Only if: 1) You don't have two ctrl keys on your keyboard (or have REALLY tiny hands) 2) Your windows are maximized allthetime.
Regardless, how you you usually keep track of minimized windows? (Full disclosure: I never minimize windows on my Linux systems. I add more virtual desktops if I run out of screen space.)
You don't need shader support for the KDE desktop effects.
Oh! I know! I wasn't trying to claim otherwise. IIRC, the only thing that needs shader support in the KDE desktop is the Marble plasmoid.
Don't bitch to KDE about the state of graphics drivers in X.org
Yeah. I know that the KDE folks aren't responsible for that. airlied et. al. are responsible for the radeon driver. I was asking my question on the off chance that you had some insight into their plans.
The "typelist" feature (aka "intellisense") of KDevelop 4 has been getting a *LOT* of love. Given that KDevelop 4 is a complete rewrite, and there are -IIRC- two guys working on it, its bound to not be ready yet.
The PP mentioned that the KDE interface was cluttered. I showed him a picture of how I've configured my KDE interface, and asked him what he thought of it. How is that offtopic?
Your "taskbar ordering" anecdote is interesting. OTOH, I don't understand folks who use the taskbar when they can make as many virtual desktops as they wish.:)
I've had to use knoppix to rescue a laptop, the settings for the touchpad were insane...
Being usable out of the box for every chunk of MMI hardware out there requires access to said hardware. This sort of thing is beyond the budget of most OSS developers.
Besides, what are you doing using the mouse on a Linux machine? Why aren't you emulating the behaviour of Real Men(tm) and using xterm?;)
Anyone with an ounce of sense who relied on KDE before has been given ample demonstration of just how catastrophically unreliable that project can be.
Heh. I guess I don't have an ounce of sense. I'm happy with my KDE 4.2.x and 4.SVN installations. I was happy with my KDE 3.5 installations before that. WRT the 4.0 mess: mistakes were made. What does any of that have to do with the current state of KDE 4?
Is there anything special KDE4 is doing with composite?
I'm not sure. I use the "make unfocused windows translucent", "zoom the desktop and follow the mouse cursor", and "present windows" [0] plugins. I haven't explored my options, but do know that there's a "write on the screen" one that works reasonably well.
(E.g.: You can efficiently manage windows on two large widescreen displays using just the keyboard.)
The "present windows" plugin allows one to select a window to activate with the keyboard. The windows aren't presented in a regular grid, so I'm not sure that the keyboard navigation makes much sense. The only plugin that I see in my KDE 4 installation that allows for predictable keyboard navigation of zoomed-out stuff is the "Arrange all of the virtual desktops in a grid." I have so many desktops (and so many windows on each one) that this plugin is not very useful to me.
[0] Present Windows is an expose knock-off. (In all of the "manage desktops" or "manage windows" plugins, all of unminimized windows have a "live preview" thing going for them [unless you disable it].)
but I'd rather not "fear" the upgrade should that time arrive.
Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the electrons used to distribute it. Having said that, I went from Gentoo's KDE 3.5.10 to KDE 4.2.x for all of my daily needs on my laptop and have not looked back. From what I can tell, if you turn off Desktop Effects [0], KDE 4.2.x is no slower than 3.5. If you have reasonably decent drivers for your graphics card, the Desktop Effects don't slow down the "KDE Experience" at all. There are still some missing apps (knetworkmanager, ferinstance) but they will get worked out with time.
Anyway. What do you use a realtime kernel for? Do you do realtime programming? If so, is that sort of thing much different from ordinary programming? Is there a realtime API or sumptin' that you have to use to get scheduling promises out of the kernel?
[0] Desktop Effects are generally disabled by default.
Don't change my desktop by default to some lame mode that I don't want or use...
A one time change [0] back to Folder View mode is unacceptable for you?
4.0 should never have been released as anything other than a ALPHA...
All of the documentation handed to the distro packagers indicated that 4.0 was a technology preview that was intended for developers. The story from every KDE developer was the same: "It won't eat your dog, but end-users don't want to use it." No distro maintainer *should* have been packaging it in any *stable* release. Regardless, mistakes were made. Lessons have been learned. What does all of this have to do with the current state of KDE 4, again?
