Re:What, no editorial?
on
Red Hat Recap
·
· Score: 1
(sigh)
RH is in compliance with section 3 because they adhere to at least one of the stipulations ("a" to be exact) as required by said section.
The comply with stipulation "a" by including CDs with source when you buy a boxed set (which is thje only way you are going to get a legally distributed binary copy from them) and by making the SRPMs available for download at the same place you can get the RPMs from. (ie: the RHN)
In other words, because they distribute the source along with their binary packages, they are in compliance with the GPL. Your original allegation is that they were not in compliance, incorrect.
Your statement in this reply was that RH only allows downloads by everyone in order to comply with the GPL, that is also incorrect. RH distributes source along with the binary whenever they distribute a binary. Therefore, they are already compliant, without having to be generous. They let world+dog download the source to products for free that they are charging big bucks for.
Finally, though, you are correct in picking out the "distribution allowance" section when referring to non-free, third-party apps, or in this case, the items explicitly trademarked by RH. However, RH is still kind enough to let you download those items directly from them with the restriction that you may not re-distribute them.
Dubious? No. RH is a company that is actually making money using GPL "stuff" and is actively contributing back with kernel patches, bug fixes, and other little things like hiring GNOME and other project developers.
Anyways, have a happy Easter or spring equinox celebration or whatever... I shall not return to this thread as I will likely be gorged on Easter baking and other good stuff.
Cheers! John Gunkel (RHCE)
Re:What, no editorial?
on
Red Hat Recap
·
· Score: 1
Well,
The thing about binaries and the GPL that most people forget is that you are required to distribute source to anyone whom you distribute a binary to.
If you make a binary package of GPL'ed software available to three people, you are required to provide a copy of the exact source which built those binaries _to those three people_, if they ask.
The same holds true if you make your package available to five, fifty, or five thousand licencees. In all of these cases, you, as the packager (or author, or distributor) of this binary GPLd package get to decide whom to distribute your binary to. You get to impose any restrictions (price, redistribution, use, etc.) you want on the binary, as long as you provide the exact source to build those binaries to the people you distributed them to, when requested.
Now, when you look at what RH is doing, you will see that they are not even requiring people to be in the "club" which purchased binary licences (for the distro, or updates) from them in order to get a copy of the source to all of their packages. So basically, anyone with a copy of gcc and all of the SRPMs can recreate RHEL 3.0 (for example) without paying RH a cent. It is the people that don't want the hassle of compiling, and want support, who will gladly fork over money to RH.
The outcome of all of this is the realization that RH is not, in fact, selling a product, but rather, they are selling a subscription to a service which provides binary packages of GPLd stuff that you can freely download from them anyways. It is because they make their SRPMs freely available to everyone+dog that they can impose the percieved draconian licencing terms for the binary packages.
cheers! John
Re:What, no editorial?
on
Red Hat Recap
·
· Score: 1
Well, I'm probably responding to a troll but...
What RH is restricting is the use of their service, not availability to the software. They are not restricting the availability of the source, complete with their modifications (which is one of the big things the GPL is concerned about)
If you want to put those updates on your system, go download the SRPMs and run:
rpmbuild --rebuild foo.src.rpm
Really, the only thing that RH says you cannot do is rebuild and distribute any of the RPMS that have their trademarks in them.
And to kybosh the next rant, RH has gone out of their way to keep those trademarked items separate from other things and in their own packages.
Finally, if you work for one of those companies that either can't afford to by a support license, or has enough talent in house that they don't need one (the org. I work for falls into both categories) then go download whitebox.
Since they are built from the same SRPMs, they are practically the same thing, right down to the errata! (bug-compatible, if you will)
Yes, the load average is low. The CPU is oversized because to build a machine with 10 ethernet interfaces (2 inbuilt and 2 quads) properly in 1U we needed to move to a PE1550.
It is kept busy running iptables, squid, and a number of other protocol conversion thingies.
