is that such job requirements are designed to both discourage Americans as well as create the pretext that the company has sought qualified American job applicants but been unsuccessful in finding anyone who meets the necessary qualifications. Then, the company can use this bogus paper trail as the basis for filing a DoL application to hire a "business visa guest worker" under H-1b. Of course, it's remarkable how so many Indian H-1b applicants will meet the stated background requirements word for word... It's done with a wink and a nod. Seen it done.
It's all about confidence in the future, and businesses are not putting that in IT right now.
Well put. Here's a "for-instance": I won't encourage my extremely intelligent children to become software engineers or enter IT b/c of my first hand experiences. In fact, I'll go further: I'll actively discourage them from getting degrees in EE, CS or anything IT-centric. It's a stupid waste of money!! Every year, politicians increase the (H-1b) visa caps to allow in more foreign (read low wage) "business guest workers" based on fraudulent "labor shortage" claims by the same companies (Oracle, HP, Sun, Intel, Micro$oft, etc.) who are slashing their American IT workforce. And then, of course, there's the TATAs and Wipros and Infosys foreign workers deployed to the U.S. to facilitate offshore outsourcing or stationed here on contract to companies like LexisNexis and Nielsen... Nope, going into IT does NOT make sense for Americans. If you're in IT and don't have a way out, you're stuck but ironically, you could be stuck in the sort of upper middle class pay scale with the job skills currently in demand. So, enjoy the ride while you're desirable but don't expect it will last and for heaven's sake think carefully before you encourage American students to gamble so much on a deteriorating employment picture.
Companies can get workers from other countries IF American workers cannot meet the demand.
The demand is $1/hr tech support people that double as the billing department and moonlight as coders. Americans cannot legally fill this role in America for that price.
WRONG!!! That's why members of the Indian government occassionally refer to H-1b as the "outsourcing visa".
Man, have you got alot to learn!
It is a **MYTH** -- a grossly inaccurate claim -- that employers can only get an H-1b if they can't find a qualified American.
Where have you been dude?
Google up the YouTube vids of lawyers from a "big name" law firm explaining to paying business customers how to "technically" meet the standards of the law but "How NOT to hire an American" -- disqualify the Americans on some bogus pretext.
Ron Hira from the IEEE-USA & EPI has been ALL OVER this issue!!
Oh, and maybe you never bothered to read anything by Norman Matloff, the UC, Davis professor who has written academic papers and given Congressional testimony on this topic?
Do some googling and read the reality of the situation -- not the phony claims of DoL bureaucrats and politicians anxious to please their business lobby friends and campaign contributors.
Sorry, access to those contract IT jobs is *not* the solution.
At best, it's an opportunity for a limited few.
I'm one of the limited few working in classified DoD contract work where no "business guest workers" from TATA/TCS, Wipro, HCL, Satyam and Infosys need apply.
Even if you're a U.S. citizen, you have to have get interviewed and hurdles of getting past HR are immense esp if you have been out of work for awhile -- a situation not uncommon for American IT workers. (And, if you're not some fresh 20-something, you've already got a knock against you...)
Once you get interviewed and hired, you may still have to pass a background check for a secret or top secret clearance. If you can't do that, you lose. An Oracle DBA who was hired on my project was walked to the door 2 weeks ago 'cuz the background investigation didn't go well. He may have "passed" for his interim secret but with less than full glowing recommendation of the investigator, he could still have been knocked out. There's alot of reasons why people can't pass... Not just real obvious things.
So, the claim that gov't contract work is some sort of salvation for Americans in IT is fantasy. Alot of people can't hack it and you can bet that with a down economy, there's gonna be cut backs.
Well, the Bush administration tried to open up some of the the IT work in DoD contracts to allow for use of H-1b's -- non-citizen "business guest workers". I don't know how that went but at least I'm secure working on classified projects. (Interesting isn't it that in the Bush administration serving business desires to maximise profits trumped concern with security?)
Same here. Went thru outsourcings at NCR and LexisNexis. Train the imported Indian replacement workers in "knowledge transfers" and then collect your severence b4 the door hits you in the ___.
Now, I often work very long hours but as long as I get things done, I've got a job in the upper end of the middle class. Those industry standard salary surveys are nonsense and I don't pay them any attention. Out in the "real world" IT work is often hard to get and salaries are not what they were in the past before so much work went offshore and so many non-Americans were imported to drive down salaries and opportunities here in the US.
Companies are busy replacing "expensive" American middle class tech workers with lower cost alternatives whenever possible.
