No, I'm pretty sure that msbuild works absolutely nothing like autotools does. Autotools requires the following steps if memory serves:
Write config.ac in its specific scripting language using 2 or more sets of expansion macros the AC, AM, and AUTOHEADER stuff
Write Makefile.am using a different syntax that sort of looks like a normal makefile but not really.
run autoconf
run automake
run configure
And the so called "blinders" that you can get out of the IDE's don't seem to actually work. My favorite was that for a really long time after KDE was coming out and the recommended build system was cmake, KDevelop didn't actually support cmake. My other experience with an old version of Anjuta could be summed up with, "Here! We're an awesome IDE with support for autotools. Instead of typing arcane expansion macros directly into a text file, type them into this oddly named dialog box instead." In all fairness, I haven't tried anjuta in a while.
On the other hand, msbuild takes a single xml file and runs the appropriate tools. I don't have to remember the obscure syntax to add header defines if I don't want to, I just have to add -D, -I, or -l options in a box. Granted the whole linking to.lib instead of the actually.dll is a little wierd
Each system has its own set of hoops to jump through. I posit that you think glibc is so much better because it is what you are used to. Keeping that in mind, lets think about it. Which function do you think is better self documenting. CreateProcess or fork. Or the other things that spring to mind like symlink vs CreateSymbolicLink (yes newer NTs supports symlinks).
As a "hobbiest" developer working on a cs degree, my personal experience is that windows is infinitely easier to develop for. It removes the need for me to understand 3 or 4 different arcane scripting languages that get together and have a preprocessor orgy with themselves in order to output makefiles. This has been my experience with autotools, scons, and cmake (cmake wasn't too bad on the whole). On the other hand, I was able to get a standard copy of VS 2008 from my university's campus connections and I can configure building things much easier. That and WPF is a nifty gui toolkit. I found myself able to hand write the gui description files after about 1/2 an hour of tinkering. Something I never could have done with glade or qt's ui files.
For those of us who like to tinker on little projcts on our own, if we can hardly set up a build system, and the docmentation for said build system is horrible, whats the point (I'm looking at you autobook).
That being said, I am curious what you do consider to be the most developer friendly system, particularly if you have experience in industry.
I think the system can work, but I consider Obama to be just a bunch of talking points and contradictory statements. For instance, I have heard in his speeches that he doesn't want a big government. Theoretically, this isn't true based on the fact he is a democrat, but he has said it from time to time. Yet, on the other hand, he has enlarged the federal deficit more with a single bill (the stimulus) more than Bush did in 3 years. Furthermore, the government no owns a majority of a major company (GM) and has the power to fire the CEO of the largest corporation (AIG). Granted AIG's CEO needed to go anyway, but I don't like the precedent that this sets.
Then, we have the fact that for a while there, I saw Obama on TV almost every day talking about his plans. I understand that it is important for him to express what he is doing to the American public, but to me it seemed almost as if he missed the fact that he was elected and was still on the campaign trail.
I don't know how familiar you are with American politics in general, but towards the end of his term, Bush had almost no political capital with which to get anything done. The Gitmo point is just pathetic though, because Obama came in with a tremendous amount of political capital because he is t3h awesomz0r, yet he couldn't get an overwhelmingly democratic congress which basically road his coattails into office to approve spending for him to close Gitmo, one of his primary talking points.
I'd love for him to succeed, because then we wouldn't be in this mess anymore and I can stop thinking about it whenever politics comes up (ahh how relaxing that would be). But I can't help feeling like we elected a smooth talker, and while the system can work, its annoying how in the last 3 elections the most qualified candidates (in my mind) got filtered out during the primaries.
Oh, thats silly. Its great, it means website video content can be transcoded in 2 formats and have a fallback flash or silverlight implementation. Awesomeness. I wonder if it would be possible for the video implementation of Firefox to use DirectShow on Windows, Quicktime on Mac, and Gstreamer on Linux. That way, there wouldn't be any need to deal with those stupid video player plug-ins that never seem to work properly anyway and adding support for new formats is as simple as installing a new native decoder package.