I'll be keeping my 3.5.10 KDE...
That's your choice. I earnestly hope that someone decides to keep maintaining the KDE 3.x line.
(as far as I know) EVERY OTHER FUCKING DE ALLOWS [ICONS ON THE DESKTOP]!!!
IIRC, WindowMaker does not allow this. Neither does twm. (but, who cares about twm, right?);)
I believe [desktop icons] might be back in now, but in the form of a hack..?
It's not a hack. It's a fully supported option called Folder View. Check out the replies to your rant for more information.
I could right click on the panel, select Configure Panel, and get a nice window containing a bunch of things to be tweak.
What do you want to tweak that you currently cannot?
Mounting devices - It was easy before, but now we have this strange menu that doesn't provide all the functionality that the previous 3.5 implementation did.
What menu are you currently using? What functionality are you missing? Have you looked into using the Lancelot launcher and the Lancelot Parts plasmoids? (The Lancelot Parts plasmoids (LPp) let you tear off parts of the Lancelot launcher and add them to an Activity. [Yes, even a Folder View Activity can have these on it.] I use the LPp to hold a list of currently attached removable disks, so's I can easily mount and unmount them.)
but I have little hope that [KDE 4.3] will reach the 3.5 standard...
The 3.5 standard was reached after two major revisions. That's (depending on how you count it) five to eight years worth of effort. KDE 4 has been around for... almost a year and a half now? I know that this is the age of VB.NET and all, but software development hasn't gotten all that much faster. Give KDE 4 some more time. (And be sure to continue to complain when irreplaceable features go missing.)
Do you know if they fixed the Desktop "icon" delete bug?
When using the Folder View desktop Activity on KDE 4.2.1, it seems that your issue has been fixed. Copying a.desktop file (or any other file for that matter) resulted in a new file appearing in the Folder View Activity. Removing a file (.desktop or otherwise) from the FV Activity resulted in its deletion from ~/Desktop.
I'd hate to call them icons since they at the time were not, I'm not sure what they were!
I was always wondering what's the point of icons on desktop.
I don't have more than a couple of icons on my machines at home. However, at work (on the Windows machine), I have many icons on my desktop that I use to access frequently used programs and projects. If Windows shipped with a CLI shell that was worth a shit, (or Cygwin wasn't so rather slow) I would have very few icons on my work desktop.:)
...most of the time desktop is covered with opened windows so you cannot access the icons without closing or minimizing windows
You need to use multiple desktops, my man. They're even supported by official tools from ATI and nVidia.
Good to see KDE 4 got rid of them:)
KDE 4 didn't get rid of them. KDE 4 lets you *choose* to get rid of them.:)
That is - with KDE 4.1. I was wondering if this has been fixed for KDE 4.2
In all likelyhood, yes. A *LOT* has changed since KDE 4.1. If you still want to work with KDE, you *really* might wanna consider trying to get a copy of KDE 4.2 or (when it's released) KDE 4.3.
TomTom has, by agreeing to this settlement, publicly declared that they believe that the FAT patents are valid.
Perhaps. OTOH, maybe they're saying "It would cost less to pay you off and remove the code that you're whining about from our product than it would to challenge your patents in court. We'd rather save money ATM kthx."
Slashdot Mirror
so I have to click a two-handed shortcut
Only if:
1) You don't have two ctrl keys on your keyboard (or have REALLY tiny hands)
2) Your windows are maximized allthetime.
Regardless, how you you usually keep track of minimized windows? (Full disclosure: I never minimize windows on my Linux systems. I add more virtual desktops if I run out of screen space.)
You don't need shader support for the KDE desktop effects.
Oh! I know! I wasn't trying to claim otherwise. IIRC, the only thing that needs shader support in the KDE desktop is the Marble plasmoid.
Don't bitch to KDE about the state of graphics drivers in X.org
Yeah. I know that the KDE folks aren't responsible for that. airlied et. al. are responsible for the radeon driver. I was asking my question on the off chance that you had some insight into their plans.
That's a little like saying "I like gastric influenza better than pixie dust".
I've never had experience with either one, so I can't comment on that. :)
I can comment on release schedules, though.
