It's not for you. I don't complain that my TV or DVD player has no expansion ports. The iPad is an appliance for documents; not a general-purpose PC.
Yet it is priced like a general-purpose PC. People can spend their money, I have no problem with that...it just seems like spending money on something that offers you less is only OK when there is an Apple logo on it...
Sarcasm? You sound like an anti-Apple fanboi.
Not one single bit. I think Apple products are (generally) well designed, easy to use, reliable, and well built.
I just don't think charging a full computer price for something that is only half a computer is very fair to the consumer, whether they want it or not.
Who, exactly, is telling you that you MUST buy this device? Is Apple ORDERING you to buy one, like a mom orders a kid to finish his lima beans? Without that foundation, the rest of your argument pretty much falls apart. You want a general-purpose tablet, buy one. There have been locked-down tablets before. There will be more in the future. This is Apple's. There will always be a need for, and a supply of, general-purpose computers.
I've noticed that everyone seems to be focusing on my poor choice of words rather than my argument...wtg.
And there's the key point. Taco called the original iPod "lame" and Apple went on to sell 250,000,000 of them. They don't care what some geek on Slashdot--you, me, or him--thinks.
And here's the first half of my key point: what would they have lost by using a full-featured OS that still allowed you to use App Store applications? Hell, they could even keep the iPhone-like skin on it! The average person would still love how easily it could be used, and geeks like me would actually want the damn thing.
I'm not saying it isn't going to sell like gangbusters, because anything with an Apple logo sells well nowadays. I'm just saying that they ignored a segment of the market that they could have included ALONG WITH their main target market...yet didn't.
Really? They aren't trying to put anything past their customers. Apple makes it VERY CLEAR that this is not a general purpose computer. People will buy it, or not, and like it, or not. Just like any other device.
And that's the other half of my whole point. Why would I pay for a locked down, restricted half computer when I could buy an open, full computer at the same price? Here is a great example of one. hell, you could even make it a hackintosh and install OSX on it...the only difference is that the hardware wouldn't have the Apple logo stamped on it.
You are trying to convince me that paying more for a device that does less is somehow a good thing. It doesn't take a geek to see what's wrong with that statement.
And bitching at me for voicing my opinion is just as silly.;-)
Oh, and for the record, I was VERY interested in this thing until I learned it would be locked down, maximum security prison style. Even with the hardware limitations (no expandable options, no card reader, no flash support, no multitasking) I still would have bought one in a heartbeat if it were based around a full-featured OS instead of a ported version of what the iPhone runs.
A bad device? No, not bad, but overpriced considering you are locked into whatever Apple deems worthy of running.
Why not just get an ASUS T91MT? It's Intel based, you could prolly install OSX on it. There you go: functions exactly like an Apple Tablet without being locked down. Have fun.
Seriously. The only reason this thing is getting the publicity that it is comes from having that Apple logo on it. If it had a Microsoft logo or Google logo on it with all the same benefits and limitations, people would be avoiding it like the plauge.
Nope, no one is telling you that you are going to spend anything.
Hope that clears up the confusion.
Thanks, smart ass;-)
A Kindle DX has about the same entry price, and is about the same size, and does less (OTOH, it does have a 3G connection, which you have to pay more for on the iPad.)
You're absolutely right, and I've told people that a Kindle DX is a waste of money as well (I advocate non-locked-down e-readers that support a wide range of formats.)
And paying about the price of a high-end, dedicated ebook reader to do it. Which has many of the same limitations, and less breadth of functionality (though it is better for the specific purpose of reading ebooks.)
And I have the same problems with high-end e-readers.
The iPad is hardly uniquely limited in the world of mobile devices.
Very true, but it had the potential to be far more than the delivered product. Keeping it locked to Apple's App store keeps things simple but Orwellian. Sorry, but if I'm dropping that much money on a device that looks and acts like a computer, I should be able to use it like one.
Had they gone with a ported version of OSX or a newer, less restricted OS, I would have been on board even with the problems I have regarding the hardware. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way.
As it stands, if I want a tablet I'll just go with an ASUS T91MT for now, thanks.
Apple has created a device that follows a design philosophy started with their first generation iPod: giving our customers control over their own device is bad. Orwellian control is the only way to ensure we get our cut. We're rich, bitch!
I don't see anything about the hardware that precludes you from using a stylus. If you really think this is a huge market, then write and app for that and distribute styluses; you'll be rich!
