Sure, you have the right to say things, but that doesn't mean that you should, or that it should be deemed appropriate, acceptable, or normal. I am glad that people have the right to say stupid rude things, but I don't think we should encourage it, or be afraid to discourage it because of "ZOMG Censorship".
I have been asking for a rational reason for why some words are 'obscenities'. This is not one. This is a tautology. It's bad because it is bad. This is not a good reason.
What does it matter why? Why do we call a dog a dog? Why do we call a cat a cat?
What do you hope to learn, change, discuss, discover, or do if you find out why each and every swear word became categorized as such? What difference does it make?
Lets take "Bitch" as an arbitray example. It used to be used only to describe a female dog. It began to be used to compare women to dogs in heat, an unfavorable comparison implying that the women has no virtue or self control, and that she is worth only enough to be compared to a "lesser" animal. Eventaully some of that meaning is lost, and over time becomes a negative word you can call a woman just to be mean.::Source:: My imagination, but its probably close to reality, in several languages.
So, there's a possible explaination for one word. How does that factor in to your worldview? Does a bit of historical perspecitive in the negative use of the word change your mind on anything? Does it enlighten you? Do you take that as a better answer than "Its only bad because the abstract notion of "society" says its bad"?
Who decided and how what words would have each good/bad meaning? I guess I can only answer that with another question and then a guess- who decided what any word means?
I would suppose that its gradual over time, and different in different communities. Thats how language evolves after all. I would suppose that "ass" would have been pretty offensive 20 years ago to my mother. I doubt it is today. "Gay" would have been a fine way to describe my happy-go-lucky grandfather 50 years ago, but he'd not appreciate it today. Telling a 15 year old on CS that you totally "own" them would be normal. Saying the same thing to someone who's father or grandfather was a slave not be as appropriate.
I wasn't specifically asking about your personal habits when I asked why not say poo vs shit, it was more of a "lets explore why social conventions make this uncommon".
I suppose if I take a step back and look at the larger picture of the thread, profanity, offensiveness and community I come up with this: In MMO games, (or any community) it seems more and more that people are unwilling to communicate with their audience in mind, or with a total disregard for their audience. Players tend to expect the listener to accept their personal values, but show an unwillingness to show that same respect in return. In our conversation, I have no problem saying "shit" repeatedly, because I know(or at least strongly presume) that it doesn't offend you, and in the context of our conversation is unlikely to offend or irritate anyone who passes by. If I were having the same debate in a church group, I would phrase things differently, because I would want to show respect for my listeners.
The argument over swearwords really muddies the topic the article tries to address. It's not just about swearing, its about respect and maturity (I'm not saying swearing is immature, but if I have to hear one more joke about chuck norris or one more 14 year old's fantasies about Jessica Alba...) Programmers can add filters for swear words, because those are easy, but how do you add a filter for "idiotic" or "generally rude" or "can't seem to type v0w3ls". I hate the suggestion (that I see often, not from you) to "Just turn on the filter, or ignore the rude people". It implies that requiring respect is irrational or unrealistic. Players shouldn't have to opt out of rudeness and disprespect, online gaming culture should include courtesy by default.
General rule: if a=b and b=c, then a=c. Therefore: If 'poo' isn't offensive to you, and 'shit' is equivalent to 'poo', then 'shit' should not be offensive to you. There is no inherent property in words which makes them 'bad'. If there is a euphamism or generally accepted substitute for the 'bad word', then it is not really bad. Check your premise, 'offended' people. By the same logic, why don't you just say poo? Does "poo" or "poop" or "poopie" have some inherent property that makes you feel childish when you use it?
Perhaps the properties are not inherent to the words, but they are present nonetheless. Language has nuance, and its important. We let words have subtle shades so that we can use them to show what kind of person we are, what kind of mood we are in, who we are addressing, or what kind of reaction we want. Bang, Fuck, Screw, Make Love, Do it, Have Sex all mean the same basic thing, but they each have a more subtle meaning and people choose which word they use based on how they feel and what they want to communicate.
