Why don't we discuss what could happen if Ron Paul went ahead with it somehow? Discuss what could happen and why, rather than scare tactics for this or that opinion?
Here's a potential scenario, please feel free to add more:
b) Sports/admin get slashed, leaving teacher's unions/tenured profs unchanged though. Funding is hurt, but those teachers who have federal funding for research continue on. The glut of cheap grad students ends, forcing profs to actually do meaningful research instead of pump out research papers as fast as possible. America also freaks out that they don't have their precious college sports anymore, and we get back to focusing our spare time on more important issues than fantasy football. Those colleges which get scared and try to keep their revenue stream by slashing teachers and keeping admin/sports eventually realize the no-win situation they're in and either close down or restructure. PERHAPS we even get college which drop teaching entirely and become minor league sports franchises (some of them probably already could, successfully. I'm looking at you Florida State, who has one of the worst academic records out there since you pay teachers less than beans, but has a RABID college football following)
Nice post! Here's a scary idea (half sarcy half not): Maybe a lot of people shouldn't be going to college? Are they really learning that much? I know someone who is trying to be a librarian, taking on a lot of student debt to do so, and she is incredibly narrow-minded and incurious. By all accounts, she is one (of which I have known too many) who do not seem to benefit from a degree. It is not expanding their horizons, the only outcome will be a lot of debt and MAYBE getting a low-paying job as a grade school librarian. However, I'm open to debating the idea.
On another note: Many of them seem too idealistic, BUT I can't forget how idealistic I am too, and how we need idealistic people to affect change sometimes.... so I contradict myself? Large/contain multitudes/etc.
While the parent is being pretty troll-ish, I have to admit: Those I know who paid their way through college do seem hard-working.
Trouble is, most of them come across as very narrow-minded and "I just want more money". They've worked so hard that they missed the entire point of college: Higher Education! What good is a college if it just produces more workers and not enough thinkers? THINKERS need time to think, and also, about the drinking Mister Parent Post:
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. People NEED some time to hash out their lives and screw up, especially in such a media-soaked, crazy-ass world. It also makes for for some damn good stories. Without the idlers what ideal would we strive toward while working? To crawl back home to bed, only to wake up 4 hours later in order to go back to the Job We Love? Always On? Always Productive? Works for some, but for many the product of that is just death soon after retirement, with no more work to do. What kind of life is that?
Also, let's play Find The Logical Fallacies in my post, my apologies.
Ok, but at least he'd bring about some change. Destroy the system and let people build it back up, shake up the power base and make some opportunities.
MORE importantly: He'd finally scare/piss off enough people that we might start participating as a people in our republic!
If I had mod points I would mod you DOWN. How is this relevant to the discussion or helpful in ANY way? Can you please give us some useful discussion? Also, the AC that says he's stupid, YOU'RE not helping the situation!!!! STOP fighting amongst yourselves and START having a discussion, it's the ONLY way we can begin fixing these problems of ours.
Uhhhhh what are you people talking about? You already *DO* pay these dollars pretax! You get to deduct the interest for student loans (up to a certain salary cap) on our taxes!
Do NONE of you either a) do this (you're missing out) or b) have student loans?
Except if you actually talk to professors at colleges, even fairly good ones (colleges & profs), they are likely to tell you that administration and sports are the ones getting the big bucks, while they get next to nothing extra to improve the learning experience. I cite a couple friends of mine and a slashdotter who posted about this in a thread from a few days ago. YMMV
Unfortunately, with such a twisted legal system, that could be tough.
Someone here on slashdot gave an account of an executive hiring his wife as an IT project engineer. She had no experience, and proceeded to run the entire project into the ground. However, since she had an executive title, she went on to other companies and made a lot of money, while her assistant (who had to do 2 jobs, manage and fix/develop this project), who was quite experienced and competent, had his career ruined.
I mention this because it might not be that hard to shift the blame over to other people when the legal poop starts hitting the fan.
However, I WILL contradict myself too and point out that certified civil engineers are held legally liable for structures they develop. To keep the analogy straight, though, there aren't people with pick axes, buzz saws, and baseball bats constantly trying to tear down said structure, where-as in security IT this is the case.
Replying to my own post here, if anyone is still reading this overall discussion.