(to Uberman: it's.16.21 alas,.16.20 was rebooted last week)
I'm sure someone else can trump this.
I'm still going to be bummed when this one needs to be rebooted though.
The back office app is written with the Qt libs, it's i18n-ified (which was terribly important to us) and can handle multiple tax configurations (Canada's mix of HST - one tax, GST/PST - two taxes and a few bizzarre tax-on-tax situations we have as well).
At the checkout you can either use the backoffice app, or a dedicated POS app. It's written in TCL, so it can be customised any way you want. It is also suitable for running in the root window (ie: dickless machine with no WM) and is entirely keyboard driven. The last thing you want someone at the checkout doing is pointing and clicking.
I had an opportunity to spend a couple hours talking to one of the developers when they were in town doing an upgrade for one of their customers. He told me that there are alot of people that just download it and use the version that's there. Alot more start out that way, decide they really like it, then buy an upgrade licence. (which gets you periodic updates and source code, BTW)
The guys there are quite clueful, and are willing to help you do just about anything you want with the system, from setting up a single store, to having a distributed, or large centrally managed chain of stores.
This is one product I would have to say is well worth several times the price you pay for it.
Bought them on Clearance from Canadian Tire one year for $3.00
They are really quite cool. There are three strands of wire, one neutral, one string of red leds wired in one "direction" and another string of green LEDs wired in the other "direction".
The 120Hz flicker is actually quite fetching. As long as they are not in your peripheral vision though, otherwise they might just drive you batty...
We have 1000 users on our GroupWise postoffice. We used to use a certain third-party tool (Guinevere) to do av scanning and attachment blocking.
Well, when klez came along, that box would regularly bluescreen and just generally pee itself.
Sooooooo,
We redeployed a couple of old (266 mhz) machines as mail exchangers running sendmail and mimedefang. (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/) Works like a charm. MimeDefang is totaly configurable and integrates with sendmail via libmilter.
On a slow day, we process about 1500 messages. On top of that, we block a couple hundred atachments based on file type, most of which are klez and variants.
I am in the process of testing integration with mc'fee's uvscan. I can tell you it works great. We did, of course, throw a little bit more hardware at the problem (a pair of Dell Poweredge 350s) because it has been recognised as a "critical service" and besides, I _really_ don't feel comfortable trusing both my primary and secondary mail exchangers to a couple of aging ppros.
Yes, I've read the "Trusting Trust" article. Back in '96. Before it was a "classic".
What I'm getting at is, (and this also applies to the reply previous to yours,) that once you export the source from the tool, it is no longer under it's control.
Once you have source that is under your (and only your) control, you can audit it as you see fit, and complile it for whatever platform you want. (LGPL, remember?) Nuke the Obfuscated bits and replace them with your own, if you are so inclined, and once it reaches your level of trustworthyness, release it back to the community via public CVS.
Now let's look at the marketing aspect of this for a sec:
Oh, wait a second! you mean that your Uber Powerful Vesta (UPVesta) source control system is not even powerful enough to host it's own source?
Holy smoke! They have to go back to tarballs to distribute their stuff for Pete's sake! That's not leet enough for me.
(/self snips rant to prevent being branded as a troll)
Etc.
My point is, that Vesta is not a compiler, and, unless they have infiltrated the GCC team, it would seem that once you compile any source that has been exported (read wrested from the evil clutches of the source control system, not that Vesta is inherently evil) from Vesta, WYSIWYG!
Use their binary, download their code, export it, and put it into CVS if you really want.
I have to agree with them though, there is little point to building a tarball of the source. There are, after all, tons of other projects which use soley(sp?) CVS to distribute their code.
At least using Vesta to download it's own source, you can be pretty well guaranteed that you will be getting the latest and greatest version, and not some broken release that someone hasn't bothered to take off their website.
But of course, the only reason he was able to do that is because there was some record of work and timelines in the first place.
