I'm just an engineer with a masters degree, so I know I'm outclassed in this discussion, but I'd sure like to get an explanation of why so many open source software offerings like "Octive" can't describe the software on their home page. The description given is pathetic. Sure it works if my friend is using it and I can watch them use it for 2 or 3 days, but not if I come in cold. To say that it's like MATLAB is no help to someone who hasn't used MATLAB. Besides which the whole idea behind MATLAB/Simulink is that it's graphical. So how the H_LL does Octive work, what does it do and what does it look like? Can you give me a picture of the interface? Is it just a command line and I have to take it from there?
Earlier posts indicated that no-one knows about Octive. Well of course they don't because in order to know anything you have to completely commit and download the software and hope it works on your OS (since there is no listing of requirements) etc. Why make the user jump from a) Now I know the name to b)Download the software and try it even though I don't know what it does.
I've read lots of comments about grid concerns. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned was V2G technology. This is Vehicle to Grid. Suppose that 100,000 people have electric cars in a city. And 1% don't use their car on any given day. Each car has about 30kWh of battery energy. That's 30 MegaWatt Hours of energy that is available to go back into the grid.
There are two ways for the power companies to use this. One is load leveling across the peak times 10am-2pm. So the vehicles can be plugged into the grid and the power company can suck the energy out of the battery and put it back into use during the high demand time. This saves significantly on new plant production and allows us to reduce our investments.
The second way to load level is minute by minute. Currently power companies must generate "extra" electricity at all times just incase there is a power spike. They need to be able to provide energy to any spike. Thus, they have to produce extra at all times. If we use these same batteries to cover the spikes, we can match them exactly with power from batteries and we don't have to run high all the time. This will actually save about 10% of all the power consumed.
With these two opportunities along with the fact that we would be using the powerplants at night and be able to improve our utilization by about 40%, we could actually see a reduction in the price of electricity.
Full disclosure, in 2007 I started an electric vehicle conversion company named "Plug-In Motors". You can find our information at www.pluginmotors.com
Kurt
For full disclosure, I'm currently trying to start a business to convert vehicles from Gasoline to Electricity. (Plug-In Motors Inc. www.pluginmotors.com) Our first vehicle is a Mustang Conversion. We are setting up our base vehicle to run 85 miles @ 55mph on a charge but are capable of setting up the vehicle to run 250 miles @55 mph per charge.
It's surprising to me that this would be such a big deal. When you consider the number of laptops that have batteries in them and no one is asking any similar questions. And if you consider the extended concerns with gasoline and gasoline engines, it's pretty obvious that an electric vehicle is much easier on the environment. First, AC Induction electric motors usually last about 10 times gasoline engines. So we could have 10 times fewer "engines" in the world even with the same number of cars. They are much smaller (about 10 times smaller when designed correctly for an electric vehicle) and much easier to make. If anyone has seen a gasoline engine plant you would understand how environmentally unfriendly that whole discussion is. Add to that the opportunity to eliminate the transmission, or at least much of it's internals, and just with these two components one is able to make up for any increase in land fill for the batteries.
Additionally, there are many options for the batteries even after the vehicle is finished with them. At Plug-In Motors, we expect that customers will use the batteries in our vehicles until they reach about 80% of their original capacity. Thus, if our original set up goes 85miles, at the end of their life cycle (expected to be between 2000 and 2500 cycles) the vehicle would still travel 68 miles at 55mph before needing another charge. If we are correct, then these batteries, while probably not adequate for the vehicle any longer could very easily be used for other needs. Specifically for power plants to charge at night so that they can load level between the night and day, or for second by second changes to peak demand. The value here is extra-ordinary as it could easily reduce our need for new powerplants by 30-40%. This isn't done today because of the cost of batteries is too high, but if the pack has already been used for 200,000 miles in a vehicle, being able to then sell them to the power plant can help pay for the next pack. Alternatively, if you live in a region where the power company charges more for electricity during the day than at night you can charge them at night and sell back during the day. Or, hook it up to your own solar cell and be "off the grid". Really there are lots of options before going to recycling.
As for the original question, It's my understanding that Ni-Cd (Nickel Cadnium) and Lead Acid batteries are very tough to recycle and are a real issue for the landfills. However, recycling is possible with both. Nickel Metal Hydride is somewhat easier and Li-Ion batteries are the easiest. Li-Ion batteries have no environmental downside like the Lead Acids or the Ni-Cd's which leach lead into the environment.
