Miniluv, they're silent on the point! The pronouns section does give examples in which "who" is used to refer to people, and I can't find any examples that use "that" to refer to people, but I can't find an explicit direction. That's why we call on S&W to a lesser degree than Chicago: it's nowhere near as specific or prescriptive (two factors that, when you're not a native AmE speaker, are much appreciated!).
cerberusss, thanks for the encouragement:) Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure I've seen the grammar nazi around here before...
Georgina
Hey Michael, As the language editor on this SitePoint title, I'm ecstatic to read how much you enjoyed The PHP Anthology, Second Edition, and to note the great rating you gave it!
I noticed that you made an interesting point about the that v. who confusion, and, being an editor (and therefore by necessity also being, though not always correct, a big, fat stickler), I turned to my style guide for clarification. Here at SitePoint, we rely on two AmE style manuals: The Chicago Manual of Style, and, to a lesser degree, The Elements of Style by the venerable Strunk & White.
According to Chicago,
Although "who" refers only to a person... it can be used in the first, second, or third person. "That" refers to a person, animal, or thing, and can be used in the first, second, or third person.
Thus Chicago indicates that these two usages are equally correct:
The PHP coders who heard the news raced to their own copies of Chicago to double-check the fact. The PHP coders that heard the news raced to their own copies of Chicago to double-check the fact.
I know this is of small note, but I thought I'd mention it all the same (after all, it's not often that us lowly language editors have anything relevant to post to Slashdot!).
Thanks again for this detailed review of the title, Georgina Editor www.sitepoint.com
Slashdot Mirror
Miniluv, they're silent on the point! The pronouns section does give examples in which "who" is used to refer to people, and I can't find any examples that use "that" to refer to people, but I can't find an explicit direction. That's why we call on S&W to a lesser degree than Chicago: it's nowhere near as specific or prescriptive (two factors that, when you're not a native AmE speaker, are much appreciated!). cerberusss, thanks for the encouragement :) Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure I've seen the grammar nazi around here before...
Georgina
Hey Michael,
As the language editor on this SitePoint title, I'm ecstatic to read how much you enjoyed The PHP Anthology, Second Edition, and to note the great rating you gave it!
I noticed that you made an interesting point about the that v. who confusion, and, being an editor (and therefore by necessity also being, though not always correct, a big, fat stickler), I turned to my style guide for clarification. Here at SitePoint, we rely on two AmE style manuals: The Chicago Manual of Style, and, to a lesser degree, The Elements of Style by the venerable Strunk & White.
According to Chicago,
Although "who" refers only to a person... it can be used in the first, second, or third person.
"That" refers to a person, animal, or thing, and can be used in the first, second, or third person.
Thus Chicago indicates that these two usages are equally correct:
The PHP coders who heard the news raced to their own copies of Chicago to double-check the fact.
The PHP coders that heard the news raced to their own copies of Chicago to double-check the fact.
I know this is of small note, but I thought I'd mention it all the same (after all, it's not often that us lowly language editors have anything relevant to post to Slashdot!).
Thanks again for this detailed review of the title,
Georgina
Editor
www.sitepoint.com