Re: customer re-education:
It takes a bit of work, but it's well worth it. Your manager (or maybe even you, it depends on the politics) needs to make it clear from the beginning that "This is the work we will do and this is how much it will cost." and that "Anything extra will cost you in time and money".
Once the base re-education occurs and the project scope/charter documents are signed off on, the ongoing maintenance of the customer will be substatially easier. Because the customer has bought in to the process by helping to develop the scope and charter, they will also likely be more forthcoming with ideas in the beginning, resulting in, of course, a more accurate scope/charter document. Finally, because the customer has to sign the charter before anything starts, they will be much more willing to participate in the ownership of the project.
And possibly one of the most importand side effects of signed off project scope and charter documents is that should the customer disagree with what you eventually deliver, you can always pull out your get out of free card (your signed off documents, for those of you not following me) and tell them to either fsck off, or to ante up for the extra work they want done.
The art of electrinics is definetly worth the buy.
Just be careful about the usual tech addiction, though. After I started working through it, (the book, not my addiction,) I got the urge to learn more about what my circuits were doing. Of course the natural thing was to obtain an osciliscope.
I did some trading and ended up with a simple two channel crt-based scope worth a couple hundred Canadian. Pretty basic, but it works well enough. After the initial excitement and probing of everything (electronic) that I could get my hands on, I got back to my projects and the book. Let me tell you, now that I can "see" what the circuits are doing, I have a much better understanding of why my circuits work (or not).
In retrospect, I think that I could have probably started off with just a logic probe, but I know that I would have quickly passed that point to where I would want an osciliscope anyway.
Cheers!
John
Re:Curiosity killed the cat
on
Star In A Jar
·
· Score: 1
> Creating a black hole the size of an atom has little to no effect on the planet because its
> mass is meager compared to everything else around it
> Remember: gravity doesn't change just because you're a singularity; a kilogram with no volume
> is still a kilogram, still a negligible factor
Well, that's the thing about a singularity, isn't it? It has no volume, no matter how much mass it has. It _may_ not decay or it may continue to gain mass.
As far as consuming small, nearby objects...
That's one thing babies (of all sorts) are very good at, and just look at how big most of them get. It would kinda suck (no pun intended) if junior ended up having our planet as a mid-morning snack.
That is, assuming that we are talking about a baby "typical" black hole, as opposed to an adolescent hybrid miniature black hole;)
Ars went though this a while back at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/4q99/athlonmobo/sho otem-2.html
I will concur with most of their findings. We sell alot of the GVC boards around here and even they are picky about the power supply sometimes. IMO, I don't think that it's payola or anything like that, I just think that the newer, faster mother boards require a cleaner, more powerful P/S.
John.
(Snarfed the appropo. bits from the article below.) >When I first got this board and plugged her in I was using a "PowerMan" >FSP300-60GI to deliver the juice. I was able to get the board to boot up, >but ye olde Win98 install would either BSOD or not boot! After working all >the mojo I know on the 'board, I decided that I just got a flukey mobo >that didn't work. When I got the second 'board in and had the same >problems, I knew something was fruity. > >Looking through my materials once again, I noticed a slip of paper >advertising the "recommended power supplies" for this board. Well, I >mean, what does "recommended" mean? For me, it meant it was a no-go >with my current setup. I called up and ordered a Sparkle Power >FSP300-60GT from The Chip Merchant, and after dropping that supply into >the box, lo and behold, the machine booted up with no further problems. >This tells us to double-check the power supply in our machine before >buying this board, or at least expect to purchase another supply with the >motherboard. BTW, the PowerMan supply did work with the BCMGVC >QS-750, so I know that it's a FIC-centric issue. And before you go dissin' >the PowerMan power supply, chew on this: it's an OEM from Sparkle, one >of the most well-respected suppliers in the industry, who made the other >power supply that worked with this mobo. Can you say FICkle? Not to >worry, though: you can check to see if your power supply is on the list. >Here's something odd: the list is maintained by AMD!
