For most Unices, x86 is alien to them. AMD's X8664 is another one.
How about be run by people who do not want, or can not afford, to pay thousands of dollars for the license, and many more thousands of dollars for the hardware to run it?
How about run a web server capable of very high hit rates for under a thousand bucks>
How about supercomputing? How many unices are in the top 100 supercomputers? (seriously, anyone know?)
How about rendering movies so inexpensively (server AND destop used there)?
Hell, how about get media press!?! When is the last time HPUX got non-trade press coverage?
Neil Cavuto on FNC today was talking about Linux. Favorably.
Here is another one, you can go down to Borders or Barnes&Noble, or go online to Amazon and buy a book on Linux, and use it to set up a server *and* learn about the whole thing. All for the paltry cost of maybe 50 bucks plus a few hundred for hardware, assuming you don't have some laying around.
Essential? Depends on what you consider essential. Lower IT costs are considered essential by Amazon, Merril Lynch, Google, and many many others. Clearly they consider Linux's capabilities essential.
Go ahead, try to build a Google on an expensive proprietary Unix OS and Hardware w/o losing your shirt financially speaking. Then tell me it can't do things that traditional Unices can't do.
Oh, and here is one last one: The traditional, proprietary Unices were unable to move anywhere near the desktop, bridging the gap between server and workstation/desktop. Linux is.
Clearly you did not read the other end of the link.
You don't collect money, Speakeasy does. You only TS your connection, email problems, etc. are Speakeasy's bag. Your tech support consosts of the circuit issues on your end. In fact, they sign up with Speakeasy, and you get part of the monthlies from it. So the customers call Speakeasy first.
""" What support will Speakeasy provide ? What support will I need to provide ?
Speakeasy provides support for the following NetShare Customer issues:
* Billing and invoice questions (not related to pricing)
* Technical questions or issues regarding email, and dialup.
As the Admin, it is your responsibility to provide support for:
* Customer support: for initial setup, signup and troubleshooting. Speakeasy will work with you to resolve issues related to circuit connectivity, and will forward any technical issue communicated by a NetShare Customer to you. You can then work with the Customer to resolve the issue in a diligent fashion.
* You are also responsible for the security and integrity of their shared network. Speakeasy may recommend, but is not responsible for enforcing specific network security measures.
"""
As far as saving a few bucks, so far nothing says you can't be credited more than your monthly fees. Maybe someone on the inside can fill that vagueness in for us?
Still, they even say in their FAQ it isn't for everyone.
Those are *UI* improvements, not *browser* *innovations*.
I love tabs, quite abit actually. But that is not a *browser* innovation. My terminal window has it. Would you say the command line "innovated" because of tabbed windows? I bet you wouldn't.
Popup blocking? That's just a response to popups. One "innovation" to stop another "innovation"? Please. CSS? not a browser innovation, a standard! My word processing has stylesheets, XML has them, etc.. An improvement is not an innovation, just as not all innovations are improvements. Especially when alleged "innovations" come from other apps.
For crying out loud XChat has had tabbing for a long time. Graphical forms have had them for years as well. This goes for gestures as well. Games have had them for quite some time. Thus, not innovation but merely a UI feature offered elsewhere.
It is true there is very little innovation going on in the browser these days, But mostly because everyone got worried about "backward compatibility" and the fact that browsing was overhyped anyway.
After all, we are talking about wandering or searching a resource for information. How many innovations have there been in *walking* for example?
IMO, much of the lack of innovation has to do with poor shortsighted choices not a part of "browsing".
For example, the effectively flat namespace that is DNS according to Internic. A heirarchical namespace would bring us a vastly different world.
HTML is limited, the flat namespace is limiting. With these two firmly entrenched now, the next true innovation will come from elsewhere.
When the famed dream of bi-directional hyperlinks comes to fruition (if ever), we'll see innovation. When the web is more than just a uni-directional reference, and is more self-organizing, we'll see innovation. When the flat-namespace is busted out, and we move beyond HTML (or flash/shockwave -- after all those arent innovations in *browsing* they are different ways of showing you a pretty cartoon or movie clip), we'll see innovation.
Until then, we are stuck with the sea of flotsam, jetsam, and Innovation Stagnation(tm) that is the current state of the web and browsing it.