Believe me, if I had the programming skill to do so I would. No matter, I'm sure SOMEONE out there will do it...that is, if Apple approves the app, of course.
Adobe COULD be the reason why it doesn't support flash, but I think a more likely reason is Apple keeping control of the system...if it supported flash, you could write an app for it and distribute it without Apple getting their cut.
I never said it wouldn't be popular, I just said it's a missed opportunity.
How much of that $500+ do you think is paying for porting the iPhone OS over? Why wouldn't they just port over OSX so we have a fully functioning computer instead of a locked down and hindered device? Why not just make a new OS skinned to LOOK like the iPhone OS, but without all the limitations?
The reason people are so pissed is because it COULD have been amazing. I could learn to deal with no USB ports, no SD Card slot, no upgrade path...I could learn to deal with that.
But using the iPhone OS, meaning that everything is locked down tight? No flash or multitasking support? Sorry. Not for the $500 entry fee. Theys hould have ported OSX or created a new OS for this thing. Considering the price point and its locked-down design, there is no reason to buy it.
Had they not used the iPhone OS and instead made it fully functional, I would buy three.
First off, it is based on iPhone OS 3.2. What the hell?!?!??! So you're telling me I'm going to spend at minimum $500 on a device that is just as locked down as an iPod Touch or iPhone? I'm going to have to hack the damn thing just so I can run an unapproved application? Great. Thanks for that, Apple.
Secondly, it is completely devoid of ANYTHING...no external ports (except when using dongles hooked up to the 30-pin connector...huzzah for accessories:/), no flash support, no multitasking (oh great, so I can't have AIM and Safari open at the same time? Epic Fail.)...it just seems to be an extremely restricted device considering the $500 entry price.
Third, what exactly are you getting for that price? Let's look at the fully loaded 64 gig/3G-enabled version. For roughly $800, you are buying a locked-down device with zero expansion options, zero USB ports or flash card readers, and no way to upgrade. For $800 you could put together a full-blown gaming computer or buy a REALLY nice laptop...hell, you could even buy a used tablet convertible and get the benefits of a tablet AND a laptop! But no, with Apple you get a locked down non-widescreen non-expandable device.
Fourth (and this isn't that big of a deal, but it is still a missed opportunity) Apple should have included a stylus with the system. Think about the people that use Wacom tablets, like the Penny Arcade guys or countless other digital graphic artists/designers. If Apple had included a stylus and well-designed software, this thing could be used as a portable Wacom tablet. Digital artists would have MURDERED each other for a chance to buy this thing had they included a stylus. Nope, that's a whole 'nother market Apple shunned with this thing.
Honestly, my biggest issue with it is the fact that it uses the iPhone operating system. By keeping it locked down like that, they have severely limited the appeal of this thing...they should have either ported over OSX (which would work GREAT on a tablet with minimal interface changes) or just built a new operating system from the ground up. But no, they decided to put on a velvet glove and slap the shit out of their customers...and they'll buy it! They are so focused on the fact that the hand has a velvet glove they are ignoring the fact that they are being slapped by it!
Basically, this COULD have been an amazing device...but regardless of what they did right, Apple made some unbelievably stupid decisions that puts it firmly in the "what's the point" category for me.
It is also worth mentioning that if this tablet had been announced with all the same features (both missing and included), but it had a Microsoft or Google logo instead of an Apple logo, people would be treating it like the plague. Fanboyism is a terrible disease.
It's possible that they were putting up with it before because of the revenue they were generating, but the hack was enough to cause them to say screw it.::shrug:: who knows
While I agree with you on a human level, from a business standpoint what Google did was a bold move. Companies as large as Google don't often voluntarily ignore a customer base as large as China over morals.::shrug:: not saying I agree with it, not saying it's right...just saying the way it normally is.
Agreed. Yes, they should have stood up against them in the very beginning, but better late than never. It will be interesting to see how this affects things long term...
I think it would be foolish to say Google isn't "evil" at all, but they certainly seem less so than many other companies their size. They have the potential to wield a HUGE amount of power, given the amount of data they have on such a large percentage of the population...but so far they seem to have kept themselves in check fairly well.
The mainstream press is delivering what people want to see, rather than what they need to see. Namely, lots of celebrity gossip and very little of substance.
^^^This, plus a bit of "opinion as news" thrown in as well.