Ok, now we are down to offtopic administrivia, but the ucb package is not installed by default. It was probably put there by a sysadmin who likes typing "ps -aux" or "/usr/ucb/shutdown -r now" instead of "shutdown -i6 -g0 -y".
Ok, So I'm going for the offtopic moderation, but hey.
Netscape's client did it first, or at least that's the first place Iv'e run into it. It was a response to MS's "Rich Text" option in (what was then) the Exchange Client which allowed such things as bold, itialics and colours.
On the bright side, at least Netscape had the decency to implement this feature using some kind of standard.
That was a whole heap of stuff I'd like to forget. But hey, life is better now, and I'd have to say that the printers that has the *nicest* output, bar none, are the Lexmark Optra E series.
Iv'e been wondering about the MediaGX chips, there was some talk about them earlier on/. They now seem to be popping up in all sorts of things now, and I was wondering about peoples success with them.
Slashdot Mirror
(sigh)
RH is in compliance with section 3 because they adhere to at least one of the stipulations ("a" to be exact) as required by said section.
The comply with stipulation "a" by including CDs with source when you buy a boxed set (which is thje only way you are going to get a legally distributed binary copy from them) and by making the SRPMs available for download at the same place you can get the RPMs from. (ie: the RHN)
In other words, because they distribute the source along with their binary packages, they are in compliance with the GPL. Your original allegation is that they were not in compliance, incorrect.
Your statement in this reply was that RH only allows downloads by everyone in order to comply with the GPL, that is also incorrect. RH distributes source along with the binary whenever they distribute a binary. Therefore, they are already compliant, without having to be generous.
They let world+dog download the source to products for free that they are charging big bucks for.
Finally, though, you are correct in picking out the "distribution allowance" section when referring to non-free, third-party apps, or in this case, the items explicitly trademarked by RH. However, RH is still kind enough to let you download those items directly from them with the restriction that you may not re-distribute them.
Dubious? No. RH is a company that is actually making money using GPL "stuff" and is actively contributing back with kernel patches, bug fixes, and other little things like hiring GNOME and other project developers.
Anyways, have a happy Easter or spring equinox celebration or whatever... I shall not return to this thread as I will likely be gorged on Easter baking and other good stuff.
Cheers!
John Gunkel (RHCE)
Well,
The thing about binaries and the GPL that most people forget is that you are required to distribute source to anyone whom you distribute a binary to.
If you make a binary package of GPL'ed software available to three people, you are required to provide a copy of the exact source which built those binaries _to those three people_, if they ask.
The same holds true if you make your package available to five, fifty, or five thousand licencees. In all of these cases, you, as the packager (or author, or distributor) of this binary GPLd package get to decide whom to distribute your binary to. You get to impose any restrictions (price, redistribution, use, etc.) you want on the binary, as long as you provide the exact source to build those binaries to the people you distributed them to, when requested.
Now, when you look at what RH is doing, you will see that they are not even requiring people to be in the "club" which purchased binary licences (for the distro, or updates) from them in order to get a copy of the source to all of their packages. So basically, anyone with a copy of gcc and all of the SRPMs can recreate RHEL 3.0 (for example) without paying RH a cent. It is the people that don't want the hassle of compiling, and want support, who will gladly fork over money to RH.
The outcome of all of this is the realization that RH is not, in fact, selling a product, but rather, they are selling a subscription to a service which provides binary packages of GPLd stuff that you can freely download from them anyways. It is because they make their SRPMs freely available to everyone+dog that they can impose the percieved draconian licencing terms for the binary packages.
cheers!
John
Well, I'm probably responding to a troll but...