Trade Secrets *do* often have a time limit. It depend sont he contract. Many contracts, as well as case law, state that if others figure it out on their own, or after a reasonable amount of time, tough luck your protection is gone.
However, RH9 comes with a significant amount of desktop SW out of the box. From OpenOffice.org to a nautilus window that pops up when you insert a blank CD into a burner --and provides the means to burn a new disc from there. From spreadsheets to GIMP, Python to Perl, GNOME to KDE.
From Evolution to Mozilla, and a large quantity of games and screensavers, spreading across 3 CD-ROMs, and a full install of ~5 GB.
While I can not talk about whomever you were responding to, I can vouch for the effect he or she talked about.
When I got invovled in the industry (tech), I looked quite young (I looked 16-17 when I was in my mid twenties). I dressed very professionally, and was clean cut. Something you'd expect from someone raised around the military, and who had served as a U.S Army Cavalry Scout for several years. Yet I was discriminated against when met in person due to my *apparent* age.
My response? I grew a beard and long hair. The result, the disrepect I was given went away. While it is strue that dress and attitude are important, it is folly to overlook the bias against peope due to their age.
The particular bias I met was not that I didn't know what I was doing, but that I couldn't be trusted since I had not had years to "mature". Never mind the fact that I had various security clearances and posessed at one time the authority to call for tactical nuclear weapons on a battlefield. Nope, it was a perception that young==immature or that young==untrustworthy.
As a further driving point on this; when they found out how old I really was, they did an about face. One even questioned my age when he met me. Even today, I get more respect when they do not see me, since I still look young (though now I at lest look old enough to vote and/or drink).
No, bash on Windows is not nearly as powerful as bash on Unix.
Simply having a good shell does not give you the chaining of hundreds of specific utilities, the ability to control the system, etc..
It is not so much the shell that gives Unix it's power at the CLI, but the philosophy behind the development of the system.
The idea that I can take the output of one command, send it to another that then does something, and send that to another, and so on and so forth is the power.
Have a tool that does one (or two) thing(s), does it well, and make it play with others, using simple, easy, open plain text. Bash does not provide this, merely the environment to do it.
I *have* bash on Windows2k, and it is *not* as powerful. In bash on Linux I can programmatically change my webserver (apache) config using a series of CLI tools, and restart it. Windows (IIS) lacks that feature, even if you put bash on it. Further, through the addition of one or more CLI tools, I can do that across thousands of machines. Bash on Windows does not provide that.
So no, bash on Windows does not graft the power into that OS.
Actually the difference in usage for 99% of what people use MS Office for in the areas of Documents, spreadsheets, presentations, etc. are so near identical to Openoffice/Staroffice, that the costs per user can easily be less than the cost of the license for MS office.
In fact, for small businesses, a simple book will do the trick, as will just loading it and using it.
And BTW, MS *has* gone with Nasty License Scheme 6.0.
1: Red Hat probably makes more money selling support than they do selling boxed distros, so distros can make money and still be GPL.
Note, that in this scenario, they would be making money from selling support contracts, not support. The trick to that business is to sell the contract, where people can turn to you for support, but then sell a product that doesn't need high levels of maintenance. In other words, keep your cost down.
Thus, if RH is making money by the support model, they are doing it because people want the "feel good" nature of the contract, combined with the much lower cost of providing said feel good level.
This means that Linux (or at least RH to RH) provides a lower cost of ownership. Of course, we've already seen that.
Yeah, because we know making things illegal gets rid of them. Like rape, murder, theft. Good thing we outlawed those so now those do not happen anymore.
Oh wait, making something against the law doesn't remove the behaviour. That's why there are violations of the law at any given minute.
Most people fail to realize why Spam is so prevalent.
News flash: it works.
Sorry to say this folks, but the cost of spam is miniscule, if anything, to the spammer. If they spend nohting to get a sale, they will.
The *only* thing that is preventing big name corporations such as HP, IBM, Sears, etc. from doing it is the negative publicity associated with it. Otherwise, you bet your motherboard they would be doing it!
If the cost of Spam were borne by the sender, it would go down. Sorry but prosecution doesn't work so well. The cost of investigation to do the prosecution is just too high.
Fighting spam is like fighting the universe on the idiot war.
Personally, I'd rather my default settings about applications STAY across desktops. After all, I select galeon for my default *because*I*want*it*to*be*default. That shouldn't change because I used a different DE for a bit, for crying out loud.