The "typelist" feature (aka "intellisense") of KDevelop 4 has been getting a *LOT* of love. Given that KDevelop 4 is a complete rewrite, and there are -IIRC- two guys working on it, its bound to not be ready yet.
*blink*
The PP mentioned that the KDE interface was cluttered.
I showed him a picture of how I've configured my KDE interface, and asked him what he thought of it.
How is that offtopic?
*boggles*
Your "taskbar ordering" anecdote is interesting. :)
OTOH, I don't understand folks who use the taskbar when they can make as many virtual desktops as they wish.
I've had to use knoppix to rescue a laptop, the settings for the touchpad were insane...
Being usable out of the box for every chunk of MMI hardware out there requires access to said hardware. This sort of thing is beyond the budget of most OSS developers.
Besides, what are you doing using the mouse on a Linux machine? Why aren't you emulating the behaviour of Real Men(tm) and using xterm? ;)
(yeah, I want my minimized windows on the desktop so I have to minimize the other windows to unminimize them! Really, not that smart)
Are we forgetting about the "Show Widget Dashboard" keybinding? (Ctrl+F12 by default)
Anyone with an ounce of sense who relied on KDE before has been given ample demonstration of just how catastrophically unreliable that project can be.
Heh. I guess I don't have an ounce of sense. I'm happy with my KDE 4.2.x and 4.SVN installations. I was happy with my KDE 3.5 installations before that.
WRT the 4.0 mess: mistakes were made. What does any of that have to do with the current state of KDE 4?
Is there anything special KDE4 is doing with composite?
I'm not sure. I use the "make unfocused windows translucent", "zoom the desktop and follow the mouse cursor", and "present windows" [0] plugins. I haven't explored my options, but do know that there's a "write on the screen" one that works reasonably well.
(E.g.: You can efficiently manage windows on two large widescreen displays using just the keyboard.)
The "present windows" plugin allows one to select a window to activate with the keyboard. The windows aren't presented in a regular grid, so I'm not sure that the keyboard navigation makes much sense. The only plugin that I see in my KDE 4 installation that allows for predictable keyboard navigation of zoomed-out stuff is the "Arrange all of the virtual desktops in a grid." I have so many desktops (and so many windows on each one) that this plugin is not very useful to me.
[0] Present Windows is an expose knock-off. (In all of the "manage desktops" or "manage windows" plugins, all of unminimized windows have a "live preview" thing going for them [unless you disable it].)
The Open Source radeon driver has caught up though, and handles the desktop effects just fine.
Yeppers. Too bad that there is no shader support for the R420. Are the radeon devs waiting on Gallium3D and its LLVM magic?
Linux desktop users do NOT care open or closed source...
This Linux desktop user *does* care about open vs. closed source. :(
Regardless, it sounds like you shouldn't buy Kodak printers in the future.
but I'd rather not "fear" the upgrade should that time arrive.
Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the electrons used to distribute it. Having said that, I went from Gentoo's KDE 3.5.10 to KDE 4.2.x for all of my daily needs on my laptop and have not looked back. From what I can tell, if you turn off Desktop Effects [0], KDE 4.2.x is no slower than 3.5. If you have reasonably decent drivers for your graphics card, the Desktop Effects don't slow down the "KDE Experience" at all. There are still some missing apps (knetworkmanager, ferinstance) but they will get worked out with time.
Anyway. What do you use a realtime kernel for? Do you do realtime programming? If so, is that sort of thing much different from ordinary programming? Is there a realtime API or sumptin' that you have to use to get scheduling promises out of the kernel?
[0] Desktop Effects are generally disabled by default.
I like the KDE release schedule better.
*wishes that he could banninate the phrase "sane defaults"*
Your sane defaults are not my sane defaults.
Regardless, there still is work to be done WRT configuration dialogs.
Don't change my desktop by default to some lame mode that I don't want or use...
A one time change [0] back to Folder View mode is unacceptable for you?
4.0 should never have been released as anything other than a ALPHA...
