I gave many examples of advantages but you don't value them. That's fine, but others do and would switch but for inertia. All those corporations stuck with XP and IE6 probably wish they could make the jump to Win7 and keep IE 6 for their internal craplications. A few years ago, they wished they could compile the latest and greatest IE for XP.
As for OSX, I have a lot less problem with it. It's not quite my cup of tea but it is my next choice after Linux. Of course it's not exactly the year of the OSX desktop in corporate America either. It remains the slightly odd choice that people have heard of on the desktop. iOS OTOH is a real contender and while not as big as Android, it has a respectable market share.
You can install bash on Windows, but only if you install the rest of Cygwin (basically a Unix userspace ported to Windows).
You can very well be stuck if you use XP. Let's say, one of those nice pre-installed machines craps out. Now, if you want consistancy, you're SOL.
With Linux, since you can mix and match, you can either install the old distro on a well chosen new machine or you can install the latest but keep all of the old userspace in a chroot for that special app that needs the old libraries.
But to each his own. You are free to pound nails with a rock if you like, but I prefer a hammer or a nailgun for that.
I think you underestimate the magnitude of user inertia. I suspect as the generation growing up to expect varied interfaces matures, they'll be more open to a Linux desktop.
It wouldn't help in this case. The shutdown is precautionary until they can determine if the problem is systematic due to a design flaw or not. In a more modular system, they would still have to shut down all of the modules until they could make the determination.
Windscale is amazing. An actual reactor where the core was open to the atmosphere (and cooled by blowing air through it!). It did remarkably little harm for such a design.
As compared to our standards today, one might expect Europe to be inhabited exclusively by shambling radiation burned mutants now.
The problem is, no matter how cheap, unless it is Free, you still get to spend money on license compliance. The very largest organizations need not worry because they likely have a very expensive site license, but anything smaller does not. And license compliance can be quite hard. Even Microsoft can't tell you exactly how many of what licenses you will need (seriously, call them 3 times, give the same description, get three mutually exclusive answers!)
If you want other benefits, there are plenty. Consider all the pain now as various organizations now have to either migrate off of XP now or cough up huge sums to maintain support for a few more years. Not a problem with a Free OS.
BTW, multiple workspaces are NICE to have. I generally use 6 (technically 5, the 6th is the one my wife uses for some quick browsing and such).
Does Windows FINALLY have a compose key? Nice if I need an ümlaut (yes, I know umlaut is not spelled with an umlaut)
As for the system portability, I explicitly stated that it includes the userspace software.
Yes, at the pocket watch scale you must make concessions to the limited power of the platform and the limited UI, but the standard cli utilities work just fine. The GUI stuff needs a bit more oomph than a pocket watch can provide but it does scale from small SBCs that can be attached to the back of a monitor on up to a z system. That's a mainframe, not supercomputer, BTW. It does all work fine on a supercomputer though (it's quite common to install the GUI on the master node and login nodes).
Another nice thing with the Linux GUI is that even on a multi-user system, each user can have the desktop he/she wants. I can select xfce, you can have Gnome3, someone else can have KDE. It's a good thing too. You might have noticed that many people consider the changes made for Gnome 3 akin to pissing on the Mona Lisa. No problem, just pick a different desktop. Still not a problem is another user of the same system is a Gnome 3 true believer.
While Windows has made great progress in stability and durability, it still has a habit of periodically crapping it's pants such that a re-install is the best answer.
In cases where something goes wrong (like a user error that runs the load average up will over 100), Linux can likely be recovered through the CLI or even a serial console. Yes, that's more often called for in a server, but in Linux the difference between server and workstation is just a matter of which packages you choose to install.
Install Windows and you have an OS. Install a Linux Distro and you have a huge variety of software to choose from. Office suite, image editing/processing, genomics, etc all there and part of the official distro.
While a typical user may not be comfortable on the command line, it is there for the power user in Linux. And I don't mean the crappy DOS shell, I mean a choice of feature-full shells each speaking a Turing complete script language.
