It's not lack of DRM that lessens the number of trax in Yahoo!'s library: some of their songs have no DRM, but most of their songs are still Playsforsure. (Very unfortunately.) They have quite a few trax from major labels.
The Yahoo! store has lower selection because fewer people shop there. (Odds are they don't have as good arrangements with the indie labels, either.)
I will have you know that there are people angry about Wal*Mart's monopoly on the Wal*Mart shopping experience. The Wal*Mart shopping experience tends to discourage other shopping experiences--for instance, the small-town grocery-store shopping experience. It's understood that the Wal*Mart shopping experience is more popular, but the small-town grocery-store shopping experience can offer things Wal*Mart can't--if the small-town grocery stores survive.
The problem with the iTunes experience is that it discourages experiences that call for other portable music devices or even other music managers. Norway wants to act before Creative or Sansa is driven off the music-player market.
The market didn't care about the hardware-software lock-in and seamless experience for Apple Macintoshes: this is proven by how rare Macs used to be. There were always 85 Windows machines for every Macintosh; before Windows, there were 50 DOS Machines, 10 CP/M machines, and 10 Commodore 64s. (Or something like that.)
These days, iPods are the dominant music player--or if they aren't, it sure feels like they are. The market cares about iPods, the iTunes Store, and the seamless experience they provide; this leads governments to care about them too.
If the iTunes Store is only popular because of the iPod, then why should we have a problem if the iTunes Store is closed? There are always CDs and non-DRMed stores to use with the iTunes music manager and the iPod.
Re:Apple "forces" hardware upgrades to keep music?
on
Norway Outlaws iTunes
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· Score: 1
I have burned CDs with iTunes. No coasters so far, but no track names either--I had to add them back in. ("Track 01" doesn't cut it.)
The iTunes terms of service claims that you can only burn any given playlist 7 times. I don't know how that affects the Purchased Music playlist--I've never done it that directly.
You can back up the 400 CDs into iTunes. (Probably Windows Media Player or MusicMATCH Jukebox as well, but iTunes is what I use.) You can burn CDs of the tracks you transferred (esp. from iTunes), or load them into personal music players. You can back up CDs.
It is probable that Fairplay is, objectively, better than any other musical DRM. But how do we tell that to Norway?
Norway is not banning owning songs with Fairplay on them. Norway is banning stores--specif. the iTunes Store--that sell music with Fairplay on them, since Fairplay works on only one portable platform. It's legal for Norwegians to play songs with Fairplay; it just isn't legal for Apple to sell songs with Fairplay in Norway, for now.
There are other legal online music stores. If people really think that the iTunes Store is the only legal online music store--then that's why Norway wants the iTunes Store either opened to any portable music player that wants to use it, or shut down.
"because iTunes isn't stopping anyone from buying Sony's music in other formats, on CD, or from another online music store."
True, but iTunes does stop Sony's music players from using the iTunes store. That is the problem for Norway--not the iPod, the iTunes Store.
(Moves to ban Sony players/music stores over ATRAC to be mulled over later.)
"I know, it would seem to make more sense to just close down the iTunes Store for Norway and still sell iPods there."
That is what Norway wants. That is what Norway is trying to make Apple Inc. do.
How many of the ones that aren't iPods work with the iTunes Store?
It's the store Norway wants to get rid of, not the iPods themselves.
Re:Apple "forces" hardware upgrades to keep music?
on
Norway Outlaws iTunes
·
· Score: 1
Okay. You are using iPod-iTunesmanager-iTunesStore.
Your iPod dies. Perhaps there was an accident; perhaps the battery died and you couldn't find a replacement, or the mini crowbar required to install the replacement.
The tracks that you loaded into iTunes from your computer's CD player can go into any portable music player whatsoever, or at least any that take AACs.
The tracks you got from the iTunes store, however, will only work in iPods as-is because they carry Fairplay. Removing the Fairplay creates trouble, esp. given that CD burners sometimes produce coasters. It also costs metadata--and you do not want to discover, when you are restoring DRM-less trax to your system, that you no longer remember the name of a song you like or who recorded it.
So, it's simplest to just buy another iPod if you have iTunes Store trax...
