And why don't those companies just give a big fuck you to microsoft's format? The lock in with ANYTHING from Microsoft is SUPPORTED by the very consumers that BUY from microsoft.
If you don't buy from them, you don't have to use their standards. If you do buy from them, then you obviously don't care that you have to use their standards and it ends up not mattering anyway. Last time I checked, there aren't goons from microsoft going around putting guns to people's heads telling them that they HAVE to buy a computer with windows/microsoft software on it. Again, as I have stated HUNDREDS of times...many MANY epople in the world use not a single solitary thing from microsoft.
There is nothing stopping them from being microsoft-free, just as there is nothing stopping someone else from being microsoft-free.
Go out and buy a white-box PC or laptop. Or even better, go out and buy the individual components and put it together. Or get it done for you if you don't have the know-how from a place like MEI or Intellect (local shops where I live)
No force of windows involved. Many online shops also cost you NOTHING to have no OS come preinstalled with your system, yet you do have to pay if it is installed.
Nownownow, you are going to start the whole "wlel people don't have the knowledge to do that!"
So buy a mac if you don't like it. Or again, go somehwere and have them build a PC for you and install linux, or what have you.
No one FORCES a consumer to buy a computer with windows or from a big-name manufacturer. Should a company (in this case microsoft) be penalized because consumers didn't take the time to educate themselves before making a purchase?
This goes back to the whole cars debate. Should car manufacturers be held liable because they are used for a bad purpose? Should a car manufacturer be sued because I drove on the sidewalk and therefore used their product to kill someone? Should they be sued because I can use their vehicle to commit a robbery? Should they be sued if your brakes fail because you never had them inspected for 60,000 miles (unless they claim that their brakes last that long)? No. Of course not.
If you are computer-illiterate enough to buy a big-name computer, you aren't going to get it without Windows unless it's a Mac; if you ARE computer literate enough to build your own, you will put whatever OS you want to put on it. Again, people are not FORCED. They do have a choice. And again, the chances that someone who buys a big-name computer has enough skills to install their own OS is HIGHLY unlikely. Those that do have enough skill to do so and don't want windows will buy a mac (or one of the others that offer Linux, such as dell)
Your point is completely moot. Big-name computers with windows are NOT the only option a consumer has.
Being FORCED? Then what the fuck is OSX? All the various distros of Linux? Homebrewed OS's? BSD? OS/2? Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.....
There are MANY MANY MANY options out there other than windows. People are just too fucking stupid to realize that. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE forces ANYONE to use windows. There are hundreds of thousands of millions of people in the world (and companies, for that matter) that get by without using a single solitary piece of microsoft software.
Well, programming languages come and go...of course, some of the "classics" are still in limited use (cobol, Pascal, C) but for the most part programming languages go the way of the dodo eventually.
I would imagine that if these new multi-multi core procs are released into the wild in mass numbers, new programming languages will be developed that will enable things to be done more efficiently and easier....or perhaps a hybrid language: One half of the language is for writing processes for individual cores, while the other half acts as a "hub"....or even better, say you have 16 cores, and then one "central" core that acts like a post office...it doesn't actually create any of the mail, it just makes sure it gets delivered to the correct place.
There is no way that the hardware would advance without the programming ability to back it up
Because what would be the point in that...? Like you said, they have remote battery cutoffs....I would rather someone not be able to start my car rather than be able to drive it at 2 miles an hour...
Unless you are being sarcastic, in which case my sarcasm-radar is broken
What the fuck are you talking about? Last time I checked a governer prevented a vehicle from going over a certain speed (or in the case of a rev-limiter, from going over a certain RPM)
Well, see for you it does make a lot of sense. You want to watch HD movies right now, so owning a PS3 makes a lot of sense...you get a next-gen (current gen?) system that can also play your old games, while being able to view HD movies in the format of your choosing.
For me, there really is no reason to get a PS3...other than Final Fantasy XIII, there are NO games that have been announced for the PS3 that I am looking forward to (and FFXIII isn't that big of a deal for me anyway)...in addition, I'm holding out to see who the "victor" is in the format war, if there even is one...who knows, this "war" may continue until the next big format, which will either be holographic discs (which are slated for the 2010 timeframe) or something ENTIRELY new.
