So is this just the bit torrent that is throttled or everything? Reason I ask is most satellite providers have an average ping time of 100ms+ (it takes roughly 70ms depending on orbit altitude and relative azimuth for the signal to travel either to or from the ground to the satellite). If your provider is dropping packet priority for just your torrents, then considering the traffic most inet satellites carry during the day I can see why your packets would just sit there indefinitely waiting to be routed until the ttl kills them. If it's everything then I'd call and inquire with your isp about their inability to provide even basic service during the peak hours of the day. Remember ttl doesn't care what your ping times are, so if they're really long the packet just dies and ceases to exist before it ever arrives on the other end.
Yeah, I wasn't really thinking too well that day. I knew the 1024 because of base 2/binary incremental storage. That's what I get for trying to do math in my head after working nearly 30hrs straight. Being on call sucks, till you see the paycheck! LOL!
I know the prioritization happens at the router level at my local system. We are routed down through atl afterwards before jumping the backbone there. Whether everything is normallized before insertion into the backbone I'm not completely sure. I have my suspicions, and having talked to some counterparts within other isp's and knowing that their basically using the same equipment/schemes we are, it is likely that the packets are never normalized back to the standard priority level.
Who says we still want Common Carrier?
The truth is infrastructure costs money. If you want a true 1.5Mb unlimited connection, then go pay the $700 a month or so for a T1. If you want more than that then look into the cost of a T3 or so. If you want cheap bandwidth then you're going to have to deal with whatever we (not just comcast, but all residential ISP's) are willing to provide. We all basically operate the same way. We buy/build to support X bandwidth. Yes that is a projected number based on penetration and population density. Then you can model the peak capacity and average capacity based on those numbers. Once you have the model you build spare/unused bandwidth into the plan and get it approved. Then comes the budgeting of the equipment, manhours, and infrastructure to support the bandwidth. Now that's out of the way lets assume the build happens overnight. Oops, capacity alarm that was set at 85% was on from 6pm till 10pm. Peak was at 96%. Put that node/whatever on watchlist. If node continues to reach/exceed capacity alarms you start over with the design/build process to split or segment that node into smaller more managable units. What does slowing down bit torrent traffic do? Nothing to the overall bandwidth used. It merely distributes it accross a longer time period so as not to incapacitate the network at times of high usage. If you really want to get into the legal aspects of it, it's perfectly legal for us to manage our network that way, and EVERY residential provider operates in the same manner. I've worked for both cable and telephone companies and have seen this first hand from the inside. Read your contract and then figure out how you're not in breach of your agreement before sueing us for fraud or false advertising. I'm sure our high priced lawyer teams that wrote it fully understanding how the backside of it all works made sure that there is no garuntee of those speeds, especially sustained ones.
Once again...if you don't like it go pay for a T1/T3 or even go with DS/OC if you're really rich and up for it!
Yes you can have residential TV and a business inet at a single address. It happens all the time really. There are a bunch of telecommuters and/or home office people that do just that. It does solve the server problem, but it wouldn't solve the bit torrent throttling persay.
LOL! It depends on what you term overselling the bandwidth. If you mean selling 1.6 Gb's of service in a 1Gb pipe, then yes they are. If you think you can go to ATT or any other ISP and not have the same problem, You're wrong! All ISP's buy bulk and sell X% over bulk purchased knowing that average capacity and peak rms capacity are considerably less than the 1Gb pipe for example. The difference between the two is where you hit the pipe. Cable hits normally two pipes: the one for your fiber node, then the one where all the fibers are combined and routed. DSL in most cases is very similar but with one less pipe. Problem is DSL technology hits the wall at around 6Mbs. They're struggling and having to use two twisted pair to get the 6Mbs. So essentially they have 1 less pipe, but the pipe from the customer to the big one is really small. Cable has an extra pipe, but even with a bigger pipe they have more traffic in that pipe. Now would you want to drive one a one lane gravel road where the max speed is 60, or be on the autobahn where there are occasional traffic jams, but most of the time be zooming along is well above and beyond what the gravel road could ever hope to carry you?
**Note: It doesn't affect all P2P traffic, just sustained traffic that meets the criteria set in the piece of hardware that's inspecting. That's the reasoning for allowing short bursts of seeding, but nothing sustained.
