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Japanese PC Manufacturers Preinstalling Linux
cshirky writes "There's an article in AsiaBizTech about Japanese PC manufacturers bundling Linux. The article concludes that
'Because Japan's main vendors are starting to offer Linux products and services, the Linux OS is likely to become a viable alternative for corporate customers.'" They're talking about big companies, too, like Compaq, IBM Japan, Hitachi, and Fujitsu. Sweet!
I love linux and use it at home but linux is not ready for prime time in the middle to high end server area yet. The fact that there is a process limit in the table and the nasty race conditions in the hard drive buffering that can add security holes and the primitive tcp/ip stack leave and last but not least is lack of features specific to databases make linux a bad choice for the enterprise for now as any proud *bsd-er would say.
Solaris and hp-ux is better for corporate buyers and I would prefer NT over linux if I had a choice for a databse.
Infact my brother has a friend at Microsoft and he says that microsft's next fud test is with a databse and the 2.4 kernel when it comes out. NT is going to run sql server while linux is going to run Oracle and SQl server is going to knock the pants off of linux. Mindcraft was orignally going to run the test but ms has contacted another vendor so it can prove that another indepent group approves NT over linux. I think linux 3.0 or hell even 3.2 is when linux will finally handle the big unix boys.
Again I stress that I love linux but would you run this on a $40,000 machine at work for mission critical database or web serving?
Linux Today has this story - part 2- about Linux and Korea.
:-)
Thankyou - that's the most useful Korea link I've ever seen. Following a lead to the korean internet faq I found the following interesting statement:
Microsoft Korea came up with its own Hangul encoding, UHC(Unified Hangul Code: MS Code Page 949, Windows-949) stripping Hangul of its unique merit as 'phonetically-combined-writing' system and treating it just like Chinese letters, use it in Hangul Windows 95 and Windows NT (in case of Korean Windows NT 4.0, all internal processings are done in Unicode, but on the surface, it used UHC) despite repeated advices by Korean government to adopt ISO-10646.
Hmm. Talk about de-comoditizing standards. Well I guess if you can take control of an entire country's language encoding standard you've got a real kick-ass lock-in happening. BTW, thanks to your link I've now got hangul up and running in hanterm and Netscape - maybe that missing hangul howto just just say one thing: "get hanterm".
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Korea seems to have decided that Microsoft is strategicly bad to deal with and that Linux is a better choice.
:-) This will help breed a new class of Linux gurus in Korea that pull their own weight, income-wise.
When did they decide that? I was there for some time last year and the impression I got is that Microsoft is rather dominant to say the least. In Korea the economic imperative is stronger than in many of the leading industrial countries with higher per capita GNP, making it harder to justify spending a lot of one's time doing something that doesn't produce an immediate paycheck. Translation: working as an MSCE pays the bills - being a Linux guru doesn't.
At least, that seems to have been the case till now. What may change that is the obvious utility of Linux on a departmental mail server, or proxy server, or VPN gateway, or odbc database server, etc. etc. The software cost of each of these applications being $0.0 (even less when converted to won
Linux is far from entering the mainstream as a desktop system in Korea. There are a number or reasons for this but one of the big ones is the spotty internationalization support. It's certainly not a "sit in it and drive away" situation. Turbo Linux is jumping in to help fill this void, but tell me - why is there no hangul-howto (IOW how to install hangul) in the standard howto collections? So that you can easily work in hangul even in Redhat, Debian, or whatever?
In my opinion, we haven't done enough to support Linux take-up in one of the world's most populous and industrially advanced countries. Whoever is in Korea and is reading this, please correct me if I've said anything inaccurate.
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
I've always wondered why it mostly seems to be white people who have such tendencies to disrespect other people. I know there are also nice ones, don't get me wrong. I've got white friends myself who are okay. But white people have some sort of natural behaviour to insult people very quickly. This is certainly not a flamebait, I know there are a lot of people who understand what I mean by that. It's just the thing that white people feel that they're better because they're pink. I don't understand that. Well the term "white" doesn't apply to white people. In racial science, "white" is a group, also found in Asian and middle-east people. There are also lightbrown skinned caucasian people, as well as pink ones and white ones. The term Aryan race is bullshit, because the "Aryan invasion theory" tells something else. It said that light skinned nomads (probably Iranians or neighbor country nomads) invaded India. So therefore there was this uneducated prick SHitler, who said: "Oh, light skinned. That's me!". The blond hair and blue eyes theory is as stupid as his coupe. He doesn't have blue eyes and blonde hair himself. Because of the Aryan invasion theory, they took the Swastika as their symbol, because the story was in India. The swastika is a very positive and powerful symbol in India and China. Okay, I won't deny that China isn't proud of the Asian race.
But being white, pink, brown, black or yellow doesn't help us fix the neighbors' door or help your friend with their programming assignments.
The bad attitude is just something stupid invented by humans.
The 2.2 series is pretty solid.
Whats the point in giving someone 2.0.37
when they could do perfectly well with 2.2.10 or so, that is stable, and has all the extra stuff they might need.
