Keep up the good work. The world needs to know that there are people like you on the internet: people who have nothing better to do than to harass a homeless and unemployed man (for whatever reason) behind the veil of network anonymity.
As I was reading TFA I followed this link to an article about the new GUI complete with screenshots.
After viewing the screenshots I've determined that most of the new features in Vista are a rehash of the same graphical tools that sysadmins have been using for years--except now they're brushed up with Apple polish and included on mass market consumer m0dels. The vast majority of the population won't ever care about or use them. The desktop seems to be the MS edition of Sun's Looking Glass whose capabilities have come to fruition in the free software realm through Gnome, Enlightenment, Beryl, and KDE.
The question I have is: what is really new and improved in Vista?
The progression from Win95, through 98, through 2k, through ME, through XP, to Vista is like reading a flame war between two contestants who never give up: each revision expands on the previous base to produce a progressively larger work. To be fair current GNU/Linux offerings seem to be inheriting the same progressive bloat though not to the same extent. Unlike flame war contestants, though, OS designers are supposed to look for ways to streamline the final product and deliver top performance with maximum efficiency. While Vista has (by screenshots) top performance it isn't much further ahead of free software for the millions which MS has spent preparing it.
In conclusion I'll definitely agree: Don't bother.
While I'll forever be a free software advocate I do need to give proper recognition for a good and true endeavor by the other team:
By following the money trail, Microsoft researchers were able to track the flow from big-name advertisers to search engine spammers. Someone needs to take a similar approach to find out where taxpayer money has been going while we've been in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Agreed, and here are two applicable threads from Slashdot history:
From this thread
In the real world, holding on to useless stuff costs a nontrivial amount of money. Everything needs space, which either costs money or takes away from your living space, and it needs to be organized, which gets significantly harder with more stuff. With computers, though, there is a very low cost of archiving things after they are deemed no longer useful. In support of the comment:
What about the other tapes in the cycle? Did you not test it before? What about data recovery on the hard disks? This question has been raised before
There are probably more than a hundred different archives, tarballs, and tape backups from which they could salvage most, if not all, of the poor woman's e-mail.
also seen in cards by Turtle Beach and others Because the au88x0 drivers are so much better... not.:-)
7.1 SuperWOWHyperCool sound with 1024 voices of synth playback, etc That's what I see to be the real battle that Creative faces: there's only so much to be done at the hardware level with sound cards and, for the most part, it's already been done.
didn't pop and click all the time There was an exploit for emu10k1 drivers (is that Audigy or just Live?) which was turned into a full blown trojan. It's possible that the circuitry on the card has been overloaded and the popping and clicking that you hear is caused by hardware degradation.
would require the current browser to be nearly bug free It's good that you recognize this mitigating factor.
businesses are beginning to run nearly strictly on web interfaces It's a security nightmare. Even at highly classified military subcontractors they're using webapps for timesheet maintenance. Who audits the code for the webapp? Next thing you know the new intern (maybe even a part-time temp-to-hire who came in just to handle shipping and receiving) has rooted the timesheet server, knows all the project numbers, knows all the project names, and knows who spends their time on exactly what--from the QA secretary up to the full bird colonel divison chief. Next thing after that the new intern has used their root on the timesheet server to spread a trojan to every client web browser which connects to update their timesheet--from the QA secretary up to the full bird colonel divison chief. Now they have a trojan and a keylogger on every employee's computer--from the QA secretary up to the full bird colonel divison chief. Top secret password mania posted the world over--using a few remailers, IRC botnets, and some obfuscated spam--by the end of the next working day! Zero day, totally 'leet, never before seen usernames and passwords to US military bases, installments, depots, CBW stockpiles, nuclear facilities, and technological research organizations.
Personally, I think it's a great idea While I understand your point of view from the ease of use and interoperability side I seriously don't think that the codebases involved are sufficiently bulletproof to be acceptable from the network security side.
