Slashdot Mirror
Open Source or Commercial WWWBoard Software?
"Aside from the security concerns of the script, we are having problems with the script supporting that many users (up to 30 to 50 concurent, during peak times). During peak times, we can get 3 to 6 requests a second, which is fine for veiwing static pages with our configuration, but when multiple people try to post, the script can't support it. It sits on a T-1 all by itself on a Cobalt RAQ2, with 256 MB RAM. I like the "slash" package, but I've not been able to make it run on the RAQ2 just yet.
I'd like to "Ask Slashdot", what software/ hardware combination would you recommend? Is there a way to modify Slash so that the main articles are generated by the users, instead of submitted by the moderators? And lastly, has anyone been able to get Slash to run on a Cobalt box."
Anyone have other alternatives for WWWBoard software? I'm sure there are plenty out there, but how well do these packages work (especially under heavy loads)?
Browse their example.
I would definitely recommend this. We used to run UBB but found it too slow especially when searching for anything. Made the switch to the latest version of WWWThreads(commercial) and haven't had a problem since. Seems to handle the load well, especially since it can run underr mod_perl and supports a SQL backend. And our users love it, because it has a ton of features.
W3T is indeed promising but its database design needs to be cleaned up quite a bit to support heavy traffic.
I've bought w3t. I've spent a lot of time modifying the data schema and streamline SQL calls. Basically rehauled it. The product is good, but needs to clean up the database schema to be a ligitimate DB application.
I find it weird that everyone is bring up Perl message board software, but don't mention that mod_perl is essentional for high-performance Perl CGI. Now, the original poster didn't mention whether he was using mod_perl, but since he/she was using a RAQ, I suspect not. Perl + mod_perl will be a LOT faster!
UBB is a very popular board that is worth a look. It has a freeware version as well as a commercial version. There are many 'hacks' available to customise it. The url is UltimateBB.com
I had a look at this last night. It is indeed worth a look although it seemed quite slow. It does support mod_perl which should speed the thing up. Sleep called so I didn't investigate more. . .I try that this weekend. If we use it it'll need to be modified to suite our needs. The code looks pretty clean so it should be easy.
I'll be looking through all these products in the next week or so. I keep everyone posted
I've just installed this and it seems to be a solid package. I don't know how it'll stand up under load but it runs under mod_perl. Worth a look...
A set of Perl scripts, formerly GPL (3.5.1 was the last GPL version AFAIK) but now commercial. You can find the GPL version out and about. For your traffic, you might want to pay and get some support though. Either way, it's pretty slick.
www.wwwthreads.org
Chris
M-x auto-bs-mode
I'm on the O'Reilly WebBoard team. I wrote the NNTP component. Glad to hear you found it scalable. Personally I don't know much about the web interface, having joined only to do the NNTP component, but it looks like a good product.
However there are a couple of things to consider:
1. The web interface is single threaded. This hasn't affected the performance for most people, but it is an issue (one that is being thought about for the next release).
2. It uses 3 horrible components (not my choice): VB for WebBoard web interface, MS SQL server (5 user edition) - bad because it means I can't properly cache statements and do some nice things I'd like to, and finally - NT. However I developed the NNTP component on Linux so there's no reason you can't run that separately on a Linux box.
However I would very much like to hear back from anyone using WebBoard (as would the rest of the team - we're a very small group), especially feedback on the NNTP component.
Matt.
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
A lot of people like something that just works out of the box and doesn't give them a lot of trouble. Obviously that wasn't the case with the free solution that the original poster was trying, although I can't speak for all free systems.
It's the same reason some people still pay for O'Reilly's WebSite Pro - unlike IIS (and other free NT web servers) it just plain works.
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
I did buy a copy of Web Board earlier this year. The performance on a dual PII 233 with 512MB RAM (Dell Poweredge 2200) was horrible. There was a nasty issue where Web Board virtually locked up one of the processors. There were also other issues relating to performance.
:)
:) (I'm trying, OK :))
OK. I don't know if that was Web Board 3, but it probably was since 4 is very recent. One of the major reasons for WB4 was performance improvement and ability to do load distribution across multiple servers. However it's sadly still NT and still VB and still single threaded - I don't have a control over those issues.
