web? Yeah, there's lots of cool stuff, but very few of them pay well, and others (like online gaming) require fast, efficient browsers, and really don't benefit from the openness of the standard.
Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
I guess I'll have to add this to the long list of games and apps that wont be able to run on my Linux box because I don't have a 3dfx compatable card. I like Linux, but its 3D support really blows. Here's hoping Xfree 4.0 will improve things...
VRML actually stands for Virtual Reality Modelling Language, not Markup Language. Just a little thing.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
- When it first came out the penetration of 3d accelerated hardware was minimal
- Downloads were slow when VRML first arrived - I remember the huge difference when I first tried VRML on an SGI on an ethernet.
- Any idiot can write text to make a HTML file, 3d stuff is much harder
- It's not well integrated with the browser: few will use it if it requires a 4MB download (and reboot under windows).
- So far the only real applications of 3d are games, modelling, and CGI for movies. Hopefully someone can come up with a decent 3d interface. Part of this is also the development of a good 3d manipulator - the 3d version of the mouse.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
I moderated this down because the link is to a kiddy porn site. The author had an interesting point, but he/she could have made it without explicitly linking to the stuff.