You can mix and match as needed. Usually NetworkManager is a good choice for desktop users. But if not, run something else instead, use the older configuration system, a custom script, or manually configure. No need to reboot.
All that and nobody can force me to 'upgrade' if I don't want to. And nobody shoves the cup under my nose if I *DO* want to. Know that 'old' Windows box that can't run Win7? Install the latest and greatest of the distro of your choice and it's nearly as good as a brand new computer. Really need some small change in one of the apps? It will (usually) cost more than beer money but there's plenty of people ready and willing to fix it up for you.
True, but it's use was banned decades ago. We are still cleaning up the mess today and will be for a while.
However China, in spite of having the benefit of learning from our mistakes and knowing very well our standards for import, is using lead paint for children's toys TODAY.
It's one thing to discover that something you've used for years is much more harmful than you thought. It's another to go ahead and use it with full knowledge of the level of harm.
And did you try to understand why it was difficult? What was it they were attached to? If outlook express crashes while they were typing an email and they then have to revert to an auto-saved draft you can see that not being that much of a big deal.
I did attempt to. Evidently it was that the icons on the buttons had minor stylistic differences and it wasn't called outlook express. And by crash, I mean corrupt the mailstore and not being able to get all of the mails (claimed to be CRITICAL) back.
And keep in mind, that wasn't an attempt to change the whole OS or any of the other software, just the email app.
Larger organizations have saved MILLIONS by switching. Maybe you have an unwanted spare million bux in your pocket, but many don't.
Yes of course some people are but saying it's the same system "on everything from a modern mainframe to a pocket watch" is just nonsense.
How so? True the tiny systems are often barebones install, but it still all comes from the same source packages, it's just a matter of which compiler is used and which arch flags are set. I use the same binary disk to install on an embedded Atom system as I do on a Desktop or server.
If they weren't getting steadily worse with no sign of awareness, I'd agree. Hopefully some prodding and making sure they can't claim ignorance in court will convince them to think about the problem.
Considering the amount of pushback I got trying to move 5 outlook express users who were losing data on a monthly basis to thunderbird where no crashes were happening, I believe I can blame the users. Personally I see very little if any difference in the interfaces of those two.
I Honestly cannot see what is so hard about Linux desktop. Significantly, people who first learn to use a computer with a Linux desktop find that the jump to windoes is nearly impossible. Interestingly, when workplaces switch to Linux and tell people there's no point in complaining because the decision is made, they get up to speed quickly enough.
It really is just a matter of what you're used to. I can use Windows if absolutely necessary but I find it clunky and awkward. OSX is somewhat better but it feels quite limited to me.
As for the system, there are people running Debian or Ubuntu on a smartphone. I have installed Debian on routers and other embedded boxes. Linux had been put on phones years before Android came out.
I'm pretty sure it won't happen tomorrow, or next year so I'm not going to run around shouting like my hair is on fire, but it should be a cheap and easily addressed problem if it is done even half right.
They didn't think people would figure out the funky sequences for bypassing the immobilizer in the ignition key either but many such sequences are well known now.
The first application I would expect would be unlock door, start car.
I'm not too worried about that one personally since I tend to make utilitarian choices in cars and so don't own the ones popular for auto theft.
Add overhead to every single write/create/rename op? I would consider that severe breakage.
You didn't say which distro you were using, but the help for mine says:
Search for Files uses the find, grep, and locate UNIX commands. By default, when performing a basic search Search for Files first uses the locate command, and then uses the slower but more thorough find command.
The case sensitivity of the search depends on your operating system. For example, on Linux, the find, grep, and locate commands support the -i option, so all searches are case-insensitive.
So you expect to be able to use a general purpose system that does accounting, astronomy, genomics, etc etc on everything from a modern mainframe to a pocket watch with NO learning whatsoever? Were you born knowing how to use Windows 7 or did you learn it?
That's what he was saying. It's not hard at all but we can't learn it for you. Even if we copied every bit of the clunky Windows interface, we'd just get sued by MS and forced to change it.
When you got old enough, did you just hop into a car and go get your license or did you have to learn to drive?
