How about scalable interfaces, hm? Fonts are easily scaled, SVG graphics as well. But that doesn't fix some of the ridiculously stupid UI designs, like wasting hundreds of pixels of vertical space for title bars, menu bars, icon bars, tab bars, status bars, panels, etc on a screen that is already often much wider than higher.
Sorry, I was using the `code' formatting (instead of my usual `extrans') for a previous post, and I'm using the same font as my standard and monospaced (Terminus) so I didn't see that I forgot to change `code' back to `extrans'. I really don't like html. which is kind of ironic, because I work as a web developer:)
> Why didn't you just mount it from within the file manager?
That machine wasn't running Ubuntu, and even on Ubuntu (esp. 8.10, on my sister's computer) mounting anything seems to break at random. I guess I'm only starting to feel the pain of maintaining many different systems (at home it's Debian, Vista and Ubuntu). And our main web server at work is running Gentoo, with custom kernel patches. Great, can't wait 'til the boss asks me to fix something:) (I'm the unofficial Linux guy there.)
> Nevermind making the CLI more intuitive - get the hardcore geeks > out of the CLI and into the GUI, make *it* work better.
True, true. To my own surprise, I've been starting to use CLI less and less for quite a while. When the GUI works, it's often more attractive, simply because clicking, dragging and dropping is much faster than "ls/dev/sd*; mount/dev/sdc1/media/usb; cp MyStuff/*/media/usb/; umount/media/usb; sync", and doesn't scare off chicks:D
But for many of us, the CLI has to stay, because sometimes that's how we earn for our daily bread. And if I don't like a particular thing about my environment, I fix it -- so I often analyze how do I work, try to spot where the most "CPU-intensive" (I mean, my brain-CPU) areas are, and optimize them. Now I could try to live without my collection of bash aliases, but why should life be painful?:)
> If you want a windows environment, go use windows.
Sorry, I've purged Vista off my work laptop and installed Debian only because I was more comfy with an Unix-like development environment. But Unix has flaws, and I've written a metric ton of small scripts to make it more harry-friendly. I see some of my ideas useful to the general public, so I share them -- tell me, why doesn't/bin/rm have an option so that it moves files to trash instead of removing them? I've found some XDG-compliant commandline trash implementation on the web, did an "alias rm='trash'" and lived happily ever since. I've used the ability to restore a file from trash maybe two or three times, but that's when it saved my ass. No real support for trash (LD_PRELOAD and libtrash DIDN'T work for me) is IMO one of the most outstanding "anti-features" of Unix, see the Unix Hater's Handbook.
> If you want a version of linux for kids
No, I want a version of Linux for/learners/. But you are learning throughout your whole lifetime, right? Do you know why do I love IPython, the interactive Python console? Because of the help system. You can type "SomeClass.SomeMethod??" and read the full, syntax-highlighted source code of that method, piped through a pager if (and only if) it doesn't fit on the screen. Does it make IPython idiot-friendly?
> All these people who think they are experienced linux users, but demand a > GUI to achieve anything aren't learning anything except which button to click.
And the CLI users aren't learning anything except which command to type. Seriously, how the fuck does typing "ls -1|wc -l" magically teach you the behavior of the stat() syscall? Or should we flip bits on the hard disk using butterflies, because everything that is simpler than this is not 1337?
> They don't care what the button does, or what happens if it goes wrong.
I don't see your point here. Are you complaining about the stupidity of the users? CLI is not for them anyway, and will never be. I'm talking about making the life easier for a newbie that is willing to learn, and has a potential of becoming a power user. I still remember how I didn't knew what pipes were, then how I've learned that they're not here "just because they are", but someone had actually implemented them, then I've learned HOW, and recently - last year I've been writing my own "wow it boots!" Hello World operating system. One of the walls I've hit was being forced into making random changes to the linker script to make it place the executable code on the beginning of the OS image (.TEXT was on the beginning by default) -- because finding anything in the docs was like finding a needle in a haystack. But hey, it was OS dev, something that only crazy freaks do, not mounting a fucking NTFS partition, something that should Just Work(TM), even on cmdline, given that a stable version of ntfs3g has been released like 2 and half years ago. I really don't care about the NTFS mount options. And I really DO NOT WANT to care. Just like you don't need to know the behavior of stat() before you can type `ls' and see the results.
> If the button moves, they are fucked. CLI users can just go straight > to it every time.