For full disclosure, I'm currently trying to start a business to convert vehicles from Gasoline to Electricity. (Plug-In Motors Inc. www.pluginmotors.com) Our first vehicle is a Mustang Conversion. We are setting up our base vehicle to run 85 miles @ 55mph on a charge but are capable of setting up the vehicle to run 250 miles @55 mph per charge.
It's surprising to me that this would be such a big deal. When you consider the number of laptops that have batteries in them and no one is asking any similar questions. And if you consider the extended concerns with gasoline and gasoline engines, it's pretty obvious that an electric vehicle is much easier on the environment.
First, AC Induction electric motors usually last about 10 times gasoline engines. So we could have 10 times fewer "engines" in the world even with the same number of cars. They are much smaller (about 10 times smaller when designed correctly for an electric vehicle) and much easier to make. If anyone has seen a gasoline engine plant you would understand how environmentally unfriendly that whole discussion is. Add to that the opportunity to eliminate the transmission, or at least much of it's internals, and just with these two components one is able to make up for any increase in land fill for the batteries.
Additionally, there are many options for the batteries even after the vehicle is finished with them. At Plug-In Motors, we expect that customers will use the batteries in our vehicles until they reach about 80% of their original capacity. Thus, if our original set up goes 85miles, at the end of their life cycle (expected to be between 2000 and 2500 cycles) the vehicle would still travel 68 miles at 55mph before needing another charge. If we are correct, then these batteries, while probably not adequate for the vehicle any longer could very easily be used for other needs. Specifically for power plants to charge at night so that they can load level between the night and day, or for second by second changes to peak demand. The value here is extra-ordinary as it could easily reduce our need for new powerplants by 30-40%. This isn't done today because of the cost of batteries is too high, but if the pack has already been used for 200,000 miles in a vehicle, being able to then sell them to the power plant can help pay for the next pack. Alternatively, if you live in a region where the power company charges more for electricity during the day than at night you can charge them at night and sell back during the day. Or, hook it up to your own solar cell and be "off the grid". Really there are lots of options before going to recycling.
As for the original question,
It's my understanding that Ni-Cd (Nickel Cadnium) and Lead Acid batteries are very tough to recycle and are a real issue for the landfills. However, recycling is possible with both. Nickel Metal Hydride is somewhat easier and Li-Ion batteries are the easiest. Li-Ion batteries have no environmental downside like the Lead Acids or the Ni-Cd's which leach lead into the environment.
I'm replying to a note because I'm too stupid to be able to find the button that says "post a new note".
Having that behind me, lets talk about women in science. I worked for one of the big 3(it starts with an F) for 17 yrs. I was discriminated against for being a white male twice over the 17 yrs minorities (one woman and one black male) was promoted ahead of me who were either less, or much less qualified. While I still was able to work my way to a manager level, it was very discuraging to see this type of thing happen.
On a personal level, it was very easy to get angry. This was bad for the company and the industry and thus the country, but a bigger issue was that the individuals that were promoted could not handle the job, and thus it made the company less competitive. Doing this once or twice is no big deal, but when it's done 100 or 200 times over all levels of management, it becomes very significant. It's not that a person is a woman or black or some other minority that causes the problem. The problem is that they are not the BEST QUALIFIED person for the job. Everyone makes key decisions, in a vehicle it only takes one or two poor decisions to affect you in the market place.
While this issue was not what brought down the company I worked for (soon to be bankrupt), it did contribute significantly to their demise.
Also, I want to say that I agree completely with earlier comments that indicated the biggest issue is number of candidates available. When 90% of the workforce is white male, than 90% of the management should probably be white male. That's assuming men and women have the same aptitude for the task at hand.
I don't think this is too little too late. If we continue to let the "slippery slope" erode, it will. We need to show all future presidents that this type of act will not be tolerated. We need to raise the bar back to the level the constitution has set up.
Also, it's very interesting to me that one big issue for me wasn't mentioned in the articles of impeachment. This is the fact that Mr. Bush paid reporters to write positive stories on "No Child Left Behind". The price this ONE reporter was paid is $276,000 of your tax dollars. Now this is the only one we know about, but if you think this wasn't repeated multiple times with multiple issues I would suggest you're mistaken.
THE GREAT NEWS! In USA TODAY 82% of respondents supported impeaching Bush!!!!!