Litigious world: I do not condone illegal activity.
I think causality might have the way of it: The way to cut them off is to stop feeding the beast. What if monetary protests began, like very large numbers of people not paying taxes, not shopping for goods and services, and generally peaceful civil disobedience occurred? Also, the idea that those higher up WANT us to commit violence to seal a litigious fate worse than death does make some sense. I know some very sick people in positions of power who seem to love seeing this sort of thing, they get all holier-than-thou, like it gives them a reason to exist since they are the "calm, rational ones", while they often seem to be deeply manipulative instigators. It makes me wonder how twisted/disconnected from reality the real power brokers are.
As far as the UK riots... I see them and on one hand I hope it brings meaningful change, but a part of me knows it probably won't, that violence just gives the media a chance to have a field day. We've gotten SO used to violence on TV that when real violence happens it's just another show to enjoy, which seems a bit scary.
One of the only hopes I can really hold onto solidly is that NO country that has ever existed has been able to keep these practices up for too long. In our modern era it may be easier with media, so the bread and circuses may continue for longer, but I have to wonder how far our resources can take us in keeping up such a charade. It's a weak hope, but it's something.
Here here. (does that qualify this as a "me too" post?)
Over the last few years I feel as if more and more "Violence is the answer" posts around the internet are popping up. Some may argue that freedom is only won with the blood of patriots, but I deeply hope that our republic is not so far gone that this is the only option left (and one that is, honestly, not likely to happen in any case). So, while I also do not condone illegal activity, I can say that I hope transparency and fairness can be reintroduced peacefully, that the sordid and the powerful can be humbled by whatever means is best for the most people.
Also, something about Tarkin, and a grasp, and slipping through fingers?
oh, and one more thing about all this wikileaks BS.
I've known a few fed employees who hold the line on this insanity. You know what they're afraid of losing? They don't have kids, they're aren't living in squalor or anything... they're worried about losing their FUCKING PINBALL MACHINES and their LORD OF THE RINGS COLLECTION!!!!!!
People are shredding YOUR rights so they can have a bunch of STUPID toys! It's OBSCENE!
I am sorry for the rant, but I feel quite strongly about this subject, and knowing some of the people who perpetrate it first hand, it makes me even sicker to see our democratic republic die for a fucking movie series. We ALL deserve better.
They're still out there trying stop Wikileaks (obviously), these intelligence firms. Their aims?
Feed the fuel between the feuding groups. Disinformation. Create messages around actions of sabotage or discredit the opposing organizations. Submit fake documents and then call out the error.
Create concern over the security of the infrastructure. Create exposure stories. If the process is believed not to be secure they are done.
Cyber attacks against the infrastructure to get data on document submitters. This would kill the project. Since the servers are now in Sweden and France putting a team together to get access is more straightforward.
Media campaign to push the radial and reckless nature of WikiLeaks activities. Sustain pressure. Does nothing for the fanatics, but creates concern and doubt among moderates.
Search for leaks. Use social media to profile and identify risky behavior of employees.
They might stop one employee, but if we all do it they won't have enough manpower to keep going. It's disobedience, and it works when enough people say,"I won't be part of this anymore."
Oh come on! I got modded down for expressing the unpopular sentiment that we are actually having fun playing Wow, and are looking forward to this, but that blizz has some interesting marketing techniques?
Look, I know it's not popular, but for someone new this game is a blast. It may be grinding, but it has it's challenges with lots of numbers to optimize and decisions to make (we hate PvP, we like working with others instead so don't worry about this "geared up" nonsense very much). We LOVE seeing the beautiful new venues, collecting outfits, and interacting together in this world blizzard created.
As far as a legitimate idea instead of gushing/ranting, here's one: I hope WoW gets more popularity because I told my girlfriend about Titan, that it's a sci-fi MMO, and she looked right at me and said,"Nope, not interested." I've gotten that feeling elsewhere, so I hope future additions breathe a little life into a franchise that will always have detractors and adherents.
I don't CARE if MOST of the troops leave... What seems important to me and I hope many people is what is it COSTING us now and after some more troops leave? if one guy is still there, but 10 military bases are being powered and run, and supplies are still flowing in, it's wasting an already bloated budget.