You got me.
No, there's no special reason to prevent MS from releasing Zunes and Zune DRM. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when Zunes hit Europe; if Norway doesn't treat the Zunestore like it treats the iTunes Store, there had better be a good reason.
By your logic, the new MS Zune's DRM is fine because Zune-Zunestore-ZuneDRM is a closed system. MS isn't leveraging anyone with Zune DRM--hey, MS may even lose playsforsure licenses over it. Zunes will succeed or fail on their own merits (or lack thereof).
I'm not saying that what Norway is doing to Apple is fair. I do think Norway is out to get Apple. I'm saying that this might not be the best line for protest.
Yes, but more than one company makes playsforsure-compatible hardware. For that matter, more than one music store sells playsforsure songs. Microsoft licenses that codec to almost anyone willing to pay for it: it may end up the ugly.rtf for WMAs.
Playsforsure has zillions of flaws, which is why some stores using it are toying with dropping DRM altogether. But the tying-down aspect is more subtle with playsforsure than with Fairplay.
My first thought was "if the iTunes store just sold all their songs in a closed-spec ".ipod" format that was only designed to play on iPods then they wouldn't be having this problem." Fairplay is the closed-spec ".ipod" format!
Fairplay is not open simply because one can strip it (and metadata) off the file when transferring that file to CD; that's like saying that ".doc" is open because you can print.doc files out onto paper and type the words on the paper into another word processor.
Fairplay is not open simply because of DVD Jon's efforts; the format is still legally closed if efforts to open it came by methods violating the DMCA or the European Union Copyright Directive.
Fairplay is not open.
"There's no law that forces people to use iTunes, nor does iTunes have a monopoly on downloaded music, and Apple hasn't used its market share to squeeze others out of the business (unlike Microsoft). What have they done wrong, except become popular?"
Apple Inc. created the iTunes Store, put Fairplay on the trax it sells, and then offered exclusive trax. (Example of an exclusive iTunes track: U2/McCartney "Sgt. Pepper" on Live8.)
Now, whether Apple Inc. is squeezing other corps. out of any markets it's in is hard to pinpoint. (I've heard that there aren't as many large non-iPod portable music players out now as there used to be.) It doesn't matter. Europe is simply angry about there being important songs that can be gotten only on iTunes with iTunes Fairplay on them, which can only be gotten with iTunes manager and only played without (further) compression damage on iPods. Europe wishes to stop this method of distribution, one way or another.
Many manufacturers make computers that will run Windows.
Only one manufacturer makes portable devices that directly play iTunes Store purchases. It so happens that that corp. is the same one running the iTunes Store.
The iTunes manager and iPods will work without the iTunes Store. The iTunes Store will not work without the iTunes manager. So if something must be outlawed over Fairplay, the store is the least painful choice for consumers.
And yes, I do think that Europe has it in for Apple Inc.
That Patriot Act story happened in 2005. The Patriot Act has been revised since then, and its scope has been narrowed.
Is the "sneak & peek" method of tapping tunnels to be used by terrorists and/or drug dealers still legal, or were those methods outlawed again when the act was renewed and rewritten?
I will add that I've seen at least one public service announcement claim that drugs fund terrorists. I'm sure that anyone fighting drug smugglers with Patriot Act provisions will tell you that as well.
From what I read, Anshe Chung is a public figure in Second Life. She is the biggest land baron in that world (not counting Linden Labs itself), and she was holding a news conference when that horrific dirty attack happened...
I believe that there is a decree to the effect that consumers mustn't shop at Allofmp3. Why did you think Visa and Mastercard pulled out of that store?
Now, how official this decree is hasn't been determined yet. I know that most of us don't believe that the RIAA should issue decrees, and the indies who get burned by Allofmp3 and know it are rare. But there is a decree out there.
I hate to break this to you, but Microsoft actually has a policy that if a computer-maker buys a bulk license for MS-DOS/Windows (yes, MS's policy is that old) for any of its computers, it has to pay for the OS for every single one of them. That is one reason Microsoft's OSes are dominant today.
MS's model is precisely analogous to the BBC model.
