Now, who's screwing you out of money? If it's a company, then don't buy its products. Nobody's forcing you to fork over your cash for the latest consumer goodies.
Really? So if a corporation is screwing me by throwing huge amounts of pollution into the air I breathe, or say building huge dangerous cars that if they crash into me on the road will kill me, I can stop being screwed if I just don't buy it's products? What if I'm already not, and never have?
You can tell me I should convince others not to also. But what if I can't, or what if those others can't reasonably stop using the company's products? Then should I just accept 10 years off my life due to lung cancer?
BTW, what if the company sells products only to other countries. This may not apply as much in the US, but it does in other countries. If a company enters my country, sends tons of pollution into your air making its products, and then exports those products, how am I supposed to stop this company from doing what its doing?
"Although you don't recognize the idea of Communism as evil, by your own statements you have already condemned any implementation thereof."
Communism has worked in small groups of people. Democracy never worked in anything other than relatively small groups of people before the US, which isn't even really a true Democracy. The fact that the kinds of Communism we've seen so far didn't work doesn't mean none could work.
How about we just figure out somewhere to put it for about 50 years, by which time space access should be cheap enough to blast it all into the Sun or something.
Scott Adams = creator of Dilbert, and guy whose bio you linked to
Douglas Adams = creator of HHGTTG among many other things, and who just died
you = karma whore who used google to create a post, who has obviously never even read the books, and whose post is an insult to those who are still reeling from this news
When I have just booted into OS X, and have no apps or anything open(other than Apache, which probably is not serving any pages at the time), wtf is the PMT doing not giving the Finder 100% of the CPU for window resizing? What is it doing, saving 75% of the cycles in case I choose to do something else while resizing the window?
I've used it on machines from a G3/400 to a G4/533, and it is slow on all of them. If you think the speed is fine, your standards are pathetically low.
Try opening OmniWeb or IE - slower than opening IE on OS 9.
Try opening a new window in the Finder or OmniWeb. Slower than opening a new window in the Finder or IE in OS 9.
Try live resizing a window in OS X to near fullscren - far slower than OS 9, or than Windows, which also does live resizing.
Try moving or deleting large amounts of files in the Finder. Slower than OS 9(although if you use the terminal it can be very fast).
I've been using OS X full-time for the past three weeks. Don't try to tell me it runs fine. Oh yeah, "handle it" - well my 5200/75LC could "handle" Quake, it was just dog slow - just like OS X. I don't consider 1FPS or less on some window resizes in column view "handling it"
...is all the Mac users who for the past year+ have said that no one need more than a 400-500MHz machine, and now they get OS X and realize because there's practically no hardware Quartz acceleration, every one of your window resizes forces the CPU to do all the AA, drop shadows, updating the contents, etc. and guess what...a 400-500MHz G4 can't handle it!
in fact, a G4/733 can't handle it. no current Mac is fast enough to handle it. so now Mac users see just how underpowered a 500MHz G4 can be.
- this is not a troll. I am typing this in OS X on a G4/400. I, however, am not someone who thinks MHz is worthless.
Why don't you go read that book you link to? It's about not pushing your pig-headed morality on others.
Yeah. Define "others." You say it would be wrong to kill a small(but born) child. I say it would also be wrong to kill a chimp that is probably smarter than many retarded humans. I say it would also be wrong to torture even less intelligent animals(and yes removing your brain and integrating it into a cyborg's body is torture)
You make the assumption that animals don't have the same rights to life as humans, and then use that assumption to criticize my opinion that animals shouldn't be harmed.
ANBIYD says if you, or you and another consenting adult, wish to do something that may or definitely will harm one or both of you, that is your perogative. It does not say that you may force other intelligent beings to submit to pain, torture and death because you don't consider them as worthy of life as you.
BTW, there are chimps that can much more articulately express their displeasure with what is being done to them than small children or the mentally retarded.
Personally I don't care if users would rather shoot themselves in the head
Which was exactly his point. None of you who consider yourself ubergeeks will ever be able to design a good GUI because you think the CLI is awesome and end users suck. That's why it takes a company with the direction and organization the OSS community lacks to make something like Eazel.