You do realize the rest of the world is still laughing at us right? For instance, he has managed to insult our closest ally. Not only that, but he can't decide what his policies will be. Sure, he's going to oppose sending troops to Iraq, only then to decide that he should send troops to Afghanistan instead. Oh, and he can't actually decide if he wants to close Gitmo or not. This man is just as much a bumbling fool as Bush was, but then again, "we" elected someone who hasn't ever served a full term of office at the federal level before. I don't know what "we" expected.
Actually, I think the DE developers have learned that to assume makes an ass out of you and me. Sure, ext4 broke the established behavior for most filesystems, but the fact it follows specification means that someone was making unwarranted assumptions about file system performance. Its now the DE's fault that they can't fix it without destroying performance with an i/o bound bottleneck required to make sure that they actually save their data.
Maybe this is a sign that millions of plain text configuration files aren't always the best idea when something like.kde can be as large as 150 mb, and all the DEs need to give some thought to optimizing their config storage so that it is both fast and robust in the face of quirky file systems.
My assumption is that since the symbolic links aren't really "native" features, they may get automatically translated with the normal reading functions would be my guess.
Why exactly is it a legitimate complaint to whine about how Windows doesn't support posix functions when it isn't a posix system. If you really want posix on windows, use one of the add-ons like Cygwin or Services for Unix Apps. Oh, and point of fact, NTFS has supported symlinks for some time now. They can be created programmatically with the CreateSymbolicLink function.
Meh, it just goes to show how far Aaron Seigo's madness has spread. It boggles my mind that you would consider releasing a.0 release yet still recommend that users use the previous vesion. I can get releasing a.0 release that may have a couple of regressions, but I would think that on balance, you would have released something that is better and users would want to use. But no, apparently its better to just release something 3/4ths finished, then have furious 6 month release cycles for 1 - 2 years all the while the "Ooooooh! Shiney! New!" crowd bitches at you across the interwebs about how the new version is garbage. KDE/Amarok/KOffice devs must secretely be e-masochists.
What is this complaint about bloat. It absolutely boggles my mind. I have a 12" laptop that packs 180GB harddrive. Said "Bloat" for me, even assuming numbers are correct would be on the order of 1/10% of my harddisk capacity. I mean honestly!
I think I was unclear. By run, I mean run well. I've seen XP run on 128 MB of RAM and it was a painful experience. An old pentium 2 machine that theoretically met the minimum specs and started life with Windows 95. Sure, it'll work, but its not terribly useful for anything when it starts swapping the second time you open a program.
My experience is that Vista will hum nicely with 1GB, it may indeed be tolerable with less RAM, I just don't know.
Your setup just seems weird to me though. If I had to make a comparison to a linux system I would say that you have created an account named root2 in the administrator (or wheel is it still called) and configured sudo to not require passwords to elevate. Then you do all your work with the oter account.
I was actually aware of the fact you have to type in Administrator credentials for limited accounts, but it just seemed so foolish to have 2 accounts when the administrative account really does run with limited credentials until it needs admin ones. [1] Since I could have the exact same effect, why bother with two accounts.
WorksForMe. I have a laptop with Intel 945GM and it works with Aero. Every once in a while I will get some tearing when I have lots of windows open and I try to to window flip, but its actually not bad. YMMV.
Because some of us need 32-bit emulation. WoW64 or whatever it is called works flawlessly out of the box. I assume you were making a snide comment about how some FLOSS operating system/userland is superior. Lets see you run 10 year old 32-bit applications out of box with no tinkering on your fabulous 64-bit system.
You don't need a "great computer" to run the Vista, you just need a lot of RAM. And by a lot, I mean 1GB, which, by todays standards isn't that much. I'm pretty sure the rest of the RAM usage is just caching or other behind the scenes cleverness. I've run Vista side by side on a 1GB machine a 4GB machine (RAM) and with only 1GB to use, only ~600MB are used, while on the 4GB machine, ~1.8G are used.
I concur that UAC is great. Furthermore, I was able to find the group policy setting that forces you to authenticate instead of merely confirm every action.
