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Vote for a FreeBSD port of JDK1.2 from Sun
Several people submitted this, but Nate Williams was first. In his own words: "As head of the current FreeBSD/JDK porting development team it's been difficult to finish our JDK2 efforts due to lack of help from Sun. In order to try and make JDK2 on FreeBSD a reality, we are lobbying Sun using a RFE (Request For Enhancement) on the Java Developer network to demonstrate to them the number of people interested in seeing FreeBSD as a supported Java platform.". Read on if you're interested in seeing more complete Java support on FreeBSD.
Nate continues, "Please go to Sun Bug 4288745, and add your votes to ask Sun into allocating resources towards getting a native FreeBSD port of JDK2 (and JDK3, etc...) finished.
"Voting requires that you be registed on the Java Developer Connection, which is free.)
"This is good for open-source operating systems, and Java in general since FreeBSD is a great server platform used by many of the major internet portal sites (Yahoo, Hotmail), and would allow FreeBSD to compete as a Java server platform directly with less 'open' systems such as WinNT."
It's worth noting that any support Sun provide for a FreeBSD port should also be useful to both the NetBSD and OpenBSD Java teams as well, so we can all benefit from this work.
As I recall about a year ago this was tried for Linux. The RFE sat at the top of the request list by a long way and Sun just ignored it. What has changed in the last year or so to make Sun more amenable to porting it to other OSs now?
The two secrets to success: 1- Don't tell anyone everything.
-13
Sun is notoriously unresponsive to popular demand. If you check the bug parade (for the uninitiated, a place where you can vote on which bugs should be fixed), the bug that requests a Sun port of JDK to Linux has been far and away the number one requested bug for almost two years. They haven't even lifted a finger, unless you count giving the JCK to the blackdown people... What makes anyone think that they would be any different when it comes to FreeBSD? Trying to get them to even respond to anything like that, let alone take action on it, is like pulling teeth. Sun needs to wake up.
How is this different from other applications under BSD? You can run any Linux application under FreeBSD, thanks to the Linux emulation. What's so special about Java that it requires a native port?
I doubt Sun's going to support BSD in this millenium.. Ehm.. Anyway, Sun hasn't even given solid support to Linux, one can argue that it's because it's a 'competing' OS - but BSD is an even more adept competitor (when it comes to networking at least). It must be hard for Sun to want to make a technology like Java popular as well as want to make a 'leading' networking OS.
I say lobby IBM instead, their Java stuff kicks butt.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
Possibly you may also want to send your protest and petition along to IBM, who has proven to be both more willing, and more capable than Sun of porting Java to various platforms. They've ported 1.1.x to at least three platforms I can think of (AIX, Linus & OS/2) and their implementations have been superior to Sun's. And Jikes, their java compiler, is already open sourced which may help with the porting.
Dana
send flames > /dev/null
Only 'flamers' flame!
Once they -did- support it, support seems to have been minimal. It's not on their list of Sun JDK's, Java 2 has been very slow in coming (no fault of the porters), and I've not seen the enthusiasm or energy I would have expected from Sun. After all, it -was- Sun who advocated Java for all platforms.
Instead, I'd like to propose that the *BSD community lobby IBM, for a port of -their- Java development kit and runtime system. I suspect there would be a much higher liklihood of success, as IBM seem to have embraced the concept of "free" operating systems and even "open source" in a way I don't think any other "traditional" company comes even close.
Now, if IBM's Java software can be made to work natively & optimally under *BSD, Sun may feel a degree of pressure to at least consider the platform. I suspect it was the presence of "clean room" implementations for Linux that eventually tipped the balance there.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Java security issues are serious enough that it needs to be reviewed the way the OpenBSD ppl review their code. And hopefully the Free BSD port works on OpenBSD without too much effort?
No, I believe the post comes rather from a pro-Microsoft voice. The guy tries to imply (in a silly way, since he/she thinks now SUN is making a port of Java for *BSD, which is not!) that there is such a big competition in this industry, that even *BSD are viable platforms, competitive to Windows.
I might be wrong, but I see it that way. No need to blame the *BSD people.
Sigged!
UGH...these colors are putrid...OSOnline does a good job of making color schemes for their sections, but short of a redesign of the whole slashdot interface, I don't think slashdot is going to do this very well...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Sun's only interest regarding Java is in money revenue from their own OS, servers and future thin-client model it seems. Pretty pathetic when you think that Java is supposed to be cross-platform. They refuse to make it Open Source, and to cooperate with grass-root initiatives.
