Surely we do not have everything in Zope, but many things are not there, because people jsut did not need it. Just because 1-2 people ask for SOAP does not mean it is a widely needed protocol. Here are some comments:
- transactional control: We have this.
- Object relational layer: There are several Zope 2 solutions for this and for Zope X3 there is the really cool sqlos framework (http://codespeak.net/z3/sqlos/).
- SOAP: People request it, but noone has needed it badly enough to write an implementation.
- Cross Container communications: I have no clue what you are talking about.
Of course, your punt here is that "XML compatible" is ill-defined or simply does not make sense. But I am still going to write a couple lines about how Zope X3 utiliizes XML:
1. We have an XML-RPC server. This is a no-brainer.:-)
2. The way you configure Zope X3 components is done via an XML-dialect known as ZCML.
3. There have been protoypes to express interfaces (in the sense Java uses the term) using XML schemas.
4. In Zope 2 there is an XML document, whose attributes can be accessed via DOM.
5. There are discussions on integrating XPath and XSLT into Zope.
6. I personally have tinkered with the idea to use Qt.ui files (which is an XML format) to generate Web-based forms.
In general it is up to you how many XML technologies you want to use.
> I'm not even going to attempt to translate > that bit into real English (you know, instead > of buzzword-speak), but at least *try* to > describe what the software does, guys...
As the author of the release text, I have to say the following in my defense:
I agree with you that this is not a very technical description. However, the press release went to many different sources, some of which are only read by decision makers. Thus I had to find the right balance between all parties. Further, I think that the zope.org site tries really hard to explain what Zope is all about, if you take the time to read it; I must also say that if you do not know what a Web Application Server is, then it will take a while to explain the purpose of Zope; it just cannot be done in 5-7 lines.
Please feel free to ask me or the zope3-dev@zope.org mailing list for technical details on Zope X3.
Zope X3 will become Zope 3. The reason it is currently not called Zope 3 is because we have no answer for people migrating their sites from Zope 2 to the new code base. However, Zope X3 is very usable and you should use it, if you develop a new application. Also note that there is the Five project (http://codespeak.net/z3/five/) that allows you to run Zope X3 inside Zope 2. Thia has become a favorite choice for many existing Zope developers already, which have a large code base in Zope 2.
As a MA resident and one of the developers of the upcoming Zope 3 release, I was very positively surprised to see Zope (Z Object Publishing Environment) on the list of supported projects. I know that Zope has been used by the government for a long time, but that it is being embraced in this way is even better!
I just started writing a book under the Open Publication License. I just hope the publisher will let me change that. I think the worst problem with the shutdown is that I am not offered a migration path, like "The OPL is compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution License." or something like that.
I gave the license a quick scan and it seems very nice and Creative Commons makes a point of not being an involved party, something I find annoying in some other licenses.
I have been involved a little bit with the OSCOM efforts and I am impressed again and again on how they all work together. The board members of this organization are leaders from various OS Web Application servers, all having different interests and yet they can work together.
I only know Paul Everitt (one of the authors) personally, who is co-founder and used to be the CEO of Digital Creations (today Zope Corp.) - therefore one of the inventors of Zope (www.zope.org). He started the Twingle project a while ago, trying to generalize the Zope effort to create a content management Mozilla-GUI for Zope 3 to all Open Source CMS solutions.
As the article states this effort is quiet ambitious, but it also shows the power OS can have. When Paul and I started working on the original code, we used heavily XML-RPC (it is just the easiest to use for getting anything done), but Paul has since pushed towards HTTP standards, such as WebDAV. While this is much harder (i.e. I am writing a WebDAV library in JS for Mozilla) than the original approach, it allows a lot of integration possibilities later. For example, in the future we imagine that we will be able to drag and drop objects between Bitflux and Zope and vice versa for example. Also, a unified GUI will allow Content Designers to gain a skill that is much less platform-specific (in the meaning of App Server and Operating System), which makes this skill much more marketable.
BTW, OSCOM 3 will be held at Harvard University on May 15, 2003 if I remember right. So everyone interested in Web-related technologies living in Boston should drop by and check it out.
I first saw this news item from Karamba...
on
Eyes on Karamba
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I just installed Super-Karamba this morning and I am fiddeling right now around with the Slashdot theme to make it nicer looking on my screen.
Karamba is really cool! I downloaded SuperKaramba due to its Python support and I plan to write some plugins for receiving automatically Mailing list notifications. Should be trivial as far as I can tell.
I think something like this was overdue for a long time and it rivals the Active Desktop from MS Windows.
Similar Stephen King's model
on
Software For Ransom
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Stephan King uses this sort of model already for many years. He writes a book and publishes a chapter after a certain amount of money reaches a bank account. He has been very successful with it too.
