The simple fact that millions try every year to immigrate to America (and over a million per year succeed), many of them fleeing China, says enough as it is.
Actually, fewer people have been leaving every year, most importantly because people have started to realize that the people who moved to the US often led worse lives here (as waitresses and whatnot due to lack of ability to communicate well and so forth) than they would have back home. Take a trip to China some time. The conditions are not that bad. My middle-class cousins spend their summers in air-conditioned rooms watching cable, playing Nintendo, etc., when they're not outside. The business opportunities are increasing and many people invest in the stock market.
In many ways, China is more capitalist than the US already. Try actually seeing the place or talking to someone who's been there before bashing it.
Oh, right.. you did.. Harry Wu. I'm not going to say that nothing he says has merit, becuase some of it does, but I would like to point out that he is a man of incredibly questionable integrity. I know at least one of his documentaries was faked by sneaking into OR and filming a heart operation, then calling it an illegal liver transplant.
While I agree that people should stop bashing China so much, I have to point out that the Tiananmen Square massacre WAS as bad as it was portrayed. If you don't believe that people were killed, just take a look at these pictures, especially the page with photos of the massacre. Warning: These pictures can be quite graphic and disturbing.
That does not automatically follow. In fact, if you read his speeches, you can see that yes, he is all in favor of economic reform, but he wants nothing to do whatsoever with China becoming more democratic
Yes, of course, but that's just to tout the official party line. If you listen to what the leaders really think, many of them have all but admitted that democracy is inevitable, but that the country should move slowly, rather than quickly like Russia.
The nazis made many useful findings that helped advance medicine (granted in an inhuman way), but nobody remembers them for that.
There is of course a key difference there.. The Nazis obtained those medical advances in inhumane ways, while Deng's economic advances were not (for the most part) inhumane. They were a separate accomplishment.
Yes, Why I've even heard that some of our prisons only have BASIC cable!!! How do they live like that. Seriously, I don't think THAT is one of our problems, I'm way more concerned withconditions in our schools and cities.
I'm not saying all prisons have inhumane conditions, just that some do, and prison abuse (by both guard and other inmates) is a definite problem and there are many documented cases (and certainly many more undocumented cases). The reason I bring this up is because it's a situation where a government institution is directly violating human rights.
Well, yes. He did a great deal for the Westernization of China and opening China up economically and thus paving the way for slowly becoming more democratic. Yes, he also ordered the massacre of students, but that doesn't mean he hasn't done good, as well.
Although the Tiananmen Square massacre was a pretty horrible thing to do, you would have to admit that his economic reforms have improved the lives of many many people.
But they are arguably the country with the worst track record today.
"arguably" is the key world there. I would say that in terms of impact on human lives, the US might be considered far worse.
Why? Because our corporations do some pretty godawful things in third world countries (up to and including indirectly killing people), and our government not only does nothing to stop them, but it rather supports them merely to better our economy.
Combine that with our regular non-U.N.-sanctioned bombings of other countries, and we have violated the basic human rights of just as many people as the Chinese government, if not more.
You'd be surprised. The relative cost to a middle-class urban family in China of buying a computer these days is less than the cost to an American middle-class family of buying a car.
Unfortunately, I don't have any numbers on me, but you can be assured that the user base is at least well into the millions already.
The only thing I am interested in about the United States is how we violate the basic human rights of its citizens and other countries (i.e., every country we've bombed without U.N. permission, every third world country we exploit through corporations we support, still high levels of racism, especially in the justice system, inhumane prison conditions, etc.)
Insert any Western European country here and I'm sure you'll find tons of human rights violations as well.
I'm being sarcastic, of course, in saying that these are the only things I'm interested in about the US. Just as this country does produce a great deal of good in addition to the bad, you should not dismiss the entire country of China just because it does some bad things.
The majority of the planets we've been able to detect so far are gas giants because their mass makes them easier to detect. Doesn't mean there aren't any Earth-like planets out there, though.
I urge you to take a look at VFXPro.com, which has everything you'll ever want to know about the fx industry, from interviews to technology reviews to job listings.
The questioner would probably like to take a look at those job listings.
As for the rest of you, many would probably be interested in this spotlight on The Matrix, as it contains several hi-res quicktime clips of various cool scenes in the movie.
Here are the direct links to those clips, for those of you too lazy to look around:
Exactly. And even if it WERE a "First Post", which it wasn't, it should've gotten an "Offtopic" or "Flaimbait", not "Redundant". I mean, first posts, by definition, cannot be redundant.
Of course, you're implying that everyone how reads/. is in the United States, which is certainly not true. It's already bright and early in the morning in Europe, for instance.