I would guess that the hammer and screwdriver have the simplest and most obvious 'user interfaces' of any tool we have today and yet I see people using them poorly all the time.
* I want my updates to install as seamlessly as possible, e.g. download and install updates in the background then let me know I need to restart (if that's the case), much like Android does;
Available for years now.
* App store for my favorite flavor, where I could sort by features, not by category;
Done years ago, though the features search could be better.
* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.
Done years ago. Put the disk in, file management window pops open.
* Make it easy to search for files and folders. Many times I copied a file or downloaded a file and I had no idea where it was, searching for it yielded no results but manually browsing around eventually found it. Y U NO SEARCH???
Done years ago. Y U NO click 'Search for files...'?
Looking at problem #1, the on-star system needs read only access to know when the airbags deploy. It needs to be able to send a start command to a computer that is attached to the bus, but does not need that connection itself. A simple serial link to a proxy/firewall would do. It needs read only access to the current GPS data for finding a stolen car. Again, let it ask the proxy.
It does not need to be actually connected to the same CAN bus as the ABS and ECU.
In actuality, OnStar should be re-designed in general. The only reason it needs to go through a centralized service is so they can collect monthly payments from you. Instead, give it a cell modem. If the airbags deploy and the driver doesn't cancel it, call 911. If the owner wants GPS location, start, or unlock, do it with a public key and SMS messages with the owner's smartphone or PC.
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I gave many examples of advantages but you don't value them. That's fine, but others do and would switch but for inertia. All those corporations stuck with XP and IE6 probably wish they could make the jump to Win7 and keep IE 6 for their internal craplications. A few years ago, they wished they could compile the latest and greatest IE for XP.
As for OSX, I have a lot less problem with it. It's not quite my cup of tea but it is my next choice after Linux. Of course it's not exactly the year of the OSX desktop in corporate America either. It remains the slightly odd choice that people have heard of on the desktop. iOS OTOH is a real contender and while not as big as Android, it has a respectable market share.
Yeah, I've got them on sped dial. I'm sure my opinion will carry a lot of weight there.
I don't approve of selling asbestos, but at least they're not sneaking it in to food and children's toys. They're selling it honestly.
It did have particulate filters and such, but no effort was made to contain the iodine and xenon.
But then it caught fire...
It's a common misconception. No more than 10% of the population is shambling radiation burned mutants.
And yet C ends up being safer because C++ deploys the airbags at random and makes you crash it....:-)
You can install bash on Windows, but only if you install the rest of Cygwin (basically a Unix userspace ported to Windows).
You can very well be stuck if you use XP. Let's say, one of those nice pre-installed machines craps out. Now, if you want consistancy, you're SOL.
With Linux, since you can mix and match, you can either install the old distro on a well chosen new machine or you can install the latest but keep all of the old userspace in a chroot for that special app that needs the old libraries.
But to each his own. You are free to pound nails with a rock if you like, but I prefer a hammer or a nailgun for that.
I think you underestimate the magnitude of user inertia. I suspect as the generation growing up to expect varied interfaces matures, they'll be more open to a Linux desktop.
It wouldn't help in this case. The shutdown is precautionary until they can determine if the problem is systematic due to a design flaw or not. In a more modular system, they would still have to shut down all of the modules until they could make the determination.
Windscale is amazing. An actual reactor where the core was open to the atmosphere (and cooled by blowing air through it!). It did remarkably little harm for such a design.
As compared to our standards today, one might expect Europe to be inhabited exclusively by shambling radiation burned mutants now.
The problem is, no matter how cheap, unless it is Free, you still get to spend money on license compliance. The very largest organizations need not worry because they likely have a very expensive site license, but anything smaller does not. And license compliance can be quite hard. Even Microsoft can't tell you exactly how many of what licenses you will need (seriously, call them 3 times, give the same description, get three mutually exclusive answers!)
If you want other benefits, there are plenty. Consider all the pain now as various organizations now have to either migrate off of XP now or cough up huge sums to maintain support for a few more years. Not a problem with a Free OS.