It is interesting. I read the QT article last night (since KDE's site quoted it already) and me and my friend talked about the Network transparency. Maybe they will support that. The article does not mention it. My personal opinion is that for most users at home network transparency is not a big deal, since most users will only use the standard office stuff and a web browser. Remember, the goal is to bring Linux to the Desktop! Furthermore, I love the idea that Qt will bypass X. X is big and ugly (and a horror to code in). If the X standard does not wake up and include antialiasing and alpha-channeling, then someone must come up with a solution. The market asks for it, so someone supplies it. And that a commercial company is behind all of that, is actually good, since it will be better supported. Anyway, this comment I reply to was the first sane idea I read, other than "This is dumb" or "That's fucked up!" People, we should communicate smarter than that. Regards, Stephan
Check out ZDP (Zope Documentation Project)
on
GPL for Books?
·
· Score: 1
We at the Zope documentation project use Open Licenses to publish our docs. Just send ZDP an e-mail and they will reply to you with some ideas. Especially Martjin Faassen researched several different licenses.
There is also a Open Writers Group (they are about 80 people) which offer to help Open Content License projects to write and review text. Unfortunately I forgot their contacts, but I am sure you can find them on the net.
First of all I want to say that I think that except of da Vinci, most of the replies thought about people from the last 300 years and not the last 1000 years. Unfortunately is my knowledge about people from the earlier days very limited as well.
So here is my list whose order is irrelevant, since I think I forget a bunch in anyway and I superbias and lean to know more physicians and chemists.
Albert Einstein (We all know why and this discussion lists most of the reasons.)
Leonardo da Vinci (I agree with most of you there.)
James Maxwell (Maxwell's Equations are just awesome.)
Isaac Newton (Even with SR and Quantum Mechanics F=ma is still one of the most used formulas.)
Marie Curie (her currage in a men-dominated world is exeptional.)
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (I did not see him on the list, but he was a multitalent in everything including literature [Faust], science and art - similar to da Vinci)
Nicolaus Copernicus (he revolutionized astronomy with his ideas and his great book [I forgot the exact title] on the order of the universe. It was a hard decision between hime and Keppler.
Mendelejev (I missed hime on the list as well. I think he started what we call today the modern chemistry.)
Linus Travolds (again, the decision was very difficult, since there are soo many great souls in the Open Software community.)
Schrödinger (shoot, I forgot his first name. But with his equation and the uncertainty principle form Heisenberg Quantum Mechanics was born with the Kopenhagen confernece. Today these decisions made at this confernece by the leading physicians of the time are known as the Kopenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, which is indeed what we used the last 60-70 years.)
I am certain I have forgotten many great people, but these are some which made definately a great difference in science and therefore our lifestyle today.
I got a couple of Srac 2's really cheap. Since Solaris is crawling them, I put RedHat 6.0 on them it works great.
It is lot of fun to see a that Linux simulates a black backgound with a small lightgray font (Sun's hardware has a white background with black text be default).
Well, I think if this is really true, many other things will not work out anymore. There is for example the Special and General Relativity which prohibit such phenomena. There are also Black Holes. How do you make the difference between a Black Hole and "Dark Matter"? So how do yo explain the twin or grandfather paradox?
I think this theory brings up alot more issues then it solves and disproves more then it proves. I would take this discovery with a grain of caution.
Slashdot Mirror
Surely we do not have everything in Zope, but many things are not there, because people jsut did not need it. Just because 1-2 people ask for SOAP does not mean it is a widely needed protocol. Here are some comments:
- transactional control: We have this.
- Object relational layer: There are several Zope 2 solutions for this and for Zope X3 there is the really cool sqlos framework (http://codespeak.net/z3/sqlos/).
- SOAP: People request it, but noone has needed it badly enough to write an implementation.
- Cross Container communications: I have no clue what you are talking about.
I hope that helps.
Of course, your punt here is that "XML compatible" is ill-defined or simply does not make sense. But I am still going to write a couple lines about how Zope X3 utiliizes XML:
:-)
.ui files (which is an XML format) to generate Web-based forms.
1. We have an XML-RPC server. This is a no-brainer.
2. The way you configure Zope X3 components is done via an XML-dialect known as ZCML.
3. There have been protoypes to express interfaces (in the sense Java uses the term) using XML schemas.
4. In Zope 2 there is an XML document, whose attributes can be accessed via DOM.
5. There are discussions on integrating XPath and XSLT into Zope.
6. I personally have tinkered with the idea to use Qt
In general it is up to you how many XML technologies you want to use.
> I'm not even going to attempt to translate
> that bit into real English (you know, instead
> of buzzword-speak), but at least *try* to
> describe what the software does, guys...
As the author of the release text, I have to say the following in my defense:
I agree with you that this is not a very technical description. However, the press release went to many different sources, some of which are only read by decision makers. Thus I had to find the right balance between all parties. Further, I think that the zope.org site tries really hard to explain what Zope is all about, if you take the time to read it; I must also say that if you do not know what a Web Application Server is, then it will take a while to explain the purpose of Zope; it just cannot be done in 5-7 lines.
Please feel free to ask me or the zope3-dev@zope.org mailing list for technical details on Zope X3.