As for Firefox auto-updates, that is firefox's fault. I've had goofiness when I hit cancel on the privilidge escalation dialog, but IMHO Firefox should be able to just continue working nomrally if it doesn't update.
It also occurred to me it might be hard for Skynet to just go about nuking everything in sight. I would assume Skynet itself is hardened, but I can't imagine the smaller robots standing up well to nuclear bombardment. That, and how much of the USA's nuclear ordinance was used in the first strike by Skynet? If it truly launched everything like I imagined, it may simply be prioritizing the weapons it builds. Nukes are kind of once and done and are overkill for a lot of engagements to say nothing of the fact they may depend on a good deal of vertically integrated production capacity that was just destroyed. On the other hand, those HKs appear to be pretty good at everything.
On a mostly unrelated sidenote, every time I hear Hunter-Killer I keep expecting a metallic Hydralisk to slither onscreen.
The Skynet signal jamming thing was a trick. Hence the fact that the Hunter-Killer just flew right to where the signal was being broadcast, ignoring it, to bomb the submarine.
Marcus shut down at least some of Skynet's defense systems when he interfaced with the computer. I remember seeing one of those great big sentries flashing on the screen with Deactivated.
Why wouldn't they have technology? It's in the future. Yes it looked like they had lots of technology, but nothing they had looked new or truly advanced. They were flying around in helicopters and a-10's (which are quite old I believe). On the other hand, Skynet's machines all just looked really hi-tech, particularly the motorcycles (although that may come from seeing from its pov when it was dodging debris).
However, to mount manipulators (hands, pincers) etc on a quadruped, you need an additional set of mount points. Given that there wasn't really anything the humans could do against the massive biped, whats the point. You save on parts because you don't need another pair of giant motors/actuators on which to mount manipulators and weapons.
Of course,.NET languages couldn't be real languages. Lets just ignore the fact that Singularity OS is written in C# save for the interrupt code.
Plenty of people didn't know what they were doing in C either, or did you forget about all those buffer overflows of days past?
What legacy OS would that be? Chrome doesn't work on anything older than XP SP2. Oh wait, you were making a snide comment about how Windows is inferior. Golly gee.
Slashdot Mirror
And the so called "blinders" that you can get out of the IDE's don't seem to actually work. My favorite was that for a really long time after KDE was coming out and the recommended build system was cmake, KDevelop didn't actually support cmake. My other experience with an old version of Anjuta could be summed up with, "Here! We're an awesome IDE with support for autotools. Instead of typing arcane expansion macros directly into a text file, type them into this oddly named dialog box instead." In all fairness, I haven't tried anjuta in a while. .lib instead of the actually .dll is a little wierd
On the other hand, msbuild takes a single xml file and runs the appropriate tools. I don't have to remember the obscure syntax to add header defines if I don't want to, I just have to add -D, -I, or -l options in a box. Granted the whole linking to
Each system has its own set of hoops to jump through. I posit that you think glibc is so much better because it is what you are used to. Keeping that in mind, lets think about it. Which function do you think is better self documenting. CreateProcess or fork. Or the other things that spring to mind like symlink vs CreateSymbolicLink (yes newer NTs supports symlinks).
As a "hobbiest" developer working on a cs degree, my personal experience is that windows is infinitely easier to develop for. It removes the need for me to understand 3 or 4 different arcane scripting languages that get together and have a preprocessor orgy with themselves in order to output makefiles. This has been my experience with autotools, scons, and cmake (cmake wasn't too bad on the whole). On the other hand, I was able to get a standard copy of VS 2008 from my university's campus connections and I can configure building things much easier. That and WPF is a nifty gui toolkit. I found myself able to hand write the gui description files after about 1/2 an hour of tinkering. Something I never could have done with glade or qt's ui files.
For those of us who like to tinker on little projcts on our own, if we can hardly set up a build system, and the docmentation for said build system is horrible, whats the point (I'm looking at you autobook).
That being said, I am curious what you do consider to be the most developer friendly system, particularly if you have experience in industry.