Either way, I don't own a 1080P tv and don't plan on buying one soon, nor do I plan on moving to EITHER hd-dvd or blu-ray...buying a PS3 makes zero sense for ME.
Glad to hear that you are enjoying and getting use out of it though. I just personally have no real need or desire for it, it doesn't make entertainment or monetary sense for me to get a PS3...
The only problem I had with the Dreamcast controller was that it made your thumb a little raw after extended play sessions...the exposed hard plastic on the thumbstick was a little meh...
That's ok though, some neoprene with a little adhesive on the back worked wonders;-)
There are actually a fairly large number of modchips (Xecuter 3 being one of the more popular and in my opinion best) that either are completely solderless or (as with the Xecuter 3's case with the Xapter) can be made into being solderless.
Of course, going by the parents point, you could very easily buy a second xbox, along with the modchip and large hard drive for the media center one for less than a 360.
"It's probably just a matter of having used the PS controller for 10 years, but I don't see myself preferring the XBox controller any time soon."
Ah, yeah that will do it. Personally, I was never a fan of any of the controllers for the Playstations...they just never fit right in my hand. I think I am the only person in the world who LOVES the dreamcast controller though, lol.
As far as playing after the kiddies goto bed, that's why I invested in some really really nice headphones:-) Hell, even 100 bucks will buy you a good sounding pair...it won't be like having a full blown surround system, but you can play it as loud as you like
While you are correct, controller choice is subjective, try this little experiment:
Hold your hands out flat, palms facing up. Have someone place a 360 controller in your hand and tell you to slowly grip it and position your hands in standard "game-play" positions. now do the the same thing with the PS3 controller.
Which one has your hands resting in a more "natural" position? I.e., which one did you have to adjust more? I don't mean just the grip, I mean everything...placement of fingers, angle that you hold your fingers at, etc.
As far as the 360 sounding "grating' at 10 feet...maybe you should upgrade your sound system;-)
Well, when you consider that the kind of people that are going to be streaming content (i.e. video) most likely have Media Center Edition installed anyway due to it being designed with that purpose in mind...
Besides. A couple reasons why even if I wasn't running Medica Center Edition already, I wouldn't have a problem moving to it:
1. The 360 for the good version is 400 dollars. It is a 360 AND a streaming box that works nearly flawlessly. You try to find me a piece of hardware that integrates that easily for 400 dollars or less, is that powerful, AND is a game console and I'll gladly buy it. Keep in mind that turning the 360 into a streaming box requires VERY VERY little setup, and can be done very quickly.
2. Like many intelligent people, I don't actually have my fileserver hooked up to the outside world. Well, not directly anyway. I have a firewall set up on it so that the only thing that can access it is the 360 in the main room and the old streaming box in the study. The fileserver itself cannot see the internet, and the outside world cannot access it unless someone was unbelievably determined to do so (and that's if they can even see it)
3. The ONLY thing my fileserver is used for is exactly that...storage. My gaming PC needs nothing from it, neither do the laptops. I have a little E500 laptop I use as a download slave, but it's used for NOTHING else. Once a week, anything I download (which usually weighs in between 5-10 gigs, depending on what I am downloading and how pirate-happy I'm feeling) I back up the new files to an external hard drive, and then transfer the files to the fileserver.
Overall, I think having Media Center Edition on there is a small price to pay to having a cheap, effective, and easy to use streaming box
That's funny, I went with my buddies cousin to get her a Wii, and everywhere we went sales people were laughing at us with their eyes.
With their mouths, they were asking if we would rather have one of the umpteen PS3's they had. Currently, they were using them to help support the checkout counters...although, in one store we went to they were out of PS3's...
It is a lot for your money if you care about Blu-Ray or putting linux on something 5 times more powerful than what is needed to run it...otherwise, it's an overpriced ps2 with 360 graphics.
True, but there are some things you get with the 360 you don't get with PS3...