/a had worked.
But someone[tm] did a port of the various versions of JDK and JRE for Linux, including v1.2:
http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux.html
Hopefully this will compile under BSD with no- or little modification. According to OpenBSD-homepages, BSD is very compatible with Linux. But I have honestly never tried BSD myself, so I cannot know to what extent.
I would've written this in HTML if only
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
I really like FreeBSD, but I am not sure whether a Java port on FreeBSD would really make sense. My main concern is that AFAIK FreeBSD does not support (Kernel-)Threads. Or has this changed in 3.0?
Sure the Linux-port has been number one RFE for a while, but I would assume mainly because alot of L!nux rul3z advocates are voting for it.
I'm definately NOT saying that we don't want to develop on Linux. I for one do. But most big Java apps aren't yet using 1.2. And there's at least two implemenations (Blackdown's port and IBM 1.1.8) to work with.
Saying that Sun doesn't care about developers just doesn't hold true either. Sure, they can't suit everyone. Sure they don't do everything they promise - at least not right away. And you expect them to change anything just because somebody somewhere yells at them to get it done.
But Sun's community process works well on a lot of APIs they're developing. I know lots of user feedback went into Java2 stuff like Swing, Collections. They work together alot with SERIOUS developers (and not just really big corporations).
If you want to get involved it's quite a bit of work: download the early releases, try them out (and maybe waste alot of work cause your code won't be compatible with the official release later), write up serious bug-reports, write up serious requests and don't just yell "I want it for Linux!"
BTW should this be a RFE and not a bug-report?
I notice Sun has just 404ed the top25 bug page without explanation. :)
[-- Trust the Monkey --]
After chceking out IBM's compiler on the opensource site I was wondering if it is possible to get jikes to compile a Java App with the 1.2 ClassLibs under BSD? Any thoughts?
I am not interested in helping your cause. Sun Micro is just as evil as Microsoft. Scott McNealy wants to dominate the industry just like Gates does. Java would have to be released to a governing body like ISO for me to even look at using it. It makes zero sense to support proprietary languages like Java. I certainly wouldn't beg them to support my platform.
Sun has created a product for which it touts portability as a primary feature, yet they refuse to port the JDK to platforms that have significant developer mindshare.
Its obvious that Java is simply being used in a massive PR project to build up support for Solaris and Sun hardware, and that support for Win32 is only grudgingly offered due to its overwhelming userbase.
Come to think of it, it really isn't that much of a loss. Estimates of working Java programmers from independent firms show numbers only around 10% of the hyper-inflated tallies offered by Sun (does anyone actually believe Sun numbers that there are 5 million working Java coders? What the hell are they building?). So its clearly not as popular as they would have us think.
Added to which, its a dog of a language. I love it in here how people tout Java as "letting me forget about memory management". Ha! As if. You have to worry about memory management in every language and tool. Even if that doesn't mean malloc'ing and free'ing memory yourself. Most Java programmers I know have no problem doing stupid memory stunts like redeclaring objects inside loops, etc. This is memory management too folks.
Added to that, the language doesn't let me choose a paradigm - its OO or nothing. You can debate this with me all day, but I still contend that hard OO doesn't cut it for real world problems, which rarely map well to a object model, and if they do, the implementor usually creates spaghetti hierarchies that make it impossible to add/subtract new classes.
I prefer my tools small and simple. C, perl, and maybe C++ (but never RTTI, exceptions, multiple inheritance, templates, or polymorphic behavior). They're time proven and they actually work in solving real problems.
I think most people here are missing the point. When Sun says "Java everywhere",what they mean is "Java on Windows and Solaris." McNealy couldn't care less about anything else.
Linux on x86 is a serious competitor to low end Sun hardware, as is *BSD although it gets less publicity. Why does Sun want a free OS on cheap commodity hardware getting more software support? It will just make the transition from SPARC/Solaris->Linux easier, something Sun doesn't want. Yes, I know Sparc/Linux exists, but honestly what kind of support does it get compared to x86? With the newer x86s like Athlon SPARC doesn't have the staggering performance advantage it used to. (I'm not talking here the Sun "big iron"- we won't be seeing 64 processor x86 anytime soon.)
"Java everywhere" is a weapon to try and kill MS. Nothing more.
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
See the platform page of the Kaffe Java Virtual Machine. They ported it to about anything... But it's only a 1.1 compliant VM.