Here's a "for-instance" detailing the use of Indian IT workers from Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) to directly replace American IT workers in Florida at Nielsen.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article818379.ece
Young Americans can't even get into entry level IT jobs, in many cases. They're competing with large, low-cost outsourcing firms which use foreign guest workers. These foreign guestworkers, regardless of federal laws and regulations, work for significantly less than prevailing wages and work many more hours than is typical of even workaholic American IT workes. Together with offshore outsourcing of many entry level programming jobs, the entry point for Americans into IT is being closed off. In addition, every year, more Americans are being forced out of IT through offshore outsourcing and expanded H-1b and L-1 foreign guest worker programs -- used by many corporations as *worker replacement programs*. I've seen it and lived it. There isn't an end in sight. In fact, I'll know in another few months whether my job and my co-workers' jobs will be headed to India. I'm a software enginer -- a DBA working for a "big name" international corporation using the newest, most advanced and costly software and hardware. I've got more than a decade of experience. My colleagues are similarly skilled and experience. We're ALL of the opinion that corporations prefer to offshore or use imported guest workers in preference to Americans or green card residents because they can pay so much less.
The present situation in which the middle class is losing ground is not as some would have it, the mysterious workings of a competitive, dynamic free market economy. It's the direct result of decades of corporate controlled multi-national trade agreements and labor arbitrage provisions facilitating the offshore outsourcing of work and the importation of "cheap labor" into the U.S.
I've fought this fight in the IT sector for more than 5 years now. Middle and upper middle class American IT workers have been methodically targeted for replacement with lower wage foreign replacement workers. Carly "the Outsourceress" Fiorina was notorious for this activity but she is hardly alone. Her successor at HP, Mark Hurd was part of the same dynamic during his tenure at NCR in Dayton, Ohio. Larry Ellison and Bill Gates have been whacking their American workforce for years while whining to Washington politicians that they can't find qualified American IT workers. The result: politicians keep expanding the number of foreign "guest workers" permitted into the U.S. under non-immigrant visa programs such as H-1b. (There's a push underway even now for an increase.)
I think that the many Americans seeking a middle class life, well-qualified to perform even advanced work who may have lost jobs, are under threat of job loss and seeing their wages/salaries pushed DOWN by offshore outsourcing and NIV work programs SHOULD be outraged at both the politicians and the so-called business leaders and the Wall Street investors who demand that American workers get kicked to the curb.
The wealth now accruing to the already wealthiest segments of our society represents an illegitimate TRANSFER of wealth from the American middle class.
The increasing share of wealth controlled by the richest Americans is NOT the result of any Darwinian "survival of the fittest". Offshore outsourcing, "free trade" and NIV worker replacement programs are POLITICAL creations driven by lobbies funded by the wealthiest segments of our society.
This is a recipe for CLASS WARFARE. You'll find that Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia has spoken out re. this situation since before he entered the Virginia primary in which he defeated longtime ITAA pro-outsourcing and pro-NIV President Harris Miller.
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is that such job requirements are designed to both discourage Americans as well as create the pretext that the company has sought qualified American job applicants but been unsuccessful in finding anyone who meets the necessary qualifications. Then, the company can use this bogus paper trail as the basis for filing a DoL application to hire a "business visa guest worker" under H-1b. Of course, it's remarkable how so many Indian H-1b applicants will meet the stated background requirements word for word... It's done with a wink and a nod. Seen it done.
It's all about confidence in the future, and businesses are not putting that in IT right now.
Well put. Here's a "for-instance": I won't encourage my extremely intelligent children to become software engineers or enter IT b/c of my first hand experiences. In fact, I'll go further: I'll actively discourage them from getting degrees in EE, CS or anything IT-centric. It's a stupid waste of money!! Every year, politicians increase the (H-1b) visa caps to allow in more foreign (read low wage) "business guest workers" based on fraudulent "labor shortage" claims by the same companies (Oracle, HP, Sun, Intel, Micro$oft, etc.) who are slashing their American IT workforce. And then, of course, there's the TATAs and Wipros and Infosys foreign workers deployed to the U.S. to facilitate offshore outsourcing or stationed here on contract to companies like LexisNexis and Nielsen... Nope, going into IT does NOT make sense for Americans. If you're in IT and don't have a way out, you're stuck but ironically, you could be stuck in the sort of upper middle class pay scale with the job skills currently in demand. So, enjoy the ride while you're desirable but don't expect it will last and for heaven's sake think carefully before you encourage American students to gamble so much on a deteriorating employment picture.
Companies can get workers from other countries IF American workers cannot meet the demand.
The demand is $1/hr tech support people that double as the billing department and moonlight as coders. Americans cannot legally fill this role in America for that price.
WRONG!!! That's why members of the Indian government occassionally refer to H-1b as the "outsourcing visa". Man, have you got alot to learn! It is a **MYTH** -- a grossly inaccurate claim -- that employers can only get an H-1b if they can't find a qualified American. Where have you been dude? Google up the YouTube vids of lawyers from a "big name" law firm explaining to paying business customers how to "technically" meet the standards of the law but "How NOT to hire an American" -- disqualify the Americans on some bogus pretext. Ron Hira from the IEEE-USA & EPI has been ALL OVER this issue!! Oh, and maybe you never bothered to read anything by Norman Matloff, the UC, Davis professor who has written academic papers and given Congressional testimony on this topic? Do some googling and read the reality of the situation -- not the phony claims of DoL bureaucrats and politicians anxious to please their business lobby friends and campaign contributors.