Zope X3 will become Zope 3. The reason it is currently not called Zope 3 is because we have no answer for people migrating their sites from Zope 2 to the new code base. However, Zope X3 is very usable and you should use it, if you develop a new application. Also note that there is the Five project (http://codespeak.net/z3/five/) that allows you to run Zope X3 inside Zope 2. Thia has become a favorite choice for many existing Zope developers already, which have a large code base in Zope 2.
As a MA resident and one of the developers of the upcoming Zope 3 release, I was very positively surprised to see Zope (Z Object Publishing Environment) on the list of supported projects. I know that Zope has been used by the government for a long time, but that it is being embraced in this way is even better!
Go MA and Peter Quinn!
I just started writing a book under the Open Publication License. I just hope the publisher will let me change that. I think the worst problem with the shutdown is that I am not offered a migration path, like "The OPL is compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution License." or something like that.
I gave the license a quick scan and it seems very nice and Creative Commons makes a point of not being an involved party, something I find annoying in some other licenses.
I have been involved a little bit with the OSCOM efforts and I am impressed again and again on how they all work together. The board members of this organization are leaders from various OS Web Application servers, all having different interests and yet they can work together.
I only know Paul Everitt (one of the authors) personally, who is co-founder and used to be the CEO of Digital Creations (today Zope Corp.) - therefore one of the inventors of Zope (www.zope.org). He started the Twingle project a while ago, trying to generalize the Zope effort to create a content management Mozilla-GUI for Zope 3 to all Open Source CMS solutions.
As the article states this effort is quiet ambitious, but it also shows the power OS can have. When Paul and I started working on the original code, we used heavily XML-RPC (it is just the easiest to use for getting anything done), but Paul has since pushed towards HTTP standards, such as WebDAV. While this is much harder (i.e. I am writing a WebDAV library in JS for Mozilla) than the original approach, it allows a lot of integration possibilities later. For example, in the future we imagine that we will be able to drag and drop objects between Bitflux and Zope and vice versa for example. Also, a unified GUI will allow Content Designers to gain a skill that is much less platform-specific (in the meaning of App Server and Operating System), which makes this skill much more marketable.
BTW, OSCOM 3 will be held at Harvard University on May 15, 2003 if I remember right. So everyone interested in Web-related technologies living in Boston should drop by and check it out.
I just installed Super-Karamba this morning and I am fiddeling right now around with the Slashdot theme to make it nicer looking on my screen.
Karamba is really cool! I downloaded SuperKaramba due to its Python support and I plan to write some plugins for receiving automatically Mailing list notifications. Should be trivial as far as I can tell.
I think something like this was overdue for a long time and it rivals the Active Desktop from MS Windows.
Stephan King uses this sort of model already for many years. He writes a book and publishes a chapter after a certain amount of money reaches a bank account. He has been very successful with it too.
It is interesting. I read the QT article last night (since KDE's site quoted it already) and me and my friend talked about the Network transparency. Maybe they will support that. The article does not mention it. My personal opinion is that for most users at home network transparency is not a big deal, since most users will only use the standard office stuff and a web browser. Remember, the goal is to bring Linux to the Desktop! Furthermore, I love the idea that Qt will bypass X. X is big and ugly (and a horror to code in). If the X standard does not wake up and include antialiasing and alpha-channeling, then someone must come up with a solution. The market asks for it, so someone supplies it. And that a commercial company is behind all of that, is actually good, since it will be better supported. Anyway, this comment I reply to was the first sane idea I read, other than "This is dumb" or "That's fucked up!" People, we should communicate smarter than that. Regards, Stephan
We at the Zope documentation project use Open Licenses to publish our docs. Just send ZDP an e-mail and they will reply to you with some ideas. Especially Martjin Faassen researched several different licenses.
There is also a Open Writers Group (they are about 80 people) which offer to help Open Content License projects to write and review text. Unfortunately I forgot their contacts, but I am sure you can find them on the net.
Much luck with your project!
StephanFirst of all I want to say that I think that except of da Vinci, most of the replies thought about people from the last 300 years and not the last 1000 years. Unfortunately is my knowledge about people from the earlier days very limited as well.
So here is my list whose order is irrelevant, since I think I forget a bunch in anyway and I superbias and lean to know more physicians and chemists.
I am certain I have forgotten many great people, but these are some which made definately a great difference in science and therefore our lifestyle today.
I got a couple of Srac 2's really cheap. Since Solaris is crawling them, I put RedHat 6.0 on them it works great.
It is lot of fun to see a that Linux simulates a black backgound with a small lightgray font (Sun's hardware has a white background with black text be default).
Well, I think if this is really true, many other things will not work out anymore. There is for example the Special and General Relativity which prohibit such phenomena. There are also Black Holes. How do you make the difference between a Black Hole and "Dark Matter"? So how do yo explain the twin or grandfather paradox?
I think this theory brings up alot more issues then it solves and disproves more then it proves. I would take this discovery with a grain of caution.
Stephan