I think the system can work, but I consider Obama to be just a bunch of talking points and contradictory statements. For instance, I have heard in his speeches that he doesn't want a big government. Theoretically, this isn't true based on the fact he is a democrat, but he has said it from time to time. Yet, on the other hand, he has enlarged the federal deficit more with a single bill (the stimulus) more than Bush did in 3 years. Furthermore, the government no owns a majority of a major company (GM) and has the power to fire the CEO of the largest corporation (AIG). Granted AIG's CEO needed to go anyway, but I don't like the precedent that this sets.
Then, we have the fact that for a while there, I saw Obama on TV almost every day talking about his plans. I understand that it is important for him to express what he is doing to the American public, but to me it seemed almost as if he missed the fact that he was elected and was still on the campaign trail.
I don't know how familiar you are with American politics in general, but towards the end of his term, Bush had almost no political capital with which to get anything done. The Gitmo point is just pathetic though, because Obama came in with a tremendous amount of political capital because he is t3h awesomz0r, yet he couldn't get an overwhelmingly democratic congress which basically road his coattails into office to approve spending for him to close Gitmo, one of his primary talking points.
I'd love for him to succeed, because then we wouldn't be in this mess anymore and I can stop thinking about it whenever politics comes up (ahh how relaxing that would be). But I can't help feeling like we elected a smooth talker, and while the system can work, its annoying how in the last 3 elections the most qualified candidates (in my mind) got filtered out during the primaries.
I was being facetious. Apologies for forgetting my sarcasm tags.
Oh, thats silly. Its great, it means website video content can be transcoded in 2 formats and have a fallback flash or silverlight implementation. Awesomeness. I wonder if it would be possible for the video implementation of Firefox to use DirectShow on Windows, Quicktime on Mac, and Gstreamer on Linux. That way, there wouldn't be any need to deal with those stupid video player plug-ins that never seem to work properly anyway and adding support for new formats is as simple as installing a new native decoder package.
You do realize the rest of the world is still laughing at us right? For instance, he has managed to insult our closest ally. Not only that, but he can't decide what his policies will be. Sure, he's going to oppose sending troops to Iraq, only then to decide that he should send troops to Afghanistan instead. Oh, and he can't actually decide if he wants to close Gitmo or not. This man is just as much a bumbling fool as Bush was, but then again, "we" elected someone who hasn't ever served a full term of office at the federal level before. I don't know what "we" expected.
And here I would put it the other way as
~trusted -> broken
After all, what good is a file system everyone is afraid to use.
Actually, I think the DE developers have learned that to assume makes an ass out of you and me. Sure, ext4 broke the established behavior for most filesystems, but the fact it follows specification means that someone was making unwarranted assumptions about file system performance. Its now the DE's fault that they can't fix it without destroying performance with an i/o bound bottleneck required to make sure that they actually save their data. .kde can be as large as 150 mb, and all the DEs need to give some thought to optimizing their config storage so that it is both fast and robust in the face of quirky file systems.
Maybe this is a sign that millions of plain text configuration files aren't always the best idea when something like
My assumption is that since the symbolic links aren't really "native" features, they may get automatically translated with the normal reading functions would be my guess.
Why exactly is it a legitimate complaint to whine about how Windows doesn't support posix functions when it isn't a posix system. If you really want posix on windows, use one of the add-ons like Cygwin or Services for Unix Apps. Oh, and point of fact, NTFS has supported symlinks for some time now. They can be created programmatically with the CreateSymbolicLink function.
Meh, it just goes to show how far Aaron Seigo's madness has spread. It boggles my mind that you would consider releasing a .0 release yet still recommend that users use the previous vesion. I can get releasing a .0 release that may have a couple of regressions, but I would think that on balance, you would have released something that is better and users would want to use. But no, apparently its better to just release something 3/4ths finished, then have furious 6 month release cycles for 1 - 2 years all the while the "Ooooooh! Shiney! New!" crowd bitches at you across the interwebs about how the new version is garbage. KDE/Amarok/KOffice devs must secretely be e-masochists.
What is this complaint about bloat. It absolutely boggles my mind. I have a 12" laptop that packs 180GB harddrive. Said "Bloat" for me, even assuming numbers are correct would be on the order of 1/10% of my harddisk capacity. I mean honestly!
