I hate so-called scientists who can predict global warming but not predict the weather tomorrow
I hate know-all smart-arses on Slashdot who assume they know better than scientists published in the most authoritative scientific journals in the world, yet don't know the difference between weather forecasting and climate modelling (which are of course completely differnt things.)
Before blandly accepting another sky-is-falling study, ask Mr. Thompson if it will rain next Thursday.
Before talking bollocks on a subject you clearly know nothing about, try looking up the difference between weather forecasting and climate modelling. Dipshit.
Since the 70's every now and again someone predicts that such a climate change is just around the corner. The truth is that these predictions are very inaccurate. I'm talking thousands of years uncertainty. I see nothing in this article that makes this prediction any different.
So relax, the chances of anything like this happening in your lifetime is vanishingly small.
Wow, you realise that - as you know something that none of the other climatologists in the worldknow, that you must be on the brink of a glittering career and probably a Nobel prize! We sure are lucky to have scientific geniuses of yuor calibre hanging out on/.!
The problem is that the changes that human activities have increased
atmospheric levels of CO2 at an unprecedented rate. It is therefore
very likely (even on conservative estimates) that climate changes will
be dramatic, non-linear, and thus rather bad for human
civilisation. (Think sea-level rises of tens of meters. Think the US
turning into a dustbowl. )
Some references to further information. Google can supply
nonsensical 'sceptic' links if you really want to see what the oil
lobby and AM radio types want you to think. Personally I'll take the
likes of Science and Nature journals, thirty years of research by
peer-reviewed scientists over Rush Limbaugh any day.
What really frightens me is that since I started following the science
of this stuff in the mid 80s, evidence has consistently emerged that
shows the IPCC-type predictions are actually rather conservative. Real
climatologists are now very, very worried.
Oh and by the way: the world's fastest moving glacier, in Greenland,
doubled
it's speed according to NASA research. If the Greenland ice-shelf
slides into the sea you'd better be living in the Rockies with a large
stash of tinned goods.
Actually, even the Bush government now accepts the worldwide scientific consensus that human CO2 emissions are causing global climate change - google for 'Bush accept climate change' and pick your preferred source. He just doesn't think the US should join Kyoto or tajke any significant action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Please take note, all the nay-sayers posting ill-informed reasons why they think the theory is bunk.
Rather shamefacedly I have to say that I've tried a suggestion a few posts above this - renamed my ~/.mozilla to ~/old.mozilla, restarted, re-impoted old bookmarks file, re-enablde about:config -> general.Sm oothScroll and... so far, no crashes... shamefaced because I now remember this is fairly standard advice if yuo use a lot of moz / Firefox builds or different installations and suddenly start getting a lot of crashes. *hangs head in shame* (Still, at least I realised it was only me having the problem so it was prob something to do with my setup....)
I'd suggest yuo try this procedure out, too. Good luck!
Cheers (and thanks to the poster who suggested this... who says/.. is *just* a waste of time?;)
Thanks for the link. One of the responders to my request for help pointed me to RealClimate.org which is far more authoritative & informed than I could ever hope to be.
It turns out that a far more authoritative & informed group than I could ever hope to be ahve already set up something very like what I had in mind. Check out RealClimate - hopefully a few accurate links will be posted in response to the usual garbage that will get trotted out again next time/. does a climate change story.
It's the official moz.org released build so that's not it. Library incompatibilities is a possibility I guess - I'm oon Mandrake but regularly recompile stuff from source, eg openssl;.. I did once try to get GTK2.0 going but gave up after hammering on the top trying to get it to compile for several days (strange cryptic errs from deep in some obscure sub-library.)
I can't remember the last time FireFox crashed. Have you done something funky to your profile, or installed some kind of weird extension? If you want stability back, I'd suggest creating a new profile by moving your.firefox (or.mozilla-firefox) directory somewhere else and rerunning firefox.
Hmm,.. I did tinker with a few extensions but have uninstalled them - still, the.firefox dir is a useful-sounding suggestion - I'll give it a go. Thanks!
Create a javascript which does the following:
Opens a popup. Sets a timeout to print and close the popup after an arbitrary period (4 seconds in my test).
