All she's doing is going with the Saturn model (the car). I had a Saturn, it had a huge number of fans who really loved it. But they offered one price, take it or leave it, no negotiating. Plenty of people though told us that we were foolish, that anyone could get a better offer by negotiating. But so what, maybe we paid a bit more, but the advantage that made it worth the extra money was that we did not have to negotiate! These pushy people who insist on negotiating don't seem to realize just how deeply negotiating is hated by others (especially negotiating for an auto).
So have the Saturn model for hiring. If someone doesn't like it then they can go apply to the companies that do Honda hiring.
Do you get unfair offers? Offers below your current salary even after they've asked you want that salary is? Or do they offer a percentage above your current pay and you are just hoping to get a bit more by being pushy?
True, I only once had 2 offers at the same time. Normally you get an offer and you have a deadline to accept, either explicitly stated in the offer or else it's assumed (coming back a month or two later is too late). I have gotten call for interviews a few days before starting a job I've already accepted, and even a month after starting I've gotten a call for an interview... Companies don't work at the same rate and they don't sync up with your hiring plans.
Hey, if male CEOs are allowed to make whatever policies they want, then why can't women CEOs do the same thing? If you don't like it then don't apply for the job.
Giving the same opportunities is NOT equality! Giving the same opportunities means that those in power stay in power. We freed the slaves in the US but there was not sudden equality despite people saying "you're free now, take advantage of those opportunities", it took another 100 years of oppression before the laws got around to *start* to correct things. A real equality of opportunities means similar levels of education from comparable schools, comparable economic backgrounds, and so forth.
In my experience some companies will ask once, "what is your current salary", or "what would you like as a salary". Then I get an offer that's a small to medium bump up above that. That's not really negotiation.
Games of chicken are easy to lose. I've found that those who claim to be good negotiators (such as with buying a new car) also tend to be somewhat annoying as well; aggressive, boisterous, high ego, self centered, etc. They're not afraid to lose that game of chicken, and indeed they are treating it like some sporting contest.
Negotiating is not just talking. Negotiating a series of demands. Some people are good at this, these people seem to be strong extroverts, they don't mind if others see them as assholes, they are not afraid to stand up and say something loudly. The used car sales types, except that they're on both ends.
Meanwhile if there's a fair offer given then I tend to take it. I don't know if I can get more, I don't know if the hiring manager expended a lot of effort to get me a good salary and my asking for even more could be an insult. I don't know the average pay for everyone else in that department to be able to judge. If I negotiate aggressively then maybe they start to see me as a troublemaker. I have everything to lose if they turn me down, they have nothing to lose.
If I did negotiate and get a much larger salary than someone with the same skills as me, isn't that unfair and selfish?
Of course, if someone asks me what I would like as a starting salary, I'll give an answer. And they rarely ask me that anyway, usually they ask my current salary and then the offer is a bump up over that. But that's not negotiation.
I've never negotiated. I have no idea how. I get an offer and take it or leave it. Is there any other choice? The only time I turned down an offer because I had a second one they made no attempt to woo me back even though they claimed to be disappointed that I turned them down. I just don't have that ruthlessness skill I guess.
The only time I did this wasn't really a negotiation. It was with the recruiter (a bad one) when I said I could not afford to relocate to silicon valley at my current salary, and he seemed to think that I was creating an extra hardship for him.
I think the no negotiation is fine. Why should someone with less qualifications make more than me just by having a huge ego and demanding more money?
No the "X spaces is always right" is the team's choice. The team decides what the indentation style should be, not the individual developer, and certainly not the tool.
The problem is technically avoidable if editors never inserted tabs in the first place! And it's not hard, most editors that allow changing tab settings also allow replacing tabs with spaces.
Ie, just because you pressed the tab key does not mean that the editor is required to stick in a tab; this is analogous to pressing the control-A key and not having a control-A inserted into your code. In most editors "tab" means to indent the line, and that indentation can be done with spaces.
Python did not invent that style by the way. And the indentation is not even a tiny problem if only we could convince all the junior and trainee programmers to stop using tabs. Even before Python was even imagined we had long learned that tabs are evil.