Slashdot Mirror
It's not lack of DRM that lessens the number of trax in Yahoo!'s library: some of their songs have no DRM, but most of their songs are still Playsforsure. (Very unfortunately.) They have quite a few trax from major labels.
The Yahoo! store has lower selection because fewer people shop there. (Odds are they don't have as good arrangements with the indie labels, either.)
I will have you know that there are people angry about Wal*Mart's monopoly on the Wal*Mart shopping experience. The Wal*Mart shopping experience tends to discourage other shopping experiences--for instance, the small-town grocery-store shopping experience. It's understood that the Wal*Mart shopping experience is more popular, but the small-town grocery-store shopping experience can offer things Wal*Mart can't--if the small-town grocery stores survive.
The problem with the iTunes experience is that it discourages experiences that call for other portable music devices or even other music managers. Norway wants to act before Creative or Sansa is driven off the music-player market.
The market didn't care about the hardware-software lock-in and seamless experience for Apple Macintoshes: this is proven by how rare Macs used to be. There were always 85 Windows machines for every Macintosh; before Windows, there were 50 DOS Machines, 10 CP/M machines, and 10 Commodore 64s. (Or something like that.)
These days, iPods are the dominant music player--or if they aren't, it sure feels like they are. The market cares about iPods, the iTunes Store, and the seamless experience they provide; this leads governments to care about them too.
If the iTunes Store is only popular because of the iPod, then why should we have a problem if the iTunes Store is closed? There are always CDs and non-DRMed stores to use with the iTunes music manager and the iPod.
I have burned CDs with iTunes. No coasters so far, but no track names either--I had to add them back in. ("Track 01" doesn't cut it.)
The iTunes terms of service claims that you can only burn any given playlist 7 times. I don't know how that affects the Purchased Music playlist--I've never done it that directly.
You can back up the 400 CDs into iTunes. (Probably Windows Media Player or MusicMATCH Jukebox as well, but iTunes is what I use.) You can burn CDs of the tracks you transferred (esp. from iTunes), or load them into personal music players. You can back up CDs.
It is probable that Fairplay is, objectively, better than any other musical DRM. But how do we tell that to Norway?
Norway is not banning owning songs with Fairplay on them. Norway is banning stores--specif. the iTunes Store--that sell music with Fairplay on them, since Fairplay works on only one portable platform. It's legal for Norwegians to play songs with Fairplay; it just isn't legal for Apple to sell songs with Fairplay in Norway, for now.
There are other legal online music stores. If people really think that the iTunes Store is the only legal online music store--then that's why Norway wants the iTunes Store either opened to any portable music player that wants to use it, or shut down.
"because iTunes isn't stopping anyone from buying Sony's music in other formats, on CD, or from another online music store."
True, but iTunes does stop Sony's music players from using the iTunes store. That is the problem for Norway--not the iPod, the iTunes Store.
(Moves to ban Sony players/music stores over ATRAC to be mulled over later.)
Hey, don't give Norway ideas!
"I know, it would seem to make more sense to just close down the iTunes Store for Norway and still sell iPods there."
That is what Norway wants. That is what Norway is trying to make Apple Inc. do.
How many of the ones that aren't iPods work with the iTunes Store?
It's the store Norway wants to get rid of, not the iPods themselves.
Okay. You are using iPod-iTunesmanager-iTunesStore.
Your iPod dies. Perhaps there was an accident; perhaps the battery died and you couldn't find a replacement, or the mini crowbar required to install the replacement.
The tracks that you loaded into iTunes from your computer's CD player can go into any portable music player whatsoever, or at least any that take AACs.
The tracks you got from the iTunes store, however, will only work in iPods as-is because they carry Fairplay. Removing the Fairplay creates trouble, esp. given that CD burners sometimes produce coasters. It also costs metadata--and you do not want to discover, when you are restoring DRM-less trax to your system, that you no longer remember the name of a song you like or who recorded it.
So, it's simplest to just buy another iPod if you have iTunes Store trax...
You got me.
No, there's no special reason to prevent MS from releasing Zunes and Zune DRM. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when Zunes hit Europe; if Norway doesn't treat the Zunestore like it treats the iTunes Store, there had better be a good reason.