The Blackdown ports overview can be found here. But AFAIK they're Linux only (although on several platforms). They have a pre-1.2 JDK which runs pretty well.
runs on everything i can think of ... python apps can even be "pickled" to run where python isn't installed.
Now if they could just *decide* on a standard GUI and add a few security checks for running python apps over the web in some kind of sandbox (like safe tcl) it would rule.
Maybe then Sun would pay attention.
...and if enough of us get down on our knees and beg for it, maybe they'll grace us with a little bit of support. Now why did anyone fall for this closed platform again?
added to which, its open. this never really meant much to me until i saw how sun used java like a carrot on a stick - i'll never again consider a closed tool.
This must be one of the most agressive color
schemes I've seen.Hey, Rob, you forgot
to use the BLINK tag.
http://www.oreilly.com/frank/rossum_1099.html "Python is a very natural scripting language for Java."
If FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD etc... has such a great mindshare, why not download the reference implementation and port it!
I find it hard to believe that BSD people would adopt java in a big way, I mean you are all obsessed with having the source anyway, so why should binary cross-plattform compatability matter?
Anyway Java 1.1 works very nicely for server-side deployment, so what is the big argument for Java 2 on BSD?
-- Tov Are Jacobsen
The moto "write once, run anywhere " suggests that there shouldn't even need to be a vote. FreeBSD's user-base exceeds that of some of the platforms Sun already actively supports ports for. Sun to complain that the MicroSoft Java extentions violate the write one, run anywhere moto but the truth is that for several platforms the introduction of newer versions of the JDK has done the same exact thing. The fact that Sun can complain about MicroSoft while ignoring platforms with a rapidly growing number of users such as Linux & FreeBSD baffles me. If it wasn't for the efforts of Transvirtual and MicroSoft's funding of the Kaffe project then I would have given up on Java being internet standard long ago.
Its about having FreeBSD as a tier-one port...so FreeBSD developers can take advantage of the features of Java as they become available.
It sounds more like an ill-informed, quickly-typed, First Post to me.
Reading from most comments, it seems that SUN is not supporting the cross platform suport for non-SUN platforms. Well if this is their strategy they might loose much more then just their OS. They are probably getting nervous on their return of investment on Java. But having Java mainly working on Solaris and NT is not enough. It's not just words. We need the support as well. If they can't give it, they definitly should move it to open source. (And not wait till the boat is sinking). I've became a bit more carefull. I don't want to depend on one companies strategy. When the Java developers are dropping out because of a lacking cross platform and are returning to gcc, what did sun gain ?
While I am a Java developer primarily and I use FreeBSD for almost all my machines, this is not a real concern for me. I use FreeBSD on older machines (486,386,etc) to make them useful (probably more useful than my p-II monster running NT, etc), and with Java's performance I wouldn't want to try to run in on a 486. Maybe when FreeBSD's SMP support is better I'll worry about Java, but there are other things more important to me about FreeBSD than Java support.
abrams's advice: when eating an elephant, take one bite at a time.
I hope Java teaches everyone some painful lessons about what to avoid. A language born as a pimple on the butt of a moribund set-top box and thrust into the limelight artificially by corporate/marketing imperatives was doomed to failure from the outset. The only question is how long the decaying corpse will be left out on the street.
The main sucker for Java is the corporate manager riding herd on a bunch of keyboard monkeys he doesn't quite trust and hoping that a bondage-and-discipline language will limit the amount of feces they can throw. I've talked to a couple of these, and they pale with horror at the idea of unleashing their monkeys with Perl.
I think a secondary and less acknowledged motivation for the sucker choosing java is that it reduces the dynamic range between smart and dumb programmers, thus protecting his fragile ego. If Abigail coded Java, it would probably look just like Mike Monkey's Java. So the sucker manager could be spared the realization that he is an order of magnitude less intelligent than some of his programmers.
Oh, about that 'memory management' issue:
Try this: % perl -e'for(0..10) {for(0..1000) {my $x=7;} print `ps u $$`;}' and notice that the memory consumption doesn't increase.The point is that in 1999 there is no reason for an application programmer to have to worry about that. It seems like Java has stuck the application programmer with responsibility for memory management while attempting to hide the details, a predictably disastrous combination.
Anyway, this whole mess illustrates the perils of a proprietary programming language. A world that has C, Perl, Python and TCL should laugh Java off the planet.
Insprise has ported a fast version of 1.2 to linux. It can be found here:
http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/linux/
Enjoy!