When the popup comes up, manually close it. When the timeout fires, it will crash the browser.
Log a bug at bugzilla.mozilla.org... you'll get a warm glow of self-satisfaction if you do!:)
I'm running FireFox 1.0 (compiled from source) and it's quite stable and solid. It can go weeks without crashing. In fact, I don't think it has ever crashed on me.
I know, it just seems to be me that has this problem, so logically it's something b0rked on my system... also means no-one else is likely to be able to reproduce or fix whatever it is. This makes it MORE, not less, frustrating tho'! I'd be happier if I had eg a Bugzilla item to track. At least I'd know when to start testing again.
I usually run nightly snapshots rather than release versions...so they aren't supposed to be all that stable. Perhaps you should install from a development tarball? That's what I always do.
The thing happens with 1.0 official release, 1.0rc1, recently nightly build. I'm on dialup; pulling - what is it now, 30Mb? - of source isn't practical unfortunately.
> you might also consider that it could be a hardware problem
I'm sceptical of RAM issues (tho' several other posters here have suggested it) as it only seems to affect Firefox. Incidentally I do run out of/usr/local and it is a separate partiotion (I have 3 physical disks and...er, 'lots' of logical partitions.) Hmm, bad blocks on the disk is a possibility, I'll see about freeing up some space in/home & installing there.
If you've ruled out stuff like a bad stick of RAM, I would suggest you try a different build. This happened for me once with an older version (0.9something) of firefox - a debian build would crash regularly. It was extremely frustrating. But then I tried the official mozilla.org build, and it was solid as a rock.
I've tried a recent nightly with no improvement. Realistically I'll keep pulling newer builds every now & then for testing. I don't thinmk it could be hardware related as other apps/daemons would by unstable, too.
Firefox is currently ripping IE a new one, and that's a good thing. From what I've heard of the Windows version, it's as good as the Linux version.
Here's the best praise I can give Firefox: I cannot tell which OS I'm using it on until I start downloading a file.
Speak for yourselves. I've been using Gecko/mozilla/FirebirdFirefox since 1999 and since I finally switched to Linux at home as well as work I've had a series of increasingly frustrating crashes. Browser uptime has plummetted since 1.0 to the point that after five years backing the lizard when no-one else had heard of it, or cared, I'm now running it only in the background to generate Talkback data when the inevitable (3-times a day on average now) crashes come. This post comes courtesy of Konquerer which at time of writing has been up for four days with multiple tabs and no problems at all.
I'm profuondly sorry to say it, but Firefox on Linux *sucks*.
*sigh* no-one is disputing that solar output fluctuates over time. The thing that you don't seem to have realised is that *this is taken into account* by climate models. Believe it or not, climatologists are not, in fact, morons.
Whew, where to start. The beginning! OK, but forgive me if I get fed up and quit half way thru'.
> In the beginning, all the whales were going to die,
Whale populations are indeed still under severe threat althuogh banning almost all whaling around the world is (I believe) starting to stablise populations. More to the point this has nothing to do with climate change at all.
then we were all going to die of polluted water (remember "acid rain" kids?),
I don't remember _anyone_ saying this. Acid rain was and IS a problem - I live in a proper (10000 year old) Forest which still suffers from acid rain. Power station emissions of sulphur dioxide are greatly reduced in the last 20 years but emissions from shipping (which burn horribly dirty heavy fuel oil without much attempt to scrub emissions) have increased dramatically in teh same period.
nevertheless - as above - nothing to do with climate change
>then the air was going to become to polluted to breathe (smog - still a problem but under control),
who said this? references? total straw man argument
then the ozone layer was going to disappear because of CFC's.
Yep, then CFCs were drastically reduced and lo, the hole is beginning to shrink.
Still n.t.d.w. climate change
The reason we are skeptical of this round ("global warming") is because first the argument was that the earth was going to cool, then they weren't so sure, now it is going to warm (they think). And they are PRETTY sure it is caused by CO2, that humans produce (they think).
Completely wrong. See www.realclimate.org for some actual facts as opposed to random anecdotes of what you think you remember of the past. As you're regurgitating the tripe pedalled by oil-company funded 'scientists' and seem to have nm idea what yuou're talking about I'm cutting my critique off here.