I'll give animals "rights" as soon as they start observing the responsibilities that those right entail.
So you have a right to kill small, irresponsible children?
Or...So humans are responsible creatures, since we do things to the planet and other species that will probably result in all life on earth being destroyed if we don't stop?
I agree mankind wouldn't have got this far without enslaving animals. And the US wouldn't have gotten this far without slavery. How does the ends morally justify the means?
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - James K. Galbraith
The reason it's so slow is that the CPU is being forced to do almost everything for Quartz. By MWNY, Apple should have Quartz sending most of that shit to the 3D card to do all the vector graphics. This should eliminate all the slowness with resizing and scrolling.
Other slowness is just Apple needing to optimize. They are working like NeXT used to, and will optimize for speed on the.2 release(or in this case, 10.1, which should be at MWNY..1 =.0.1, and.2 =.1)
I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying for #3, but I think it's what I was thinking, which is that you basically do it like DivX for Mac(not sure if the PC version works this way):
the first time you open it, it asks you to find your copy of WiMP 6.3. When you do, it can use WiMP for the MPEG-4 decoding. It would be illegal for them to ship with WiMP included in their client, but there's nothing illegal about asking a user to find their own copy.
Same situation Mac users are facing with theme updates to OS X: you distribute a theme that takes the original Aqua theme and modifies some of the resources, and Apple legal will be all over your ass. But if you made a script which modified the user's own file, there would be no problem, as you would not be infringing on Apple's copyright(no Apple code in your script)
I'm not sure I understand what you say the problem with doing this is. It seems other developers have used essentially the same idea in different situations.
I have not seen anyone, even people complaining about the speed of their warezed build, say the checksum didn't match.
Anyway, doesn't it seem more likely that one of the devs that recieved this build leaked it, than one of the Apple engineers?
I guess it doesn't really matter what build it is. I hope I can get my hands on a copy of the final soon. OS 9 just crashed download a song off Napster again. That's the real reason for OS X.
If true, then why do people get the same checksum for the final and the RC that was shipped to devs? And why do some with the dev version say it's fast, and some with the final say it's dog-slow(slower than the PB!), if the final is so much different(I know you're not saying "so much" different, but if they removed the debug code and fixed a few remaining bugs...)
That article is BS. The retail version is bit by bit, byte by byte identical to 4K78 shipped to devs. Here is a post from MacNN forums explaining the situation(was a reply to the same article):
-----
No this is wrong, and I've already contacted the author. The article about 4K78 couldn't be more wrong. There was one single, unique build of 4K78 and that's it. The Developer RC CD and the final Retail CD have identical bytecounts, checksums, creation and modification dates, etc. Apple/NeXT's versioning system had ONE unique build number per build, and that is it. Between builds, there can be modifications and builds of components, but each full build with an associated build designation is the only one there is. Now: there were some 4K78's floating around the net that had been imaged with Disk Copy rather than Toast that won't show proper sizes and dates. But any properly created images and/or actual, official CDs will all be identical. There are NO CHANGES, in any way, from the Developer RC CD to today's Retail CD. I don't know how more pointedly to put it. Some people actually go so far as to say Apple is tricking you by making the Retail CD "look like" the Developer RC, even though it's really different. You have to be fucking kidding me. The bottom line is Apple does not have dozens, several, or even two builds of 4K78. There is one, and it was accepted as RC, accepted as GM, and accepted for manufacuring. There WERE NOT daily builds of OS X after RC was declared. 4K78, in its single incarnation, was the end of the line. If people want to *believe* that the Retail 4K78 is different from the RC 4K78, great. But it's not true. Posting articles like this further confuses the issue. The MAIN reason 4K78 was left in was so that people could see FOR SURE that the Retail was the same as the RC: that's the WHOLE PURPOSE of a build number - to uniquely and certainly identify a build. It started out with people being convinced that there were 4K8* series builds (there were never, and never will be, 4K8* builds. Future OS X development will happen in totally different build trees with different versioning, milestones, etc.), with people wanting to believe there was something oh-so-much-better than OS X 4K78. Then, when people were finally convinced that what was in the boxes was 4K78, build number in the About Box and all, they said "maybe Jobs will announce something on the 21st". When nothing was announced on the 21st, they started grasping at straws, making up ridiculous stories about how there were many many different 4K78's and the developer 4K78 was an internal debug version and the retail version is some magical optimized version rebuilt several times, yet still maintains the 4K78 designation and was even designed to LOOK identical to the developer RC to throw people off, with fake checksums and all?? It defies logic. And well it should, because none of it is true. 4K78 is 4K78 is 4K78, period. What's in peoples' boxes this Saturday is identical in every way to what developers received 3 weeks ago. And it's a great release; enjoy.
