Notice also that he avoids answering direct questions. You ask if he opposes the Fuck Christianity group, and he doesn't respond. I've been talking to him on there and he has been weaseling about, trying to find steady ground on which to censor. I wonder if he'll provide some closure to this, or retract any of the misinformation he has spread about Fuck Islam.
BTW, so that I'm not misunderstood, when I say we agree about the worth of Muslims, I am saying that they are valuable as people. They should have respect, but their ideas don't necessarily deserve respect. Is it so hard to understand that you can oppose a belief and not a person? Is it automatically hate speech when there is a curse word in the title? Can we not say anything bad about religion? Jeff, these aren't rhetorical questions. You seem to take the opposite stance that I do on each of them. Why can't you just live and let live? If you want to encourage Islam or inundate it from criticism you can do it in your own life, but you have no right to try to get others to do the same. Or more appropriately, you have that right, but it displays low class, and I hope it fails. Why don't you want attempts to censor to fail as well? You've never made a case against my group, simply calling it hate speech without any justification.
Anyway, do reply, I'd like to talk about this, so we can stop working at cross-purposes.
Why is this guy throwing his weight around? Is he trying to spread his Islamic beliefs? That's the only possible explanation for his hyperactive opposition to my group. He has more influence than he merits. His site automatically censors the word fuck when you post it there, and he hasn't responded to any of my comments, even though I'm the one that made the group and I'm here with a white flag. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Jeff, but my opposition to Islam doesn't really stop you from doing anything in your life. It just seems like you've made it a goal to stop me from saying "Fuck Islam", but you aren't really defending Islam are you? We both agree about the worth of Muslims, and we might even agree about the worth of their belief system. It seems like the only difference between us is I'm willing to say "Fuck", and you will do almost anything to stop that word from being uttered. What's so threatening about an atheist's point of view, may I ask? Why aren't you out there campaigning against the sites that say "Fuck Variable Variable" (facebook.com/group.php?gid=4042647661) , which actually qualify as hate speech. If you were I would ask you to let them be, since it really doesn't matter, and trying to keep people quiet just makes them louder.
My group, Fuck Islam is not racist. I oppose Islam if it shows up in the whitest of New Englanders or the most Hispanic of Arizona. I even oppose it on paper or online. I oppose an idea, popejeremy, and that is not a racial statement, particularly since I wish the best for Muslims. If you are going to call me racist you should at least talk to me and ask me my opinion on matters of race. I think it matters very little when it comes to potential and all the important human attributes. Skin color is unimportant. Opposing Islam is opposing something that goes deeper than skin, ideology. Because it is what is in a person's mind, not what he looks like that matters. That's why I say Fuck Islam, sir, and you should withdraw your accusations of racism immediately.
BTW, in response to "Christians and Jews commit just as many terrorist acts" you mention Timothy McVeigh, whose terrorism was politically inspired. You don't mention the massacre at Virginia Tech, which was partially due to the religious beliefs of the Christian that enacted it. Fuck Christianity too, and fuck all religions not just because belief in an afterlife causes much unneeded suffering, but because they are so far off the mark when it comes to any matter of fact.
Anyway, I started out responding to your accusations of racism, and I think I've shown my point of view. You can say that the Quran is a terrible text, and that Islam is a mistake without being racist.
Why don't you address me personally, instead of calling to the administrators? If you think I've treated Muslims unfairly by insulting their religion you could ask me how I feel about it, or express that. Instead you try to silence me, and when I respond you are nowhere to be found. Come on, Newscloud, where'd you go? You are so quick to call for censorship, but you aren't willing to address the ideas put forth by the ones you want mute. I've given you several days to respond and apologize, and nothing is forthcoming. Do you not want to debate on here? Seeing as how you've called me racist it seems you ought to at least address me.
Nevermind Jeff. You don't need to join the group. You should still apologize, but I'm still on facebook.