Good grief
XUL is not that slow...I don't recommend writing a video game in it Given that the Mozilla/Firefox browsers have such an enormous codebase to be maintained and debugged would you recommend that the efforts of those developers be spent writing a window manager and DE based on it? My experience indicates that, for the greater good of the free software community, it would be wiser for them to devote themselves to perfecting their own code and cross-pollinating with the existing window manager and desktop environment groups.
it's more than fast enough to run a lot of applications. The FireFox GUI, for example, is a Javascript application sitting on top of the XUL/XPCOM system I wasn't aware that the javascript contribution was as strong as this indicates though it does lend itself to an explanation of a large number of issues. Still, though, would you want a comprehensive network application such as a web browser to be directly integrated with the code and memory allocations which make up the display? Maybe if the comprehensive network application were bulletproof. My understanding is that the underlying structure of the javascript environment is too rickety to ensure that an application built within it will ever be bulletproof. Modern web browsers, IMHO, already have too much unrestricted access to the rest of the system. This can be configured away by the user but only at a severe cost to modern day functionality. Cookies are an illustration of this point: disabling cookies for an entire day would tank a normal daily network routine.
Which is why the JNode folks are working on a fully modern OS written in 100% Java. Including the kernel and drivers I appreciate that java, in and of itself, isn't slow but that the slowness is often brought about by layering the jvm on top of the already existent OS. The jvm environment reminds me of the BASIC interpreter which the beloved C=64 provided in that it works like a jit compiler. While I would be interested in working with JNode--in the same way that I'd be interested to work with BSD, Hurd, and AROS--I can't help but ask what java provides to modern day programming that C doesn't.
You do know, right, that your original "analysis" is still there where people can read it? It's obvious that the comment has not been removed by the system managers--this question is frivolous.
Your analysis includes phrases like "the plight of the working world." This is a misquote. The original quote is,"The Dilbertization of IT brings the plight of the rest of the working world to the IT industry." The rest of the paragraph is nothing more than a meaningless diatribe building on the misquote.
That is a completely correct use of that term in this context, and your only reaction is to scream "flamebait!" There are two explanations for the misquote which you cling to: you're a complete moron or it is flamebait. Due to your misquote the rest of your comment is just a meaningless rant.
since obviously the person to whom you responded was very deliberately talking about you Yes, that much was obvious, but due to their repeated demonstrations of missing the point they ended up demonstrating their own characteristics.
the thing that got you all personal and whiny Was you being all personal and b**chy.
complaining about being personally "targeted" Which is exactly what you're doing, and you've lost all concept of the content of the original thread.
That is not a "personal attack," Yes, it is, and it's the only thing you've been doing since you arrived in this thread.
There is no other context Maybe you could try the context of TFA.
the original picture of the world that you described The world described by TFA. *yawn* You are very boring.
I obviously saw your comment and could not pass up the opportunity to post a personal diatribe.
a rationalization for feeling sorry for yourself Where you come up with this I have no idea.
Doesn't matter WHAT you mean Actually, it does matter what I mean.
it only matters that you chose words that say that It only matters that, no matter what I say, you're a perpetual flaming b**ch.
"Nobody?" Not a single person, nowhere, in any company? Nobody? What part of "on the ladder of social control" did you miss? I'm perfectly in line with TFA.
Let's assume that's really how you see it. As long as you operate on that flawed assumption I can skip the rest.
Don't you HEAR yourself? Yes, and if you hear whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth when you read my posts, then you're hearing yourself too.
Parse error. I couldn't find any more content... not that there was any content to begin with... but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
XUL is too slow to make an entire DE Some people might try it as an exercise of their personal coding skill but I would hope that, as a whole, nobody in their right mind would standardize on it. I guess that's the problem: if someone (a developer) does it, and it catches on with the other developers, then the rest of us won't have much of a choice because, over the course of a year or two, there will gradually be just too many things which won't work properly unless they are sufficiently similar to the developers' systems.