-bow-
My girlfriend and I just started playing WoW about 2 months ago. We've had a lot of fun, honestly. We're both working full time AND studying for professional certifications, so we don't really have time to go out. Staying in and playing WoW has kept us tied to our desks in order to get everything done, and allowed us to socialize together, with others, and have fun with the small amount of free time we do have (and stay up too late with gin & tonics occasionally).
I can't speak for those who've played for a long time, but I love the way WoW has is set up now with the current expansion. The new enhancements sound like a delight, too. We're really excited! Some may say it's just renting a game every month, but compared to what we used to spend on going out to eat and socializing? Warcraft is a saving us quite a bit of money.
Only thing is.... 12 months of WoW for diablo 3 free, when D3 basically sounds like a "rope'em in and then charge them" deal.. I don't know. A neat move on Blizz's part, though. Get new WoW members and Diablo 3 adherents... pretty slick marketing move.
girls! girls! you're BOTH beautiful, and there's a reception after the pageant where there'll be cocktails...
Really, this was shaping up to be an interesting and informative altercation until the ad hominem. I understand you both have very strong views, but for the benefit of the rest of us, would either of you be so kind as to elaborate on some of this? It sounds fascinating.
Ok, my girlfriend and I started playing WoW about 2 months ago. SHE was the one that came to ME after we both poo-poo'd the purchased mounts. They're usable by all characters in one realm for that person, and the thing goes faster as you get better mounts. Basically, it's not just vanity, it actually helps lots of your characters get around. The way we see it, they're offering some value for what we might pay. Drinking the kool-aid? A little, I'm sure.
Lovely, so you went there on a Sunday, when protesting doesn't do any good anyway because everyone is relaxing and away from work, and you come back here to tell us the protest is small? That's some great journalism there, Lou.
Aha! THIS is the problem (sorry, not trying to be too harsh...) I see with IT/analytics and starting a union too. They all want to have specifically defined goals to accomplish. The problem is exactly what Big Media sees too: There ISN'T one big problem anymore. There are SO MANY PROBLEMS at this point that the system is faltering madly.
We need such a large group of people to get behind this that NO ONE can come up with one idea that everyone will agree on, the modern era of information is too individualized. We need to give some of this up for now. What we need now is CONSENSUS. We must band together and be a GROUP, A BIG GROUP, who cares about bettering the country, NOT having just one issue, but a group of issues. THAT'S HOW POLITICAL GROUPS FORM (sorry for caps), they have a wide agenda and get people behind it. If it were just one issue (this BS about civil rights versus the mending of an entire financial system is crazy, they're just not the same it would be easier, but it's just not.
As a financial Advisor, I see this excuse from people all the time: We can't save, we're too strapped!
Frankly, it's a bad excuse. I've seen people do this for 10-15 years, not saving, but then they call us up and say how they redid the basement, the landscaping, bought a new car for junior blah blah blah.
Just start funding it, and don't stop. Financial habits are likely to fall in around that.
Also, if something isn't a priority, it won't get done. This issue is about national priorities (sports profits oil war facebook SUV gluten-free liberal arts degree anti-intelligence cockamamie). Give some funding to NASA for advertising, you might be amazed how many more of the people with the above priorities begin to change their minds, but just like NASA projects the time horizon is a long one.
Except that police organizations and government entities have shown a troubling propensity for violating the rights we are SUPPOSED to have in public. Cameras will allow them even more ability to infringe on the rights of the average citizen (even if that citizen isn't using them... yet). It's not about JUST expectation of privacy, I'll give you that side of it, it's the fight for stopping them from hemming in on other rights, like the right to assemble peacefully.
Posting a "me too" comment amongst so many who seem to think otherwise.
I used to get ~31-33 mpg with my 2009 Elantra, half city half highway driving. Pop it in neutral to roll to red lights/have some momentum when the light turns green, and now I average 35-36 over the life of each tank of gas. It really seems to help, that and putting it in neutral at each light.
...to say that I, for one, welcome our new electric-powered gambling overlords.
That's some good publicity they've both got there. I'm sure this will help push preorders along for Tesla.
Slashdot Mirror
Why don't we discuss what could happen if Ron Paul went ahead with it somehow? Discuss what could happen and why, rather than scare tactics for this or that opinion?