Wow, that looks really good - thanks. I've also been pointed at www.realclimate.org which is pretty much what I had in mind - I'll be contributing any useful info I have to this site.
You might like to check out http://www.realclimate.org/ - I'd hate to reinvent the wheel and tehse people seem to be much better qualified that I am!:)
Ah, right - after fighting the (still ***ing awful after all these years) Bugzilla interface I thought I'd spotted a likely candidate - textarea input bug fixed 11th December. Curses, and I monopolosied the phoneline for an hour pulling down the latest Mozilla nightly hoping it was fixed!
I don't suppose by any chance you have a Bugzilla ref number? Or pointers to some other place it's been discussed? (I must admit to getting seriously out of touch with the project culture since Moz 1.0.)
cheers
Let me first say that I've been using Gecko-based browsers since _1999_ - the first release of the almost UI-less Gecko HTML rendering component - and have pesisted with bug reports and whatnot since then. I perversely keep each new Firebird instance running until it crashes.
I assume this is a Linux-only issue because there'd be more fuss if it affected the win32 users. For me at least, 1.0 is a stability disaster. I'm getting three or four crashes a day on average. Talkback kicks off each time but more often than not I end up with multiple queued incidents and 'network connect failed' errors - could this be caused by millions of other crashing Firebirds saturating the pipe to crash-data? I'd love to report a bug but don't see any commonality except that it seems to happen when I have Project Gutenberg Distributed Proofreaders' proofing interface open, which means I have two windows - one with PGDP and one with multiple tabs. I only usually see a few other sites, mostly Slashdot, the Reg,. and the BBC's text-only pages (no broadband out here in the west of the UK:( )
It's got so bad I'm now switching to Knoquerer for normal browsing. Every Firebird crash is losing me data, in fact *work* in the form of half-proofed Gutebnberg pages. It's especially heartbreaking when I've been with the project so long, thru' all he various M-xx milestones, the mozilla 1.0 'gold' back in June 2002 - when I picked up a souvenir CD - all in all, very very sad.
Thanks, that's a new one for me. FWIW the list of sites I have so far (including the 27 sites Google lists under 'skeptics'):
Sorry, I haven't got time to stick
in front of all these items:/
Interfaith Climate Change Network - http://www.protectingcreation.org/
Describes ways individuals and congregations can act on the issues of climate change and energy use. Joint project of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA and the Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life.
BBC News: Global Climate Change - http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_dep th/sci_tech/2000/climate_change/
An analysis of the science and other issues behind the climate change debate, from BBC News Online.
The Great Climate Flip-flop - http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jan/climate.ht m
Could Global Warming lead to Global Cooling? Warming could lead, paradoxically, to drastic cooling -- a catastrophe that could threaten the survival of civilization. Atlantic Monthly.
Climate Change and Sustainable Transport - http://www.oecd.org/env/cc/index.htm
Challenge is the integration of climate policy objectives into other sectoral policy areas such as transport, energy and agriculture.
Climate Change Research at WRI - http://www.wri.org/climate/index.html
WRI identifies opportunities to reduce the risk of global climate change in ways that drive sustainable economic development worldwide.
Climate Action Network Australia - http://www.cana.net.au/
Non-profit environmental group dedicated to fighting climate change and finding solutions to the problem. Includes news and current programs.
International Climate Change Partnership - http://www.iccp.net
Global coalition of companies and trade associations committed to constructive and responsible participation in the international policy process concerning global climate change. Includes objectives, a list of members, and literature.
Climate Change - http://www.euronet.nl/users/e_wesker/climate.html
An overview of climate change, theories and perspectives, and notable weather patterns.
Climate Change Debate - http://www.climatechangedebate.org
Climate change and global warming science, government policy, energy technology, cost and benefits debated via an unmoderated, uncensored listserve, plus research aides.
OneWorld: Climate Change Campaign - http://www.oneworld.net/campaigns/climatechange/
Includes news, archives and articles on this topic.
Environmental Protection Agency Global Warming Site - http://www.epa.gov/oppeoee1/globalwarming/index.ht ml
Focuses on the science and impacts of global warming or climate change, and on actions by governments, corporations, and individuals that help address global warming issues. The site also features climate change related news, events, publications, reports, presentations, and links to other sites.