By your logic, the new MS Zune's DRM is fine because Zune-Zunestore-ZuneDRM is a closed system. MS isn't leveraging anyone with Zune DRM--hey, MS may even lose playsforsure licenses over it. Zunes will succeed or fail on their own merits (or lack thereof).
I'm not saying that what Norway is doing to Apple is fair. I do think Norway is out to get Apple. I'm saying that this might not be the best line for protest.
Yes, but more than one company makes playsforsure-compatible hardware. For that matter, more than one music store sells playsforsure songs. Microsoft licenses that codec to almost anyone willing to pay for it: it may end up the ugly .rtf for WMAs.
Playsforsure has zillions of flaws, which is why some stores using it are toying with dropping DRM altogether. But the tying-down aspect is more subtle with playsforsure than with Fairplay.
My first thought was "if the iTunes store just sold all their songs in a closed-spec ".ipod" format that was only designed to play on iPods then they wouldn't be having this problem." .doc files out onto paper and type the words on the paper into another word processor.
Fairplay is the closed-spec ".ipod" format!
Fairplay is not open simply because one can strip it (and metadata) off the file when transferring that file to CD; that's like saying that ".doc" is open because you can print
Fairplay is not open simply because of DVD Jon's efforts; the format is still legally closed if efforts to open it came by methods violating the DMCA or the European Union Copyright Directive.
Fairplay is not open.
"There's no law that forces people to use iTunes, nor does iTunes have a monopoly on downloaded music, and Apple hasn't used its market share to squeeze others out of the business (unlike Microsoft). What have they done wrong, except become popular?"
Apple Inc. created the iTunes Store, put Fairplay on the trax it sells, and then offered exclusive trax. (Example of an exclusive iTunes track: U2/McCartney "Sgt. Pepper" on Live8.)
Now, whether Apple Inc. is squeezing other corps. out of any markets it's in is hard to pinpoint. (I've heard that there aren't as many large non-iPod portable music players out now as there used to be.) It doesn't matter. Europe is simply angry about there being important songs that can be gotten only on iTunes with iTunes Fairplay on them, which can only be gotten with iTunes manager and only played without (further) compression damage on iPods. Europe wishes to stop this method of distribution, one way or another.
Many manufacturers make computers that will run Windows.
Only one manufacturer makes portable devices that directly play iTunes Store purchases. It so happens that that corp. is the same one running the iTunes Store.
The iTunes manager and iPods will work without the iTunes Store. The iTunes Store will not work without the iTunes manager. So if something must be outlawed over Fairplay, the store is the least painful choice for consumers.
And yes, I do think that Europe has it in for Apple Inc.
Maybe the sharks can hear the machines that go "ping." Maybe the sharks want to avoid things that go "ping."
Sharks on a Sub?
That Patriot Act story happened in 2005. The Patriot Act has been revised since then, and its scope has been narrowed.
Is the "sneak & peek" method of tapping tunnels to be used by terrorists and/or drug dealers still legal, or were those methods outlawed again when the act was renewed and rewritten?
I will add that I've seen at least one public service announcement claim that drugs fund terrorists. I'm sure that anyone fighting drug smugglers with Patriot Act provisions will tell you that as well.
From what I read, Anshe Chung is a public figure in Second Life. She is the biggest land baron in that world (not counting Linden Labs itself), and she was holding a news conference when that horrific dirty attack happened...
I believe that there is a decree to the effect that consumers mustn't shop at Allofmp3. Why did you think Visa and Mastercard pulled out of that store?
Now, how official this decree is hasn't been determined yet. I know that most of us don't believe that the RIAA should issue decrees, and the indies who get burned by Allofmp3 and know it are rare. But there is a decree out there.
I hate to break this to you, but Microsoft actually has a policy that if a computer-maker buys a bulk license for MS-DOS/Windows (yes, MS's policy is that old) for any of its computers, it has to pay for the OS for every single one of them. That is one reason Microsoft's OSes are dominant today.
MS's model is precisely analogous to the BBC model.
"And to that, I am reduced to applefanboi: Neener neener, we win :)"
Didn't Microsoft say that about Windows in 2001?