Support at the ORA site was anything but but helpful, denying any problems, until some other posts meticulously detailed the issue. Then there was no comment. It's a classic case for Open Source, as there were several on the forum with the chops to take a look and fix what was wrong, but the nature of closed software prohibited such.
I can't argue with this. It is unfortunately the nature of closed s/w. I wish I were in a position to change it. However I'd still like to be paid for the work
I'm probably not the only one with whom the irony is not lost on the fact the Tim O'Reilly, while lately pushing OSS models, still has Web
Board under an commercial license, for a single platform.
I see the irony there too. It's not just WB either - ORA have WebSite Pro too. One of the key things I had to keep fighting was support for the NNTP server on "alternative" platforms too - it's developed on Linux - I don't have a single NT box. It's also developed on a Sybase backend rather than the stinky MSDE they deliver on. But hey - maybe they'll see the error of their ways soon enough
The real problem now, is how to deal with the nearly 30,000 messages in the archive since January.
If you decide to try out the latest WB, contact me directly (matt @ sergeant.org - minus the spaces) 'cos we're working on a WWWBoard->WebBoard conversion script (there are a number of people in your shoes).
Good Luck with your search.
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Secondly, Slash should serve well as a BBS program. Actually, why would you want the main topics to be entered by the user? If you treat each "topic" as being a section on the board, and the "comments" area as the actual BBS itself, it is much more natural, the way it is.
Thirdly, Squishdot is starting to shape up nicely. That might be worth a squint.
Lastly, optimise EVERYTHING as best you can. There is no point in upgrading the software and/or hardware, if you end up running only just about as well as you did to start with. Free up as much RAM as you physically can, and squash any compiled code into as small a space as you can, whilst keeping the speed optimisation as high as possible.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Oh, and you might have better work with Slash 0.3-3.7 than the stock versions that Rob puts out. Those versions are quite buggy. Oh, btw, there's also NNTP support for Slash.
I'm the one who put out newsd and the 0.3-3.7 tarball. I also seem to be making the most noise about adding functionality to Slash on slash-help. In fact, someone just offered to host a Slash CVS repository for me and I'm forking the code (see slash-help - especially the recent YA0.4W thread - for the gory details of why.)
(I've sent a copy of this reply to the original poster via email since I don't know if he's still reading this story or not.)
You need to get and install Zope first then add
Squishdot as a module. Works grand and straight out of the box but you need to decide you need Zope first as this is a strategy level thing really.
I know that you actually meant www.phorum.org
--
Notepad specialist & FAT administrator, group training available Fabian Rodriguez
Notepad specialist & FAT administrator, group training available
I would not be one to ignore the wishes of the users, but my experience has been that the essentially linear organizational model used by Web Crossing (and the Well, and Motet, and the Citadel BBSes) generally leads to more intelligent sustained conversation than organizational models that encourage branching.
Threaded systems -- and Slashdot is one -- are good for post-and-response environments. You can see how that shapes the conversation here. It's great for Q&A, far superior to linear or room-based conversations, but interactions tend to burn out fairly quickly.
So I think a decision on Web-based conferencing software turns on your goals. If you're trying to build a very tight community where the users really get to know one another, the linear model is superior. If you're putting the Pet Vet online for questions and answers, a threaded model works better.
The best compromise I've seen was the proprietary Interchange system, developed by Ziff-Davis in 1993-1995. Its discussion model was fundamentally linear but allowed for easy branching, either at the decision of a participant or through action by a sysop. That helped to sustain a focused conversation while accommodating the reality of topic drift and tangental responses.
Whatever you do, demand that your software keep track of what the user has already seen. It's sad that so many "commercial" packages these days can't match the basic functionality that Fido bulletin boards provided back in the dark ages.
I can't seem to get a response at all.....
eThreads is GPL'ed forum software written in Perl. It uses a SQL database to store all forum and post information (which allows the scripts to be run on multiple servers using a shared SQL backend... great for redundancy and load balancing). It supports multiple forums (and forum trees for easy browsing), and each forum can be completely customized (HTML templates for each forum are stored in the db and then post values are parsed in at view time).
I realize I'm a little biased (I did write the thing, after all), but I've found eThreads a lot easier to use than anything else I've seen.
http://ethreads.com
e;
I went through the same process recently, looking at everything I could find to move from UBB. Whatever I tried came up short on performance or features except O'Reilly software's WebBoard.
.ZIP digests, and NNTP support. Administration is web-based and well implemented.