This is a good example of what can go wrong in censorship. The wrong people can be censored. Maybe it'd be nice not to see hate or nonsense or sadness or whatever it is you want to censor (I would censor public pot roast recipe readings because they are tedious), but the chance of you censoring a daimond in the rough (like Fuck Islam, or my other very apropos group Fuck Christianity) is just too high.
Anyway, I'm sorry your oppression campaign didn't pan out.
My facebook account was reinstated and all of my groups are in their proper place.
Free speech - 1
Religious (or just generally uptight) censorship - 0
Or if it is not a campaign against atheism is it a campaign against disagreement? Are you aware that Islam is a religion and not a race or group? Islam like Christianity or Communism is just a belief system. Your irresponsible post got me kicked off facebook, and you haven't apologized. All you have done is try to censor others. Is it because you can't simply disagree or correct their mistakes? Is it because you don't have the knowledge or class to disprove what another person is saying? You presented misinformation about my group, and I was kicked off facebook, Jeff. You should join the group "Please reinstate variable's account" and apologize.
There are several Fuck Islam groups. I'm the one that created the first. They are not necessarily hate speech. I know the one that I made was not intended to be. Anyway, why is it that you are so out to silence others? What do you get out of your campaign against atheism?
There's another one up. And some other administrator took over my old group. All that happened because of this controversy is I lost my account!
http://unm.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5876916094
My name is variable. I just joined this site after my facebook account was deleted (and I pathetically and trollfully had little to do). I wanted to say that I really don't support hate speech though I doubt I'd delete it as a system administrator. I was really sad to lose my facebook account. Anyway, my roommate started a group to request that I be reinstated on facebook. I doubt that the group will threaten to quit facebook if we don't get our way, but maybe they would consider letting me back on if jeff-cloud the author of that hate speech article joined. This is an open letter requesting that. I'm really not racist or filled with much hatred. I do dislike religion, sorry, that's the way the penny fell. Anyway, I'd really like back on, so join that group. Maybe we all could get along.
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Notice also that he avoids answering direct questions. You ask if he opposes the Fuck Christianity group, and he doesn't respond. I've been talking to him on there and he has been weaseling about, trying to find steady ground on which to censor. I wonder if he'll provide some closure to this, or retract any of the misinformation he has spread about Fuck Islam.
BTW, so that I'm not misunderstood, when I say we agree about the worth of Muslims, I am saying that they are valuable as people. They should have respect, but their ideas don't necessarily deserve respect. Is it so hard to understand that you can oppose a belief and not a person? Is it automatically hate speech when there is a curse word in the title? Can we not say anything bad about religion? Jeff, these aren't rhetorical questions. You seem to take the opposite stance that I do on each of them. Why can't you just live and let live? If you want to encourage Islam or inundate it from criticism you can do it in your own life, but you have no right to try to get others to do the same. Or more appropriately, you have that right, but it displays low class, and I hope it fails. Why don't you want attempts to censor to fail as well? You've never made a case against my group, simply calling it hate speech without any justification. Anyway, do reply, I'd like to talk about this, so we can stop working at cross-purposes.
Why is this guy throwing his weight around? Is he trying to spread his Islamic beliefs? That's the only possible explanation for his hyperactive opposition to my group. He has more influence than he merits. His site automatically censors the word fuck when you post it there, and he hasn't responded to any of my comments, even though I'm the one that made the group and I'm here with a white flag. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Jeff, but my opposition to Islam doesn't really stop you from doing anything in your life. It just seems like you've made it a goal to stop me from saying "Fuck Islam", but you aren't really defending Islam are you? We both agree about the worth of Muslims, and we might even agree about the worth of their belief system. It seems like the only difference between us is I'm willing to say "Fuck", and you will do almost anything to stop that word from being uttered. What's so threatening about an atheist's point of view, may I ask? Why aren't you out there campaigning against the sites that say "Fuck Variable Variable" (facebook.com/group.php?gid=4042647661) , which actually qualify as hate speech. If you were I would ask you to let them be, since it really doesn't matter, and trying to keep people quiet just makes them louder.