But not everything is configured identically. There are many tools that will look at and display code other than your editor. You will share that code with many people hopefully. Trying to get everyone to agree on the same tab stop setting is futile. Thus you will get back a display from a static analysis tool that uses a different tab setting than your editor does and it will look ugly, or someone will email you a snippet of code and it will look ugly because it doesn't have the same tab settings. Those problems occur much less often when using spaces, because a space is always one space.
Spaces takes zero effort on your part except to customize the editor one time and tell it to never use tabs. If you can spend the time changing the tab setting in your editor then you can spend the same amount of time configuring to not use tabs. If you can't see the differences between tabs and spaces in the code, then why not just always use spaces and solve all the problems.
If it is shared code, then ALWAYS suck it up. If you're in a team then ALWAYS abide by the team's coding standards even if you disagree with them.
An editor should never automatically convert the spaces/tabs in a file without you telling it to do so, that is just broken behavior. If your job is to add one line to a 10,000 line file, you should not convert it all and then check it into source code control. That is anti social and passive aggressive behavior.
The problem is that you never get a chance to hire interns and junior devs this way. It often seems that the most junior team members who are the most adamant that their personal style is superior to all others, which very often includes a preference for tabs. But the junior people are important: without them there is no one to do the grunt work, and no one who can become experienced over time.
It does actually affect the team. Everyone needs to use the exact same tab settings or else the code looks different. It's utterly painful to view some code where someone is tab-happy and assumes one tab stop is two characters and then uses deeply indented conditionals: your teammates should never be forced maximize the size of a window just to view your code. Especially if you change tabs settings within a single file (and I swear that idiots actually do this). Not all developers use the same editor, not all methods of viewing the code use the same tab settings either; paginators, printers, source code control, static analysis tools, and so forth, may all have different ideas about tabs than you used in your editor.
Be nice to your teammates, because no one's personal style preferences are more important than getting along as a team and getting stuff done.
I find it hilarious that some programmers who use variables names like lpszNameOfFunctorFactoryBuilder will then turn around and use tabs to save a handful of bytes.
If code is to be properly commented then should take far far more kilobytes than a few extra spaces.
Even in the old days, people wasted characters though. Look at COBOL, wasting so much space on the IDENTIFICATION DIVISION and whatnot. I think the early Unix code stands out as being especially parsimonious about typing extra characters. Most things were somewhat in the middle between the extremes.
Spaces are superior, simple enough. The main reason is that spaces are always spaces. For a given font (fixed with only, none of this variable width crap), spaces are always the same width. Tabs however may count for 2, 3, 4, 8, or some random number of characters. There is *NO* standard for what a tab is supposed to be. Devs with no sense of style will ignore any existing tab settings in the file they are editing and instead use their own, and it is relatively common to find source code that can not even bother to stick to the same tab settings throughout. But spaces always work.
In a good IDE and edtior, a tab key will *always* indent the correct amount rather than inserting a single hard tab. An IDE that does not properly indent code is worthless. So there should never be any correlation between a tab key press and the number of spaces/tabs inserted into the code. If it doesn't work, then stop coding with notepad. Saving fewer bytes is irrelevant; it may have been useful when we were using teletypes, but that was back when people tried to comment their code as little as possible and use use 5 character function names.
And besides, tabs often screw up languages that are indentation sentitive, like Occam, Python, etc.
Note especially with the survey that with higher experience the devs preferred spaces are preferred over tabs while those with lesser experience preferred tabs over spaces. Experience is the voice in your head that says "ain't got enough time left being alive to waste it being stupid."
Because that eliminates fandom. I think it's great the GCC and LLVM are competing. But others feel that there must be teams and that they have to support their team (rah rah rah!).
When it comes to the anti-SJ people, all humor is surgically removed at birth so that they're more fully able to comprehend just how insidious racism and sexism against white males is.
But even if a company does not pay, the customer/reviewers tend to give either highly glowing reviews or highly scathing reviews. The middle ground is very sparse.