Here's a potential scenario, please feel free to add more:
b) Sports/admin get slashed, leaving teacher's unions/tenured profs unchanged though. Funding is hurt, but those teachers who have federal funding for research continue on. The glut of cheap grad students ends, forcing profs to actually do meaningful research instead of pump out research papers as fast as possible. America also freaks out that they don't have their precious college sports anymore, and we get back to focusing our spare time on more important issues than fantasy football.
Those colleges which get scared and try to keep their revenue stream by slashing teachers and keeping admin/sports eventually realize the no-win situation they're in and either close down or restructure. PERHAPS we even get college which drop teaching entirely and become minor league sports franchises (some of them probably already could, successfully. I'm looking at you Florida State, who has one of the worst academic records out there since you pay teachers less than beans, but has a RABID college football following)
Nice post!
Here's a scary idea (half sarcy half not): Maybe a lot of people shouldn't be going to college? Are they really learning that much? I know someone who is trying to be a librarian, taking on a lot of student debt to do so, and she is incredibly narrow-minded and incurious. By all accounts, she is one (of which I have known too many) who do not seem to benefit from a degree. It is not expanding their horizons, the only outcome will be a lot of debt and MAYBE getting a low-paying job as a grade school librarian. However, I'm open to debating the idea.
On another note: Many of them seem too idealistic, BUT I can't forget how idealistic I am too, and how we need idealistic people to affect change sometimes....
so I contradict myself? Large/contain multitudes/etc.
While the parent is being pretty troll-ish, I have to admit: Those I know who paid their way through college do seem hard-working.
Trouble is, most of them come across as very narrow-minded and "I just want more money". They've worked so hard that they missed the entire point of college: Higher Education!
What good is a college if it just produces more workers and not enough thinkers? THINKERS need time to think, and also, about the drinking Mister Parent Post:
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. People NEED some time to hash out their lives and screw up, especially in such a media-soaked, crazy-ass world. It also makes for for some damn good stories.
Without the idlers what ideal would we strive toward while working? To crawl back home to bed, only to wake up 4 hours later in order to go back to the Job We Love? Always On? Always Productive? Works for some, but for many the product of that is just death soon after retirement, with no more work to do. What kind of life is that?
Also, let's play Find The Logical Fallacies in my post, my apologies.
Ok, but at least he'd bring about some change. Destroy the system and let people build it back up, shake up the power base and make some opportunities.
MORE importantly: He'd finally scare/piss off enough people that we might start participating as a people in our republic!
If I had mod points I would mod you DOWN. How is this relevant to the discussion or helpful in ANY way? Can you please give us some useful discussion? Also, the AC that says he's stupid, YOU'RE not helping the situation!!!! STOP fighting amongst yourselves and START having a discussion, it's the ONLY way we can begin fixing these problems of ours.
Come on, this is Slashdot, we do much better.
Uhhhhh what are you people talking about? You already *DO* pay these dollars pretax! You get to deduct the interest for student loans (up to a certain salary cap) on our taxes!
Do NONE of you either a) do this (you're missing out) or b) have student loans?
Except if you actually talk to professors at colleges, even fairly good ones (colleges & profs), they are likely to tell you that administration and sports are the ones getting the big bucks, while they get next to nothing extra to improve the learning experience. I cite a couple friends of mine and a slashdotter who posted about this in a thread from a few days ago. YMMV
Unfortunately, with such a twisted legal system, that could be tough.
Someone here on slashdot gave an account of an executive hiring his wife as an IT project engineer. She had no experience, and proceeded to run the entire project into the ground. However, since she had an executive title, she went on to other companies and made a lot of money, while her assistant (who had to do 2 jobs, manage and fix/develop this project), who was quite experienced and competent, had his career ruined.
I mention this because it might not be that hard to shift the blame over to other people when the legal poop starts hitting the fan.
However, I WILL contradict myself too and point out that certified civil engineers are held legally liable for structures they develop. To keep the analogy straight, though, there aren't people with pick axes, buzz saws, and baseball bats constantly trying to tear down said structure, where-as in security IT this is the case.
I'd mod you up if I could. It's really nice to see some different slants on ideas.