The fact that people take folks like Beck and Olbermann seriously is frightening. Even more frightening is when someone's ideas or responses in a political discussion all come from a single news source.
I can accept people willingly living as sheep (hell, I certainly do), but people should at least form their own opinions. Sheesh.
Agreed. The closed nature of the app store has some semblance of keeping things in order...but really all it does is limit innovation. It isn't too hard to tell when an app is going to be a crapp (see what I did there?), but that's Apple for ya...iron fist wrapped in a velvet glove.
This is one of those situations like when the feds deal with the mob. You know it has to be them, there is no way there isn't...but without "proof", all you have are unsubstantiated claims.
Sometimes the justice system prevails...and sometimes it gets in its own way.
I used to have people's lives in my hands every day, and (in theory) have saved countless lives. I always enjoyed working as a mechanic, but one day I realized just how big of an impact I had. I was driving down a major road near where I live, and saw a woman in a Chrysler Town and Country slam on her brakes because a car cut her off. I noticed in her back seat were three kids, two of them in car seats...and then I recognized the license plate and bumper stickers.... I had done a full brake job (master cylinder, pads/rotors shoes/drums, the works) not two weeks prior on that minivan. It was because of me that woman was able to stop on a dime when she needed to.
That was when I realized just how important being a mechanic is...and that's also when I went from enjoying it as a hobby to loving it as a profession.
...that something strong enough to withstand space travel and atmospheric exit/entry can be so fragile.
"Hey, we have this contraption here that can take you to space and bring you back...all while keeping you alive! But don't breathe on it wrong, or it will fall apart..."
25 with no degree in a programming field? I don't expect to be making much:p
As a mechanic, I was making BANK. $50k a year at the age of 19 with a GED. I was making as much if not more than the teachers who told me I wasn't going to amount to anything:-) I loved doing it, but had to stop due to physical injury -_-;;
Slashdot Mirror
It's not for you. I don't complain that my TV or DVD player has no expansion ports. The iPad is an appliance for documents; not a general-purpose PC.
Yet it is priced like a general-purpose PC. People can spend their money, I have no problem with that...it just seems like spending money on something that offers you less is only OK when there is an Apple logo on it...
Sarcasm? You sound like an anti-Apple fanboi.
Not one single bit. I think Apple products are (generally) well designed, easy to use, reliable, and well built.
I just don't think charging a full computer price for something that is only half a computer is very fair to the consumer, whether they want it or not.
That said, once jailbroken the iTab should satisfy most of us.
I can understand hacking a device so that it can do more or work better, but...well...
I'm yelling this as loud as I can:
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO HACK A DEVICE TO MAKE IT WORTH USING. When there are other options that cost less and already do more, we call that a fail.
Who, exactly, is telling you that you MUST buy this device? Is Apple ORDERING you to buy one, like a mom orders a kid to finish his lima beans? Without that foundation, the rest of your argument pretty much falls apart. You want a general-purpose tablet, buy one. There have been locked-down tablets before. There will be more in the future. This is Apple's. There will always be a need for, and a supply of, general-purpose computers.
I've noticed that everyone seems to be focusing on my poor choice of words rather than my argument...wtg.
And there's the key point. Taco called the original iPod "lame" and Apple went on to sell 250,000,000 of them. They don't care what some geek on Slashdot--you, me, or him--thinks.
And here's the first half of my key point: what would they have lost by using a full-featured OS that still allowed you to use App Store applications? Hell, they could even keep the iPhone-like skin on it! The average person would still love how easily it could be used, and geeks like me would actually want the damn thing.
I'm not saying it isn't going to sell like gangbusters, because anything with an Apple logo sells well nowadays. I'm just saying that they ignored a segment of the market that they could have included ALONG WITH their main target market...yet didn't.
Really? They aren't trying to put anything past their customers. Apple makes it VERY CLEAR that this is not a general purpose computer. People will buy it, or not, and like it, or not. Just like any other device.
And that's the other half of my whole point. Why would I pay for a locked down, restricted half computer when I could buy an open, full computer at the same price? Here is a great example of one. hell, you could even make it a hackintosh and install OSX on it...the only difference is that the hardware wouldn't have the Apple logo stamped on it.
You are trying to convince me that paying more for a device that does less is somehow a good thing. It doesn't take a geek to see what's wrong with that statement.