I would know the answer as to how and why they do it because I help set up the hardware that does it locally for my system. It doesn't affect all markets nor does it affect customers all of the time. They can do it because of the no server clause in the contract. It doesn't however have to be determined by someone that you're running a server. How it works is there is an actual piece of hardware that is placed into the routing of packets. It inspects the header bits of the packets and determines if the packets being sent are p2p or simply network/server traffic. If it is p2p traffic then the routing priority level for those packets matching those identified are dropped by one level. This is exactly the same way the voip works, but in opposite manner so as voip packets have a higher routing priority than any of the other user traffic. This being said it leaves us with a packet routing priority from top to bottom of user generated traffic looking like: VOIP, Network/HTTP, P2P. Looking at this it's easy to see why some people would experience 'throttling' as it's being called. Unless you can figure out a way to bypass traffic being generated to or from a bunch of private (ie individual ip's not registered with DNS)then your out of luck. This does still leave newsgroups untouched however since the traffic is being routed through a registered server. One more thing. Many of the Comcast systems are implementing what they have termed 'Powerboost'. It doesn't cost anything and it's being done at the server/CMTS level. There is no way to sign up for it or anything. It's either on, off, or hasn't been implemented in your area yet. The rollout of this has been detemined by network capacity for whatever fiber node you're being fed out of. In my current location we've implemented it in appx 90% of our nodes on the downstream and 60% of the nodes on our upstream channels. What this does is allows a user trying to push through large files use of the unallocated bandwidth above and beyond their provisioning rate. Some people here are consistently seeing more than 20Mb/s downstream and 2.4Mb/s per second upstream (being provisioned for 6Mb downstream and 512k upstream). However the servers will not allow that rate to be sustained. It holds a small percentage of the bandwidth available for other demand and keeps the total usage under X% capacity or else it will suspend the additional bandwidth to that user. ****Take notice I didn't say it allows the user to make use of all or even most of the unallocated bandwidth, but just more than they are provisioned for. This is being tightly controlled and regulated to make sure capacity and network stability are maintained while allowing bursts of up to and over 20Mb's. I wouldn't expect to see the number much more than about 20/22 Mb's though depending on the market. Some of the higher capacity/speed markets are running more than the standard 6Mb we're running here in my market. Those people might see something a little more out of powerboost, but don't bet on it for now anyways.
Hope this helps, but I don't think it will resolve any of your difficulties any more than just an understanding would do.
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So is this just the bit torrent that is throttled or everything? Reason I ask is most satellite providers have an average ping time of 100ms+ (it takes roughly 70ms depending on orbit altitude and relative azimuth for the signal to travel either to or from the ground to the satellite). If your provider is dropping packet priority for just your torrents, then considering the traffic most inet satellites carry during the day I can see why your packets would just sit there indefinitely waiting to be routed until the ttl kills them. If it's everything then I'd call and inquire with your isp about their inability to provide even basic service during the peak hours of the day. Remember ttl doesn't care what your ping times are, so if they're really long the packet just dies and ceases to exist before it ever arrives on the other end.
Yeah, I wasn't really thinking too well that day. I knew the 1024 because of base 2/binary incremental storage. That's what I get for trying to do math in my head after working nearly 30hrs straight. Being on call sucks, till you see the paycheck! LOL!
I know the prioritization happens at the router level at my local system. We are routed down through atl afterwards before jumping the backbone there. Whether everything is normallized before insertion into the backbone I'm not completely sure. I have my suspicions, and having talked to some counterparts within other isp's and knowing that their basically using the same equipment/schemes we are, it is likely that the packets are never normalized back to the standard priority level.
LOL! I didn't care. All sorts of grammer mistakes as well, but who the hell cares anyways?
It's not 100Mb=1 terabyte. 100Mb = 12.5MB as in 12.5 Megabytes. 100MB = 1GB 100GB = 1TB or 1 Terabyte.
Most DSL providers are asymmetric as well. I've worked for two of them and the symmetrical DSL accounts are really pricey!
Isn't that what the entire thread was about? Duh!
Who says we still want Common Carrier? The truth is infrastructure costs money. If you want a true 1.5Mb unlimited connection, then go pay the $700 a month or so for a T1. If you want more than that then look into the cost of a T3 or so. If you want cheap bandwidth then you're going to have to deal with whatever we (not just comcast, but all residential ISP's) are willing to provide. We all basically operate the same way. We buy/build to support X bandwidth. Yes that is a projected number based on penetration and population density. Then you can model the peak capacity and average capacity based on those numbers. Once you have the model you build spare/unused bandwidth into the plan and get it approved. Then comes the budgeting of the equipment, manhours, and infrastructure to support the bandwidth. Now that's out of the way lets assume the build happens overnight. Oops, capacity alarm that was set at 85% was on from 6pm till 10pm. Peak was at 96%. Put that node/whatever on watchlist. If node continues to reach/exceed capacity alarms you start over with the design/build process to split or segment that node into smaller more managable units. What does slowing down bit torrent traffic do? Nothing to the overall bandwidth used. It merely distributes it accross a longer time period so as not to incapacitate the network at times of high usage. If you really want to get into the legal aspects of it, it's perfectly legal for us to manage our network that way, and EVERY residential provider operates in the same manner. I've worked for both cable and telephone companies and have seen this first hand from the inside. Read your contract and then figure out how you're not in breach of your agreement before sueing us for fraud or false advertising. I'm sure our high priced lawyer teams that wrote it fully understanding how the backside of it all works made sure that there is no garuntee of those speeds, especially sustained ones. Once again...if you don't like it go pay for a T1/T3 or even go with DS/OC if you're really rich and up for it!