Can you imagine a desktop environment WRITTEN IN JAVASCRIPT They tried it with Java and decided that the community had enough OSs. I've heard of C compilers written in shell script; similar concept and probably just as comparably slow.
screaming for holes to be found and malware to creep across boundaries Exactly. It's one thing to have a comprehensive software package--it's another thing entirely to blur the lines of the sandbox (which, inside the web browser, are weak enough to begin with).
I suppose the argument could be made that, with webapps becoming more prominent and virtualization being the hot new buzzword, there's no reason to delay the inevitable. If that were the case, though, then we should be looking to go back to OS on a chip.
Quote:
I'm only proposing that we make a desktop environment, the same thing that KDE and Gnome, are. I can understand the desire to make everything XUL from top to bottom but, unless they have completely fixed (not improved--fixed) all possible bugs in the browser, their efforts are better directed elsewhere. Unless they plan on replacing the X11 system then it would be better for the community (as a growing whole) for them to maintain a diverse and working relationship with the existing groups. Cross-pollinate--don't assimilate.
The only reason I mentioned a "Mozilla OS" is because we'd probably also want to release distributions for one of more specific kernels as a whole OS Most distros have Mozilla packages. Is this a proposition for another distro?
other applications built with the Mozilla platform available then. Currently there are plenty of kernels to put a Mozilla desktop environment on. That's really the point. Unless they plan on making a true MozillaOS, converting all the middle layers of the OS into a ROM chip, and putting MozOS in the boot sector then, again, the efforts of a project are best spent improving code, debugging, and interfacing with the other prominent community projects.
Maybe we need to remind ourselves of the trials, tribulations, and pitfalls of both cruft (old junk) and feature creep (glitz and glam just for the sake of glitz and glam are neat--but they don't make for a good project path until it's stabilized).
My very first response to you was a refutation I'm reading it again and it's still a diatribe of flamebait:
Nah...You're whining...You seem to think...Here's a clue...if you don't like it...just like you think...(as you seem to think)...you obviously...you can just leave...your new Workers Paradise. See? Nothing but personalization, flamebait, and plain wrong.
The resulting thread was me pointing With a flaming finger.
which I've brought up routinely in different contexts And done nothing but posted the same old tired flamebait and crap over and over.
See the several specific points made above Way ahead of you.
to which you simply reply "you're wrong," Which you are
rather than actually addressing. See the specific excerpts above. There's nothing to address. It's all a demonstration of an insolent b**ch making proliferic use of flamebait.
For your own sake, do you realize that? Yes, I realize how coincidental it is that the three of you showed up on the same day to do nothing but post flamebait.
I frequently post I'm the only one that gets so much flamebait from you, though, right? I do realize that it's only coincidence. Maybe I'm the only one who hits you right in the heart.
twisted world view imagines dark conspiracies of business owners and evil financiers Call them "business plans", otherwise you're just continuing on with flamebait.
just like you've fabricated the perceptions that informed your first comment My first comment was based on TFA.
you're stating an imagined conspiracy between three slashdot users It was only coincidence. You're taking it awfully personally. Did it strike a chord?
now people reading your comments Will see how you are flaming like no one else can.
complete strangers You know that isn't true. For all the flaming you do you should come out of the closet.
Really. Insolent heavy-handed b**ch, or world renowned flamer, which are you?
Please revise your statement according to the following suggestions and resubmit.
So your point, now, is that it is not the case that management, as a class, acts in a particular way?
The point is that some management acts in some ways and those ways determine the course of the industry.
Because that is exactly contrary to your previous ramblings.
The word "ramblings" is flamebait.
Regardless of which hair you want to split
More flamebait as the post reads quite well without it.
(now, as opposed to your previous sweeping pronouncement about the condition of the IT landscape)
"Sweeping" is flamebait as "some of" was clearly noted in the previous revision.
you are now allowing for the fact that not every employee or manager or the relationships or their circumstances are the same
This has always been allowed for though the major contributing behaviors, written about in TFA, were the topic of discussion.