1. More comfortable (read: natural in your hand) controller that also has rumble in it (yes it's a little gimicky, but you do miss it...) 2. Xbox live. It will be damn near IMPOSSIBLE for a company to catch up with microsoft in the online arena, especially once they integrate the Live service with PC gamers and games 3. Modability. Granted, the PS3 supports Linux out of the box, but tell me what sounds like a better deal to you; being able to put linux on a game console, or being able to hack the firmware and play backups and downloaded games at no cost to you? Not to mention the inherent design of the case would make it (the 360) a bit easier to mod as well. 4. Price. Even with the 100 dollar wifi adapter on the 360, that still leaves you with enough money for a full-price and reduced price game, or three reduced price games for the cost of the 60gig PS3 (and that's assuming you didn't buy the 300 dollar core version). 5. Form. Granted, the 360 isn't as easy to integrate into an entertainment center as a rectangular-shaped amp, but it is a hell of a lot easier than getting a PS3 to fit (not to mention it's smaller)
Now, the PS3 has Blu-Ray (if you care about that sort of thing), native 1080p support, native linux support, some long-running franchises (although sony is slowly losing their grip on those things) and it looks quite sleek. It's not a FAILURE as a system in my eyes, just not as much of a success (success meaning overal value for the money spent))
I think the 360 all-around is a MUCH better choice...it being able to integrate and be used as a streaming box with little configuration required is a good choice as well...lord knows I would rather be able to stream content from my 1.5 terabyte fileserver than store it on an internal 60 GB hard drive with linux...
See, if sony wants to sell more PS3's, they should include a sought after title, like Resistance...or, wait and then package in something that many people would LIKE to have but not necessarily want to spend 50-70 dollars on, like Ninja Gaiden Sigma.
I know that (excluding the Wii) the "pack-in" idea went the way of the dodo a long time ago, but still...it's fantastic knowing I can (could, whatever) buy a console, take it home, and already have something to play on it without having to spend and additional 1/8th-1/4th the cost of the console itself.
apples to oranges. Both the software and hardware industry are COMPLETELY different than the automobile industry. And for the record, many car companies DO sell their engines/parts to other manufacturers. Look under the hood of any toyota made in the last 20 years, and tell me how many GM parts you find.
While I agree with you in most every point you made, the funny thing is that the problems with windows are exactly what prompted me to learn more about my system...
I started computer gaming way back when IRQ conflicts could cripple your system (or at least your sound card, heh) and autoexec.bat and config.sys files were a necessity to understand. I've actually watched and noticed the gradual increase in things that windows does automatically for the user...
Now, since I already was able to take care of everything myself, it was a welcome change that these things were now done FOR me, but I could see how this would be problematic for someone who doesn't know ANYWAY.
See, I personally think Linux's customization options are exactly why it will NEVER be as prevelent as windows....at least not until it can support more hardware "out of the box". Now, granted, even in just the past 5 years, native hardware support has VASTLY improved, but the need for linux-specific drivers and software can be VERY daunting to your "average" computer user.
See, I tell people when they start out to start with Windows, and THEN move to Linux. Learn Windows inside and out. Mess around with Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. Mess around with DOS. Once you get a real good understanding how the OS functions, what does what and where this and that are located...THEN move to Linux.
Until Linux can be installed and used with the same little knowledge required to run a Windows (or OSX) box, it will NEVER have the market share that it potentially could have. All it will take is one single distro that supports the myriad of hardware that Windows supports natively and (while I hate this part of the argument) better emulation software to run Windows games, and people will start flocking to it.
For now, like so many others, I will stick with Windows. Not because I can't use Linux (my E500 runs it), but because I like having the simple shit taken care of for me.
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And why don't those companies just give a big fuck you to microsoft's format? The lock in with ANYTHING from Microsoft is SUPPORTED by the very consumers that BUY from microsoft.
If you don't buy from them, you don't have to use their standards. If you do buy from them, then you obviously don't care that you have to use their standards and it ends up not mattering anyway. Last time I checked, there aren't goons from microsoft going around putting guns to people's heads telling them that they HAVE to buy a computer with windows/microsoft software on it. Again, as I have stated HUNDREDS of times...many MANY epople in the world use not a single solitary thing from microsoft.