Yes you can have residential TV and a business inet at a single address. It happens all the time really. There are a bunch of telecommuters and/or home office people that do just that. It does solve the server problem, but it wouldn't solve the bit torrent throttling persay.
LOL! It depends on what you term overselling the bandwidth. If you mean selling 1.6 Gb's of service in a 1Gb pipe, then yes they are. If you think you can go to ATT or any other ISP and not have the same problem, You're wrong! All ISP's buy bulk and sell X% over bulk purchased knowing that average capacity and peak rms capacity are considerably less than the 1Gb pipe for example. The difference between the two is where you hit the pipe. Cable hits normally two pipes: the one for your fiber node, then the one where all the fibers are combined and routed. DSL in most cases is very similar but with one less pipe. Problem is DSL technology hits the wall at around 6Mbs. They're struggling and having to use two twisted pair to get the 6Mbs. So essentially they have 1 less pipe, but the pipe from the customer to the big one is really small. Cable has an extra pipe, but even with a bigger pipe they have more traffic in that pipe. Now would you want to drive one a one lane gravel road where the max speed is 60, or be on the autobahn where there are occasional traffic jams, but most of the time be zooming along is well above and beyond what the gravel road could ever hope to carry you?
**Note: It doesn't affect all P2P traffic, just sustained traffic that meets the criteria set in the piece of hardware that's inspecting. That's the reasoning for allowing short bursts of seeding, but nothing sustained.
I would know the answer as to how and why they do it because I help set up the hardware that does it locally for my system. It doesn't affect all markets nor does it affect customers all of the time. They can do it because of the no server clause in the contract. It doesn't however have to be determined by someone that you're running a server. How it works is there is an actual piece of hardware that is placed into the routing of packets. It inspects the header bits of the packets and determines if the packets being sent are p2p or simply network/server traffic. If it is p2p traffic then the routing priority level for those packets matching those identified are dropped by one level. This is exactly the same way the voip works, but in opposite manner so as voip packets have a higher routing priority than any of the other user traffic. This being said it leaves us with a packet routing priority from top to bottom of user generated traffic looking like: VOIP, Network/HTTP, P2P. Looking at this it's easy to see why some people would experience 'throttling' as it's being called. Unless you can figure out a way to bypass traffic being generated to or from a bunch of private (ie individual ip's not registered with DNS)then your out of luck. This does still leave newsgroups untouched however since the traffic is being routed through a registered server. One more thing. Many of the Comcast systems are implementing what they have termed 'Powerboost'. It doesn't cost anything and it's being done at the server/CMTS level. There is no way to sign up for it or anything. It's either on, off, or hasn't been implemented in your area yet. The rollout of this has been detemined by network capacity for whatever fiber node you're being fed out of. In my current location we've implemented it in appx 90% of our nodes on the downstream and 60% of the nodes on our upstream channels. What this does is allows a user trying to push through large files use of the unallocated bandwidth above and beyond their provisioning rate. Some people here are consistently seeing more than 20Mb/s downstream and 2.4Mb/s per second upstream (being provisioned for 6Mb downstream and 512k upstream). However the servers will not allow that rate to be sustained. It holds a small percentage of the bandwidth available for other demand and keeps the total usage under X% capacity or else it will suspend the additional bandwidth to that user. ****Take notice I didn't say it allows the user to make use of all or even most of the unallocated bandwidth, but just more than they are provisioned for. This is being tightly controlled and regulated to make sure capacity and network stability are maintained while allowing bursts of up to and over 20Mb's. I wouldn't expect to see the number much more than about 20/22 Mb's though depending on the market. Some of the higher capacity/speed markets are running more than the standard 6Mb we're running here in my market. Those people might see something a little more out of powerboost, but don't bet on it for now anyways. Hope this helps, but I don't think it will resolve any of your difficulties any more than just an understanding would do.