PS - Doesn't anyone realize what a support nightmare having multiple builds with the same build number would be. That's just rediculous. For the LAST TIME: any (legitimately obtained) copy of 4K78 is the same as ANY other 4K78.
THE MAC OS X DEVELOPER RELEASE CANDIDATE 4K78 CD IS IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY TO THE MAC OS X 10.0 RETAIL 4K78 CD. THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES WHATSOVER.
The author of the article was kind enough to respond, and conceded that it was just a "theory", i.e. he hasn't compare the CDs himself. Additionally, he's more referring to illegally obtained builds of of hotline and carracho, which could be fake, improperly imaged, etc. All REAL 4K78's out there, i.e. ones obtained legitimately from Apple, are CERTAIN to be identical.
To me what matters is not their motivations, but their accomplishments. The fact that when 1957 began no human had ever gone into outer space, and when 1969 ended 2 humans had landed on the moon, is simply astonishing. And where are we now? Still using that 25 year old scrap heap called the Space Shuttle, with no prospect of stopping any time in the near future.
I think with proper funding, we could easily have a colony on Mars by now. But as I see it at this point there are only two hopes:
1) private industry setting up space hotels for the rich, and eventually bringing the cost down significantly
2) China. if China soon sends a man into space, and then appears ready to go to the Moon and/or Mars, it may finally get our government willing to shell out some bucks to get us there first - just like the 60s.
if he'd laid it on any thicker I would've suffocated. maybe the reason we have people posting crap about CmdrTaco raping animals is because 95% of the people here can't understand more subtle criticism.
...and now even ShoeBoy is no more....time to nuke the site from orbit, I think
Unless you presume that person irrational, that person is better off in universe B.
This seems to be the crux of all/many libertarian beliefs, and I certainly do presume that people are irrational. That I am irrational. If we weren't on the internet, I'd ask you to take a look at my ears. Hint: they're not pointy. I'm not a vulcan. I am not 100% rational.
Let me ask: how are people in the tragedy of commons acting rationally? And don't try to pretend that the tragedy of commons is merely some hypothetical situation. It happens countless times every day.
A nice, happy global society sounds like a good idea, but until there are NO evil people in the world, it will not work.
How can you be sure of this. There are evils in our country, and yet we have 50 states that generally submit to the authority of the federal government. Why couldn't Earth act as one big country, making decisions together while leaving "states" with some level of autonomy?
I'm not saying this is very likely to happen, but I don't see why it's impossible. The EU is already starting to look more and more like one big country. I could see large groups like the US and the EU forming, and then eventually joining into one giant country.
Not that this is necessarily the greatest idea. One of the benefit of having different countries is their different laws. Want to smoke pot but the US won't let you? Move to the Netherlands. Want to be a neo-nazi but Germany won't let you? Move to the US. Want to live in a gun-free society but US has lax gun laws? Move to Great Britain. I don't know if losing this variety would be all that great a thing. Still, I think it could happen.
Yeah, and clearly if I see you about to be run over by a car, and I save you, you will still die someday. It's not like you're immortal. Still, I don't think anyone would say I only prolonged your life if I pushed you out of the way. They'd say I saved your life.
Also, I believe some of these drugs actually may lower the transmission rate, as hinted at in the article.
a page with lots of info:
on
The Challenger
·
· Score: 2
Slashdot Mirror
Now, who's screwing you out of money? If it's a company, then don't buy its products. Nobody's forcing you to fork over your cash for the latest consumer goodies.