BTW, if a different version of/bin/echo takes a different set of arguments then you're screwed even more badly. I'm 100% sure that some flavors of Unix have a version of echo that doesn't recognize the -e flag, and here goes portability of sh scripts. But it's not the point.
> So what do you want ? More intelligent computer users, or just the same dumb > people but now on linux ? I can't believe there are people in this thread > advocating installing software from the damn web browser ! Christ on a bike ! > This is what worries me.
Oh come on. What's the difference between a dumb user on Linux and a dumb user on Windows? The root of the problem is the dumb user. Unless you get rid of the dumb user, nothing would help any
It depends on what you want. If you want to stay in the niche, then don't complain about unsupported hardware or incompatibilities between wine/win32 or mono/.net. However, if you'd like to go to a shop and just pick the laptop that has exactly the specs you wanted (comfy keyboard, two gigs of ram, etc), and not the one that is known to work (for someone else; your model won't), then you're going to need support, and nobody's going to pay attention to a problem that affects 0.x% of their customers.
I, for one, welcome all the newbies using Ubuntu. They make the whole Linux thing more mainstream, and draw attention to it, and with that comes support. Where Ubuntu benefits (for example Dell would add support for some new BIOS of theirs to the Linux kernel), the whole Linux community would benefit as well. And I don't really see any reason to stay in the niche.
WTF? What about Synaptic or Adept? You can already point-click-install 25000 packages, including hundreds of games. There's just too much of the less relevant (from the user's POV) stuff, like libomg5, libomg6, libomg6-dev, libqwertylizer0, qwertylizer-data, qwertylizer-core, qwertylizer-bin, etc. Just create a view that'd display all that stuff as one, logical Qwertylizer program and you've got your app store.
And as far as I recall, in Ubuntu's Gnome menu applications->add/remove (or something like that), you've got pretty much what I've just described, only the selection of software isn't too broad when compared to what raw apt would offer.
If I'd see installers for windows games packaged as debs depending on specific (known-working) version of wine... I'd be in heaven (hello Soldat, hello Jedi Outcast, long time no see... Wait, not working again? DAMN!).
Your post was somewhat enlightening. What can we do, to make the learning curve of the CLI environment more smooth?
We'd need more verbose (versus concise or cryptic) error messages - tell the user not only that there was a mistake, but where was it, where to find more help, how to possibly fix it, etc.
So I've read that the `mount' command would allow me to access my windows drive. So I do a `sudo mount/dev/sda1/windows/', then try to enter that directory. What do I see when I type `cd/windows/'? "bash: cd:/windows/: Permission denied" -- WTF!? Where to start looking for help? Why am I not permitted to see my files? Why won't it tell me to mount it with this or that option to be user-readable? Seriously, last time I tried to access an NTFS partition I had to run mc as root.
So another day I see a CS student trying to obtain an IP address via DHCP on my network on one of my machines (running Ubuntu) that was previously configured to have a static address. I see him opening a terminal window and typing: "dhcp". Well, his lack of Linux knowledge aside, why the command_not_found handle couldn't tell him to use the command "dhclient"? Or better yet, to use that little NetworkManager icon on the taskbar?
Another thing -- the `find' command. I see it disabled (moved out of $PATH) on some systems with free shell accounts, because newbies constantly abuse it to search the whole / -- why not prompt the newbie whether `locate' wouldn't be better? (and explain the difference naturally.)
All of this is pretty easily doable. We'd just need to identify where these problems are, write proper instructions/explainations, hack the shell, and voila. And of course a nice environment variable that'd disable the newbie mode.
I think GP means that all movement is relative. Sure, you've got Earth revolving around the sun, sun around the center of the galaxy, center of the galaxy around something bigger, etc. But hey, does the whole universe have a (0,0,0) point which we can effectively measure? What if we're contained in a bigger universe, and our universe is moving exactly so that Earth is always at the (0,0,0)?
I guess I've gotta take some shrooms and check it out by myself.
I thought of a keyboard with modes. Can I take a normal keyboard, write a special driver for it, and use it like a chording keyboard? I suppose that it would be possible (except that normal keyboards tend to block if multiple letters are pressed at once). Then hack up a few modes for chorded typing in different languages (also possibly programming languages - for example hitting "io" at once would write "if () {" and put the cursor between the parens, then hitting it again would move it to the next line and increase indentation).