Especially true for people who store login information, or certificates in their browser. I use galeon and Opera for various things, and it is much easier to have a default browser be sticky, so I can manage only one set of credentials.
"I already put in my login/certificate info?? Why is it not remembering it?!"
If you people don't get your act together and quit being zealots about things then Linux will forever remain a non-major player in userland.
So what? I care more about the server/developer world than the so-called "desktop world". And guess where linux is kicking ass. Yup, serverland.
When will you people learn that not all of us care that much about the alleged "desktop"? Even MS has realized the future is in servers, not "desktops".
Another point: Why should a principle be paid three or more itmes as much as the best teacher? Why is the non-teacher count often much higher than the teacher count?
Why is it that these "teacher" organizations always say they'll have to cut teachers? Simple; they aren't teachers, so they sure as hell aren't cutting the administrator levels. Cutting teachers sounds much more emotional to the unwashed masses.
OK, are you going to at least try to read what he volunteered for? He said "...or anything they need", which could include that (especially since Linux provides such nice remote admin features), or he could help them perform the audit, oh wait he said that to.
Glad to see you are reading the whole post, there coward.
Besides, if a teacher (or official sysadmin, you do know what those are, right?) can not learn something so simple in six months, they should find a better job.
You clearly haven't seen the myriad of ways of "cluster" installation.
It could be done in half the time. Even less, depending on the hardware. If one can install hundreds in a few hours, thousands in two months is not hard.
If all of the sites share a fast network, it gets quite speedy.
Slashdot Mirror
No it doesn't.
OWA has *zero* email filtering capabilities, at least as of Exch2000. IIRC Delegation is also not supported in OWA.
For most Unices, x86 is alien to them. AMD's X8664 is another one.
How about be run by people who do not want, or can not afford, to pay thousands of dollars for the license, and many more thousands of dollars for the hardware to run it?
How about run a web server capable of very high hit rates for under a thousand bucks>
How about supercomputing? How many unices are in the top 100 supercomputers? (seriously, anyone know?)
How about rendering movies so inexpensively (server AND destop used there)?
Hell, how about get media press!?! When is the last time HPUX got non-trade press coverage?
Neil Cavuto on FNC today was talking about Linux. Favorably.
Here is another one, you can go down to Borders or Barnes&Noble, or go online to Amazon and buy a book on Linux, and use it to set up a server *and* learn about the whole thing. All for the paltry cost of maybe 50 bucks plus a few hundred for hardware, assuming you don't have some laying around.
Essential? Depends on what you consider essential. Lower IT costs are considered essential by Amazon, Merril Lynch, Google, and many many others.
Clearly they consider Linux's capabilities essential.
Go ahead, try to build a Google on an expensive proprietary Unix OS and Hardware w/o losing your shirt financially speaking. Then tell me it can't do things that traditional Unices can't do.
Oh, and here is one last one:
The traditional, proprietary Unices were unable to move anywhere near the desktop, bridging the gap between server and workstation/desktop. Linux is.
Clearly you did not read the other end of the link.
You don't collect money, Speakeasy does. You only TS your connection, email problems, etc. are Speakeasy's bag. Your tech support consosts of the circuit issues on your end. In fact, they sign up with Speakeasy, and you get part of the monthlies from it. So the customers call Speakeasy first.
"""
What support will Speakeasy provide ? What support will I need to provide ?
Speakeasy provides support for the following NetShare Customer issues:
* Billing and invoice questions (not related to pricing)
* Technical questions or issues regarding email, and dialup.
As the Admin, it is your responsibility to provide support for:
* Customer support: for initial setup, signup and troubleshooting. Speakeasy will work with you to resolve issues related to circuit connectivity, and will forward any technical issue communicated by a NetShare Customer to you. You can then work with the Customer to resolve the issue in a diligent fashion.
* You are also responsible for the security and integrity of their shared network. Speakeasy may recommend, but is not responsible for enforcing specific network security measures.
"""
As far as saving a few bucks, so far nothing says you can't be credited more than your monthly fees. Maybe someone on the inside can fill that vagueness in for us?
Still, they even say in their FAQ it isn't for everyone.
Those are *UI* improvements, not *browser* *innovations*.
I love tabs, quite abit actually. But that is not a *browser* innovation. My terminal window has it. Would you say the command line "innovated" because of tabbed windows? I bet you wouldn't.