Really? So if a corporation is screwing me by throwing huge amounts of pollution into the air I breathe, or say building huge dangerous cars that if they crash into me on the road will kill me, I can stop being screwed if I just don't buy it's products? What if I'm already not, and never have?
You can tell me I should convince others not to also. But what if I can't, or what if those others can't reasonably stop using the company's products? Then should I just accept 10 years off my life due to lung cancer?
BTW, what if the company sells products only to other countries. This may not apply as much in the US, but it does in other countries. If a company enters my country, sends tons of pollution into your air making its products, and then exports those products, how am I supposed to stop this company from doing what its doing?
"Although you don't recognize the idea of Communism as evil, by your own statements you have already condemned any implementation thereof."
Communism has worked in small groups of people. Democracy never worked in anything other than relatively small groups of people before the US, which isn't even really a true Democracy. The fact that the kinds of Communism we've seen so far didn't work doesn't mean none could work.
How about we just figure out somewhere to put it for about 50 years, by which time space access should be cheap enough to blast it all into the Sun or something.
Scott Adams = creator of Dilbert, and guy whose bio you linked to
Douglas Adams = creator of HHGTTG among many other things, and who just died
you = karma whore who used google to create a post, who has obviously never even read the books, and whose post is an insult to those who are still reeling from this news
When I have just booted into OS X, and have no apps or anything open(other than Apache, which probably is not serving any pages at the time), wtf is the PMT doing not giving the Finder 100% of the CPU for window resizing? What is it doing, saving 75% of the cycles in case I choose to do something else while resizing the window?
Stop being such an idiot.
I've used it on machines from a G3/400 to a G4/533, and it is slow on all of them. If you think the speed is fine, your standards are pathetically low.
Try opening OmniWeb or IE - slower than opening IE on OS 9.
Try opening a new window in the Finder or OmniWeb. Slower than opening a new window in the Finder or IE in OS 9.
Try live resizing a window in OS X to near fullscren - far slower than OS 9, or than Windows, which also does live resizing.
Try moving or deleting large amounts of files in the Finder. Slower than OS 9(although if you use the terminal it can be very fast).
I've been using OS X full-time for the past three weeks. Don't try to tell me it runs fine. Oh yeah, "handle it" - well my 5200/75LC could "handle" Quake, it was just dog slow - just like OS X. I don't consider 1FPS or less on some window resizes in column view "handling it"
...is all the Mac users who for the past year+ have said that no one need more than a 400-500MHz machine, and now they get OS X and realize because there's practically no hardware Quartz acceleration, every one of your window resizes forces the CPU to do all the AA, drop shadows, updating the contents, etc. and guess what...a 400-500MHz G4 can't handle it!
in fact, a G4/733 can't handle it. no current Mac is fast enough to handle it. so now Mac users see just how underpowered a 500MHz G4 can be.
- this is not a troll. I am typing this in OS X on a G4/400. I, however, am not someone who thinks MHz is worthless.
Why don't you go read that book you link to? It's about not pushing your pig-headed morality on others.
Yeah. Define "others." You say it would be wrong to kill a small(but born) child. I say it would also be wrong to kill a chimp that is probably smarter than many retarded humans. I say it would also be wrong to torture even less intelligent animals(and yes removing your brain and integrating it into a cyborg's body is torture)
You make the assumption that animals don't have the same rights to life as humans, and then use that assumption to criticize my opinion that animals shouldn't be harmed.
ANBIYD says if you, or you and another consenting adult, wish to do something that may or definitely will harm one or both of you, that is your perogative. It does not say that you may force other intelligent beings to submit to pain, torture and death because you don't consider them as worthy of life as you.
BTW, there are chimps that can much more articulately express their displeasure with what is being done to them than small children or the mentally retarded.
Personally I don't care if users would rather shoot themselves in the head
Which was exactly his point. None of you who consider yourself ubergeeks will ever be able to design a good GUI because you think the CLI is awesome and end users suck. That's why it takes a company with the direction and organization the OSS community lacks to make something like Eazel.
I'll give animals "rights" as soon as they start observing the responsibilities that those right entail.
So you have a right to kill small, irresponsible children?