Shame it only took you a dozen or so times
More flamebait.
copying/pasting the phrase "you're wrong"
Which you are.
before you corrected yourself.
Before the point was expressed in a form which you are capable of understanding.
So, now that you admit
More flamebait
that there isn't a limit to the sort of creative potential that a talented IT person can put to work
No limits, except those imposed by a particular management style, were ever set.
(since, as you now admit
More flamebait
there are places where that's an option)
There are always options. There's no point here except to continue the flamebait.
what is the entire point of your original
To discuss TFA and the systems which have caused it.
rant
Flamebait
which you now contradict?
You're wrong, again. Please revise.
IT people who want to do something more creative, and have the talent to do so, can just go someplace where that's the corporate culture
Unless the management style preventing them from doing so is becoming more prevalent. This was the point of TFA and my initial analysis.
They, and their creativity-friendly new managers
The point of TFA and my initial analysis was that creativity-friendly managers are increasingly uncommon. My original analysis identified the larger reasons why this is becoming the case.
And this, of course
Of course this is flamebait.
is exactly the scenario that you said isn't reality
You're wrong, again.
which is why I and other people countered what you said
You're wrong, again. What you did was launch a diatribe of flamebait and ad hominem attacks--just as in this comment.
Your hissy fit
More flamebait.
about having what you said countered
You're wrong, again, as what you did was launch a diatribe of flamebait and ad hominem attacks--just as in this comment.
is the thing that drew appropriate comments about how you're conducting your conversation
You're wrong, again.
By the way
More flamebait.
you hang onto a sense of victimization
Flamebait, and wrong.
There is only one person controlling what an IT person makes in an economy that can't hire enough good ones: the IT person him/herself
You're wrong, and the TFA and my original analysis describes why.
If you don't have the creativity and talent to find a job
This is personalizing, flamebait, ad hominem.
realize that you don't have it
Or, as TFA and my analysis points out, realize that management increasingly doesn't make talen top priorit
Your brain has holes in it. Here, let me fix them for you so that you're not so needlessly argumentative.
And some of those people are the some of the ones that are maybe creative enough and maybe persuasive enough to have no s/no/less of a/ problem at all getting the some of the upper part of the food chain seeing that creativity and entrepeneurial spark as somewhat of an an asset. Some of The people who have that creativity and level of creative skill are not the ones, as long as they are properly compensated for their work, who complain about The Man enslaving s/The\ Man\ enslaving/being\ enslaved/ them in their cubicles. some of Those people tend to leap right out of that setting when management approves and into roles other than DBA, firewall admin, or CAT5-puller.
If people such as you crowded around me all day long I'd be driven to drinking... or worse.
But YOU said This isn't about me but if you want to make it about me just because you have an infantile need to target people on the internet, that's your business.
You do not qualify those statements I commented on the systems which prompted TFA. What is it that's short circuiting in your brain that mandates that you attack me?
pointing out your sweeping generalizations and refuting them You haven't refuted antyhing. You've made personal attack after personal attack after personal attack. That's all you know how to do.
than saying "you're wrong" Which you are. Not once did you try to discuss content.
calling it a personal attack Which 99% of your posting has been.
you have a smug superiority complex You're looking in the mirror.
a discussion of any substance Which you haven't provided.
don't have a fit You are the only person upset here.
you sound, to say the least, a little bit paranoid in your perspective That's so overused I'm surprised you think it holds any weight anymore. It's like calumny.
your initial tone Your ears obviously need cleaning.
set the tone and content for all responses that followed Like the first response, which began all of this, which started out with the wrong assumption to begin with. All you've done is carry on from there like a screaming b**ch in the middle of a divorce argument.