Asia Pacific Network on Climate Change - http://www.ap-net.org/
A clearing house for climate change issues sponsored by the Japanese Ministry of the Environment. Highlighting articles, conference schedules, and related resources.
Stormy Weather: 101 Solutions to Global Climate Change - http://www.earthfuture.com/stormyweather
Companion site to the book of the same name. Offers information on climate change, and tips for individuals, companies, municipilaties, governments and developing nations to counter this issue.
Proposals to Reforest the Earth - http://www.geocities.com/prajna75/
A series of white papers on deforestation and the need to reverse this destructive process, by Gabriel Penno Saraiva.
Datum-Line - http://www.datum-line.co.uk
Examines coastal erosion, artificial reef, sea defence, coastal and inland flooding, rising sea levels, global warming, marine tyre structures and designs.
Climate Action Network South Asia - http://www.can-sa.net/
A global network of over Non-Governmental Organizations working to promote government and individual action to limit human induced climate chan
Thanks:) that's on the list... as it happens, I personally have owned stock in Ballard (hydrogen fuel cell pioneer since 1997. And I specifically do NOT want to get into the question of what should replace fossil fuels. There are good arguments *for* nuclear power, and good args against. I'm *only* trying to get to grips with the initial questions of "does human emitted CO2 change the climate, and if so, should we care?" Many people really don't care - however this exercise might at least provide a list of things we can point to when the question 'why should I care?' is asked.
Thank you! Not only do I applaud your effort, but that list is fun to read just for how funny and lame some of those arguments sound...
Thanks, but it's not actually very funny if you've been following it for as long as I have... I really want to believe people are basically good, but the way clever people swallow propaganda is profoundly depressing.
incidentally four hours after posting that I've had a grand total of three emails. Come on slashdotters, where's your trigger fingers? I'd expected a few more rants, at least! Not to mention climate scientists... it occured to me that people might suspect I'm either trolling or trying to harvest email addresses - I'm not! if you would like to help but are worried about getting in touch with me, please reply to this thread explaining why & suggesting alternatiev solutions. Originally I thought I'd have to go write messages on every sensible poster's journal appealing for their help... c'mon folks, I'm ntot asking for a huge amount of help, a quick 'here are some links that might help, good luck!" type mail will help... (tho' I prob have all the obvious sources dmoz / google would turn up, listed.)
Slashdot Mirror
Before talking bollocks on a subject you clearly know nothing about, try looking up the difference between weather forecasting and climate modelling. Dipshit.
Wow, you realise that - as you know something that none of the other climatologists in the worldknow, that you must be on the brink of a glittering career and probably a Nobel prize! We sure are lucky to have scientific geniuses of yuor calibre hanging out on /.!
Some references to further information. Google can supply nonsensical 'sceptic' links if you really want to see what the oil lobby and AM radio types want you to think. Personally I'll take the likes of Science and Nature journals, thirty years of research by peer-reviewed scientists over Rush Limbaugh any day.
- RealClimate.org/a>
- http://www.aip.org/history/climate/
- Global Warming FAQ
- http://ebulletin.le.ac.uk/features/2000-2009/2004
/ 12/nparticle-vkt-hgf-t4c
What really frightens me is that since I started following the science of this stuff in the mid 80s, evidence has consistently emerged that shows the IPCC-type predictions are actually rather conservative. Real climatologists are now very, very worried.Oh and by the way: the world's fastest moving glacier, in Greenland, doubled it's speed according to NASA research. If the Greenland ice-shelf slides into the sea you'd better be living in the Rockies with a large stash of tinned goods.
Please take note, all the nay-sayers posting ill-informed reasons why they think the theory is bunk.
I'd suggest yuo try this procedure out, too. Good luck!
Cheers (and thanks to the poster who suggested this... who says /.. is *just* a waste of time? ;)
cheers
It turns out that a far more authoritative & informed group than I could ever hope to be ahve already set up something very like what I had in mind. Check out RealClimate - hopefully a few accurate links will be posted in response to the usual garbage that will get trotted out again next time /. does a climate change story.