All of the documentation handed to the distro packagers indicated that 4.0 was a technology preview that was intended for developers. The story from every KDE developer was the same: "It won't eat your dog, but end-users don't want to use it." No distro maintainer *should* have been packaging it in any *stable* release. Regardless, mistakes were made. Lessons have been learned. What does all of this have to do with the current state of KDE 4, again?
I'll be keeping my 3.5.10 KDE...
That's your choice. I earnestly hope that someone decides to keep maintaining the KDE 3.x line.
[0] Per user, per machine, natch.
(as far as I know) EVERY OTHER FUCKING DE ALLOWS [ICONS ON THE DESKTOP]!!!
IIRC, WindowMaker does not allow this. Neither does twm. (but, who cares about twm, right?) ;)
I believe [desktop icons] might be back in now, but in the form of a hack..?
It's not a hack. It's a fully supported option called Folder View. Check out the replies to your rant for more information.
I could right click on the panel, select Configure Panel, and get a nice window containing a bunch of things to be tweak.
What do you want to tweak that you currently cannot?
Mounting devices - It was easy before, but now we have this strange menu that doesn't provide all the functionality that the previous 3.5 implementation did.
What menu are you currently using?
What functionality are you missing?
Have you looked into using the Lancelot launcher and the Lancelot Parts plasmoids? (The Lancelot Parts plasmoids (LPp) let you tear off parts of the Lancelot launcher and add them to an Activity. [Yes, even a Folder View Activity can have these on it.] I use the LPp to hold a list of currently attached removable disks, so's I can easily mount and unmount them.)
but I have little hope that [KDE 4.3] will reach the 3.5 standard...
The 3.5 standard was reached after two major revisions. That's (depending on how you count it) five to eight years worth of effort. KDE 4 has been around for... almost a year and a half now? I know that this is the age of VB.NET and all, but software development hasn't gotten all that much faster. Give KDE 4 some more time. (And be sure to continue to complain when irreplaceable features go missing.)
amarok [latest] for example just doesnt run (at least on my set up) on 3.5.
Interesting. I have yet to come across a KDE 4 app that won't run under another WM. Does Amarok2 run under KDE 4 on the same machine?
Do you know if they fixed the Desktop "icon" delete bug?
When using the Folder View desktop Activity on KDE 4.2.1, it seems that your issue has been fixed. Copying a .desktop file (or any other file for that matter) resulted in a new file appearing in the Folder View Activity. Removing a file (.desktop or otherwise) from the FV Activity resulted in its deletion from ~/Desktop.
I'd hate to call them icons since they at the time were not, I'm not sure what they were!
How do you mean?
I was always wondering what's the point of icons on desktop.
I don't have more than a couple of icons on my machines at home. :)
However, at work (on the Windows machine), I have many icons on my desktop that I use to access frequently used programs and projects. If Windows shipped with a CLI shell that was worth a shit, (or Cygwin wasn't so rather slow) I would have very few icons on my work desktop.
...most of the time desktop is covered with opened windows so you cannot access the icons without closing or minimizing windows
You need to use multiple desktops, my man. They're even supported by official tools from ATI and nVidia.
Good to see KDE 4 got rid of them :)
KDE 4 didn't get rid of them. KDE 4 lets you *choose* to get rid of them. :)
that ISN'T what i want as a user. i want ONE fucking taskbar spanning both monitors.
Why? What information is on this taskbar?
...and "Folder View" is not the same as icons ON the desktop.
How, exactly? What's missing from the Folder View Activity?
That is - with KDE 4.1. I was wondering if this has been fixed for KDE 4.2
In all likelyhood, yes. A *LOT* has changed since KDE 4.1. If you still want to work with KDE, you *really* might wanna consider trying to get a copy of KDE 4.2 or (when it's released) KDE 4.3.
...the key bindings don't support a number of the keys that work with 3.5.x.
Examples?
*sigh* I see that you're all over the alterslashed comment threads.
So, lemmy counter with this:
The SFLC is on the case. There's nothing to be concerned about.
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/mar/30/settled-not-over-yet/
TomTom has, by agreeing to this settlement, publicly declared that they believe that the FAT patents are valid.
Perhaps. OTOH, maybe they're saying "It would cost less to pay you off and remove the code that you're whining about from our product than it would to challenge your patents in court. We'd rather save money ATM kthx."