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All she's doing is going with the Saturn model (the car). I had a Saturn, it had a huge number of fans who really loved it. But they offered one price, take it or leave it, no negotiating. Plenty of people though told us that we were foolish, that anyone could get a better offer by negotiating. But so what, maybe we paid a bit more, but the advantage that made it worth the extra money was that we did not have to negotiate! These pushy people who insist on negotiating don't seem to realize just how deeply negotiating is hated by others (especially negotiating for an auto).
So have the Saturn model for hiring. If someone doesn't like it then they can go apply to the companies that do Honda hiring.
Do you get unfair offers? Offers below your current salary even after they've asked you want that salary is? Or do they offer a percentage above your current pay and you are just hoping to get a bit more by being pushy?
True, I only once had 2 offers at the same time. Normally you get an offer and you have a deadline to accept, either explicitly stated in the offer or else it's assumed (coming back a month or two later is too late). I have gotten call for interviews a few days before starting a job I've already accepted, and even a month after starting I've gotten a call for an interview... Companies don't work at the same rate and they don't sync up with your hiring plans.
Hey, if male CEOs are allowed to make whatever policies they want, then why can't women CEOs do the same thing? If you don't like it then don't apply for the job.
Giving the same opportunities is NOT equality! Giving the same opportunities means that those in power stay in power. We freed the slaves in the US but there was not sudden equality despite people saying "you're free now, take advantage of those opportunities", it took another 100 years of oppression before the laws got around to *start* to correct things. A real equality of opportunities means similar levels of education from comparable schools, comparable economic backgrounds, and so forth.
So when women duplicate the personality traits of males they become feminazis?
In my experience some companies will ask once, "what is your current salary", or "what would you like as a salary". Then I get an offer that's a small to medium bump up above that. That's not really negotiation.
Games of chicken are easy to lose. I've found that those who claim to be good negotiators (such as with buying a new car) also tend to be somewhat annoying as well; aggressive, boisterous, high ego, self centered, etc. They're not afraid to lose that game of chicken, and indeed they are treating it like some sporting contest.
Negotiating is not just talking. Negotiating a series of demands. Some people are good at this, these people seem to be strong extroverts, they don't mind if others see them as assholes, they are not afraid to stand up and say something loudly. The used car sales types, except that they're on both ends.
Meanwhile if there's a fair offer given then I tend to take it. I don't know if I can get more, I don't know if the hiring manager expended a lot of effort to get me a good salary and my asking for even more could be an insult. I don't know the average pay for everyone else in that department to be able to judge. If I negotiate aggressively then maybe they start to see me as a troublemaker. I have everything to lose if they turn me down, they have nothing to lose.
If I did negotiate and get a much larger salary than someone with the same skills as me, isn't that unfair and selfish?
Of course, if someone asks me what I would like as a starting salary, I'll give an answer. And they rarely ask me that anyway, usually they ask my current salary and then the offer is a bump up over that. But that's not negotiation.
I've never negotiated. I have no idea how. I get an offer and take it or leave it. Is there any other choice? The only time I turned down an offer because I had a second one they made no attempt to woo me back even though they claimed to be disappointed that I turned them down. I just don't have that ruthlessness skill I guess.
The only time I did this wasn't really a negotiation. It was with the recruiter (a bad one) when I said I could not afford to relocate to silicon valley at my current salary, and he seemed to think that I was creating an extra hardship for him.
I think the no negotiation is fine. Why should someone with less qualifications make more than me just by having a huge ego and demanding more money?
No the "X spaces is always right" is the team's choice. The team decides what the indentation style should be, not the individual developer, and certainly not the tool.
The problem is technically avoidable if editors never inserted tabs in the first place! And it's not hard, most editors that allow changing tab settings also allow replacing tabs with spaces.
Ie, just because you pressed the tab key does not mean that the editor is required to stick in a tab; this is analogous to pressing the control-A key and not having a control-A inserted into your code. In most editors "tab" means to indent the line, and that indentation can be done with spaces.
Python did not invent that style by the way. And the indentation is not even a tiny problem if only we could convince all the junior and trainee programmers to stop using tabs. Even before Python was even imagined we had long learned that tabs are evil.