It's the official moz.org released build so that's not it. Library incompatibilities is a possibility I guess - I'm oon Mandrake but regularly recompile stuff from source, eg openssl;.. I did once try to get GTK2.0 going but gave up after hammering on the top trying to get it to compile for several days (strange cryptic errs from deep in some obscure sub-library.)
Hmm,.. I did tinker with a few extensions but have uninstalled them - still, the .firefox dir is a useful-sounding suggestion - I'll give it a go. Thanks!
Log a bug at bugzilla.mozilla.org... you'll get a warm glow of self-satisfaction if you do! :)
I know, it just seems to be me that has this problem, so logically it's something b0rked on my system... also means no-one else is likely to be able to reproduce or fix whatever it is. This makes it MORE, not less, frustrating tho'! I'd be happier if I had eg a Bugzilla item to track. At least I'd know when to start testing again.
> you might also consider that it could be a hardware problem
I'm sceptical of RAM issues (tho' several other posters here have suggested it) as it only seems to affect Firefox. Incidentally I do run out of /usr/local and it is a separate partiotion (I have 3 physical disks and...er, 'lots' of logical partitions.) Hmm, bad blocks on the disk is a possibility, I'll see about freeing up some space in /home & installing there.
I've tried a recent nightly with no improvement. Realistically I'll keep pulling newer builds every now & then for testing. I don't thinmk it could be hardware related as other apps/daemons would by unstable, too.
I'm profuondly sorry to say it, but Firefox on Linux *sucks*.
*sigh* no-one is disputing that solar output fluctuates over time. The thing that you don't seem to have realised is that *this is taken into account* by climate models. Believe it or not, climatologists are not, in fact, morons.
> In the beginning, all the whales were going to die,
Whale populations are indeed still under severe threat althuogh banning almost all whaling around the world is (I believe) starting to stablise populations. More to the point this has nothing to do with climate change at all.
then we were all going to die of polluted water (remember "acid rain" kids?),
I don't remember _anyone_ saying this. Acid rain was and IS a problem - I live in a proper (10000 year old) Forest which still suffers from acid rain. Power station emissions of sulphur dioxide are greatly reduced in the last 20 years but emissions from shipping (which burn horribly dirty heavy fuel oil without much attempt to scrub emissions) have increased dramatically in teh same period.
nevertheless - as above - nothing to do with climate change
>then the air was going to become to polluted to breathe (smog - still a problem but under control),
who said this? references? total straw man argument
then the ozone layer was going to disappear because of CFC's. Yep, then CFCs were drastically reduced and lo, the hole is beginning to shrink.
Still n.t.d.w. climate change
The reason we are skeptical of this round ("global warming") is because first the argument was that the earth was going to cool, then they weren't so sure, now it is going to warm (they think). And they are PRETTY sure it is caused by CO2, that humans produce (they think).
Completely wrong. See www.realclimate.org for some actual facts as opposed to random anecdotes of what you think you remember of the past. As you're regurgitating the tripe pedalled by oil-company funded 'scientists' and seem to have nm idea what yuou're talking about I'm cutting my critique off here.
www.realclimate.org
cheers
You might like to check out http://www.realclimate.org/ - I'd hate to reinvent the wheel and tehse people seem to be much better qualified that I am! :)
I don't suppose by any chance you have a Bugzilla ref number? Or pointers to some other place it's been discussed? (I must admit to getting seriously out of touch with the project culture since Moz 1.0.) cheers
I assume this is a Linux-only issue because there'd be more fuss if it affected the win32 users. For me at least, 1.0 is a stability disaster. I'm getting three or four crashes a day on average. Talkback kicks off each time but more often than not I end up with multiple queued incidents and 'network connect failed' errors - could this be caused by millions of other crashing Firebirds saturating the pipe to crash-data? I'd love to report a bug but don't see any commonality except that it seems to happen when I have Project Gutenberg Distributed Proofreaders' proofing interface open, which means I have two windows - one with PGDP and one with multiple tabs. I only usually see a few other sites, mostly Slashdot, the Reg,. and the BBC's text-only pages (no broadband out here in the west of the UK :( )
It's got so bad I'm now switching to Knoquerer for normal browsing. Every Firebird crash is losing me data, in fact *work* in the form of half-proofed Gutebnberg pages. It's especially heartbreaking when I've been with the project so long, thru' all he various M-xx milestones, the mozilla 1.0 'gold' back in June 2002 - when I picked up a souvenir CD - all in all, very very sad.