Apropos keyboards and typing generally. The typing speed is one thing, another is that I often make small mistakes when I type, so I often have to go back and edit a fragment. I also edit text (source code) a lot. I've found that a good text editor (I'm used to Emacs personally) makes much more difference than a different keyboard layout. I almost unconsciously hit C-a when I want to go to the beginning of the line, which often results in a surprise when using a Windows machine:P
import sys, string d=dict([(k,0) for k in string.lowercase]) for ch in sys.stdin.read():
if string.lower(ch) in string.lowercase:
d[string.lower(ch)] += 1 print sorted(d.items(), key=lambda x:x[1], reverse=True)
Usage: $./countletters.py <<EOF This is a sample sentence in English. I am typing this text to see which letters are used the most. I will repeat this for other languages I speak. EOF [('e', 18), ('t', 14), ('s', 13), ('i', 12), ('a', 8), ('h', 8), ('l', 6), ('n', 6), ('r', 5), ('g', 4), ('o', 4), ('p', 4), ('m', 3), ('c', 2), ('u', 2), ('w', 2), ('d', 1), ('f', 1), ('k', 1), ('y', 1), ('x', 1), ('b', 0), ('j', 0), ('q', 0), ('v', 0), ('z', 0)]
Do a `wget|html2txt|countletters.py' with a few pages from Wikipedias in various languages and you'll have the answer.
...and a paradox! By writing the words considered "profanity" down (in order to define them), you are breaking the law! By reading the law aloud, you are breaking the law! Holy crap, this is freakin' stupid!
> Freedom of speech is alive and well! Freedom/after/ speech now...
It's funny and ironical. I've seen this "joke" before.
I'm polish and this reminds me of all the jokes from the times of People's Repulic of Poland (luckily, I was born in 1988 and didn't witnessed the PRL). I've got a whole full real printed book of them, it was released in 1989. Funny to read, not funny to live in such place and time.
> a class so huge that the professor can't even know all his students
My maths professor can remember the faces and names (and who didn't know what) of *all* of her students, even sometimes after many years. This is amazing, "mr. [my last name], what's the definition of the rank of a matrix?", "mrs. [my friend's name], when are two complex numbers equal?", "mr. [someone], last year you didn't remember the squeeze theorem, please explain it to us", in a hall of 100+ people, and she has never mistaken anyone for someone else nor forgotten someone's name. She even has no trouble remembering who didn't attend a lecture on which day. Damn, who needs a freaking database?
They'd probably want to keep track of the statistics: who, when, how, how many, etc.
Oh, and ego. Don't forget the ego. "Downloading is bad". The day when Microsoft are going to admit that p2p has bright sides will be a cold day in hell.
Oh, come on. Want any real control? Go open source. Want a balance between staying in control and having an usable system? Stay with XP, because I'm sure it's going to get worse with every next release.
You are, for your own definition of anything. Beliefs are personal. You'd probably laugh if you'd know what do I believe in; but I don't give a fuck -- believing in what I believe actually makes things in my life more convenient -- my conscious and subconscious beliefs are working day and night to help me in accomplishing whatever task I need to accomplish.
If a belief in a god makes you a happier person, why not be happier? If a belief in your programming skill makes you a better programmer, why not be a better programmer? If a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden makes you appreciate the beauty of the garden, why not appreciate it?
Your mind is a powerful tool, just learn to "program" it effectively, and use whatever gives you the best results.
"Once inside, he sucked out their content, including the logins, passwords, and email addresses of everyone who bought and sold through the sites. And then he decimated them, wiping out the databases with the ease of an arsonist flicking a match."
I've tried VS 2005 Express on one of the computers at my uni, and I use Eclipse at work, and I'd have to say, both of them suck horribly, and the thing they suck the most at, is the seemingly simple task of aiding me in efficiently editing^W^W^W^W^W not getting in my way while editing source code.
Slashdot Mirror
How about scalable interfaces, hm? Fonts are easily scaled, SVG graphics as well. But that doesn't fix some of the ridiculously stupid UI designs, like wasting hundreds of pixels of vertical space for title bars, menu bars, icon bars, tab bars, status bars, panels, etc on a screen that is already often much wider than higher.