IT'S TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
I would just like to say I thought it was a very good, well thought out post. You're correct. It's not about free market, it's about making sure companies continue to see the rewards when they take risks.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm just an engineer with a masters degree, so I know I'm outclassed in this discussion, but I'd sure like to get an explanation of why so many open source software offerings like "Octive" can't describe the software on their home page. The description given is pathetic. Sure it works if my friend is using it and I can watch them use it for 2 or 3 days, but not if I come in cold. To say that it's like MATLAB is no help to someone who hasn't used MATLAB. Besides which the whole idea behind MATLAB/Simulink is that it's graphical. So how the H_LL does Octive work, what does it do and what does it look like? Can you give me a picture of the interface? Is it just a command line and I have to take it from there? Earlier posts indicated that no-one knows about Octive. Well of course they don't because in order to know anything you have to completely commit and download the software and hope it works on your OS (since there is no listing of requirements) etc. Why make the user jump from a) Now I know the name to b)Download the software and try it even though I don't know what it does.
I've read lots of comments about grid concerns. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned was V2G technology. This is Vehicle to Grid. Suppose that 100,000 people have electric cars in a city. And 1% don't use their car on any given day. Each car has about 30kWh of battery energy. That's 30 MegaWatt Hours of energy that is available to go back into the grid. There are two ways for the power companies to use this. One is load leveling across the peak times 10am-2pm. So the vehicles can be plugged into the grid and the power company can suck the energy out of the battery and put it back into use during the high demand time. This saves significantly on new plant production and allows us to reduce our investments. The second way to load level is minute by minute. Currently power companies must generate "extra" electricity at all times just incase there is a power spike. They need to be able to provide energy to any spike. Thus, they have to produce extra at all times. If we use these same batteries to cover the spikes, we can match them exactly with power from batteries and we don't have to run high all the time. This will actually save about 10% of all the power consumed. With these two opportunities along with the fact that we would be using the powerplants at night and be able to improve our utilization by about 40%, we could actually see a reduction in the price of electricity. Full disclosure, in 2007 I started an electric vehicle conversion company named "Plug-In Motors". You can find our information at www.pluginmotors.com Kurt
For full disclosure, I'm currently trying to start a business to convert vehicles from Gasoline to Electricity. (Plug-In Motors Inc. www.pluginmotors.com) Our first vehicle is a Mustang Conversion. We are setting up our base vehicle to run 85 miles @ 55mph on a charge but are capable of setting up the vehicle to run 250 miles @55 mph per charge.
It's surprising to me that this would be such a big deal. When you consider the number of laptops that have batteries in them and no one is asking any similar questions. And if you consider the extended concerns with gasoline and gasoline engines, it's pretty obvious that an electric vehicle is much easier on the environment. First, AC Induction electric motors usually last about 10 times gasoline engines. So we could have 10 times fewer "engines" in the world even with the same number of cars. They are much smaller (about 10 times smaller when designed correctly for an electric vehicle) and much easier to make. If anyone has seen a gasoline engine plant you would understand how environmentally unfriendly that whole discussion is. Add to that the opportunity to eliminate the transmission, or at least much of it's internals, and just with these two components one is able to make up for any increase in land fill for the batteries.
Additionally, there are many options for the batteries even after the vehicle is finished with them. At Plug-In Motors, we expect that customers will use the batteries in our vehicles until they reach about 80% of their original capacity. Thus, if our original set up goes 85miles, at the end of their life cycle (expected to be between 2000 and 2500 cycles) the vehicle would still travel 68 miles at 55mph before needing another charge. If we are correct, then these batteries, while probably not adequate for the vehicle any longer could very easily be used for other needs. Specifically for power plants to charge at night so that they can load level between the night and day, or for second by second changes to peak demand. The value here is extra-ordinary as it could easily reduce our need for new powerplants by 30-40%. This isn't done today because of the cost of batteries is too high, but if the pack has already been used for 200,000 miles in a vehicle, being able to then sell them to the power plant can help pay for the next pack. Alternatively, if you live in a region where the power company charges more for electricity during the day than at night you can charge them at night and sell back during the day. Or, hook it up to your own solar cell and be "off the grid". Really there are lots of options before going to recycling.
As for the original question, It's my understanding that Ni-Cd (Nickel Cadnium) and Lead Acid batteries are very tough to recycle and are a real issue for the landfills. However, recycling is possible with both. Nickel Metal Hydride is somewhat easier and Li-Ion batteries are the easiest. Li-Ion batteries have no environmental downside like the Lead Acids or the Ni-Cd's which leach lead into the environment.