My group, Fuck Islam is not racist. I oppose Islam if it shows up in the whitest of New Englanders or the most Hispanic of Arizona. I even oppose it on paper or online. I oppose an idea, popejeremy, and that is not a racial statement, particularly since I wish the best for Muslims. If you are going to call me racist you should at least talk to me and ask me my opinion on matters of race. I think it matters very little when it comes to potential and all the important human attributes. Skin color is unimportant. Opposing Islam is opposing something that goes deeper than skin, ideology. Because it is what is in a person's mind, not what he looks like that matters. That's why I say Fuck Islam, sir, and you should withdraw your accusations of racism immediately. BTW, in response to "Christians and Jews commit just as many terrorist acts" you mention Timothy McVeigh, whose terrorism was politically inspired. You don't mention the massacre at Virginia Tech, which was partially due to the religious beliefs of the Christian that enacted it. Fuck Christianity too, and fuck all religions not just because belief in an afterlife causes much unneeded suffering, but because they are so far off the mark when it comes to any matter of fact. Anyway, I started out responding to your accusations of racism, and I think I've shown my point of view. You can say that the Quran is a terrible text, and that Islam is a mistake without being racist.
Why don't you address me personally, instead of calling to the administrators? If you think I've treated Muslims unfairly by insulting their religion you could ask me how I feel about it, or express that. Instead you try to silence me, and when I respond you are nowhere to be found. Come on, Newscloud, where'd you go? You are so quick to call for censorship, but you aren't willing to address the ideas put forth by the ones you want mute. I've given you several days to respond and apologize, and nothing is forthcoming. Do you not want to debate on here? Seeing as how you've called me racist it seems you ought to at least address me.
Nevermind Jeff. You don't need to join the group. You should still apologize, but I'm still on facebook. This is a good example of what can go wrong in censorship. The wrong people can be censored. Maybe it'd be nice not to see hate or nonsense or sadness or whatever it is you want to censor (I would censor public pot roast recipe readings because they are tedious), but the chance of you censoring a daimond in the rough (like Fuck Islam, or my other very apropos group Fuck Christianity) is just too high. Anyway, I'm sorry your oppression campaign didn't pan out.
My facebook account was reinstated and all of my groups are in their proper place. Free speech - 1 Religious (or just generally uptight) censorship - 0
Or if it is not a campaign against atheism is it a campaign against disagreement? Are you aware that Islam is a religion and not a race or group? Islam like Christianity or Communism is just a belief system. Your irresponsible post got me kicked off facebook, and you haven't apologized. All you have done is try to censor others. Is it because you can't simply disagree or correct their mistakes? Is it because you don't have the knowledge or class to disprove what another person is saying? You presented misinformation about my group, and I was kicked off facebook, Jeff. You should join the group "Please reinstate variable's account" and apologize.
There are several Fuck Islam groups. I'm the one that created the first. They are not necessarily hate speech. I know the one that I made was not intended to be. Anyway, why is it that you are so out to silence others? What do you get out of your campaign against atheism?
There's another one up. And some other administrator took over my old group. All that happened because of this controversy is I lost my account! http://unm.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5876916094
My name is variable. I just joined this site after my facebook account was deleted (and I pathetically and trollfully had little to do). I wanted to say that I really don't support hate speech though I doubt I'd delete it as a system administrator. I was really sad to lose my facebook account. Anyway, my roommate started a group to request that I be reinstated on facebook. I doubt that the group will threaten to quit facebook if we don't get our way, but maybe they would consider letting me back on if jeff-cloud the author of that hate speech article joined. This is an open letter requesting that. I'm really not racist or filled with much hatred. I do dislike religion, sorry, that's the way the penny fell. Anyway, I'd really like back on, so join that group. Maybe we all could get along.