Of course, it defeats the entire purpose of the system for you to tell us this, because now anyone who finds one of yoru passwords can figure ou the rest, making changing your password pointless.
I think his point was that Communism was being used as a TOOL for doing bad things.. Rather than Communism being the root of the problems. There are many very socialist countries in Western Europe/Scandinavia that are doing fine.
Communism itself is not evil. It's the use of it to justify actions that can be.
from what I understand, the word for 'for' is 'dui\', as in "dui\ ni~, yong\ Linux hen rong/.yi" (for you, using Linux is easy).
I guess that's just another type of 'for', though. Doing a 'true' literal translation is imposible, due to the fact that the languages are pretty diffrent...
Exactly. "For" in English maps to different words in Chinese depending on context. And so with a "literal" translation, I figured I'd at least translate to what is most correct in the context given.
I wish my Chinese were better.. I love the topic of translation.
If I ever get a msg that is Bcc'd to me (which isn't as unoften as one might think), I wouldn't see it for a while. (Unless I check my spam box every day.. in which case I might as well just get the spam.)
Also, interestingly enough, most of the spam I get at my primary address actually have my email address in the headers...
In a communist society, i must do what I am 'deemed to be good at' even though i like picking mushrooms off of rocks and throwing them at squirrels all day.
I think the inherent assumption behind Communism (the chief reason it is a practical failure) is that you DO want to.. that you would be intelligent and realize helping your fellow man is the best course of action and thus you will do it. That you would choose to cooperate in a Prisoner's Dillemma.
In real life, that just doesn't work.. In real life, the Prisoners always get jail time. That's why we need to make the world unlike the Prisoner's Dillemma and create a system where selfishness is not a detriment, but an advantage: i.e. capitalism.
after all, in an ideal world, where people aren't selfish and greedy, Socialism/Communism is an ideologically sound social structure (note I said social, NOT political.
I personally don't even agree that pure Communism would work. Just read any sf novel dealing with "utopian" futures. They inevitably seem incredibly stale and boring. After all, wouldn't life just lack excitement if everyone were the same and you couldn't strive to be better?
First: Being Communist is inherently evil? I thought we got over that.. Oh well... Second: The government does some pretty bad stuff, but that's just the fruit of an oppressive government in general, and has nothing to do with "Communism" per se. Communism is primarily an economy philosophy, and in terms of economy, China is practically more capitalistic in many ways than the U.S. these days.
- They've stolen extremely sensitive nuclear weapon information from us.
First of all, if you're referring to the Los Alamos case, I'd like to point out that, not only has no evidence whatsoever been produced, the government has not even CHARGED the guy (whose name I forget) with anything yet! I mean, if you like this country so much, ever heard of a little something called "innocent until proven guilty"? And that's usually for people who have been charged, at least...
Secondly, I'm not sure if this guy stole secrets, but I'm sure China has espionage teams here in general.. SO?! Do you think the U.S. doesn't have espionage teams in China and practically every other country in the world? It's part of international politics.. EVERYONE is spying on everyone.. Just because one guy is allegedly caught, that makes the country evil? At worst, it indicates incompetence (in getting caught).
I really don't why stealing nuclear secrets would even be that big a deal.. I mean, governments are doing it to each other all the time. That doesn't make it right, but I think there are far worse things we can accuse the Chinese government (or our own) of than that.
- They repeatedly and blatently violate the human rights of its citizens and Nepal.
Isn't it Tibet that people are riled up against? Unless China has been doing something with Nepal I don't know about (which I kinda doubt, but is possible), I think you're referring to Tibet.
In any case, I do not contest the truth of that. I personally disagree with the actions of the Chinese government in many cases, though I should point out that the issues are less black & white as people suggest. (For instance, you may not agree with their arguments for "stability" at the expense of personal liberty, but if you look at the results of instability in Russia, you would have to admit that the issue is at least somewhat complex.)
What I do contest is your implication that China violates human rights, and thus we should stop doing business with them. You know what? The U.S. violates human rights all the time. And I'm not even talking about such fuzzy cases as the validity of its troops invading other countries without U.N. permission.. I'm talking about internal problems like prison torture. (Prisons are gov't facilities.)
Slashdot Mirror
The simple fact that millions try every year to immigrate to America (and over a million per year succeed), many of them fleeing China, says enough as it is.
Actually, fewer people have been leaving every year, most importantly because people have started to realize that the people who moved to the US often led worse lives here (as waitresses and whatnot due to lack of ability to communicate well and so forth) than they would have back home.
Take a trip to China some time. The conditions are not that bad. My middle-class cousins spend their summers in air-conditioned rooms watching cable, playing Nintendo, etc., when they're not outside. The business opportunities are increasing and many people invest in the stock market.