For full disclosure, I'm currently trying to start a business to convert vehicles from Gasoline to Electricity. (Plug-In Motors Inc. www.pluginmotors.com) Our first vehicle is a Mustang Conversion. We are setting up our base vehicle to run 85 miles @ 55mph on a charge but are capable of setting up the vehicle to run 250 miles @55 mph per charge. It's surprising to me that this would be such a big deal. When you consider the number of laptops that have batteries in them and no one is asking any similar questions. And if you consider the extended concerns with gasoline and gasoline engines, it's pretty obvious that an electric vehicle is much easier on the environment. First, AC Induction electric motors usually last about 10 times gasoline engines. So we could have 10 times fewer "engines" in the world even with the same number of cars. They are much smaller (about 10 times smaller when designed correctly for an electric vehicle) and much easier to make. If anyone has seen a gasoline engine plant you would understand how environmentally unfriendly that whole discussion is. Add to that the opportunity to eliminate the transmission, or at least much of it's internals, and just with these two components one is able to make up for any increase in land fill for the batteries. Additionally, there are many options for the batteries even after the vehicle is finished with them. At Plug-In Motors, we expect that customers will use the batteries in our vehicles until they reach about 80% of their original capacity. Thus, if our original set up goes 85miles, at the end of their life cycle (expected to be between 2000 and 2500 cycles) the vehicle would still travel 68 miles at 55mph before needing another charge. If we are correct, then these batteries, while probably not adequate for the vehicle any longer could very easily be used for other needs. Specifically for power plants to charge at night so that they can load level between the night and day, or for second by second changes to peak demand. The value here is extra-ordinary as it could easily reduce our need for new powerplants by 30-40%. This isn't done today because of the cost of batteries is too high, but if the pack has already been used for 200,000 miles in a vehicle, being able to then sell them to the power plant can help pay for the next pack. Alternatively, if you live in a region where the power company charges more for electricity during the day than at night you can charge them at night and sell back during the day. Or, hook it up to your own solar cell and be "off the grid". Really there are lots of options before going to recycling. As for the original question, It's my understanding that Ni-Cd (Nickel Cadnium) and Lead Acid batteries are very tough to recycle and are a real issue for the landfills. However, recycling is possible with both. Nickel Metal Hydride is somewhat easier and Li-Ion batteries are the easiest. Li-Ion batteries have no environmental downside like the Lead Acids or the Ni-Cd's which leach lead into the environment.
I'm replying to a note because I'm too stupid to be able to find the button that says "post a new note". Having that behind me, lets talk about women in science. I worked for one of the big 3(it starts with an F) for 17 yrs. I was discriminated against for being a white male twice over the 17 yrs minorities (one woman and one black male) was promoted ahead of me who were either less, or much less qualified. While I still was able to work my way to a manager level, it was very discuraging to see this type of thing happen. On a personal level, it was very easy to get angry. This was bad for the company and the industry and thus the country, but a bigger issue was that the individuals that were promoted could not handle the job, and thus it made the company less competitive. Doing this once or twice is no big deal, but when it's done 100 or 200 times over all levels of management, it becomes very significant. It's not that a person is a woman or black or some other minority that causes the problem. The problem is that they are not the BEST QUALIFIED person for the job. Everyone makes key decisions, in a vehicle it only takes one or two poor decisions to affect you in the market place. While this issue was not what brought down the company I worked for (soon to be bankrupt), it did contribute significantly to their demise. Also, I want to say that I agree completely with earlier comments that indicated the biggest issue is number of candidates available. When 90% of the workforce is white male, than 90% of the management should probably be white male. That's assuming men and women have the same aptitude for the task at hand.
I don't think this is too little too late. If we continue to let the "slippery slope" erode, it will. We need to show all future presidents that this type of act will not be tolerated. We need to raise the bar back to the level the constitution has set up. Also, it's very interesting to me that one big issue for me wasn't mentioned in the articles of impeachment. This is the fact that Mr. Bush paid reporters to write positive stories on "No Child Left Behind". The price this ONE reporter was paid is $276,000 of your tax dollars. Now this is the only one we know about, but if you think this wasn't repeated multiple times with multiple issues I would suggest you're mistaken. THE GREAT NEWS! In USA TODAY 82% of respondents supported impeaching Bush!!!!! IT'S TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
I would just like to say I thought it was a very good, well thought out post. You're correct. It's not about free market, it's about making sure companies continue to see the rewards when they take risks.