Don't complain about something No complaints here.
act hurt when multiple people You, DD, and NDP, three relatively uncommon posters, all came out of the woodwork on Saturday and, with the exception of one token post in another discussion made by you, specifically targetted me. What are the chances that this flame event was planned? Duh. You're no different from the MH42, Red_Foreman, and RailGunner ass blister team.
There's no official policy to release beta software. Only coincidence is involved when deadlines are rushed in order to be first to market with a product. The second product might as well be the ninety-fifth product as far as most consumers are concerned. Many people have enough trouble learning one system and have no inclination to purchase a second box full of a different type of BSOD.
Companies are on employee-controlling power trips, right? No Some are, to some extent, but feel free to ignore that to support your rant.
People running companies, or the investors that fund them, make too much money, right? No. Some do so illegally but feel free to ignore that to support your rant.
you maintain that indeed, IT staffers aren't allowed to be creative I was discussing TFA and quoting it but feel free to ignore that to support turning this into a personal attack. I thought Slashdot was about discussing the content material but all you want to do is play loudmouth b**ch.
just educational rhetoric or trolling You have summed up your entire existence--though any value of your education is in doubt.
I don't need substance when everything you said (and continue to say) was (and is) wrong. Most likely it is deliberate trolling--as evidenced by your gratuitous use of insult, derision, and plain b**ch tactics.
One subset of primates learned how to exploit the others for fun and profit.
Ten thousand years later the game is more complex (bigger population sets, larger financial numbers, includes multiple social levels) but it's still the same.
Slashdot Mirror
Keep up the good work. The world needs to know that there are people like you on the internet: people who have nothing better to do than to harass a homeless and unemployed man (for whatever reason) behind the veil of network anonymity.
As I was reading TFA I followed this link to an article about the new GUI complete with screenshots.
After viewing the screenshots I've determined that most of the new features in Vista are a rehash of the same graphical tools that sysadmins have been using for years--except now they're brushed up with Apple polish and included on mass market consumer m0dels. The vast majority of the population won't ever care about or use them. The desktop seems to be the MS edition of Sun's Looking Glass whose capabilities have come to fruition in the free software realm through Gnome, Enlightenment, Beryl, and KDE.
The question I have is: what is really new and improved in Vista?
The progression from Win95, through 98, through 2k, through ME, through XP, to Vista is like reading a flame war between two contestants who never give up: each revision expands on the previous base to produce a progressively larger work. To be fair current GNU/Linux offerings seem to be inheriting the same progressive bloat though not to the same extent. Unlike flame war contestants, though, OS designers are supposed to look for ways to streamline the final product and deliver top performance with maximum efficiency. While Vista has (by screenshots) top performance it isn't much further ahead of free software for the millions which MS has spent preparing it.
In conclusion I'll definitely agree: Don't bother.
From this thread In the real world, holding on to useless stuff costs a nontrivial amount of money. Everything needs space, which either costs money or takes away from your living space, and it needs to be organized, which gets significantly harder with more stuff. With computers, though, there is a very low cost of archiving things after they are deemed no longer useful. In support of the comment: What about the other tapes in the cycle? Did you not test it before? What about data recovery on the hard disks? This question has been raised before There are probably more than a hundred different archives, tarballs, and tape backups from which they could salvage most, if not all, of the poor woman's e-mail.
It belongs on one of these.
Please read these two helpful hints for composition of a comment and resubmit.
I'll be happy to provide editorial feedback when you have properly structured your thoughts in a manner which is coherent above a second grade level.
Please revise and resubmit.
Parse error. I couldn't find any more content... not that there was any content to begin with... but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I suppose the argument could be made that, with webapps becoming more prominent and virtualization being the hot new buzzword, there's no reason to delay the inevitable. If that were the case, though, then we should be looking to go back to OS on a chip.
Maybe we need to remind ourselves of the trials, tribulations, and pitfalls of both cruft (old junk) and feature creep (glitz and glam just for the sake of glitz and glam are neat--but they don't make for a good project path until it's stabilized).