In many ways, China is more capitalist than the US already. Try actually seeing the place or talking to someone who's been there before bashing it.
Oh, right.. you did.. Harry Wu. I'm not going to say that nothing he says has merit, becuase some of it does, but I would like to point out that he is a man of incredibly questionable integrity. I know at least one of his documentaries was faked by sneaking into OR and filming a heart operation, then calling it an illegal liver transplant.
While I agree that people should stop bashing China so much, I have to point out that the Tiananmen Square massacre WAS as bad as it was portrayed.
If you don't believe that people were killed, just take a look at these pictures, especially the page with photos of the massacre.
Warning: These pictures can be quite graphic and disturbing.
I agree completely. We need to have different countries with different laws so people at least have somewhere to run to if they're getting screwed.
That does not automatically follow. In fact, if you read his speeches, you can see that yes, he is all in favor of economic reform, but he wants nothing to do whatsoever with China becoming more democratic
Yes, of course, but that's just to tout the official party line. If you listen to what the leaders really think, many of them have all but admitted that democracy is inevitable, but that the country should move slowly, rather than quickly like Russia.
We should also keep in mind that the Nazis' medical advances were not nearly as large in scope as their atrocities.
On the other hand, Deng's economic reforms ARE rather human in their scope and impact.
The nazis made many useful findings that helped advance medicine (granted in an inhuman way), but nobody remembers them for that.
There is of course a key difference there.. The Nazis obtained those medical advances in inhumane ways, while Deng's economic advances were not (for the most part) inhumane. They were a separate accomplishment.
inhumane prison conditions
Yes, Why I've even heard that some of our prisons only have BASIC cable!!! How do they live like that.
Seriously, I don't think THAT is one of our problems, I'm way more concerned withconditions in our schools and cities.
I'm not saying all prisons have inhumane conditions, just that some do, and prison abuse (by both guard and other inmates) is a definite problem and there are many documented cases (and certainly many more undocumented cases).
The reason I bring this up is because it's a situation where a government institution is directly violating human rights.
Well, yes. He did a great deal for the Westernization of China and opening China up economically and thus paving the way for slowly becoming more democratic.
Yes, he also ordered the massacre of students, but that doesn't mean he hasn't done good, as well.
Although the Tiananmen Square massacre was a pretty horrible thing to do, you would have to admit that his economic reforms have improved the lives of many many people.
He's a man who has done much good as well as bad.
But they are arguably the country with the worst track record today.
"arguably" is the key world there. I would say that in terms of impact on human lives, the US might be considered far worse.
Why? Because our corporations do some pretty godawful things in third world countries (up to and including indirectly killing people), and our government not only does nothing to stop them, but it rather supports them merely to better our economy.
Combine that with our regular non-U.N.-sanctioned bombings of other countries, and we have violated the basic human rights of just as many people as the Chinese government, if not more.
You'd be surprised.
The relative cost to a middle-class urban family in China of buying a computer these days is less than the cost to an American middle-class family of buying a car.
Unfortunately, I don't have any numbers on me, but you can be assured that the user base is at least well into the millions already.
The only thing I am interested in about the United States is how we violate the basic human rights of its citizens and other countries (i.e., every country we've bombed without U.N. permission, every third world country we exploit through corporations we support, still high levels of racism, especially in the justice system, inhumane prison conditions, etc.)
Insert any Western European country here and I'm sure you'll find tons of human rights violations as well.
I'm being sarcastic, of course, in saying that these are the only things I'm interested in about the US. Just as this country does produce a great deal of good in addition to the bad, you should not dismiss the entire country of China just because it does some bad things.
The majority of the planets we've been able to detect so far are gas giants because their mass makes them easier to detect. Doesn't mean there aren't any Earth-like planets out there, though.
m
In fact, there was a recent discovery of a possibly more Earth-sized planet: http://news.bbc. co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_446000/446360.st
I urge you to take a look at VFXPro.com, which has everything you'll ever want to know about the fx industry, from interviews to technology reviews to job listings.
The questioner would probably like to take a look at those job listings.
As for the rest of you, many would probably be interested in this spotlight on The Matrix, as it contains several hi-res quicktime clips of various cool scenes in the movie.
Here are the direct links to those clips, for those of you too lazy to look around:
Neo Dodging Bullets
Agent Dodging Bullets
Helicopter Crash
The Tunnel
The Sentinels
Melting Mirror
Exactly. And even if it WERE a "First Post", which it wasn't, it should've gotten an "Offtopic" or "Flaimbait", not "Redundant". I mean, first posts, by definition, cannot be redundant.