There is nothing stopping them from being microsoft-free, just as there is nothing stopping someone else from being microsoft-free.
Again, being fucking stupid.
Go out and buy a white-box PC or laptop. Or even better, go out and buy the individual components and put it together. Or get it done for you if you don't have the know-how from a place like MEI or Intellect (local shops where I live)
No force of windows involved. Many online shops also cost you NOTHING to have no OS come preinstalled with your system, yet you do have to pay if it is installed.
Nownownow, you are going to start the whole "wlel people don't have the knowledge to do that!"
So buy a mac if you don't like it. Or again, go somehwere and have them build a PC for you and install linux, or what have you.
No one FORCES a consumer to buy a computer with windows or from a big-name manufacturer. Should a company (in this case microsoft) be penalized because consumers didn't take the time to educate themselves before making a purchase?
This goes back to the whole cars debate. Should car manufacturers be held liable because they are used for a bad purpose? Should a car manufacturer be sued because I drove on the sidewalk and therefore used their product to kill someone? Should they be sued because I can use their vehicle to commit a robbery? Should they be sued if your brakes fail because you never had them inspected for 60,000 miles (unless they claim that their brakes last that long)? No. Of course not.
If you are computer-illiterate enough to buy a big-name computer, you aren't going to get it without Windows unless it's a Mac; if you ARE computer literate enough to build your own, you will put whatever OS you want to put on it. Again, people are not FORCED. They do have a choice. And again, the chances that someone who buys a big-name computer has enough skills to install their own OS is HIGHLY unlikely. Those that do have enough skill to do so and don't want windows will buy a mac (or one of the others that offer Linux, such as dell)
Your point is completely moot. Big-name computers with windows are NOT the only option a consumer has.
Being FORCED? Then what the fuck is OSX? All the various distros of Linux? Homebrewed OS's? BSD? OS/2? Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.....
There are MANY MANY MANY options out there other than windows. People are just too fucking stupid to realize that. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE forces ANYONE to use windows. There are hundreds of thousands of millions of people in the world (and companies, for that matter) that get by without using a single solitary piece of microsoft software.
If they can do it, why can't others?
I know, that's why I included it in being a classic that is still in use:-) Maybe not as limited as others, but still in use:-)
Well, programming languages come and go...of course, some of the "classics" are still in limited use (cobol, Pascal, C) but for the most part programming languages go the way of the dodo eventually.
I would imagine that if these new multi-multi core procs are released into the wild in mass numbers, new programming languages will be developed that will enable things to be done more efficiently and easier....or perhaps a hybrid language: One half of the language is for writing processes for individual cores, while the other half acts as a "hub"....or even better, say you have 16 cores, and then one "central" core that acts like a post office...it doesn't actually create any of the mail, it just makes sure it gets delivered to the correct place.
There is no way that the hardware would advance without the programming ability to back it up
Or I could install a governer in his head to prevent a certain amount of stupidity from making from his brain to his vocal cords :-) /lameness
Because what would be the point in that...? Like you said, they have remote battery cutoffs....I would rather someone not be able to start my car rather than be able to drive it at 2 miles an hour...
Unless you are being sarcastic, in which case my sarcasm-radar is broken
...a governer to deter theft?
What the fuck are you talking about? Last time I checked a governer prevented a vehicle from going over a certain speed (or in the case of a rev-limiter, from going over a certain RPM)
Well, see for you it does make a lot of sense. You want to watch HD movies right now, so owning a PS3 makes a lot of sense...you get a next-gen (current gen?) system that can also play your old games, while being able to view HD movies in the format of your choosing.
For me, there really is no reason to get a PS3...other than Final Fantasy XIII, there are NO games that have been announced for the PS3 that I am looking forward to (and FFXIII isn't that big of a deal for me anyway)...in addition, I'm holding out to see who the "victor" is in the format war, if there even is one...who knows, this "war" may continue until the next big format, which will either be holographic discs (which are slated for the 2010 timeframe) or something ENTIRELY new.