What RH is restricting is the use of their service, not availability to the software. They are not restricting the availability of the source, complete with their modifications (which is one of the big things the GPL is concerned about)
If you want to put those updates on your system, go download the SRPMs and run:
rpmbuild --rebuild foo.src.rpm
Really, the only thing that RH says you cannot do is rebuild and distribute any of the RPMS that have their trademarks in them.
And to kybosh the next rant, RH has gone out of their way to keep those trademarked items separate from other things and in their own packages.
Finally, if you work for one of those companies that either can't afford to by a support license, or has enough talent in house that they don't need one (the org. I work for falls into both categories) then go download whitebox.
Since they are built from the same SRPMs, they are practically the same thing, right down to the errata! (bug-compatible, if you will)
cheers!
John
Okay,
Which company, which product, etc...
I want to know, Iv'e been looking for a while, but everything iv'e found is vapour.
We are also using FOP.
You can get thouroughly anal about positioning, attributes, etc.
We are using it to generate Product spec sheets, provide a more "polished" look to invoices, order status inquiries... all sorts of stuff.
The really nice thing is that because it's java, you can start messing with it now, then have a pretty simple conversion when you upgrade to apache.
John
Sigh...
.16.21 alas, .16.20 was rebooted last week)
Since we're getting into the dick waving here:
$ uptime
6:21pm up 472 days, 11:09, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.01, 0.00
Yes, the load average is low. The CPU is oversized because to build a machine with 10 ethernet interfaces (2 inbuilt and 2 quads) properly in 1U we needed to move to a PE1550.
It is kept busy running iptables, squid, and a number of other protocol conversion thingies.
(to Uberman: it's
I'm sure someone else can trump this.
I'm still going to be bummed when this one needs to be rebooted though.
J
Quazar is a fantasic system.
The back office app is written with the Qt libs, it's i18n-ified (which was terribly important to us) and can handle multiple tax configurations (Canada's mix of HST - one tax, GST/PST - two taxes and a few bizzarre tax-on-tax situations we have as well).
At the checkout you can either use the backoffice app, or a dedicated POS app. It's written in TCL, so it can be customised any way you want. It is also suitable for running in the root window (ie: dickless machine with no WM) and is entirely keyboard driven. The last thing you want someone at the checkout doing is pointing and clicking.
I had an opportunity to spend a couple hours talking to one of the developers when they were in town doing an upgrade for one of their customers. He told me that there are alot of people that just download it and use the version that's there. Alot more start out that way, decide they really like it, then buy an upgrade licence. (which gets you periodic updates and source code, BTW)
The guys there are quite clueful, and are willing to help you do just about anything you want with the system, from setting up a single store, to having a distributed, or large centrally managed chain of stores.
This is one product I would have to say is well worth several times the price you pay for it.
Cheers!
John
Noma "Forever Bright"
UPC # 0 63407 13802 8
Bought them on Clearance from Canadian Tire one year for $3.00
They are really quite cool. There are three strands of wire, one neutral, one string of red leds wired in one "direction" and another string of green LEDs wired in the other "direction".
The 120Hz flicker is actually quite fetching. As long as they are not in your peripheral vision though, otherwise they might just drive you batty...
John
Hey.
We have 1000 users on our GroupWise postoffice. We used to use a certain third-party tool (Guinevere) to do av scanning and attachment blocking.
Well, when klez came along, that box would regularly bluescreen and just generally pee itself.
Sooooooo,
We redeployed a couple of old (266 mhz) machines as mail exchangers running sendmail and mimedefang. (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/) Works like a charm. MimeDefang is totaly configurable and integrates with sendmail via libmilter.
On a slow day, we process about 1500 messages. On top of that, we block a couple hundred atachments based on file type, most of which are klez and variants.
I am in the process of testing integration with mc'fee's uvscan. I can tell you it works great. We did, of course, throw a little bit more hardware at the problem (a pair of Dell Poweredge 350s) because it has been recognised as a "critical service" and besides, I _really_ don't feel comfortable trusing both my primary and secondary mail exchangers to a couple of aging ppros.