Popup blocking? That's just a response to popups. One "innovation" to stop another "innovation"? Please.
CSS? not a browser innovation, a standard! My word processing has stylesheets, XML has them, etc.. An improvement is not an innovation, just as not all innovations are improvements. Especially when alleged "innovations" come from other apps.
For crying out loud XChat has had tabbing for a long time. Graphical forms have had them for years as well. This goes for gestures as well. Games have had them for quite some time. Thus, not innovation but merely a UI feature offered elsewhere.
It is true there is very little innovation going on in the browser these days, But mostly because everyone got worried about "backward compatibility" and the fact that browsing was overhyped anyway.
After all, we are talking about wandering or searching a resource for information. How many innovations have there been in *walking* for example?
IMO, much of the lack of innovation has to do with poor shortsighted choices not a part of "browsing".
For example, the effectively flat namespace that is DNS according to Internic. A heirarchical namespace would bring us a vastly different world.
HTML is limited, the flat namespace is limiting. With these two firmly entrenched now, the next true innovation will come from elsewhere.
When the famed dream of bi-directional hyperlinks comes to fruition (if ever), we'll see innovation. When the web is more than just a uni-directional reference, and is more self-organizing, we'll see innovation. When the flat-namespace is busted out, and we move beyond HTML (or flash/shockwave -- after all those arent innovations in *browsing* they are different ways of showing you a pretty cartoon or movie clip), we'll see innovation.
Until then, we are stuck with the sea of flotsam, jetsam, and Innovation Stagnation(tm) that is the current state of the web and browsing it.
" FreeBSD box ... hasn't come under fire at all for this"
;^)
Of course not, it isn't a threat to SCO since they are not losing business to BSD, just Linux.
Trade Secrets *do* often have a time limit. It depend sont he contract. Many contracts, as well as case law, state that if others figure it out on their own, or after a reasonable amount of time, tough luck your protection is gone.
Many contracts are for 2-5 years.
you could be right.
However, RH9 comes with a significant amount of desktop SW out of the box. From OpenOffice.org to a nautilus window that pops up when you insert a blank CD into a burner --and provides the means to burn a new disc from there. From spreadsheets to GIMP, Python to Perl, GNOME to KDE.
From Evolution to Mozilla, and a large quantity of games and screensavers, spreading across 3 CD-ROMs, and a full install of ~5 GB.
Not quite.
The swastika seen by ~99% of people on the earth in the last 50-60 years is not the original. The Nazis reversed it.
miss who?
While I can not talk about whomever you were responding to, I can vouch for the effect he or she talked about.
When I got invovled in the industry (tech), I looked quite young (I looked 16-17 when I was in my mid twenties). I dressed very professionally, and was clean cut. Something you'd expect from someone raised around the military, and who had served as a U.S Army Cavalry Scout for several years. Yet I was discriminated against when met in person due to my *apparent* age.
My response? I grew a beard and long hair. The result, the disrepect I was given went away. While it is strue that dress and attitude are important, it is folly to overlook the bias against peope due to their age.
The particular bias I met was not that I didn't know what I was doing, but that I couldn't be trusted since I had not had years to "mature". Never mind the fact that I had various security clearances and posessed at one time the authority to call for tactical nuclear weapons on a battlefield. Nope, it was a perception that young==immature or that young==untrustworthy.
As a further driving point on this; when they found out how old I really was, they did an about face. One even questioned my age when he met me. Even today, I get more respect when they do not see me, since I still look young (though now I at lest look old enough to vote and/or drink).
No, bash on Windows is not nearly as powerful as bash on Unix.
Simply having a good shell does not give you the chaining of hundreds of specific utilities, the ability to control the system, etc..
It is not so much the shell that gives Unix it's power at the CLI, but the philosophy behind the development of the system.
The idea that I can take the output of one command, send it to another that then does something, and send that to another, and so on and so forth is the power.
Have a tool that does one (or two) thing(s), does it well, and make it play with others, using simple, easy, open plain text. Bash does not provide this, merely the environment to do it.
I *have* bash on Windows2k, and it is *not* as powerful. In bash on Linux I can programmatically change my webserver (apache) config using a series of CLI tools, and restart it. Windows (IIS) lacks that feature, even if you put bash on it. Further, through the addition of one or more CLI tools, I can do that across thousands of machines. Bash on Windows does not provide that.