But not everything is configured identically. There are many tools that will look at and display code other than your editor. You will share that code with many people hopefully. Trying to get everyone to agree on the same tab stop setting is futile. Thus you will get back a display from a static analysis tool that uses a different tab setting than your editor does and it will look ugly, or someone will email you a snippet of code and it will look ugly because it doesn't have the same tab settings. Those problems occur much less often when using spaces, because a space is always one space.
Spaces takes zero effort on your part except to customize the editor one time and tell it to never use tabs. If you can spend the time changing the tab setting in your editor then you can spend the same amount of time configuring to not use tabs. If you can't see the differences between tabs and spaces in the code, then why not just always use spaces and solve all the problems.
If it is shared code, then ALWAYS suck it up. If you're in a team then ALWAYS abide by the team's coding standards even if you disagree with them.
An editor should never automatically convert the spaces/tabs in a file without you telling it to do so, that is just broken behavior. If your job is to add one line to a 10,000 line file, you should not convert it all and then check it into source code control. That is anti social and passive aggressive behavior.
The important word there is "random".
The problem is that you never get a chance to hire interns and junior devs this way. It often seems that the most junior team members who are the most adamant that their personal style is superior to all others, which very often includes a preference for tabs. But the junior people are important: without them there is no one to do the grunt work, and no one who can become experienced over time.
It does actually affect the team. Everyone needs to use the exact same tab settings or else the code looks different. It's utterly painful to view some code where someone is tab-happy and assumes one tab stop is two characters and then uses deeply indented conditionals: your teammates should never be forced maximize the size of a window just to view your code. Especially if you change tabs settings within a single file (and I swear that idiots actually do this). Not all developers use the same editor, not all methods of viewing the code use the same tab settings either; paginators, printers, source code control, static analysis tools, and so forth, may all have different ideas about tabs than you used in your editor.
Be nice to your teammates, because no one's personal style preferences are more important than getting along as a team and getting stuff done.
I find it hilarious that some programmers who use variables names like lpszNameOfFunctorFactoryBuilder will then turn around and use tabs to save a handful of bytes.
If code is to be properly commented then should take far far more kilobytes than a few extra spaces.
Even in the old days, people wasted characters though. Look at COBOL, wasting so much space on the IDENTIFICATION DIVISION and whatnot. I think the early Unix code stands out as being especially parsimonious about typing extra characters. Most things were somewhat in the middle between the extremes.
Spaces are superior, simple enough. The main reason is that spaces are always spaces. For a given font (fixed with only, none of this variable width crap), spaces are always the same width. Tabs however may count for 2, 3, 4, 8, or some random number of characters. There is *NO* standard for what a tab is supposed to be. Devs with no sense of style will ignore any existing tab settings in the file they are editing and instead use their own, and it is relatively common to find source code that can not even bother to stick to the same tab settings throughout. But spaces always work.
In a good IDE and edtior, a tab key will *always* indent the correct amount rather than inserting a single hard tab. An IDE that does not properly indent code is worthless. So there should never be any correlation between a tab key press and the number of spaces/tabs inserted into the code. If it doesn't work, then stop coding with notepad. Saving fewer bytes is irrelevant; it may have been useful when we were using teletypes, but that was back when people tried to comment their code as little as possible and use use 5 character function names.
And besides, tabs often screw up languages that are indentation sentitive, like Occam, Python, etc.
Note especially with the survey that with higher experience the devs preferred spaces are preferred over tabs while those with lesser experience preferred tabs over spaces. Experience is the voice in your head that says "ain't got enough time left being alive to waste it being stupid."
This is why the next version will be Windows 12, as version 11 will be skipped altogether.
It's sad. It's time for me to give another donation to the fund to help the humor impaired.
Because that eliminates fandom. I think it's great the GCC and LLVM are competing. But others feel that there must be teams and that they have to support their team (rah rah rah!).
When it comes to the anti-SJ people, all humor is surgically removed at birth so that they're more fully able to comprehend just how insidious racism and sexism against white males is.
Don't be silly. Some of us are CFOs too.
But even if a company does not pay, the customer/reviewers tend to give either highly glowing reviews or highly scathing reviews. The middle ground is very sparse.