Sorry, I was using the `code' formatting (instead of my usual `extrans') for a previous post, and I'm using the same font as my standard and monospaced (Terminus) so I didn't see that I forgot to change `code' back to `extrans'. I really don't like html. which is kind of ironic, because I work as a web developer :)
> Why didn't you just mount it from within the file manager?
:) (I'm the unofficial Linux guy there.)
/dev/sd*; mount /dev/sdc1 /media/usb; cp MyStuff/* /media/usb/; umount /media/usb; sync", and doesn't scare off chicks :D
:)
That machine wasn't running Ubuntu, and even on Ubuntu (esp. 8.10, on my sister's computer) mounting anything seems to break at random. I guess I'm only starting to feel the pain of maintaining many different systems (at home it's Debian, Vista and Ubuntu). And our main web server at work is running Gentoo, with custom kernel patches. Great, can't wait 'til the boss asks me to fix something
> Nevermind making the CLI more intuitive - get the hardcore geeks
> out of the CLI and into the GUI, make *it* work better.
True, true. To my own surprise, I've been starting to use CLI less and less for quite a while. When the GUI works, it's often more attractive, simply because clicking, dragging and dropping is much faster than "ls
But for many of us, the CLI has to stay, because sometimes that's how we earn for our daily bread. And if I don't like a particular thing about my environment, I fix it -- so I often analyze how do I work, try to spot where the most "CPU-intensive" (I mean, my brain-CPU) areas are, and optimize them. Now I could try to live without my collection of bash aliases, but why should life be painful?
> If you want a windows environment, go use windows.
/bin/rm have an option so that it moves files to trash instead of removing them? I've found some XDG-compliant commandline trash implementation on the web, did an "alias rm='trash'" and lived happily ever since. I've used the ability to restore a file from trash maybe two or three times, but that's when it saved my ass. No real support for trash (LD_PRELOAD and libtrash DIDN'T work for me) is IMO one of the most outstanding "anti-features" of Unix, see the Unix Hater's Handbook.
/learners/. But you are learning throughout your whole lifetime, right? Do you know why do I love IPython, the interactive Python console? Because of the help system. You can type "SomeClass.SomeMethod??" and read the full, syntax-highlighted source code of that method, piped through a pager if (and only if) it doesn't fit on the screen. Does it make IPython idiot-friendly?
/bin/echo takes a different set of arguments then you're screwed even more badly. I'm 100% sure that some flavors of Unix have a version of echo that doesn't recognize the -e flag, and here goes portability of sh scripts. But it's not the point.
Sorry, I've purged Vista off my work laptop and installed Debian only because I was more comfy with an Unix-like development environment. But Unix has flaws, and I've written a metric ton of small scripts to make it more harry-friendly. I see some of my ideas useful to the general public, so I share them -- tell me, why doesn't
> If you want a version of linux for kids
No, I want a version of Linux for
> All these people who think they are experienced linux users, but demand a
> GUI to achieve anything aren't learning anything except which button to click.
And the CLI users aren't learning anything except which command to type. Seriously, how the fuck does typing "ls -1|wc -l" magically teach you the behavior of the stat() syscall? Or should we flip bits on the hard disk using butterflies, because everything that is simpler than this is not 1337?
> They don't care what the button does, or what happens if it goes wrong.
I don't see your point here. Are you complaining about the stupidity of the users? CLI is not for them anyway, and will never be. I'm talking about making the life easier for a newbie that is willing to learn, and has a potential of becoming a power user. I still remember how I didn't knew what pipes were, then how I've learned that they're not here "just because they are", but someone had actually implemented them, then I've learned HOW, and recently - last year I've been writing my own "wow it boots!" Hello World operating system. One of the walls I've hit was being forced into making random changes to the linker script to make it place the executable code on the beginning of the OS image (.TEXT was on the beginning by default) -- because finding anything in the docs was like finding a needle in a haystack. But hey, it was OS dev, something that only crazy freaks do, not mounting a fucking NTFS partition, something that should Just Work(TM), even on cmdline, given that a stable version of ntfs3g has been released like 2 and half years ago. I really don't care about the NTFS mount options. And I really DO NOT WANT to care. Just like you don't need to know the behavior of stat() before you can type `ls' and see the results.
> If the button moves, they are fucked. CLI users can just go straight
> to it every time.
BTW, if a different version of
> So what do you want ? More intelligent computer users, or just the same dumb
> people but now on linux ? I can't believe there are people in this thread
> advocating installing software from the damn web browser ! Christ on a bike !