So no, bash on Windows does not graft the power into that OS.
Actually the difference in usage for 99% of what people use MS Office for in the areas of Documents, spreadsheets, presentations, etc. are so near identical to Openoffice/Staroffice, that the costs per user can easily be less than the cost of the license for MS office.
In fact, for small businesses, a simple book will do the trick, as will just loading it and using it.
And BTW, MS *has* gone with Nasty License Scheme 6.0.
Note, that in this scenario, they would be making money from selling support contracts, not support. The trick to that business is to sell the contract, where people can turn to you for support, but then sell a product that doesn't need high levels of maintenance. In other words, keep your cost down.
Thus, if RH is making money by the support model, they are doing it because people want the "feel good" nature of the contract, combined with the much lower cost of providing said feel good level.
This means that Linux (or at least RH to RH) provides a lower cost of ownership. Of course, we've already seen that.
Children may be more susceptible, but they don't have money. If their parents had backbones, they wouldn't be getting the hapy meals, now would they?
Targeting children in advertising is pointless if parents don't buy the product being advertised.
Yeah, because we know making things illegal gets rid of them. Like rape, murder, theft. Good thing we outlawed those so now those do not happen anymore.
Oh wait, making something against the law doesn't remove the behaviour. That's why there are violations of the law at any given minute.
Most people fail to realize why Spam is so prevalent.
News flash: it works.
Sorry to say this folks, but the cost of spam is miniscule, if anything, to the spammer. If they spend nohting to get a sale, they will.
The *only* thing that is preventing big name corporations such as HP, IBM, Sears, etc. from doing it is the negative publicity associated with it. Otherwise, you bet your motherboard they would be doing it!
If the cost of Spam were borne by the sender, it would go down. Sorry but prosecution doesn't work so well. The cost of investigation to do the prosecution is just too high.
Fighting spam is like fighting the universe on the idiot war.
What gets me is the price of DVDs compared to Audio-CDs. I pay less for DVDs than I do for Audio CDs. New or used.
Personally, I'd rather my default settings about applications STAY across desktops. After all, I select galeon for my default *because*I*want*it*to*be*default. That shouldn't change because I used a different DE for a bit, for crying out loud.
Especially true for people who store login information, or certificates in their browser. I use galeon and Opera for various things, and it is much easier to have a default browser be sticky, so I can manage only one set of credentials.
"I already put in my login/certificate info?? Why is it not remembering it?!"
Maybe they disagree?
You call that a flamewar? Puh-leaze!
There wa sno flamewar. Disagreement about various things, yes, but certainly no flamewar.
Nor was the thread itself huge by lkml standards.
If you people don't get your act together and quit being zealots about things then Linux will forever remain a non-major player in userland.
So what? I care more about the server/developer world than the so-called "desktop world". And guess where linux is kicking ass. Yup, serverland.
When will you people learn that not all of us care that much about the alleged "desktop"? Even MS has realized the future is in servers, not "desktops".
All they need to do is pay RedHat for an SLA.
clearly some of you people have never tried running Microsoft license manager program. It is such a PITA, is often *WRONG*, and very convoluted.
For exmaple, I worked in a testing facility that had "tesing licenses" (translation, we could "have" as many licenses as we needed).
So, with a paltry nine machines on one test ring, 3000 licenses were not enough. No, that is not a typo.
Before people leap to the conclusion that keeping/auditing MS licenses is easy, they should try it.
Another point:
Why should a principle be paid three or more itmes as much as the best teacher? Why is the non-teacher count often much higher than the teacher count?
Why is it that these "teacher" organizations always say they'll have to cut teachers? Simple; they aren't teachers, so they sure as hell aren't cutting the administrator levels. Cutting teachers sounds much more emotional to the unwashed masses.
OK, are you going to at least try to read what he volunteered for? He said "...or anything they need", which could include that (especially since Linux provides such nice remote admin features), or he could help them perform the audit, oh wait he said that to.
Glad to see you are reading the whole post, there coward.
Besides, if a teacher (or official sysadmin, you do know what those are, right?) can not learn something so simple in six months, they should find a better job.
You clearly haven't seen the myriad of ways of "cluster" installation.
It could be done in half the time. Even less, depending on the hardware. If one can install hundreds in a few hours, thousands in two months is not hard.
If all of the sites share a fast network, it gets quite speedy.