Or...So humans are responsible creatures, since we do things to the planet and other species that will probably result in all life on earth being destroyed if we don't stop?
I agree mankind wouldn't have got this far without enslaving animals. And the US wouldn't have gotten this far without slavery. How does the ends morally justify the means?
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - James K. Galbraith
That basically sums it up pretty nicely IMO.
The reason it's so slow is that the CPU is being forced to do almost everything for Quartz. By MWNY, Apple should have Quartz sending most of that shit to the 3D card to do all the vector graphics. This should eliminate all the slowness with resizing and scrolling.
.2 release(or in this case, 10.1, which should be at MWNY. .1 = .0.1, and .2 = .1)
Other slowness is just Apple needing to optimize. They are working like NeXT used to, and will optimize for speed on the
I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying for #3, but I think it's what I was thinking, which is that you basically do it like DivX for Mac(not sure if the PC version works this way):
the first time you open it, it asks you to find your copy of WiMP 6.3. When you do, it can use WiMP for the MPEG-4 decoding. It would be illegal for them to ship with WiMP included in their client, but there's nothing illegal about asking a user to find their own copy.
Same situation Mac users are facing with theme updates to OS X: you distribute a theme that takes the original Aqua theme and modifies some of the resources, and Apple legal will be all over your ass. But if you made a script which modified the user's own file, there would be no problem, as you would not be infringing on Apple's copyright(no Apple code in your script)
I'm not sure I understand what you say the problem with doing this is. It seems other developers have used essentially the same idea in different situations.
This is probably something like what you're looking for, though the word "Aida" can't be found at all with the others.
Yeah, OS X has a bigger brightness difference and has a drop shadow around the window. Much better.
I have not seen anyone, even people complaining about the speed of their warezed build, say the checksum didn't match.
Anyway, doesn't it seem more likely that one of the devs that recieved this build leaked it, than one of the Apple engineers?
I guess it doesn't really matter what build it is. I hope I can get my hands on a copy of the final soon. OS 9 just crashed download a song off Napster again. That's the real reason for OS X.
If true, then why do people get the same checksum for the final and the RC that was shipped to devs? And why do some with the dev version say it's fast, and some with the final say it's dog-slow(slower than the PB!), if the final is so much different(I know you're not saying "so much" different, but if they removed the debug code and fixed a few remaining bugs...)
That article is BS. The retail version is bit by bit, byte by byte identical to 4K78 shipped to devs. Here is a post from MacNN forums explaining the situation(was a reply to the same article):
-----
No this is wrong, and I've already contacted the author. The article about 4K78 couldn't be more wrong. There was one single, unique build of 4K78 and that's it. The Developer RC CD and the final Retail CD have identical bytecounts, checksums, creation and modification dates, etc. Apple/NeXT's versioning system had ONE unique build number per build, and that is it. Between builds, there can be modifications and builds of components, but each full build with an associated build designation is the only one there is. Now: there were some 4K78's floating around the net that had been imaged with Disk Copy rather than Toast that won't show proper sizes and dates. But any properly created images and/or actual, official CDs will all be identical. There are NO CHANGES, in any way, from the Developer RC CD to today's Retail CD. I don't know how more pointedly to put it. Some people actually go so far as to say Apple is tricking you by making the Retail CD "look like" the Developer RC, even though it's really different. You have to be fucking kidding me. The bottom line is Apple does not have dozens, several, or even two builds of 4K78. There is one, and it was accepted as RC, accepted as GM, and accepted for manufacuring. There WERE NOT daily builds of OS X after RC was declared. 4K78, in its single incarnation, was the end of the line. If people want to *believe* that the Retail 4K78 is different from the RC 4K78, great. But it's not true. Posting articles like this further confuses the issue. The MAIN reason 4K78 was left in was so that people could see FOR SURE that the Retail was the same as the RC: that's the WHOLE PURPOSE of a build number - to uniquely and certainly identify a build. It started out with people being convinced that there were 4K8* series builds (there were never, and never will be, 4K8* builds. Future OS X development will happen in totally different build trees with different versioning, milestones, etc.), with people wanting to believe there was something oh-so-much-better than OS X 4K78. Then, when people were finally convinced that what was in the boxes was 4K78, build number in the About Box and all, they said "maybe Jobs will announce something on the 21st". When nothing was announced on the 21st, they started grasping at straws, making up ridiculous stories about how there were many many different 4K78's and the developer 4K78 was an internal debug version and the retail version is some magical optimized version rebuilt several times, yet still maintains the 4K78 designation and was even designed to LOOK identical to the developer RC to throw people off, with fake checksums and all?? It defies logic. And well it should, because none of it is true. 4K78 is 4K78 is 4K78, period. What's in peoples' boxes this Saturday is identical in every way to what developers received 3 weeks ago. And it's a great release; enjoy.