I know this package is outside your existing platform, but I've found it reliable and extremely resilient under a heavy load (1000 posts with binary attachments per day). It's also ready to go out-of-the-box and scriptable. Customization is as easy as HTML.
It comes with real-time paging, a variety of chat features, SMTP notification with listservs and
Drawback is the cost: about $1000 for the software plus an NT box. You don't need to fool with IIS as it runs best with the included web server.
If you're looking for software, there's lists at these two places.
.com also has a very large index of free scripts.
The CGI Resources List lists a whole slew of message board CGI scripts in perl.. some are free.. some aren't. Check it out
TheSripts
Another one that you really might want to look at is Web Crossing It's not freeware, but it can handle a very large number of users and posts, and runs really well. See Builder Buzz to see it in use.
There are two very good php based message boards that work with a variety of databases.
phorum and w-agora
www.phorum.com
http://w-agora.araxe.fr/
because they are both database based, they hold up very well under heavy conditions.
I prefer to use w-agora becuase it is extreamly easy to customize, supports multiple forums, and even multiple sites (for virtual servers).
- daniel
- daniel
Turn off your computer and go outside
There is a great set of Perl scripts called Sporum, available at http://www.smallpig.net/sporum/. From the Sporum web site:
Sporum is one of free web-based dicussion board software package available on the internet. What sets the Sporum apart from other online bulletin board systems is its unique interface, extensive administrative features, and easy installation procedure. You can read through the features here and check out our demo site to see the many ways which Sporum has been implemented.
Sporum is at version 1.2b3 and is definitely worth the time to download and install it.
darren
(darren)
First, the original script has been in use for more than four years, with scores of mods. Only over the past year or so, has it shown any signs of wear. The tradeoff with using Matt's script, even modified, is in admin flexiblity and the several well known hacks that can wipe out the message board. Hence the reason I haven't posted the URL here. The last thing I need is a bunch of fucking script kiddies running over there trying to topple the board.
I did buy a copy of Web Board earlier this year. The performance on a dual PII 233 with 512MB RAM (Dell Poweredge 2200) was horrible. There was a nasty issue where Web Board virtually locked up one of the processors. There were also other issues relating to performance.
Support at the ORA site was anything but but helpful, denying any problems, until some other posts meticulously detailed the issue. Then there was no comment. It's a classic case for Open Source, as there were several on the forum with the chops to take a look and fix what was wrong, but the nature of closed software prohibited such.
I'm probably not the only one with whom the irony is not lost on the fact the Tim O'Reilly, while lately pushing OSS models, still has Web Board under an commercial license, for a single platform.
Cost is another issue. Counting NT, SQL Server, Web Board, the cost was near US$3000.00, for software alone. Add hardware and support, plus Resource Kit docs, and it's around US$7000, or US$8000.
The cost of the current solution, including hardware, is about US$2500.00, plus another US$500 or so in ORA books (I DO like the ORA books and CD kits) Our users perceive our current solution as faster, easier to use. We're all about the users, because they are the one's that make it happen.
I've got a few solutions being tested, with the most promising three being W3T (deployed since June), Bazaar (went up two days ago, still beta, but GPL and very promising) and one I'm putting up right now, RPG (suggested by another /.er)
The real problem now, is how to deal with the nearly 30,000 messages in the archive since January.
Dave
I didn't choose NNTP for a variety of reasons. Usenet was out of the question. That was about the time that the public started to find Usenet and we all know what happened after that. NNTP, evenon a private server, isn't as flexible as a Web based board to administer. This is a tightly controled forum, though not fully moderated. There are also user configuration issues to deal with, as an NNTP client is not quite as ubiqutious as a browser. Browsers are easy for the pariticipants. We are finding these same user configuration issues, with IRC for our live chat. We have to remember, not everyone is "hooked up", when it comes to using computers. For the widest audience, we have to cater to the lowest common denominator..
Dave
We've narrowed it down to a few options, in order of preference.....except for Zope, they are all operating on a testing system, still behind the firewall. Zope will go up in the next few hours (if I can get it to run on the RaQ2.... =:-0 )
1)Zope based Squishdot/Confra/Zthreads type solution. Probably the best bet for the future. If I get stuck, I can hire DC to help. Anyone that might disagree, I'd love to hear your opinion. Downside, I don't know Python....but that will change. Time for another visit to Fatbrain.......