Replying to my own post here, if anyone is still reading this overall discussion.
Litigious world: I do not condone illegal activity.
I think causality might have the way of it: The way to cut them off is to stop feeding the beast. What if monetary protests began, like very large numbers of people not paying taxes, not shopping for goods and services, and generally peaceful civil disobedience occurred?
Also, the idea that those higher up WANT us to commit violence to seal a litigious fate worse than death does make some sense. I know some very sick people in positions of power who seem to love seeing this sort of thing, they get all holier-than-thou, like it gives them a reason to exist since they are the "calm, rational ones", while they often seem to be deeply manipulative instigators. It makes me wonder how twisted/disconnected from reality the real power brokers are.
As far as the UK riots... I see them and on one hand I hope it brings meaningful change, but a part of me knows it probably won't, that violence just gives the media a chance to have a field day. We've gotten SO used to violence on TV that when real violence happens it's just another show to enjoy, which seems a bit scary.
One of the only hopes I can really hold onto solidly is that NO country that has ever existed has been able to keep these practices up for too long. In our modern era it may be easier with media, so the bread and circuses may continue for longer, but I have to wonder how far our resources can take us in keeping up such a charade. It's a weak hope, but it's something.
Here here. (does that qualify this as a "me too" post?)
Over the last few years I feel as if more and more "Violence is the answer" posts around the internet are popping up. Some may argue that freedom is only won with the blood of patriots, but I deeply hope that our republic is not so far gone that this is the only option left (and one that is, honestly, not likely to happen in any case). So, while I also do not condone illegal activity, I can say that I hope transparency and fairness can be reintroduced peacefully, that the sordid and the powerful can be humbled by whatever means is best for the most people.
Also, something about Tarkin, and a grasp, and slipping through fingers?
oh, and one more thing about all this wikileaks BS.
I've known a few fed employees who hold the line on this insanity. You know what they're afraid of losing? They don't have kids, they're aren't living in squalor or anything... they're worried about losing their FUCKING PINBALL MACHINES and their LORD OF THE RINGS COLLECTION!!!!!!
People are shredding YOUR rights so they can have a bunch of STUPID toys! It's OBSCENE!
I am sorry for the rant, but I feel quite strongly about this subject, and knowing some of the people who perpetrate it first hand, it makes me even sicker to see our democratic republic die for a fucking movie series. We ALL deserve better.
They're still out there trying stop Wikileaks (obviously), these intelligence firms. Their aims?
Feed the fuel between the feuding groups. Disinformation. Create messages around actions of sabotage or discredit the opposing organizations. Submit fake documents and then call out the error.
Create concern over the security of the infrastructure. Create exposure stories. If the process is believed not to be secure they are done.
Cyber attacks against the infrastructure to get data on document submitters. This would kill the project. Since the servers are now in Sweden and France putting a team together to get access is more straightforward.
Media campaign to push the radial and reckless nature of WikiLeaks activities. Sustain pressure. Does nothing for the fanatics, but creates concern and doubt among moderates.
Search for leaks. Use social media to profile and identify risky behavior of employees.
They might stop one employee, but if we all do it they won't have enough manpower to keep going. It's disobedience, and it works when enough people say,"I won't be part of this anymore."
Oh come on! I got modded down for expressing the unpopular sentiment that we are actually having fun playing Wow, and are looking forward to this, but that blizz has some interesting marketing techniques?
Look, I know it's not popular, but for someone new this game is a blast. It may be grinding, but it has it's challenges with lots of numbers to optimize and decisions to make (we hate PvP, we like working with others instead so don't worry about this "geared up" nonsense very much). We LOVE seeing the beautiful new venues, collecting outfits, and interacting together in this world blizzard created.
As far as a legitimate idea instead of gushing/ranting, here's one: I hope WoW gets more popularity because I told my girlfriend about Titan, that it's a sci-fi MMO, and she looked right at me and said,"Nope, not interested." I've gotten that feeling elsewhere, so I hope future additions breathe a little life into a franchise that will always have detractors and adherents.
I don't CARE if MOST of the troops leave...
What seems important to me and I hope many people is what is it COSTING us now and after some more troops leave? if one guy is still there, but 10 military bases are being powered and run, and supplies are still flowing in, it's wasting an already bloated budget.