PS - Doesn't anyone realize what a support nightmare having multiple builds with the same build number would be. That's just rediculous. For the LAST TIME: any (legitimately obtained) copy of 4K78 is the same as ANY other 4K78.
THE MAC OS X DEVELOPER RELEASE CANDIDATE 4K78 CD IS IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY TO THE MAC OS X 10.0 RETAIL 4K78 CD. THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES WHATSOVER.
The author of the article was kind enough to respond, and conceded that it was just a "theory", i.e. he hasn't compare the CDs himself. Additionally, he's more referring to illegally obtained builds of of hotline and carracho, which could be fake, improperly imaged, etc. All REAL 4K78's out there, i.e. ones obtained legitimately from Apple, are CERTAIN to be identical.
To me what matters is not their motivations, but their accomplishments. The fact that when 1957 began no human had ever gone into outer space, and when 1969 ended 2 humans had landed on the moon, is simply astonishing. And where are we now? Still using that 25 year old scrap heap called the Space Shuttle, with no prospect of stopping any time in the near future.
I think with proper funding, we could easily have a colony on Mars by now. But as I see it at this point there are only two hopes:
1) private industry setting up space hotels for the rich, and eventually bringing the cost down significantly
2) China. if China soon sends a man into space, and then appears ready to go to the Moon and/or Mars, it may finally get our government willing to shell out some bucks to get us there first - just like the 60s.
if the physics are easy enough, the computer will never miss, and it doesn't have to think about that sort of thing
"Was that sarcasm?"
if he'd laid it on any thicker I would've suffocated. maybe the reason we have people posting crap about CmdrTaco raping animals is because 95% of the people here can't understand more subtle criticism.
...and now even ShoeBoy is no more....time to nuke the site from orbit, I think
Unless you presume that person irrational, that person is better off in universe B.
This seems to be the crux of all/many libertarian beliefs, and I certainly do presume that people are irrational. That I am irrational. If we weren't on the internet, I'd ask you to take a look at my ears. Hint: they're not pointy. I'm not a vulcan. I am not 100% rational.
Let me ask: how are people in the tragedy of commons acting rationally? And don't try to pretend that the tragedy of commons is merely some hypothetical situation. It happens countless times every day.
this is correct
A nice, happy global society sounds like a good idea, but until there are NO evil people in the world, it will not work.
How can you be sure of this. There are evils in our country, and yet we have 50 states that generally submit to the authority of the federal government. Why couldn't Earth act as one big country, making decisions together while leaving "states" with some level of autonomy?
I'm not saying this is very likely to happen, but I don't see why it's impossible. The EU is already starting to look more and more like one big country. I could see large groups like the US and the EU forming, and then eventually joining into one giant country.
Not that this is necessarily the greatest idea. One of the benefit of having different countries is their different laws. Want to smoke pot but the US won't let you? Move to the Netherlands. Want to be a neo-nazi but Germany won't let you? Move to the US. Want to live in a gun-free society but US has lax gun laws? Move to Great Britain. I don't know if losing this variety would be all that great a thing. Still, I think it could happen.
Yeah, and clearly if I see you about to be run over by a car, and I save you, you will still die someday. It's not like you're immortal. Still, I don't think anyone would say I only prolonged your life if I pushed you out of the way. They'd say I saved your life.
Also, I believe some of these drugs actually may lower the transmission rate, as hinted at in the article.
Challenger
This page and the ones after it describe in great detail what happened before, during, and after the crash.