Of course, you're implying that everyone how reads /. is in the United States, which is certainly not true. It's already bright and early in the morning in Europe, for instance.
Okay.. could whoever moderated the parent post please explain to me just how the very first post on an article can be "Redudant"?!
Of course, it defeats the entire purpose of the system for you to tell us this, because now anyone who finds one of yoru passwords can figure ou the rest, making changing your password pointless.
Of course, if you were really from Taiwan, you'd draw out that last "la" for about 5-10 seconds....
:P
I think his point was that Communism was being used as a TOOL for doing bad things.. Rather than Communism being the root of the problems. There are many very socialist countries in Western Europe/Scandinavia that are doing fine.
Communism itself is not evil. It's the use of it to justify actions that can be.
from what I understand, the word for 'for' is 'dui\', as in "dui\ ni~, yong\ Linux hen rong/.yi" (for you, using Linux is easy).
I guess that's just another type of 'for', though. Doing a 'true' literal translation is imposible, due to the fact that the languages are pretty diffrent...
Exactly. "For" in English maps to different words in Chinese depending on context. And so with a "literal" translation, I figured I'd at least translate to what is most correct in the context given.
I wish my Chinese were better.. I love the topic of translation.
If I ever get a msg that is Bcc'd to me (which isn't as unoften as one might think), I wouldn't see it for a while. (Unless I check my spam box every day.. in which case I might as well just get the spam.)
Also, interestingly enough, most of the spam I get at my primary address actually have my email address in the headers...
In a communist society, i must do what I am 'deemed to be good at' even though i like picking mushrooms off of rocks and throwing them at squirrels all day.
I think the inherent assumption behind Communism (the chief reason it is a practical failure) is that you DO want to.. that you would be intelligent and realize helping your fellow man is the best course of action and thus you will do it. That you would choose to cooperate in a Prisoner's Dillemma.
In real life, that just doesn't work.. In real life, the Prisoners always get jail time. That's why we need to make the world unlike the Prisoner's Dillemma and create a system where selfishness is not a detriment, but an advantage: i.e. capitalism.
after all, in an ideal world, where people aren't selfish and greedy, Socialism/Communism is an ideologically sound social structure (note I said social, NOT political.
I personally don't even agree that pure Communism would work. Just read any sf novel dealing with "utopian" futures. They inevitably seem incredibly stale and boring.
After all, wouldn't life just lack excitement if everyone were the same and you couldn't strive to be better?
- Communist.
First: Being Communist is inherently evil? I thought we got over that.. Oh well...
Second: The government does some pretty bad stuff, but that's just the fruit of an oppressive government in general, and has nothing to do with "Communism" per se. Communism is primarily an economy philosophy, and in terms of economy, China is practically more capitalistic in many ways than the U.S. these days.
- They've stolen extremely sensitive nuclear weapon information from us.
First of all, if you're referring to the Los Alamos case, I'd like to point out that, not only has no evidence whatsoever been produced, the government has not even CHARGED the guy (whose name I forget) with anything yet!
I mean, if you like this country so much, ever heard of a little something called "innocent until proven guilty"? And that's usually for people who have been charged, at least...
Secondly, I'm not sure if this guy stole secrets, but I'm sure China has espionage teams here in general.. SO?! Do you think the U.S. doesn't have espionage teams in China and practically every other country in the world? It's part of international politics.. EVERYONE is spying on everyone.. Just because one guy is allegedly caught, that makes the country evil? At worst, it indicates incompetence (in getting caught).
I really don't why stealing nuclear secrets would even be that big a deal.. I mean, governments are doing it to each other all the time. That doesn't make it right, but I think there are far worse things we can accuse the Chinese government (or our own) of than that.
- They repeatedly and blatently violate the human rights of its citizens and Nepal.
Isn't it Tibet that people are riled up against? Unless China has been doing something with Nepal I don't know about (which I kinda doubt, but is possible), I think you're referring to Tibet.
In any case, I do not contest the truth of that. I personally disagree with the actions of the Chinese government in many cases, though I should point out that the issues are less black & white as people suggest. (For instance, you may not agree with their arguments for "stability" at the expense of personal liberty, but if you look at the results of instability in Russia, you would have to admit that the issue is at least somewhat complex.)
What I do contest is your implication that China violates human rights, and thus we should stop doing business with them. You know what? The U.S. violates human rights all the time. And I'm not even talking about such fuzzy cases as the validity of its troops invading other countries without U.N. permission.. I'm talking about internal problems like prison torture. (Prisons are gov't facilities.)
Isn't your "wei2" supposed to be "wei4"?
Am I missing something?