And bitching at me for voicing my opinion is just as silly. ;-)
Oh, and for the record, I was VERY interested in this thing until I learned it would be locked down, maximum security prison style. Even with the hardware limitations (no expandable options, no card reader, no flash support, no multitasking) I still would have bought one in a heartbeat if it were based around a full-featured OS instead of a ported version of what the iPhone runs.
A bad device? No, not bad, but overpriced considering you are locked into whatever Apple deems worthy of running.
Why not just get an ASUS T91MT? It's Intel based, you could prolly install OSX on it. There you go: functions exactly like an Apple Tablet without being locked down. Have fun.
Seriously. The only reason this thing is getting the publicity that it is comes from having that Apple logo on it. If it had a Microsoft logo or Google logo on it with all the same benefits and limitations, people would be avoiding it like the plauge.
Nope, no one is telling you that you are going to spend anything.
Hope that clears up the confusion.
Thanks, smart ass ;-)
A Kindle DX has about the same entry price, and is about the same size, and does less (OTOH, it does have a 3G connection, which you have to pay more for on the iPad.)
You're absolutely right, and I've told people that a Kindle DX is a waste of money as well (I advocate non-locked-down e-readers that support a wide range of formats.)
And paying about the price of a high-end, dedicated ebook reader to do it. Which has many of the same limitations, and less breadth of functionality (though it is better for the specific purpose of reading ebooks.)
And I have the same problems with high-end e-readers.
The iPad is hardly uniquely limited in the world of mobile devices.
Very true, but it had the potential to be far more than the delivered product. Keeping it locked to Apple's App store keeps things simple but Orwellian. Sorry, but if I'm dropping that much money on a device that looks and acts like a computer, I should be able to use it like one.
Had they gone with a ported version of OSX or a newer, less restricted OS, I would have been on board even with the problems I have regarding the hardware. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way.
As it stands, if I want a tablet I'll just go with an ASUS T91MT for now, thanks.
Apple has created a device that follows a design philosophy started with their first generation iPod: giving our customers control over their own device is bad. Orwellian control is the only way to ensure we get our cut. We're rich, bitch!
Fixed that for you.
I don't see anything about the hardware that precludes you from using a stylus. If you really think this is a huge market, then write and app for that and distribute styluses; you'll be rich!
Believe me, if I had the programming skill to do so I would. No matter, I'm sure SOMEONE out there will do it...that is, if Apple approves the app, of course.
Adobe COULD be the reason why it doesn't support flash, but I think a more likely reason is Apple keeping control of the system...if it supported flash, you could write an app for it and distribute it without Apple getting their cut.
I never said it wouldn't be popular, I just said it's a missed opportunity.
How much of that $500+ do you think is paying for porting the iPhone OS over? Why wouldn't they just port over OSX so we have a fully functioning computer instead of a locked down and hindered device? Why not just make a new OS skinned to LOOK like the iPhone OS, but without all the limitations?
That was my point.
The reason people are so pissed is because it COULD have been amazing. I could learn to deal with no USB ports, no SD Card slot, no upgrade path...I could learn to deal with that.
But using the iPhone OS, meaning that everything is locked down tight? No flash or multitasking support? Sorry. Not for the $500 entry fee. Theys hould have ported OSX or created a new OS for this thing. Considering the price point and its locked-down design, there is no reason to buy it.
Had they not used the iPhone OS and instead made it fully functional, I would buy three.
First off, it is based on iPhone OS 3.2. What the hell?!?!??! So you're telling me I'm going to spend at minimum $500 on a device that is just as locked down as an iPod Touch or iPhone? I'm going to have to hack the damn thing just so I can run an unapproved application? Great. Thanks for that, Apple.
Secondly, it is completely devoid of ANYTHING...no external ports (except when using dongles hooked up to the 30-pin connector...huzzah for accessories :/), no flash support, no multitasking (oh great, so I can't have AIM and Safari open at the same time? Epic Fail.)...it just seems to be an extremely restricted device considering the $500 entry price.
Third, what exactly are you getting for that price? Let's look at the fully loaded 64 gig/3G-enabled version. For roughly $800, you are buying a locked-down device with zero expansion options, zero USB ports or flash card readers, and no way to upgrade. For $800 you could put together a full-blown gaming computer or buy a REALLY nice laptop...hell, you could even buy a used tablet convertible and get the benefits of a tablet AND a laptop! But no, with Apple you get a locked down non-widescreen non-expandable device.