Either way, I don't own a 1080P tv and don't plan on buying one soon, nor do I plan on moving to EITHER hd-dvd or blu-ray...buying a PS3 makes zero sense for ME.
Glad to hear that you are enjoying and getting use out of it though. I just personally have no real need or desire for it, it doesn't make entertainment or monetary sense for me to get a PS3...
The only problem I had with the Dreamcast controller was that it made your thumb a little raw after extended play sessions...the exposed hard plastic on the thumbstick was a little meh...
That's ok though, some neoprene with a little adhesive on the back worked wonders;-)
There are actually a fairly large number of modchips (Xecuter 3 being one of the more popular and in my opinion best) that either are completely solderless or (as with the Xecuter 3's case with the Xapter) can be made into being solderless.
Of course, going by the parents point, you could very easily buy a second xbox, along with the modchip and large hard drive for the media center one for less than a 360.
From a gameplay/memories standpoint? Not at all. My entertainment has no price limit. I have a vast amount of very fond memories playing videogames.
From a monetary standpoint? Yes, it is a bad thing.
"It's probably just a matter of having used the PS controller for 10 years, but I don't see myself preferring the XBox controller any time soon."
Ah, yeah that will do it. Personally, I was never a fan of any of the controllers for the Playstations...they just never fit right in my hand. I think I am the only person in the world who LOVES the dreamcast controller though, lol.
As far as playing after the kiddies goto bed, that's why I invested in some really really nice headphones:-) Hell, even 100 bucks will buy you a good sounding pair...it won't be like having a full blown surround system, but you can play it as loud as you like
While you are correct, controller choice is subjective, try this little experiment:
Hold your hands out flat, palms facing up. Have someone place a 360 controller in your hand and tell you to slowly grip it and position your hands in standard "game-play" positions. now do the the same thing with the PS3 controller.
Which one has your hands resting in a more "natural" position? I.e., which one did you have to adjust more? I don't mean just the grip, I mean everything...placement of fingers, angle that you hold your fingers at, etc.
As far as the 360 sounding "grating' at 10 feet...maybe you should upgrade your sound system;-)
Well, when you consider that the kind of people that are going to be streaming content (i.e. video) most likely have Media Center Edition installed anyway due to it being designed with that purpose in mind...
Besides. A couple reasons why even if I wasn't running Medica Center Edition already, I wouldn't have a problem moving to it:
1. The 360 for the good version is 400 dollars. It is a 360 AND a streaming box that works nearly flawlessly. You try to find me a piece of hardware that integrates that easily for 400 dollars or less, is that powerful, AND is a game console and I'll gladly buy it. Keep in mind that turning the 360 into a streaming box requires VERY VERY little setup, and can be done very quickly.
2. Like many intelligent people, I don't actually have my fileserver hooked up to the outside world. Well, not directly anyway. I have a firewall set up on it so that the only thing that can access it is the 360 in the main room and the old streaming box in the study. The fileserver itself cannot see the internet, and the outside world cannot access it unless someone was unbelievably determined to do so (and that's if they can even see it)
3. The ONLY thing my fileserver is used for is exactly that...storage. My gaming PC needs nothing from it, neither do the laptops. I have a little E500 laptop I use as a download slave, but it's used for NOTHING else. Once a week, anything I download (which usually weighs in between 5-10 gigs, depending on what I am downloading and how pirate-happy I'm feeling) I back up the new files to an external hard drive, and then transfer the files to the fileserver.
Overall, I think having Media Center Edition on there is a small price to pay to having a cheap, effective, and easy to use streaming box
That's funny, I went with my buddies cousin to get her a Wii, and everywhere we went sales people were laughing at us with their eyes.
With their mouths, they were asking if we would rather have one of the umpteen PS3's they had. Currently, they were using them to help support the checkout counters...although, in one store we went to they were out of PS3's...
'Course, that was Safeway...
It is a lot for your money if you care about Blu-Ray or putting linux on something 5 times more powerful than what is needed to run it...otherwise, it's an overpriced ps2 with 360 graphics.
True, but there are some things you get with the 360 you don't get with PS3...