> This is what worries me.
Oh come on. What's the difference between a dumb user on Linux and a dumb user on Windows? The root of the problem is the dumb user. Unless you get rid of the dumb user, nothing would help any
It depends on what you want. If you want to stay in the niche, then don't complain about unsupported hardware or incompatibilities between wine/win32 or mono/.net. However, if you'd like to go to a shop and just pick the laptop that has exactly the specs you wanted (comfy keyboard, two gigs of ram, etc), and not the one that is known to work (for someone else; your model won't), then you're going to need support, and nobody's going to pay attention to a problem that affects 0.x% of their customers.
I, for one, welcome all the newbies using Ubuntu. They make the whole Linux thing more mainstream, and draw attention to it, and with that comes support. Where Ubuntu benefits (for example Dell would add support for some new BIOS of theirs to the Linux kernel), the whole Linux community would benefit as well. And I don't really see any reason to stay in the niche.
WTF? What about Synaptic or Adept? You can already point-click-install 25000 packages, including hundreds of games. There's just too much of the less relevant (from the user's POV) stuff, like libomg5, libomg6, libomg6-dev, libqwertylizer0, qwertylizer-data, qwertylizer-core, qwertylizer-bin, etc. Just create a view that'd display all that stuff as one, logical Qwertylizer program and you've got your app store.
And as far as I recall, in Ubuntu's Gnome menu applications->add/remove (or something like that), you've got pretty much what I've just described, only the selection of software isn't too broad when compared to what raw apt would offer.
If I'd see installers for windows games packaged as debs depending on specific (known-working) version of wine... I'd be in heaven (hello Soldat, hello Jedi Outcast, long time no see... Wait, not working again? DAMN!).
Your post was somewhat enlightening. What can we do, to make the learning curve of the CLI environment more smooth?
/dev/sda1 /windows/', then try to enter that directory. What do I see when I type `cd /windows/'? "bash: cd: /windows/: Permission denied" -- WTF!? Where to start looking for help? Why am I not permitted to see my files? Why won't it tell me to mount it with this or that option to be user-readable? Seriously, last time I tried to access an NTFS partition I had to run mc as root.
We'd need more verbose (versus concise or cryptic) error messages - tell the user not only that there was a mistake, but where was it, where to find more help, how to possibly fix it, etc.
So I've read that the `mount' command would allow me to access my windows drive. So I do a `sudo mount
So another day I see a CS student trying to obtain an IP address via DHCP on my network on one of my machines (running Ubuntu) that was previously configured to have a static address. I see him opening a terminal window and typing: "dhcp". Well, his lack of Linux knowledge aside, why the command_not_found handle couldn't tell him to use the command "dhclient"? Or better yet, to use that little NetworkManager icon on the taskbar?
Another thing -- the `find' command. I see it disabled (moved out of $PATH) on some systems with free shell accounts, because newbies constantly abuse it to search the whole / -- why not prompt the newbie whether `locate' wouldn't be better? (and explain the difference naturally.)
All of this is pretty easily doable. We'd just need to identify where these problems are, write proper instructions/explainations, hack the shell, and voila. And of course a nice environment variable that'd disable the newbie mode.
I think GP means that all movement is relative. Sure, you've got Earth revolving around the sun, sun around the center of the galaxy, center of the galaxy around something bigger, etc. But hey, does the whole universe have a (0,0,0) point which we can effectively measure? What if we're contained in a bigger universe, and our universe is moving exactly so that Earth is always at the (0,0,0)?
I guess I've gotta take some shrooms and check it out by myself.
Thanks, but I prefer my programs to be readable and maintainable :)
I thought of a keyboard with modes. Can I take a normal keyboard, write a special driver for it, and use it like a chording keyboard? I suppose that it would be possible (except that normal keyboards tend to block if multiple letters are pressed at once). Then hack up a few modes for chorded typing in different languages (also possibly programming languages - for example hitting "io" at once would write "if () {" and put the cursor between the parens, then hitting it again would move it to the next line and increase indentation).
:P
Apropos keyboards and typing generally. The typing speed is one thing, another is that I often make small mistakes when I type, so I often have to go back and edit a fragment. I also edit text (source code) a lot. I've found that a good text editor (I'm used to Emacs personally) makes much more difference than a different keyboard layout. I almost unconsciously hit C-a when I want to go to the beginning of the line, which often results in a surprise when using a Windows machine
> still wonder by how much, in that case.