So your point, now, is that it is not the case that management, as a class, acts in a particular way?
The point is that some management acts in some ways and those ways determine the course of the industry.
Because that is exactly contrary to your previous ramblings.
The word "ramblings" is flamebait.
Regardless of which hair you want to split
More flamebait as the post reads quite well without it.
(now, as opposed to your previous sweeping pronouncement about the condition of the IT landscape)
"Sweeping" is flamebait as "some of" was clearly noted in the previous revision.
you are now allowing for the fact that not every employee or manager or the relationships or their circumstances are the same
This has always been allowed for though the major contributing behaviors, written about in TFA, were the topic of discussion.
Shame it only took you a dozen or so times
More flamebait.
copying/pasting the phrase "you're wrong"
Which you are.
before you corrected yourself.
Before the point was expressed in a form which you are capable of understanding.
So, now that you admit
More flamebait
that there isn't a limit to the sort of creative potential that a talented IT person can put to work
No limits, except those imposed by a particular management style, were ever set.
(since, as you now admit
More flamebait
there are places where that's an option)
There are always options. There's no point here except to continue the flamebait.
what is the entire point of your original
To discuss TFA and the systems which have caused it.
rant
Flamebait
which you now contradict?
You're wrong, again. Please revise.
IT people who want to do something more creative, and have the talent to do so, can just go someplace where that's the corporate culture
Unless the management style preventing them from doing so is becoming more prevalent. This was the point of TFA and my initial analysis.
They, and their creativity-friendly new managers
The point of TFA and my initial analysis was that creativity-friendly managers are increasingly uncommon. My original analysis identified the larger reasons why this is becoming the case.
And this, of course
Of course this is flamebait.
is exactly the scenario that you said isn't reality
You're wrong, again.
which is why I and other people countered what you said
You're wrong, again. What you did was launch a diatribe of flamebait and ad hominem attacks--just as in this comment.
Your hissy fit
More flamebait.
about having what you said countered
You're wrong, again, as what you did was launch a diatribe of flamebait and ad hominem attacks--just as in this comment.
is the thing that drew appropriate comments about how you're conducting your conversation
You're wrong, again.
By the way
More flamebait.
you hang onto a sense of victimization
Flamebait, and wrong.
There is only one person controlling what an IT person makes in an economy that can't hire enough good ones: the IT person him/herself
You're wrong, and the TFA and my original analysis describes why.
If you don't have the creativity and talent to find a job
This is personalizing, flamebait, ad hominem.
realize that you don't have it
Or, as TFA and my analysis points out, realize that management increasingly doesn't make talen top priorit
Your brain has holes in it. Here, let me fix them for you so that you're not so needlessly argumentative.
And some of those people are the some of the ones that are maybe creative enough and maybe persuasive enough to have no s/no/less of a/ problem at all getting the some of the upper part of the food chain seeing that creativity and entrepeneurial spark as somewhat of an an asset. Some of The people who have that creativity and level of creative skill are not the ones, as long as they are properly compensated for their work , who complain about The Man enslaving s/The\ Man\ enslaving/being\ enslaved/ them in their cubicles. some of Those people tend to leap right out of that setting when management approves and into roles other than DBA, firewall admin, or CAT5-puller.
If people such as you crowded around me all day long I'd be driven to drinking... or worse.
There's no official policy to release beta software. Only coincidence is involved when deadlines are rushed in order to be first to market with a product. The second product might as well be the ninety-fifth product as far as most consumers are concerned. Many people have enough trouble learning one system and have no inclination to purchase a second box full of a different type of BSOD.
I don't need substance when everything you said (and continue to say) was (and is) wrong. Most likely it is deliberate trolling--as evidenced by your gratuitous use of insult, derision, and plain b**ch tactics.
Get a life.
One subset of primates learned how to exploit the others for fun and profit.
Ten thousand years later the game is more complex (bigger population sets, larger financial numbers, includes multiple social levels) but it's still the same.