BTW, multiple workspaces are NICE to have. I generally use 6 (technically 5, the 6th is the one my wife uses for some quick browsing and such).
Does Windows FINALLY have a compose key? Nice if I need an ümlaut (yes, I know umlaut is not spelled with an umlaut)
As for the system portability, I explicitly stated that it includes the userspace software.
Yes, at the pocket watch scale you must make concessions to the limited power of the platform and the limited UI, but the standard cli utilities work just fine. The GUI stuff needs a bit more oomph than a pocket watch can provide but it does scale from small SBCs that can be attached to the back of a monitor on up to a z system. That's a mainframe, not supercomputer, BTW. It does all work fine on a supercomputer though (it's quite common to install the GUI on the master node and login nodes).
Another nice thing with the Linux GUI is that even on a multi-user system, each user can have the desktop he/she wants. I can select xfce, you can have Gnome3, someone else can have KDE. It's a good thing too. You might have noticed that many people consider the changes made for Gnome 3 akin to pissing on the Mona Lisa. No problem, just pick a different desktop. Still not a problem is another user of the same system is a Gnome 3 true believer.
While Windows has made great progress in stability and durability, it still has a habit of periodically crapping it's pants such that a re-install is the best answer.
In cases where something goes wrong (like a user error that runs the load average up will over 100), Linux can likely be recovered through the CLI or even a serial console. Yes, that's more often called for in a server, but in Linux the difference between server and workstation is just a matter of which packages you choose to install.
Install Windows and you have an OS. Install a Linux Distro and you have a huge variety of software to choose from. Office suite, image editing/processing, genomics, etc all there and part of the official distro.
While a typical user may not be comfortable on the command line, it is there for the power user in Linux. And I don't mean the crappy DOS shell, I mean a choice of feature-full shells each speaking a Turing complete script language.
You can mix and match as needed. Usually NetworkManager is a good choice for desktop users. But if not, run something else instead, use the older configuration system, a custom script, or manually configure. No need to reboot.
All that and nobody can force me to 'upgrade' if I don't want to. And nobody shoves the cup under my nose if I *DO* want to. Know that 'old' Windows box that can't run Win7? Install the latest and greatest of the distro of your choice and it's nearly as good as a brand new computer. Really need some small change in one of the apps? It will (usually) cost more than beer money but there's plenty of people ready and willing to fix it up for you.
True, but it's use was banned decades ago. We are still cleaning up the mess today and will be for a while.
However China, in spite of having the benefit of learning from our mistakes and knowing very well our standards for import, is using lead paint for children's toys TODAY.
It's one thing to discover that something you've used for years is much more harmful than you thought. It's another to go ahead and use it with full knowledge of the level of harm.
And did you try to understand why it was difficult? What was it they were attached to? If outlook express crashes while they were typing an email and they then have to revert to an auto-saved draft you can see that not being that much of a big deal.
I did attempt to. Evidently it was that the icons on the buttons had minor stylistic differences and it wasn't called outlook express. And by crash, I mean corrupt the mailstore and not being able to get all of the mails (claimed to be CRITICAL) back.
And keep in mind, that wasn't an attempt to change the whole OS or any of the other software, just the email app.
Larger organizations have saved MILLIONS by switching. Maybe you have an unwanted spare million bux in your pocket, but many don't.
Yes of course some people are but saying it's the same system "on everything from a modern mainframe to a pocket watch" is just nonsense.
How so? True the tiny systems are often barebones install, but it still all comes from the same source packages, it's just a matter of which compiler is used and which arch flags are set. I use the same binary disk to install on an embedded Atom system as I do on a Desktop or server.
How fortunate I don't have OnStar, remote unlock, or remote start capability.
That's because after universal garage remotes hit the streets, they toughened security a bit.
If they weren't getting steadily worse with no sign of awareness, I'd agree. Hopefully some prodding and making sure they can't claim ignorance in court will convince them to think about the problem.
Then it will likely be OK.