-bow- My girlfriend and I just started playing WoW about 2 months ago. We've had a lot of fun, honestly. We're both working full time AND studying for professional certifications, so we don't really have time to go out. Staying in and playing WoW has kept us tied to our desks in order to get everything done, and allowed us to socialize together, with others, and have fun with the small amount of free time we do have (and stay up too late with gin & tonics occasionally). I can't speak for those who've played for a long time, but I love the way WoW has is set up now with the current expansion. The new enhancements sound like a delight, too. We're really excited! Some may say it's just renting a game every month, but compared to what we used to spend on going out to eat and socializing? Warcraft is a saving us quite a bit of money. Only thing is.... 12 months of WoW for diablo 3 free, when D3 basically sounds like a "rope'em in and then charge them" deal.. I don't know. A neat move on Blizz's part, though. Get new WoW members and Diablo 3 adherents... pretty slick marketing move.
girls! girls! you're BOTH beautiful, and there's a reception after the pageant where there'll be cocktails... Really, this was shaping up to be an interesting and informative altercation until the ad hominem. I understand you both have very strong views, but for the benefit of the rest of us, would either of you be so kind as to elaborate on some of this? It sounds fascinating.
Ok, my girlfriend and I started playing WoW about 2 months ago. SHE was the one that came to ME after we both poo-poo'd the purchased mounts. They're usable by all characters in one realm for that person, and the thing goes faster as you get better mounts. Basically, it's not just vanity, it actually helps lots of your characters get around. The way we see it, they're offering some value for what we might pay. Drinking the kool-aid? A little, I'm sure.
Lovely, so you went there on a Sunday, when protesting doesn't do any good anyway because everyone is relaxing and away from work, and you come back here to tell us the protest is small? That's some great journalism there, Lou.
except wasn't the tea party STARTED by a republican think-tank?
Aha! THIS is the problem (sorry, not trying to be too harsh...) I see with IT/analytics and starting a union too. They all want to have specifically defined goals to accomplish. The problem is exactly what Big Media sees too: There ISN'T one big problem anymore. There are SO MANY PROBLEMS at this point that the system is faltering madly.
We need such a large group of people to get behind this that NO ONE can come up with one idea that everyone will agree on, the modern era of information is too individualized. We need to give some of this up for now. What we need now is CONSENSUS. We must band together and be a GROUP, A BIG GROUP, who cares about bettering the country, NOT having just one issue, but a group of issues. THAT'S HOW POLITICAL GROUPS FORM (sorry for caps), they have a wide agenda and get people behind it. If it were just one issue (this BS about civil rights versus the mending of an entire financial system is crazy, they're just not the same it would be easier, but it's just not.
As a financial Advisor, I see this excuse from people all the time: We can't save, we're too strapped! Frankly, it's a bad excuse. I've seen people do this for 10-15 years, not saving, but then they call us up and say how they redid the basement, the landscaping, bought a new car for junior blah blah blah. Just start funding it, and don't stop. Financial habits are likely to fall in around that. Also, if something isn't a priority, it won't get done. This issue is about national priorities (sports profits oil war facebook SUV gluten-free liberal arts degree anti-intelligence cockamamie). Give some funding to NASA for advertising, you might be amazed how many more of the people with the above priorities begin to change their minds, but just like NASA projects the time horizon is a long one.
Except that police organizations and government entities have shown a troubling propensity for violating the rights we are SUPPOSED to have in public. Cameras will allow them even more ability to infringe on the rights of the average citizen (even if that citizen isn't using them... yet). It's not about JUST expectation of privacy, I'll give you that side of it, it's the fight for stopping them from hemming in on other rights, like the right to assemble peacefully.
Posting a "me too" comment amongst so many who seem to think otherwise. I used to get ~31-33 mpg with my 2009 Elantra, half city half highway driving. Pop it in neutral to roll to red lights/have some momentum when the light turns green, and now I average 35-36 over the life of each tank of gas. It really seems to help, that and putting it in neutral at each light.
...to say that I, for one, welcome our new electric-powered gambling overlords. That's some good publicity they've both got there. I'm sure this will help push preorders along for Tesla.