John
Cripes!
Driving in to work this morning was like riding a cinder block...
And that was with the block heater and interior car warmer running for two and a half hours beforehand.
Heh.
The funny thing about most of the people incanting the "Trusting Trust" article is that I bet that half of them have not really read it.
I'll be trying Vesta out sometime this week. I'm looking forward to see how CVS, Subversion and Vesta stack up to one another.
Cheers!
John
Yes, I've read the "Trusting Trust" article. Back in '96. Before it was a "classic".
What I'm getting at is, (and this also applies to the reply previous to yours,) that once you export the source from the tool, it is no longer under it's control.
Once you have source that is under your (and only your) control, you can audit it as you see fit, and complile it for whatever platform you want. (LGPL, remember?) Nuke the Obfuscated bits and replace them with your own, if you are so inclined, and once it reaches your level of trustworthyness, release it back to the community via public CVS.
Now let's look at the marketing aspect of this for a sec:
Oh, wait a second! you mean that your Uber Powerful Vesta (UPVesta) source control system is not even powerful enough to host it's own source?
Holy smoke! They have to go back to tarballs to distribute their stuff for Pete's sake! That's not leet enough for me.
(/self snips rant to prevent being branded as a troll)
Etc.
My point is, that Vesta is not a compiler, and, unless they have infiltrated the GCC team, it would seem that once you compile any source that has been exported (read wrested from the evil clutches of the source control system, not that Vesta is inherently evil) from Vesta, WYSIWYG!
John
Simple solution.
Use their binary, download their code, export it, and put it into CVS if you really want.
I have to agree with them though, there is little point to building a tarball of the source. There are, after all, tons of other projects which use soley(sp?) CVS to distribute their code.
At least using Vesta to download it's own source, you can be pretty well guaranteed that you will be getting the latest and greatest version, and not some broken release that someone hasn't bothered to take off their website.
John
Exactly!
But of course, the only reason he was able to do that is because there was some record of work and timelines in the first place.
Re: customer re-education:
It takes a bit of work, but it's well worth it. Your manager (or maybe even you, it depends on the politics) needs to make it clear from the beginning that "This is the work we will do and this is how much it will cost." and that "Anything extra will cost you in time and money".
Once the base re-education occurs and the project scope/charter documents are signed off on, the ongoing maintenance of the customer will be substatially easier. Because the customer has bought in to the process by helping to develop the scope and charter, they will also likely be more forthcoming with ideas in the beginning, resulting in, of course, a more accurate scope/charter document. Finally, because the customer has to sign the charter before anything starts, they will be much more willing to participate in the ownership of the project.
And possibly one of the most importand side effects of signed off project scope and charter documents is that should the customer disagree with what you eventually deliver, you can always pull out your get out of free card (your signed off documents, for those of you not following me) and tell them to either fsck off, or to ante up for the extra work they want done.
Cheers!
John.
Trimble makes a product called Accutime 2000 http://www.trimble.com/acutime2000.html That can basically plug right into the ether.
Hokey name, but I'm told it works pretty good. The local telco (MTS) uses one for it's time source.
Cheers!
John
The art of electrinics is definetly worth the buy.
Just be careful about the usual tech addiction, though. After I started working through it, (the book, not my addiction,) I got the urge to learn more about what my circuits were doing. Of course the natural thing was to obtain an osciliscope.
I did some trading and ended up with a simple two channel crt-based scope worth a couple hundred Canadian. Pretty basic, but it works well enough. After the initial excitement and probing of everything (electronic) that I could get my hands on, I got back to my projects and the book. Let me tell you, now that I can "see" what the circuits are doing, I have a much better understanding of why my circuits work (or not).
In retrospect, I think that I could have probably started off with just a logic probe, but I know that I would have quickly passed that point to where I would want an osciliscope anyway.
Cheers!