I'm not advocating giving them 2.3 or anything, but at least they should use the latest stable.
Go home to zdnet where you belong.
As someone who has studied Japanese language and culture for 8 years and has visited Japan, I can say that the perception that Japan adopts new technology more quickly than North America is incorrect. In fact, because of intransigence and resistance to change on the part of large organizations in Japan (such as NTT, the phone monopoly there), the spread of Internet use in Japan has been crippled for at least seven years. And that's just 1 example. Japan has a reputation for allowing winning technologies to prove themselves elsewhere before the corporate culture there will adopt it; then they play catchup and, usually, do a very good job of improving the state of the art once they do. But they are very rarely the ones to promote a new paradigm, and instead take the route of conservativism.
gaming is very underrated. i know a lot of non-computer people who bought 400-500 mhz gaming machines. now, these people could care less what os is under the hood, all they care about is if they can play their lara croft this is something to keep in mind for all of you bent on world domination. these people will never switch to linux if they found out you can't play lara croft on linux yet. and no, this doesn't include running it through wine. for a few of these people, i had to install the games for them, so don't expect them to actually use a complex program.
Japanese adopt technology earlier????? No way. They may produce lots of neat consumer electronics toys but a visit to any major Japanese company would have you think you were back in the 60's.
I would discount the language as an impediment as proper training with technologies such as IMEs result in faster input and document creation than by hand.
The sad truth is that short-sighted techno-phobic management have kept computers out of Japanese firms. These are guys who grew up in the poverty of post-war Japan and who think that only hard work and endless hours of manual labour can produce a result. The concept that a simple CrossTalk + Excel macro can do in 30 seconds what took two girls an entire Friday every week to accomplish is beyond their comprehension.
This situation is changing as the post-war generation retires and the young shinjin-rui step into management positions, but there is still a long way to go.
Other posts mentioned the bastardized double-byte encodings that have hindered Asian MS products up to now. MS's Japanese Shift-JIS (a.k.a. Shit-JIS) is no exception. Imagine some foreign company coming into the States saying "We have a great new encoding for your language which is really efficient except you can't use Q or X because there aren't enough data points". The Japanese are looking for a proper alternative which they can adapt to be their own (as they always will). An Open Source OS such as Linux is perfect for the job but I would say the risk of forking is WAY higher in Japan since each company will still want to "do it their way". Those around in Japan in the 80's will recall that every manufacturer's hardware was incompatible so a software maker had to produce an NEC version, a Fujitsu version, a Hitachi version, etc. etc.
- Guregu -
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
What with the umpteen million motherboards going out with Linux, and now this, there's going to quite a few new users, and more users means more developers, and more developers means more stuff.....and world dominition here we come :)
-Ted
This is definately a Good Thing(tm) the big company's are finally seing the light.
This should also take away the need for customers to perform a relatively difficult install because it is allready installed. this will make more people able to try linux even if they're complete dummy's (operating KDE/GNOME is just as easy or maybe more easy than windows) and they will see the stability and wonder why they have ever accepted M$ crap.
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The vast majority of users live with whatever OS comes on their PC - I think one of the major reasons for the domination of Windows is simply the fact it comes pre-installed on a lot of PCs
Now Linux is coming preinstalled and readily available as an option more people will be tempted to try it, and having accepted, it will stick with it. Even if Linux systems are sold on to companies more workers will be exposed to it and the dreams of Linux world domination will become more realistic.
Another factor is that Linux is starting to look quite perty now we have desktops like KDE & Gnome.
Two years ago I always said to anyone who asked that Linux is not really for Joe Public and they should stick to Windows. Now I believe I can see the day when I'll change my recommendation. Especially now we're starting to see the two major holes of Games and Office-type apps being filled. I believe Linux can be said to have won when a games manufacturer feels obliged to release a Linux version at the same time or before the Windows version.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
On a related note, I've noticed that there has been a LOT of progress in internationalization in Linux, particularly for Oriental languages (Japanese in particular). Over the last few days, Debian has suddenly gained several dozen packages specifically for Japanese language support, and many other programs have been retrofit for various internationalized functionalization. Definitely a Good Thing(tm). No reason to exclude most of the civilized world just because they don't use 8-bit Roman characters.
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"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Both Hitachi and Fujitsu sell boxes running BeOS.
There's definitely a growing dissatisfaction in the enterprise with MS software and services. Just yesterday I was sitting in the meeting, and people were talking about how to move some files from PeeCees to our big dumb UNIX boxes, where all the company jewels are.
Someone said something to the effect "let's use our Samba boxes". I asked him to repeat what he just said, to make sure that I heard him right.
I do consulting, and my current contract is with the traditional suit-n-tie multinational financial corp. This is the last place you'd expect to find a bunch of Samba boxes running somewhere. I was in a state of shock for the rest of the day. It turned out that they have Samba running on Solaris, but that's a start, I suppose.