Sorry, I haven't got time to stick
in front of all these items :/
Interfaith Climate Change Network - http://www.protectingcreation.org/ Describes ways individuals and congregations can act on the issues of climate change and energy use. Joint project of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA and the Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life. BBC News: Global Climate Change - http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_dep th/sci_tech/2000/climate_change/ An analysis of the science and other issues behind the climate change debate, from BBC News Online. The Great Climate Flip-flop - http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98jan/climate.ht m Could Global Warming lead to Global Cooling? Warming could lead, paradoxically, to drastic cooling -- a catastrophe that could threaten the survival of civilization. Atlantic Monthly. Climate Change and Sustainable Transport - http://www.oecd.org/env/cc/index.htm Challenge is the integration of climate policy objectives into other sectoral policy areas such as transport, energy and agriculture. Climate Change Research at WRI - http://www.wri.org/climate/index.html WRI identifies opportunities to reduce the risk of global climate change in ways that drive sustainable economic development worldwide. Climate Action Network Australia - http://www.cana.net.au/ Non-profit environmental group dedicated to fighting climate change and finding solutions to the problem. Includes news and current programs. International Climate Change Partnership - http://www.iccp.net Global coalition of companies and trade associations committed to constructive and responsible participation in the international policy process concerning global climate change. Includes objectives, a list of members, and literature. Climate Change - http://www.euronet.nl/users/e_wesker/climate.html An overview of climate change, theories and perspectives, and notable weather patterns. Climate Change Debate - http://www.climatechangedebate.org Climate change and global warming science, government policy, energy technology, cost and benefits debated via an unmoderated, uncensored listserve, plus research aides. OneWorld: Climate Change Campaign - http://www.oneworld.net/campaigns/climatechange/ Includes news, archives and articles on this topic. Environmental Protection Agency Global Warming Site - http://www.epa.gov/oppeoee1/globalwarming/index.ht ml Focuses on the science and impacts of global warming or climate change, and on actions by governments, corporations, and individuals that help address global warming issues. The site also features climate change related news, events, publications, reports, presentations, and links to other sites. Asia Pacific Network on Climate Change - http://www.ap-net.org/ A clearing house for climate change issues sponsored by the Japanese Ministry of the Environment. Highlighting articles, conference schedules, and related resources. Stormy Weather: 101 Solutions to Global Climate Change - http://www.earthfuture.com/stormyweather Companion site to the book of the same name. Offers information on climate change, and tips for individuals, companies, municipilaties, governments and developing nations to counter this issue. Proposals to Reforest the Earth - http://www.geocities.com/prajna75/ A series of white papers on deforestation and the need to reverse this destructive process, by Gabriel Penno Saraiva. Datum-Line - http://www.datum-line.co.uk Examines coastal erosion, artificial reef, sea defence, coastal and inland flooding, rising sea levels, global warming, marine tyre structures and designs. Climate Action Network South Asia - http://www.can-sa.net/ A global network of over Non-Governmental Organizations working to promote government and individual action to limit human induced climate chan
cheers
Thanks, but it's not actually very funny if you've been following it for as long as I have... I really want to believe people are basically good, but the way clever people swallow propaganda is profoundly depressing.
incidentally four hours after posting that I've had a grand total of three emails. Come on slashdotters, where's your trigger fingers? I'd expected a few more rants, at least! Not to mention climate scientists... it occured to me that people might suspect I'm either trolling or trying to harvest email addresses - I'm not! if you would like to help but are worried about getting in touch with me, please reply to this thread explaining why & suggesting alternatiev solutions. Originally I thought I'd have to go write messages on every sensible poster's journal appealing for their help... c'mon folks, I'm ntot asking for a huge amount of help, a quick 'here are some links that might help, good luck!" type mail will help... (tho' I prob have all the obvious sources dmoz / google would turn up, listed.)
cheers