John
> Creating a black hole the size of an atom has little to no effect on the planet because its
;)
> mass is meager compared to everything else around it
> Remember: gravity doesn't change just because you're a singularity; a kilogram with no volume
> is still a kilogram, still a negligible factor
Well, that's the thing about a singularity, isn't it? It has no volume, no matter how much mass it has. It _may_ not decay or it may continue to gain mass.
As far as consuming small, nearby objects...
That's one thing babies (of all sorts) are very good at, and just look at how big most of them get. It would kinda suck (no pun intended) if junior ended up having our planet as a mid-morning snack.
That is, assuming that we are talking about a baby "typical" black hole, as opposed to an adolescent hybrid miniature black hole
John
He is the keynote at a conference in Winnipeg this year, so we have a bio and stuff on him on the TechQuest Site:
http://www.tech quest.mb.ca/quest.phtml?area=keynotes&article=taps cott
Regards,
John.
Ars went though this a while back at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/4q99/athlonmobo/sho otem-2.html
I will concur with most of their findings. We sell alot of the GVC boards around here and even they are picky about the power supply sometimes. IMO, I don't think that it's payola or anything like that, I just think that the newer, faster mother boards require a cleaner, more powerful P/S.
John.
(Snarfed the appropo. bits from the article below.)
>When I first got this board and plugged her in I was using a "PowerMan"
>FSP300-60GI to deliver the juice. I was able to get the board to boot up,
>but ye olde Win98 install would either BSOD or not boot! After working all
>the mojo I know on the 'board, I decided that I just got a flukey mobo
>that didn't work. When I got the second 'board in and had the same
>problems, I knew something was fruity.
>
>Looking through my materials once again, I noticed a slip of paper
>advertising the "recommended power supplies" for this board. Well, I
>mean, what does "recommended" mean? For me, it meant it was a no-go
>with my current setup. I called up and ordered a Sparkle Power
>FSP300-60GT from The Chip Merchant, and after dropping that supply into
>the box, lo and behold, the machine booted up with no further problems.
>This tells us to double-check the power supply in our machine before
>buying this board, or at least expect to purchase another supply with the
>motherboard. BTW, the PowerMan supply did work with the BCMGVC
>QS-750, so I know that it's a FIC-centric issue. And before you go dissin'
>the PowerMan power supply, chew on this: it's an OEM from Sparkle, one
>of the most well-respected suppliers in the industry, who made the other
>power supply that worked with this mobo. Can you say FICkle? Not to
>worry, though: you can check to see if your power supply is on the list.
>Here's something odd: the list is maintained by AMD!
Ok, now we are down to offtopic administrivia, but the ucb package is not installed by default. It was probably put there by a sysadmin who likes typing "ps -aux" or "/usr/ucb/shutdown -r now" instead of "shutdown -i6 -g0 -y".
;)
I happen to be one of those sysadmins.
John.
Ok, So I'm going for the offtopic moderation, but hey.
Netscape's client did it first, or at least that's the first place Iv'e run into it. It was a response to MS's "Rich Text" option in (what was then) the Exchange Client which allowed such things as bold, itialics and colours.
On the bright side, at least Netscape had the decency to implement this feature using some kind of standard.
AND...
At least Netscape is realatively well sandboxed.
John.
Remember Microsoft at work?
And the WinWriter line of printers?
That was a whole heap of stuff I'd like to forget. But hey, life is better now, and I'd have to say that the printers that has the *nicest* output, bar none, are the Lexmark Optra E series.
Nice looking printers too.
John.
It looks like they have some psion software on the sate as well. Probably simcity as well.
John.
Hack!=Crack
dognamnit!
John.
or just the plain old 6x86 stuff.
/. They now seem to be popping up in all sorts of things now, and I was wondering about peoples success with them.
Iv'e been wondering about the MediaGX chips, there was some talk about them earlier on
Any takers?
John.