./countletters.py <<EOF
Use this Python script:
import sys, string
d=dict([(k,0) for k in string.lowercase])
for ch in sys.stdin.read():
if string.lower(ch) in string.lowercase:
d[string.lower(ch)] += 1
print sorted(d.items(), key=lambda x:x[1], reverse=True)
Usage:
$
This is a sample sentence in English.
I am typing this text to see which letters are used the most.
I will repeat this for other languages I speak.
EOF
[('e', 18), ('t', 14), ('s', 13), ('i', 12), ('a', 8), ('h', 8), ('l', 6), ('n', 6), ('r', 5), ('g', 4), ('o', 4), ('p', 4), ('m', 3), ('c', 2), ('u', 2), ('w', 2), ('d', 1), ('f', 1), ('k', 1), ('y', 1), ('x', 1), ('b', 0), ('j', 0), ('q', 0), ('v', 0), ('z', 0)]
Do a `wget|html2txt|countletters.py' with a few pages from Wikipedias in various languages and you'll have the answer.
Less evil is still evil.
sudo m-a a-i nvidia-kernel?
You can tick/untick that lil checkbox that says "participate in popcon".
/usr/sbin/popularity-contest" (it's a perl script), read the source, and see what it does.
You can "sudo dpkg -r popularity-contest".
You can "less
There are some huge differences.
Reminds me of this: http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/
...and a paradox! By writing the words considered "profanity" down (in order to define them), you are breaking the law! By reading the law aloud, you are breaking the law! Holy crap, this is freakin' stupid!
> Freedom of speech is alive and well! Freedom /after/ speech now...
It's funny and ironical. I've seen this "joke" before.
I'm polish and this reminds me of all the jokes from the times of People's Repulic of Poland (luckily, I was born in 1988 and didn't witnessed the PRL). I've got a whole full real printed book of them, it was released in 1989. Funny to read, not funny to live in such place and time.
> a class so huge that the professor can't even know all his students
My maths professor can remember the faces and names (and who didn't know what) of *all* of her students, even sometimes after many years. This is amazing, "mr. [my last name], what's the definition of the rank of a matrix?", "mrs. [my friend's name], when are two complex numbers equal?", "mr. [someone], last year you didn't remember the squeeze theorem, please explain it to us", in a hall of 100+ people, and she has never mistaken anyone for someone else nor forgotten someone's name. She even has no trouble remembering who didn't attend a lecture on which day. Damn, who needs a freaking database?
They'd probably want to keep track of the statistics: who, when, how, how many, etc.
Oh, and ego. Don't forget the ego. "Downloading is bad". The day when Microsoft are going to admit that p2p has bright sides will be a cold day in hell.
Oh, come on. Want any real control? Go open source. Want a balance between staying in control and having an usable system? Stay with XP, because I'm sure it's going to get worse with every next release.
No, it's awesome that is AWESOME!
http://awesome.naquadah.org/
How? They're not the same?
How about "neither of the two is correct"?
The main problem with "god exists" vs "god doesn't exist" is IMO with the definition of god. I've got my own; does it make the odds 33%/33%/33%?
> Now who's right?
You are, for your own definition of anything. Beliefs are personal. You'd probably laugh if you'd know what do I believe in; but I don't give a fuck -- believing in what I believe actually makes things in my life more convenient -- my conscious and subconscious beliefs are working day and night to help me in accomplishing whatever task I need to accomplish.
If a belief in a god makes you a happier person, why not be happier? If a belief in your programming skill makes you a better programmer, why not be a better programmer? If a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden makes you appreciate the beauty of the garden, why not appreciate it?
Your mind is a powerful tool, just learn to "program" it effectively, and use whatever gives you the best results.
"Once inside, he sucked out their content, including the logins, passwords, and email addresses of everyone who bought and sold through the sites. And then he decimated them, wiping out the databases with the ease of an arsonist flicking a match."
SELECT login, password, email FROM users;
DROP TABLE users;
-- EXCITING!
I've tried VS 2005 Express on one of the computers at my uni, and I use Eclipse at work, and I'd have to say, both of them suck horribly, and the thing they suck the most at, is the seemingly simple task of aiding me in efficiently editing^W^W^W^W^W not getting in my way while editing source code.
So far nothing beats Emacs (for me).