Fourth (and this isn't that big of a deal, but it is still a missed opportunity) Apple should have included a stylus with the system. Think about the people that use Wacom tablets, like the Penny Arcade guys or countless other digital graphic artists/designers. If Apple had included a stylus and well-designed software, this thing could be used as a portable Wacom tablet. Digital artists would have MURDERED each other for a chance to buy this thing had they included a stylus. Nope, that's a whole 'nother market Apple shunned with this thing.
Honestly, my biggest issue with it is the fact that it uses the iPhone operating system. By keeping it locked down like that, they have severely limited the appeal of this thing...they should have either ported over OSX (which would work GREAT on a tablet with minimal interface changes) or just built a new operating system from the ground up. But no, they decided to put on a velvet glove and slap the shit out of their customers...and they'll buy it! They are so focused on the fact that the hand has a velvet glove they are ignoring the fact that they are being slapped by it!
Basically, this COULD have been an amazing device...but regardless of what they did right, Apple made some unbelievably stupid decisions that puts it firmly in the "what's the point" category for me.
It is also worth mentioning that if this tablet had been announced with all the same features (both missing and included), but it had a Microsoft or Google logo instead of an Apple logo, people would be treating it like the plague. Fanboyism is a terrible disease.
It's possible that they were putting up with it before because of the revenue they were generating, but the hack was enough to cause them to say screw it. ::shrug:: who knows
which they find morally offensive ;-)
While I agree with you on a human level, from a business standpoint what Google did was a bold move. Companies as large as Google don't often voluntarily ignore a customer base as large as China over morals. ::shrug:: not saying I agree with it, not saying it's right...just saying the way it normally is.
Agreed. Yes, they should have stood up against them in the very beginning, but better late than never. It will be interesting to see how this affects things long term...
I think it would be foolish to say Google isn't "evil" at all, but they certainly seem less so than many other companies their size. They have the potential to wield a HUGE amount of power, given the amount of data they have on such a large percentage of the population...but so far they seem to have kept themselves in check fairly well.
The mainstream press is delivering what people want to see, rather than what they need to see. Namely, lots of celebrity gossip and very little of substance.
^^^This, plus a bit of "opinion as news" thrown in as well.
The fact that people take folks like Beck and Olbermann seriously is frightening. Even more frightening is when someone's ideas or responses in a political discussion all come from a single news source.
I can accept people willingly living as sheep (hell, I certainly do), but people should at least form their own opinions. Sheesh.
Agreed. The closed nature of the app store has some semblance of keeping things in order...but really all it does is limit innovation. It isn't too hard to tell when an app is going to be a crapp (see what I did there?), but that's Apple for ya...iron fist wrapped in a velvet glove.
I completely agree...i was just pointing out that the very laws designed to protect the innocent can often protect the guilty.
That's just what they want you to think!
This is one of those situations like when the feds deal with the mob. You know it has to be them, there is no way there isn't...but without "proof", all you have are unsubstantiated claims.
Sometimes the justice system prevails...and sometimes it gets in its own way.
I used to have people's lives in my hands every day, and (in theory) have saved countless lives. I always enjoyed working as a mechanic, but one day I realized just how big of an impact I had. I was driving down a major road near where I live, and saw a woman in a Chrysler Town and Country slam on her brakes because a car cut her off. I noticed in her back seat were three kids, two of them in car seats...and then I recognized the license plate and bumper stickers.... I had done a full brake job (master cylinder, pads/rotors shoes/drums, the works) not two weeks prior on that minivan. It was because of me that woman was able to stop on a dime when she needed to.
That was when I realized just how important being a mechanic is...and that's also when I went from enjoying it as a hobby to loving it as a profession.
True, it is completely different...I was just throwin' it out there in the offchance someone wanted to change professions :-)
...that something strong enough to withstand space travel and atmospheric exit/entry can be so fragile.
"Hey, we have this contraption here that can take you to space and bring you back...all while keeping you alive! But don't breathe on it wrong, or it will fall apart..."
25 with no degree in a programming field? I don't expect to be making much :p
As a mechanic, I was making BANK. $50k a year at the age of 19 with a GED. I was making as much if not more than the teachers who told me I wasn't going to amount to anything :-) I loved doing it, but had to stop due to physical injury -_-;;
Mechanics generally have to do this. We didn't have to worry about welders and such, but all the "hand tools" I used were bought by me.
Lemme tell ya, buying (and paying off) ~20k worth of tools before the age of 22 made my credit score look unbelievable.