2)Bazaar, rewriten from GPL W3T. Still largely alpha. Has a long way to go, and a limited development community. If I were a better coder (or even could be considered a coder), this might make more sense.
3)RPGBoard. Best of the non data base perl scripts, without a doubt. Fast, well documented, good feature set. I could deploy in just a few hours, and have a robust working site. Downside, I'd perfer something with a more broad developer base, extensable in a more modular fashion.(though SineSweeper seems like a cool guy)On the plus side, depending on how well Zope and Bazaar do in the next few weeks of testing, RPG may very well get the nod. It's mature, and stable with solid performance. Though might not be the best long term solution, it works well, right now.
Out of the running.......
Slash....poorly documented, not updated in a timely fashion, and it looks like there might be a fork coming. This is a caveat of Open Source where the community is more into public development than the maintainers. Attitudes from the maintainer (that would be Taco) such as "everytime someone asks about the next release, I delay it another day", speak volumes. I wish the forkers much luck, though I'd be inclined to use a Zope based solution for this type of thing. Instead of forking something that the maintainer isn't really interested in, a better use of energy would be to devote it to another project.....like Zope.
W3T....Scream seems like a cool guy, but the performance is anything but fast. I applaud the work he has done, but based on the comments of others here, and some DBAs I know, W3T code is still too bloated and not optimized, causing performance issues on busy sites. Maybe now that it's commercial, some of these issues can be addressed.
Thanks again, you've all been a big help.
Dave
Take a look and let me know what you think. At the moment account creation is required but the only reason I haven't changed that is because no one has asked me to, it should only take a minute or two :)
Also, another of my projects Dear Diary if anyone wants to take a look at that too :)
==== Dear Diary ==========
http://www.deardiary.net - Put your thoughts online, Visit my diary, http://neutronic.d
True, a lot of people prefer a web-based forum, but News has a lot of advantages:
All the missing bits that these web-based threaded discussion packages offer could be added in with a fairly simple set of scripts. You could have custom home pages for User bios/information, for example.
I'm not really advocating dumping a web-based threaded discussion system for News, for one thing your users would probably really hate the change, but it's something that could be considered.
RPGBoard is THE WWWBoard-style message board script. Actually, comparing it to WWWBoard is a gross understatement. RPGBoard has so many features, I can't think of any more! These include:
Multiple forum support
Completely new code (now under the GPL)
New file format with an auto-archive/compress/delete function and file locking
A message previewer/editor, complete with a spell checker
Highly configurable with the web-based RPGBoard Configurator
Selectable backgrounds
Configurable message tags, including a "No Text" tag
Default options and bios for the regulars
Different header styles, including UBB/WWWThreads, WebBBS, the old traditional WWWBoard, and "collapsed threads" mode
Ability to collate replies to simulate a non-threaded look (and for easier browsing)
A message search engine
Name/password detection via cookies
Interactive date/time stamps with timezone capability and recent message color coding
Ability for users (and admins) to delete (or undelete) messages
Partial messages can be saved (good for those really long posts that you don't want to lose)
A complete stats utility
A hidden spoiler message box
Ability to have replies e-mailed to you
Ability to ban IP addresses as well as an Ignore List for users to use
Word filter to block cuss words
IP address/number lookups with proxy detection
Browser/OS detection
Year 2000 compliant (unlike WWWBoard)
Best of all, it's free (and GPL)! I'm not out to make any profit from this. It's simply my part in helping the Internet community have access to a really good message board script. It's really easy to install, too. Just follow the instructions.
http://www.resonatorsoft.com/softwa re/rpgboard/
The Message Board War.
http://www.freebsd.org
Ahhh...anyway, I hate WWWBoard (and all of those commericial money-grubbing boards) with a passion. I've been working on RPGBoard for over two years now. Of course, most of this is already explained in the info above (and in the links). Ugh, I'm going to get ./ed now...
--
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (sineswiper@resonatorsoft.com)
Zodiac Survey
Ugh! I'm almost about to puke! See, this is the type of BS I'm talking about. You don't need to pay $1200 for a freaking message board script! And it doesn't even run on Linux! For that price, I'd want it to do everything including walk my dog and clean my house.
--
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (sineswiper@resonatorsoft.com)
Zodiac Survey