I think I was unclear. By run, I mean run well. I've seen XP run on 128 MB of RAM and it was a painful experience. An old pentium 2 machine that theoretically met the minimum specs and started life with Windows 95. Sure, it'll work, but its not terribly useful for anything when it starts swapping the second time you open a program.
My experience is that Vista will hum nicely with 1GB, it may indeed be tolerable with less RAM, I just don't know.
Your setup just seems weird to me though. If I had to make a comparison to a linux system I would say that you have created an account named root2 in the administrator (or wheel is it still called) and configured sudo to not require passwords to elevate. Then you do all your work with the oter account.
I was actually aware of the fact you have to type in Administrator credentials for limited accounts, but it just seemed so foolish to have 2 accounts when the administrative account really does run with limited credentials until it needs admin ones. [1] Since I could have the exact same effect, why bother with two accounts.
Remember mods, [DisagreeWithOpinion -ne Troll]
WorksForMe. I have a laptop with Intel 945GM and it works with Aero. Every once in a while I will get some tearing when I have lots of windows open and I try to to window flip, but its actually not bad. YMMV.
Because some of us need 32-bit emulation. WoW64 or whatever it is called works flawlessly out of the box. I assume you were making a snide comment about how some FLOSS operating system/userland is superior. Lets see you run 10 year old 32-bit applications out of box with no tinkering on your fabulous 64-bit system.
You don't need a "great computer" to run the Vista, you just need a lot of RAM. And by a lot, I mean 1GB, which, by todays standards isn't that much. I'm pretty sure the rest of the RAM usage is just caching or other behind the scenes cleverness. I've run Vista side by side on a 1GB machine a 4GB machine (RAM) and with only 1GB to use, only ~600MB are used, while on the 4GB machine, ~1.8G are used.
I concur that UAC is great. Furthermore, I was able to find the group policy setting that forces you to authenticate instead of merely confirm every action.
As for Firefox auto-updates, that is firefox's fault. I've had goofiness when I hit cancel on the privilidge escalation dialog, but IMHO Firefox should be able to just continue working nomrally if it doesn't update.
It also occurred to me it might be hard for Skynet to just go about nuking everything in sight. I would assume Skynet itself is hardened, but I can't imagine the smaller robots standing up well to nuclear bombardment. That, and how much of the USA's nuclear ordinance was used in the first strike by Skynet? If it truly launched everything like I imagined, it may simply be prioritizing the weapons it builds. Nukes are kind of once and done and are overkill for a lot of engagements to say nothing of the fact they may depend on a good deal of vertically integrated production capacity that was just destroyed. On the other hand, those HKs appear to be pretty good at everything.
On a mostly unrelated sidenote, every time I hear Hunter-Killer I keep expecting a metallic Hydralisk to slither onscreen.
The Skynet signal jamming thing was a trick. Hence the fact that the Hunter-Killer just flew right to where the signal was being broadcast, ignoring it, to bomb the submarine.
Marcus shut down at least some of Skynet's defense systems when he interfaced with the computer. I remember seeing one of those great big sentries flashing on the screen with Deactivated.
Why wouldn't they have technology? It's in the future. Yes it looked like they had lots of technology, but nothing they had looked new or truly advanced. They were flying around in helicopters and a-10's (which are quite old I believe). On the other hand, Skynet's machines all just looked really hi-tech, particularly the motorcycles (although that may come from seeing from its pov when it was dodging debris).
However, to mount manipulators (hands, pincers) etc on a quadruped, you need an additional set of mount points. Given that there wasn't really anything the humans could do against the massive biped, whats the point. You save on parts because you don't need another pair of giant motors/actuators on which to mount manipulators and weapons.
Of course, .NET languages couldn't be real languages. Lets just ignore the fact that Singularity OS is written in C# save for the interrupt code.
Plenty of people didn't know what they were doing in C either, or did you forget about all those buffer overflows of days past?
What legacy OS would that be? Chrome doesn't work on anything older than XP SP2. Oh wait, you were making a snide comment about how Windows is inferior. Golly gee.