It is pointless to argue with an indoctrinated jingoist who responds to facts about his country's ongoing genocide of its neighbouring people(s) with anachronistic crap about mediaval god-emperor's claims and all the crappiness committed in the long-gone past by other imperialists.
Oh,so you think this communicate is meaningless?
Come on , don't shut me out.
You completely avoided any response to the fact that the Tibetan people, who are in every single way non-Chinese, have never wanted to be occupied, oppressed and flooded by hordes of alien Chinese settlers any more than your own ancestors wanted to becomes slaves to the Japanese.
I did answer that. My answer is Tibet belong to China ever since Qing Dynasty.
And Tibet is not our neighbor,it is a part of China.
"The Chinese Emperor Qian Long (1711-1799) closed the frontiers of Tibet to the outside world, thus imposing on Tibet an exclusionary policy similar to that already enforced for China proper" From The Pundits: British Exploration of Tibet & Central Asia, by Derek Waller. 1990 (paperback, 2004). The University Press of Kentucky, ISBN 0-8131-1666-X.
without a least bit of remorse, continue torturing, raping and wiping out
I ask again for evidence
Do you know why I am curious about this ? Because now there are so many privileges minorites have that more and more Han-nationality change their ethnic to Tibetan,Hui,Miao and so on to take that privilege. A lot of debate on BBS about those privileges. But I think it is good for unite of our nation and happy life of every minority.
I really appreciate this reply,which is the longest I have ever seen in/.
" The purpose of that incursion/invasion was to extract diplomatic and trade favours and to prevent the Russians from using Tibet against the British-occupied India."
May be first I should ask whether it is right for the British to occupy India?
Then, British want to fight Russians on the land belong to China. This again remind me of the fight between Japanese and Russians in North-east of China in 1904-1905 which result in thousands of Chinese death.
I think your logic is that Two Big country is at war,and Tibet is a place useful , so why not take it ? Right?
Actually,we understand this, it is darwinism weak country will be the battle field of Strong country, and most of the people don't think it is wrong. So the only way to stop invasion , to keep its people from being killed is to be strong enough.
It was to extract diplomatic and trade guarantees from Tibet
In the early 1900s Tibet was a nearly complete vacuum militarily after the Tibetans had chosen to give up their past warrior ways several hundred years earlier to concentrate on building a wholly buddhist society. The arguments for not needing a strong army any longer were 1) support from the buddhist Mongolia, 2) The Himalayas protected Tibet from the south (although there were no large aggressive threats from that direction, and the Tibetans were largely unaware of modern techology in warfare, until 1903-1904 of course) and 3) the Chinese emperor had signed an eternal treaty of peace with Tibet (after Tibetans had invaded the Chinese imperial capital!).
This is your own wrong suppose. And do you know the war between Nepal and Tibet in 1791 ? After that "A large Chinese army now occupied the most populous part of Tibet."and "The Chinese Emperor Qian Long closed the frontiers of Tibet to the outside world, thus imposing on Tibet an exclusionary policy similar to that already enforced for China proper"
From The Pundits: British Exploration of Tibet & Central Asia, by Derek Waller. 1990 (paperback, 2004). The University Press of Kentucky, ISBN 0-8131-1666-X.
Maybe you really don't know what trade guarantee mean to China. Ever think 1840's opium war which started because China started prohibiting sell of opium. And British is the most largest seller! After,though "trade guarantee", millions of silver was paid as war reparations.
Please don't say all this is forged again. The ruin of "Yuan Ming Yuan" is still in Bei Jing.
When the Chinese communist army invaded Tibet in 1949
Tibet is a part of China ever since Qing dynasty. I had admit that all of this is by record of Qing's history. Wait,if it is under control of Qing ever since Qing, how could I find material other than that. If you have , could you provide some link ?
Are you willing to try and learn what China has really done to Tibet since the Communist Party established its "dictatorship of the proletariat"? Or do you just take the CCP's Propaganda Department's rewritten fairytales as a canonical fact?
To tell the truth, this is not I have heard, do you have any evidence
If I have money and time, Tibet will be the first place to travel,so I wang to see what Tibet is really like today by my own eye.
And only Mao tried to wipe out old Chinese culture (including the "traditional" script)
This is wrong. Because we Chinese suffered lots of invasions and "force to trade",people begain to think why ? What is wrong ? Then some of the people came to the conclusion that our culture is wrong. So if we want to stop invasion, to make our country strong enough , we have to change the culture. New culture movement is one of the core of 5.4 movement 1919. Then indeed Mao is responsable for the starvation around 1960.
VOA is a good material to learn English, really.
Since you are in China, why not pay a visit to Tibet to know what is happening there ?
If you have time or in south China,maybe you can go to the flood to see how PLA go all out to help people there.
Yes,as a Chinese living in China,most of the posts are just something out of time.
Maybe I am be called brain washed,but when choose between A strong country & a free country,I will choose the first. PS: We are more free than lots of people think.
Good will will not always reach good result .
USA help to improve demoracy in Iraq,but people people there are free to be killed.
That is the result,no matter what the will is.
We wan't the stability of the country to promote our economy,to improve the living standard of all the people. And demoracy in China is improving as the economy grow.
As the "Tianan men",maybe you should compare the way Russia and China take,
who suffer huge inflation? who suffer from the oligarch
China changed rapidly. When I return my hometown two times a year,I can feel the change in both the economy and people's mind. So if anybody really wan't to know real China,please pay a visit .
Don't be amazed .
Lots of people misunderstand communist
communism != planned economy
The past experience proved that planned economy can't work well.