Sorry, access to those contract IT jobs is *not* the solution. At best, it's an opportunity for a limited few. I'm one of the limited few working in classified DoD contract work where no "business guest workers" from TATA/TCS, Wipro, HCL, Satyam and Infosys need apply. Even if you're a U.S. citizen, you have to have get interviewed and hurdles of getting past HR are immense esp if you have been out of work for awhile -- a situation not uncommon for American IT workers. (And, if you're not some fresh 20-something, you've already got a knock against you...) Once you get interviewed and hired, you may still have to pass a background check for a secret or top secret clearance. If you can't do that, you lose. An Oracle DBA who was hired on my project was walked to the door 2 weeks ago 'cuz the background investigation didn't go well. He may have "passed" for his interim secret but with less than full glowing recommendation of the investigator, he could still have been knocked out. There's alot of reasons why people can't pass... Not just real obvious things. So, the claim that gov't contract work is some sort of salvation for Americans in IT is fantasy. Alot of people can't hack it and you can bet that with a down economy, there's gonna be cut backs.
Well, the Bush administration tried to open up some of the the IT work in DoD contracts to allow for use of H-1b's -- non-citizen "business guest workers". I don't know how that went but at least I'm secure working on classified projects. (Interesting isn't it that in the Bush administration serving business desires to maximise profits trumped concern with security?)
Same here. Went thru outsourcings at NCR and LexisNexis. Train the imported Indian replacement workers in "knowledge transfers" and then collect your severence b4 the door hits you in the ___. Now, I often work very long hours but as long as I get things done, I've got a job in the upper end of the middle class. Those industry standard salary surveys are nonsense and I don't pay them any attention. Out in the "real world" IT work is often hard to get and salaries are not what they were in the past before so much work went offshore and so many non-Americans were imported to drive down salaries and opportunities here in the US.
Companies are busy replacing "expensive" American middle class tech workers with lower cost alternatives whenever possible. Here's a "for-instance" detailing the use of Indian IT workers from Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) to directly replace American IT workers in Florida at Nielsen. http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article818379.ece
Young Americans can't even get into entry level IT jobs, in many cases. They're competing with large, low-cost outsourcing firms which use foreign guest workers. These foreign guestworkers, regardless of federal laws and regulations, work for significantly less than prevailing wages and work many more hours than is typical of even workaholic American IT workes. Together with offshore outsourcing of many entry level programming jobs, the entry point for Americans into IT is being closed off. In addition, every year, more Americans are being forced out of IT through offshore outsourcing and expanded H-1b and L-1 foreign guest worker programs -- used by many corporations as *worker replacement programs*. I've seen it and lived it. There isn't an end in sight. In fact, I'll know in another few months whether my job and my co-workers' jobs will be headed to India. I'm a software enginer -- a DBA working for a "big name" international corporation using the newest, most advanced and costly software and hardware. I've got more than a decade of experience. My colleagues are similarly skilled and experience. We're ALL of the opinion that corporations prefer to offshore or use imported guest workers in preference to Americans or green card residents because they can pay so much less.
The above posting was mine. I didn't intend to post anon.
The present situation in which the middle class is losing ground is not as some would have it, the mysterious workings of a competitive, dynamic free market economy. It's the direct result of decades of corporate controlled multi-national trade agreements and labor arbitrage provisions facilitating the offshore outsourcing of work and the importation of "cheap labor" into the U.S.
I've fought this fight in the IT sector for more than 5 years now. Middle and upper middle class American IT workers have been methodically targeted for replacement with lower wage foreign replacement workers. Carly "the Outsourceress" Fiorina was notorious for this activity but she is hardly alone. Her successor at HP, Mark Hurd was part of the same dynamic during his tenure at NCR in Dayton, Ohio. Larry Ellison and Bill Gates have been whacking their American workforce for years while whining to Washington politicians that they can't find qualified American IT workers. The result: politicians keep expanding the number of foreign "guest workers" permitted into the U.S. under non-immigrant visa programs such as H-1b. (There's a push underway even now for an increase.)
I think that the many Americans seeking a middle class life, well-qualified to perform even advanced work who may have lost jobs, are under threat of job loss and seeing their wages/salaries pushed DOWN by offshore outsourcing and NIV work programs SHOULD be outraged at both the politicians and the so-called business leaders and the Wall Street investors who demand that American workers get kicked to the curb.
The wealth now accruing to the already wealthiest segments of our society represents an illegitimate TRANSFER of wealth from the American middle class.
The increasing share of wealth controlled by the richest Americans is NOT the result of any Darwinian "survival of the fittest". Offshore outsourcing, "free trade" and NIV worker replacement programs are POLITICAL creations driven by lobbies funded by the wealthiest segments of our society.
This is a recipe for CLASS WARFARE. You'll find that Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia has spoken out re. this situation since before he entered the Virginia primary in which he defeated longtime ITAA pro-outsourcing and pro-NIV President Harris Miller.