This isn't stupid, its important. I like that I can have one word to tell my daughter that she did a good job going poo, and another word to tell a coworker that his work looks like shit. Having a wide range of words with different positive and negative connotations lets me communicate more effectively.
If you want to argue that people shouldn't be so easily and deeply offended, go for it. But don't for a second think that all words with similar definitions should be equal.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure, you have the right to say things, but that doesn't mean that you should, or that it should be deemed appropriate, acceptable, or normal. I am glad that people have the right to say stupid rude things, but I don't think we should encourage it, or be afraid to discourage it because of "ZOMG Censorship".
What does it matter why? Why do we call a dog a dog? Why do we call a cat a cat?
What do you hope to learn, change, discuss, discover, or do if you find out why each and every swear word became categorized as such? What difference does it make?
Lets take "Bitch" as an arbitray example. It used to be used only to describe a female dog. It began to be used to compare women to dogs in heat, an unfavorable comparison implying that the women has no virtue or self control, and that she is worth only enough to be compared to a "lesser" animal. Eventaully some of that meaning is lost, and over time becomes a negative word you can call a woman just to be mean.
So, there's a possible explaination for one word. How does that factor in to your worldview? Does a bit of historical perspecitive in the negative use of the word change your mind on anything? Does it enlighten you? Do you take that as a better answer than "Its only bad because the abstract notion of "society" says its bad"?
Who decided and how what words would have each good/bad meaning? I guess I can only answer that with another question and then a guess- who decided what any word means?
I would suppose that its gradual over time, and different in different communities. Thats how language evolves after all. I would suppose that "ass" would have been pretty offensive 20 years ago to my mother. I doubt it is today. "Gay" would have been a fine way to describe my happy-go-lucky grandfather 50 years ago, but he'd not appreciate it today. Telling a 15 year old on CS that you totally "own" them would be normal. Saying the same thing to someone who's father or grandfather was a slave not be as appropriate.
I wasn't specifically asking about your personal habits when I asked why not say poo vs shit, it was more of a "lets explore why social conventions make this uncommon".
I suppose if I take a step back and look at the larger picture of the thread, profanity, offensiveness and community I come up with this: In MMO games, (or any community) it seems more and more that people are unwilling to communicate with their audience in mind, or with a total disregard for their audience. Players tend to expect the listener to accept their personal values, but show an unwillingness to show that same respect in return. In our conversation, I have no problem saying "shit" repeatedly, because I know(or at least strongly presume) that it doesn't offend you, and in the context of our conversation is unlikely to offend or irritate anyone who passes by. If I were having the same debate in a church group, I would phrase things differently, because I would want to show respect for my listeners.
The argument over swearwords really muddies the topic the article tries to address. It's not just about swearing, its about respect and maturity (I'm not saying swearing is immature, but if I have to hear one more joke about chuck norris or one more 14 year old's fantasies about Jessica Alba...) Programmers can add filters for swear words, because those are easy, but how do you add a filter for "idiotic" or "generally rude" or "can't seem to type v0w3ls". I hate the suggestion (that I see often, not from you) to "Just turn on the filter, or ignore the rude people". It implies that requiring respect is irrational or unrealistic. Players shouldn't have to opt out of rudeness and disprespect, online gaming culture should include courtesy by default.
Perhaps the properties are not inherent to the words, but they are present nonetheless. Language has nuance, and its important. We let words have subtle shades so that we can use them to show what kind of person we are, what kind of mood we are in, who we are addressing, or what kind of reaction we want. Bang, Fuck, Screw, Make Love, Do it, Have Sex all mean the same basic thing, but they each have a more subtle meaning and people choose which word they use based on how they feel and what they want to communicate.
This isn't stupid, its important. I like that I can have one word to tell my daughter that she did a good job going poo, and another word to tell a coworker that his work looks like shit. Having a wide range of words with different positive and negative connotations lets me communicate more effectively.
If you want to argue that people shouldn't be so easily and deeply offended, go for it. But don't for a second think that all words with similar definitions should be equal.
Check your premise, it's double plus un good.