1. More comfortable (read: natural in your hand) controller that also has rumble in it (yes it's a little gimicky, but you do miss it...)
2. Xbox live. It will be damn near IMPOSSIBLE for a company to catch up with microsoft in the online arena, especially once they integrate the Live service with PC gamers and games
3. Modability. Granted, the PS3 supports Linux out of the box, but tell me what sounds like a better deal to you; being able to put linux on a game console, or being able to hack the firmware and play backups and downloaded games at no cost to you? Not to mention the inherent design of the case would make it (the 360) a bit easier to mod as well.
4. Price. Even with the 100 dollar wifi adapter on the 360, that still leaves you with enough money for a full-price and reduced price game, or three reduced price games for the cost of the 60gig PS3 (and that's assuming you didn't buy the 300 dollar core version).
5. Form. Granted, the 360 isn't as easy to integrate into an entertainment center as a rectangular-shaped amp, but it is a hell of a lot easier than getting a PS3 to fit (not to mention it's smaller)
Now, the PS3 has Blu-Ray (if you care about that sort of thing), native 1080p support, native linux support, some long-running franchises (although sony is slowly losing their grip on those things) and it looks quite sleek. It's not a FAILURE as a system in my eyes, just not as much of a success (success meaning overal value for the money spent))
I think the 360 all-around is a MUCH better choice...it being able to integrate and be used as a streaming box with little configuration required is a good choice as well...lord knows I would rather be able to stream content from my 1.5 terabyte fileserver than store it on an internal 60 GB hard drive with linux...
See, if sony wants to sell more PS3's, they should include a sought after title, like Resistance...or, wait and then package in something that many people would LIKE to have but not necessarily want to spend 50-70 dollars on, like Ninja Gaiden Sigma.
I know that (excluding the Wii) the "pack-in" idea went the way of the dodo a long time ago, but still...it's fantastic knowing I can (could, whatever) buy a console, take it home, and already have something to play on it without having to spend and additional 1/8th-1/4th the cost of the console itself.
I miss those days...
Just popped in front and rear along with some 5.13 gearing in our '79 FJ-40 :-)
apples to oranges. Both the software and hardware industry are COMPLETELY different than the automobile industry. And for the record, many car companies DO sell their engines/parts to other manufacturers. Look under the hood of any toyota made in the last 20 years, and tell me how many GM parts you find.
And who do you think gave ~90% of the market share to Microsoft? Consumers. Not some wizard, not some evil billionaire geek...consumers.
You proved a point (stereotype) in my original post.
Windows users are stupid. Linux users are elitest assholes.
Same shit, different name.
While I agree with you in most every point you made, the funny thing is that the problems with windows are exactly what prompted me to learn more about my system...
I started computer gaming way back when IRQ conflicts could cripple your system (or at least your sound card, heh) and autoexec.bat and config.sys files were a necessity to understand. I've actually watched and noticed the gradual increase in things that windows does automatically for the user...
Now, since I already was able to take care of everything myself, it was a welcome change that these things were now done FOR me, but I could see how this would be problematic for someone who doesn't know ANYWAY.
See, I personally think Linux's customization options are exactly why it will NEVER be as prevelent as windows....at least not until it can support more hardware "out of the box". Now, granted, even in just the past 5 years, native hardware support has VASTLY improved, but the need for linux-specific drivers and software can be VERY daunting to your "average" computer user.
See, I tell people when they start out to start with Windows, and THEN move to Linux. Learn Windows inside and out. Mess around with Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. Mess around with DOS. Once you get a real good understanding how the OS functions, what does what and where this and that are located...THEN move to Linux.
Until Linux can be installed and used with the same little knowledge required to run a Windows (or OSX) box, it will NEVER have the market share that it potentially could have. All it will take is one single distro that supports the myriad of hardware that Windows supports natively and (while I hate this part of the argument) better emulation software to run Windows games, and people will start flocking to it.
For now, like so many others, I will stick with Windows. Not because I can't use Linux (my E500 runs it), but because I like having the simple shit taken care of for me.
Well, I'm primarily a nice guy, but I can still be an asshole.
Apple may be primarily a hardware company, but they still make software.