So China and Viet Nam all adopted maket economy,which most people think is Capitalism.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh,so you think this communicate is meaningless?
Come on , don't shut me out.
You completely avoided any response to the fact that the Tibetan people, who are in every single way non-Chinese, have never wanted to be occupied, oppressed and flooded by hordes of alien Chinese settlers any more than your own ancestors wanted to becomes slaves to the Japanese.I did answer that. My answer is Tibet belong to China ever since Qing Dynasty.
And Tibet is not our neighbor ,it is a part of China.
"The Chinese Emperor Qian Long (1711-1799) closed the frontiers of Tibet to the outside world, thus imposing on Tibet an exclusionary policy similar to that already enforced for China proper" From The Pundits: British Exploration of Tibet & Central Asia, by Derek Waller. 1990 (paperback, 2004). The University Press of Kentucky, ISBN 0-8131-1666-X.
without a least bit of remorse, continue torturing, raping and wiping outI ask again for evidence
Do you know why I am curious about this ? Because now there are so many privileges minorites have that more and more Han-nationality change their ethnic to Tibetan,Hui,Miao and so on to take that privilege. A lot of debate on BBS about those privileges. But I think it is good for unite of our nation and happy life of every minority.
I really appreciate this reply,which is the longest I have ever seen in /.
" The purpose of that incursion/invasion was to extract diplomatic and trade favours and to prevent the Russians from using Tibet against the British-occupied India."
May be first I should ask whether it is right for the British to occupy India?
Then, British want to fight Russians on the land belong to China. This again remind me of the fight between Japanese and Russians in North-east of China in 1904-1905 which result in thousands of Chinese death.
I think your logic is that Two Big country is at war,and Tibet is a place useful , so why not take it ? Right?
Actually,we understand this, it is darwinism weak country will be the battle field of Strong country, and most of the people don't think it is wrong. So the only way to stop invasion , to keep its people from being killed is to be strong enough.
It was to extract diplomatic and trade guarantees from Tibet
In the early 1900s Tibet was a nearly complete vacuum militarily after the Tibetans had chosen to give up their past warrior ways several hundred years earlier to concentrate on building a wholly buddhist society. The arguments for not needing a strong army any longer were 1) support from the buddhist Mongolia, 2) The Himalayas protected Tibet from the south (although there were no large aggressive threats from that direction, and the Tibetans were largely unaware of modern techology in warfare, until 1903-1904 of course) and 3) the Chinese emperor had signed an eternal treaty of peace with Tibet (after Tibetans had invaded the Chinese imperial capital!).
This is your own wrong suppose. And do you know the war between Nepal and Tibet in 1791 ? After that "A large Chinese army now occupied the most populous part of Tibet."and "The Chinese Emperor Qian Long closed the frontiers of Tibet to the outside world, thus imposing on Tibet an exclusionary policy similar to that already enforced for China proper" From The Pundits: British Exploration of Tibet & Central Asia, by Derek Waller. 1990 (paperback, 2004). The University Press of Kentucky, ISBN 0-8131-1666-X. ,though "trade guarantee", millions of silver was paid as war reparations.
Please don't say all this is forged again. The ruin of "Yuan Ming Yuan" is still in Bei Jing.
Maybe you really don't know what trade guarantee mean to China. Ever think 1840's opium war which started because China started prohibiting sell of opium. And British is the most largest seller! After
When the Chinese communist army invaded Tibet in 1949
Tibet is a part of China ever since Qing dynasty. I had admit that all of this is by record of Qing's history. Wait,if it is under control of Qing ever since Qing, how could I find material other than that. If you have , could you provide some link ?
Are you willing to try and learn what China has really done to Tibet since the Communist Party established its "dictatorship of the proletariat"? Or do you just take the CCP's Propaganda Department's rewritten fairytales as a canonical fact?
To tell the truth, this is not I have heard, do you have any evidence If I have money and time, Tibet will be the first place to travel,so I wang to see what Tibet is really like today by my own eye.
And only Mao tried to wipe out old Chinese culture (including the "traditional" script)
This is wrong. Because we Chinese suffered lots of invasions and "force to trade",people begain to think why ? What is wrong ? Then some of the people came to the conclusion that our culture is wrong. So if we want to stop invasion, to make our country strong enough , we have to change the culture. New culture movement is one of the core of 5.4 movement 1919. Then indeed Mao is responsable for the starvation around 1960.
So y
VOA is a good material to learn English, really. Since you are in China, why not pay a visit to Tibet to know what is happening there ? If you have time or in south China,maybe you can go to the flood to see how PLA go all out to help people there.
Do you know the history that British invaded Tibet and killed thousands of Tibetan in 1903-1904?
Yes,as a Chinese living in China ,most of the posts are just something out of time.
Maybe I am be called brain washed,but when choose between A strong country & a free country ,I will choose the first. PS: We are more free than lots of people think.
Good will will not always reach good result .
USA help to improve demoracy in Iraq ,but people people there are free to be killed.
That is the result ,no matter what the will is.
We wan't the stability of the country to promote our economy ,to improve the living standard of all the people. And demoracy in China is improving as the economy grow.
As the "Tianan men",maybe you should compare the way Russia and China take,
who suffer huge inflation? who suffer from the oligarch
China changed rapidly. When I return my hometown two times a year,I can feel the change in both the economy and people's mind. So if anybody really wan't to know real China ,please pay a visit .
Don't be amazed .
Lots of people misunderstand communist communism != planned economy The past experience proved that planned economy can't work well. So China and Viet Nam all adopted maket economy,which most people think is Capitalism.