Considering the amount of pushback I got trying to move 5 outlook express users who were losing data on a monthly basis to thunderbird where no crashes were happening, I believe I can blame the users. Personally I see very little if any difference in the interfaces of those two.
I Honestly cannot see what is so hard about Linux desktop. Significantly, people who first learn to use a computer with a Linux desktop find that the jump to windoes is nearly impossible. Interestingly, when workplaces switch to Linux and tell people there's no point in complaining because the decision is made, they get up to speed quickly enough.
It really is just a matter of what you're used to. I can use Windows if absolutely necessary but I find it clunky and awkward. OSX is somewhat better but it feels quite limited to me.
As for the system, there are people running Debian or Ubuntu on a smartphone. I have installed Debian on routers and other embedded boxes. Linux had been put on phones years before Android came out.
I'm pretty sure it won't happen tomorrow, or next year so I'm not going to run around shouting like my hair is on fire, but it should be a cheap and easily addressed problem if it is done even half right.
They didn't think people would figure out the funky sequences for bypassing the immobilizer in the ignition key either but many such sequences are well known now.
The first application I would expect would be unlock door, start car.
I'm not too worried about that one personally since I tend to make utilitarian choices in cars and so don't own the ones popular for auto theft.
Add overhead to every single write /create/rename op? I would consider that severe breakage.
You didn't say which distro you were using, but the help for mine says:
Search for Files uses the find, grep, and locate UNIX commands. By default, when performing a basic search Search for Files first uses the locate command, and then uses the slower but more thorough find command.
The case sensitivity of the search depends on your operating system. For example, on Linux, the find, grep, and locate commands support the -i option, so all searches are case-insensitive.
Which would be the right thing.
Odd, I haven't had that problem.
If you were using (possibly indirectly) the locate program, it only indexes once a day by default.
No, I mean someone got in through the OnStar, the back seat entertainment system, or on and on and disabled the brakes while I was at speed.
I have seen people who have been using a hammer poorly for years.
They let the apparent simplicity of the interface fool them is all. I have seen the same thing with people using the Windows UI inefficiently.
I said nothing about their intelligence in general, just that they hadn't learned to use the tool well.
How is it Linux's fault you searched for a file that wasn't there?
So you expect to be able to use a general purpose system that does accounting, astronomy, genomics, etc etc on everything from a modern mainframe to a pocket watch with NO learning whatsoever? Were you born knowing how to use Windows 7 or did you learn it?
That's what he was saying. It's not hard at all but we can't learn it for you. Even if we copied every bit of the clunky Windows interface, we'd just get sued by MS and forced to change it.
When you got old enough, did you just hop into a car and go get your license or did you have to learn to drive?
I would guess that the hammer and screwdriver have the simplest and most obvious 'user interfaces' of any tool we have today and yet I see people using them poorly all the time.
* I want my updates to install as seamlessly as possible, e.g. download and install updates in the background then let me know I need to restart (if that's the case), much like Android does;
Available for years now.
* App store for my favorite flavor, where I could sort by features, not by category;
Done years ago, though the features search could be better.
* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.
Done years ago. Put the disk in, file management window pops open.
* Make it easy to search for files and folders. Many times I copied a file or downloaded a file and I had no idea where it was, searching for it yielded no results but manually browsing around eventually found it. Y U NO SEARCH???
Done years ago. Y U NO click 'Search for files...'?
Someone put your brakes in maintenance mode and caused a crash...
Looking at problem #1, the on-star system needs read only access to know when the airbags deploy. It needs to be able to send a start command to a computer that is attached to the bus, but does not need that connection itself. A simple serial link to a proxy/firewall would do. It needs read only access to the current GPS data for finding a stolen car. Again, let it ask the proxy.
It does not need to be actually connected to the same CAN bus as the ABS and ECU.
In actuality, OnStar should be re-designed in general. The only reason it needs to go through a centralized service is so they can collect monthly payments from you. Instead, give it a cell modem. If the airbags deploy and the driver doesn't cancel it, call 911. If the owner wants GPS location, start, or unlock, do it with a public key and SMS messages with the owner's smartphone or PC.