So it doesn't surprise me what the Japanese are doing. It's probably going to happen here too, within the next couple of years. Unless W2K is a smashing success, you'll start to see many places begin to decomission their NT servers when they reach the end of their lifecycle, and recycling the boxes to run something else. Maybe Linux, maybe Solaris, maybe Monterey.
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Just as long as they don't end up putting some
bastardized version on the systems it is great.
Check http;//www.turbolinux.com
Surely they could have got a newer version than RH 5.2. I know it's a Japanese language version, but is 5.2 the only Japanese version there is?
Come on, 5.2 doesn't even have a 2.2 series kernel, and we're nearing 2.4 now, if the rumours are true.
At least according to this link on the turbolinux Web site.
Can anyone comment on the reputation Dell presently has in Japan?
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Given China's low cost labor (slave) and a
free operating system, they could just flood
the world with cheap computers.
so they've got the workstations covered, now how about xBSD for the servers?
... it needs a "fool-proof" interface. (Not that Window~1 is fool-proof, but ...) ... to get started right away. A new customer won't care wether the source code of that applications are GPL'd or not, he wants to work as fast as he can... or something like that.
/pyder.....
If a new customer who knows Micros~1 products sees this "Linux thing" he'll need an office ap (StarOffice?),
Cpyder
_
/
\_\ You type "WIN" but actually you LOOSE
In all acutality I have never seen a Linux warez site... I guess people have too much respect for the software developers. Lets hope Japan doesn't start a movement.
Strange, i've heard of the linux version of vmware being pritated.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but linux people are not saintly.
somewhere I heard the Japan pirates like 42% (rough guess) of all the worlds pirated software. Now they can just go to Freshmeat and download anything GPLed.
In all acutality I have never seen a Linux warez site... I guess people have too much respect for the software developers. Lets hope Japan doesn't start a movement.
Where are my damn moderator points when I need them?
The opposite of the verb "win" is "lose" (with just one "o"). "Loose" is an adjective meaning the opposite of "tight".
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Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
I wonder if this is the end of the US-based domination of the World's software? Korea seems to have decided that Microsoft is strategicly bad to deal with and that Linux is a better choice. I'm pretty sure I've read that Mexico's school system is going to Linux.
The big question is "Unless the Linux-on-the-desktop crowd are significantly successful soon, will it mean that the clue-per-person index will go up in 'developing countries' while it's declining in 'developed countries?'"
The US Government's policies and strategies seem to be tilted towards commercial entities, not the efforts of the population at large (e.g. crypto binaries ok, crypto source bad) - countries with less disposable income in their populations are taking national strategic advantage of free (as in beer), and that could have serious long-term impact on the global computing environment.
More clue is good. I'm just worried that a lot of US and European policy-makers are buying into the less-skilled workplace being good and long term it seems to be a less-than-ideal solution.
Paul
http://www.pauldrobertson.com
FIRST POST!!!
We are beginning to sell customers boxes for their internal networks with Linux pre-installed (Cobalt Raq II's for the interested) which, *g* oddly enough - have been a picture of reliablility. With the new userfriendly web interfaces coming out Linux is becoming a very serious contender for small business.
second first post!?!?!
Where do you think most of the hardware you're using is made??? 80% of all PC hardware is manufactured by Taiwanese companies who have setup plants in China to take advantage of the low pay and lack of any environmental laws. BTW, Linux is VERY big in Taiwan and China. Virtually any computer shop I've been to in the past 11/2 years has had a selection of O'Reilly books (in Chinese) along with Slackware, Redhat, Turbolinux, FreeBSD and Debian. For more info (if you can read Chinese) checkout: http://www.linpus.com.tw and http://cle.linux.org.tw
Didn't Turbolinux alone outsell windows 98 in Japan? Seem to recall an article about that a while back...
- Rei
All these announcements about PC vendors pre-installing Linux and guaranteeing that their machiens will run Linux is not only great news because it means more linux users overall, but also because it will definitely mean more and better hardware support by OEMs, and more releasing of hardware specs and driver source.
Think about it: if major manufacturers like Compaq and Dell are going to be supporting Linux, they will not want to have to build two different kinds of machines using two different kinds of components: they are going to want their vendors to supply components that are Linux-compatible so that tehy only have to stock one kind of component, and to reduce their support costs. Soon enough, component vendors won't be able to ignore Linux support as if it didn't matter, because their major high-volume customers will be demanding it, not just end users. Compaq will be saying "look, Mr. network-card-vendor, we want Linux support, and we want *good* Linux support, or else we'll go find someone whose product *does* have it."
And that will be a happy time, as hardware manufacturers scramble not only to rtelease their specs, but actively work with the Linux community to make sure tehir drivers are solid.
Oh.. ok... you have HEARD from somewhere and you based your unfound option on that. I read somewhere that 90% of US computer users pirate software. And yeah, 98% of GIF file users violate the law. We have a nation of law breaking holier-than-thou upright citizens.
Oh wait... it's a post from AH. That explains it.
it needs a "fool-proof" interface.
It's not possible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious!